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After5
09-25-06, 13:56
Hi,

In planning ahead for a move to BA next year, I'm seeking advice from US expats in BA as to how they maintain their US bank accounts.

Under the USA Patriot Act, a physical address has become essential for customers of financial institutions (banks and brokerages) But if I sell my house before leaving for BA, I lose my permanent US physical address. Then what?

Maybe I can change the address on the accounts to that of a nearby friend or relative. Of course, the new address wouldn't match up with credit reports. I don't know whether that's a problem with an existing account or not. Alternatively, perhaps I could find a bank which is used to working with expats and would hold or forward statements.

My concern is to hold on to US bank accounts and credit cards that I have now, even after leaving my US physical address behind. And especially, to avoid costly trips back to the US to iron out any problems that develop. Just in the past few years, numerous instances have arisen which required me to personally visit the bank -- such to activate a new ATM card, when it is reissued every 3 years.

Will appreciate any suggestions that others can offer. Thanks.

El Perro
09-25-06, 14:05
After5,

1. Get a mailbox service like:

http://www.usabox.com/

This provides you with a USA address and they can route your mail to you in BA. This is what I use and has been a huge help. $35 a month.

2. An expat friendly bank is :

https://www.usaa.com/inet/ent_logon/Logon

USAA Federal Savings Bank out of San Antonio. They serve mostly military families but anyone can use their banking services.

Hope this helps,

Dogg

=========================================

Hi Dogg,

On your earlier suggestion, I tried to open an account at USAA and was advised that I didn't qualify because neither myself nor anyone in my family was in active service.

I answered the questions on the website interface, including responding affirmatively that both of my parents were retired Navy and providing the names therein, all to no avail. As I recall, the requirement was that to qualify as a family member of active or retired military personnel, said active or retired military personnel had to have an account at USAA.

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone else in my situation was able to open an account at USAA.

Thanks,

Jackson

After5
09-25-06, 14:21
Many thanks for the recommendations, Doggboy. According to the FAQ at usabox, your address as a customer looks like this:

Your Name.

8345 NW 66TH ST #[Your PMB]

MIAMI FL 33166

In detail, are the characters in the brackets just a number (e. G. #1342) or do they include "PMB" (e. G. #PMB-1342)

My understanding is that postal regs require private mailboxes to be identified as PMBs. Maybe not a problem, but it's a giveaway to anyone who looks closely that it's not a residence address.

=========================================

Hi After5,

I've been using usabox.com for several months now and I'm very pleased with the service. Usabox is a mail drop, mail sorting and mail forwarding service. It is NOT a private Mail Box, there is no mailbox, and thus you do not have an address with the PMB.

Their service is also nice in that they scan your mail as it arrives and you can log into their webiste and view you mail, deciding what to forward and what to throw in the trash can. Additionally, they will forward your mail to you at your request or on a regular basis via DHL or similar service, to a regular forwarding address you've setup or to any other address you may indicate.

Thanks,

Jackson

Lexton
09-25-06, 16:41
I hate to disagree here, but this is what I have found:

www.usabox.com is a Commercial Mail Receiving Agent, I am sure. This allows them to receive mail from the USPS on your behalf. The idea of the 'PMB' versus '#' is this: Apparently, postal regs require the use of 'PMB' to designate the number of a CMRA. They DO NOT allow the use of 'apt', 'ste', or 'ofc', for example. There was a long hard fight some years ago by some CMRA's to allow the use of simply '#' instead of 'PMB'. Thus, an address of 8345 NW 66TH ST PMB 1342 may also be written 8345 NW 66TH ST #1342. The reason for this request is that a PMB has a stigma attached for many businesses and government agencies, because it is not a domicile.

This whole issue is most important regarding the legality of the address for documents like a drivers license and other documents that cannot be forwarded and at times cannot be delivered to a CMRA. There may be a question as to the validity of the usabox service as a drivers license address, insurance address, or permanent residence address in Florida. There may also be issues regarding voting.

I asked about this issue of residence in the 'Resident Visas' thread. If you are NOT a permanent overseas resident, you must ask about whether this service may be legally used. You must then find out about establishing it as a legal residence. Just saying an address is a legal residence does not make it so, and the requirements can vary a little between states. If you do not change your residence in a LEGAL way, you remain a resident of the state where you were last a legal resident. This can have negative tax consequences.

I was asking about whether anyone knew of changes in US state residency requirements and this whole issue brought about by permanent residency overseas. I doubt it, but am not sure.

I am thinking of setting up residency in Nevada, and have looked into the issue some. It is not easy without the ongoing ACTIVE help of a resident. If anyone knows of something that changes that, I'm all ears.

Jackson, did you have the CMRA authorization form notarized in the US, or some other way, as in escribania?

==============================================

Hi Lexton,

I had it notarized at the US Embassy. However, because I took the time to make an appointment by email the day before, I was in and out in just a few minutes, as opposed to those who complained elsewhere on the forum about the embassy's notary process because they waited for two or more hours.

Thanks,

Jackson

Dickhead
09-25-06, 18:27
I have been looking into this also, Nevada or some state with no income tax. My motivation is the change in the capital gains taxation that starts in 2008. I found that you have to actively sever your connection with my particular state or they claim the right to tax you. There are a couple of relevant legal concepts, one being domicil and the other being nexis. I'm not a lawyer so you can check that out for yourself.

The default setting for ex-pats is that you remain a resident of your last state of residence until and unless you actively change it. This is a general concept and states have minor variations. I was hoping to establish residency in another state with no income tax without changing my mailing address (in other words, beginning to receive mail at a new address without filing a change of address with the post office) So far that appears to be possible. My motivation for that is not to fuck up my credit rating since I have allegedly lived for several years now in a really snobby neighborhood, plus just changing your address in general fucks up your credit.

I think if I go to Nevada / Texas / Washington / Alaska / South Dakota / Florida, rent a Motel 6 suites type place for a month (Dec. 2007 for example) get a driver's license, register to vote, get a library card, join the state professional society, and maybe even work for a few weeks, it will stick even if I don't file a COA with the post office. By the way, here is a tip. If you file a temporary forwarding order with the post office, and someone sends you a letter marked "address correction requested" an address correction will not be sent if (big if) the system is working correctly. Caveat: I once did that, and the letter carrier for my route changed it to a permanent forward without any ground or authority to do that (he did it because the house was vacant) and he got in trouble but it still defeated my purpose. The house I would be moving from would not be vacant but I fear if I file a temporary forward it could be used as "evidence of intent to return" which is another thing they look at.

Bottom line is there are a number of factors used to determine domicil and the more of them you meet in the state you want to be your residence, the better off you are.

Some things to think about: Most states have laws about notifying the motor vehicle bureau if you move. In fact in my state of current legal residence, in which I have not set foot in years, you only have 10 days to notify them or it is a misdemeanor (not a traffic offense) It could be that you would be running around with an invalid driver's license. Not sure you'd ever get caught.

I'm not sure my tax savings would justify doing all this shit but I won't know that until the end of next year.

After5
09-25-06, 19:10
I think if I go to Nevada / Texas / Washington / Alaska / South Dakota / Florida, rent a Motel 6 suites type place for a month (Dec. 2007 for example) get a driver's license, register to vote, get a library card, join the state professional society, and maybe even work for a few weeks, it will stick even if I don't file a COA with the post office.One thing to aware of, more states are now requiring "6 points of ID," and supposedly under the (federal) Real ID Act, they all will by 2008. Under this system, each ID document counts for either 1, 2, 3 or 4 points. For example, a US passport is 4 points (the most secure). But you also need some 1 or 2-point documents, such as a utility bill, bank account statement, credit card bill, etc., sent to your claimed address. And of course, to open a bank account now, you need a verifiable physical address (meaning in your credit report). P. O. Boxes aren't accepted anymore. So to some extent, the requirements have become circular. Without some weeks of time and hassle, it isn't as easy to "bootstrap" yourself from one document such as an out-of-state drivers license, as it used to be. They are intentionally throwing roadblocks in the way of this technique.

For info, here is the "6 points of ID" scheme in one state, New Jersey:

http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Licenses/6PointID.htm

The combination of the USA Patriot Act, the Real ID Act, and general security paranoia is creating a seamless "database state" in the US which is increasingly inflexible. I heard a horror story about a guy who opened a new brokerage account with $400K just after moving to a new address in California. They accepted his account registration and wire-transferred funds, then froze the account when they couldn't verify his new address with the credit bureau. He couldn't trade, and he couldn't get his money back.

That's why I want to establish viable banking and mail arrangements before leaving the US. Once you fall thru the cracks of the US database state, without a verifiable physical address it's possible that a US citizen would be unable to renew his drivers license, establish any new financial accounts, etc. The database state is being designed without any thought or exceptions for the needs of expats.

Monger514
09-25-06, 22:29
The database state is being designed without any thought or exceptions for the needs of expats.But it's stopping the terrorists, right?

Lexton
09-26-06, 00:12
I just looked at the New Jersey 6-point ID stuff. Thanks for the link, After5. It is about what I expected. The one thing that confuses me is that they put so much emphasis on a birth certificate. Maybe it is different now, but it used to be that a birth certificate was very easy to obtain, just by writing to the state and asking for a copy. There was no need to verify your ID in any way to get it. For identity theft, if that is still true, there is very little in the 6-point plan that is a deterrent. Another example of a lot of regulation and regimentation that basically adds up to nothing useful.

While I am not in favor of regulation in general, there is a legitimate need to be able to unequivocally identify yourself in today's mobile, electronic society. What I don't like is the quasi-government standing without oversight that the credit reporting companies and that check verification company have gotten. I also don't like that all the companies use your ID # to link information with other companies. I think they should be able to request to REVIEW the id when necessary, but there is just too much risk when they record it and use it to tie all the records together.

There is, however, a huge hole in all of this in the support for expats. This may be an opportunity for someone, because with the baby boomers there sure as hell are going to be more and more footloose retirees.

I doubt the story about the guy and the 400k. That sounds like one of those old wives tales.

But it is still clear there are 2 issues:

1. An address that may be used to establish a legal residence. You can now see why it is illegal to use a CMRA and put 'apt' in the address instead of # or PMB. A definite no-no for the drivers license and more especially, auto insurance. However, it is not clear that the CMRA may not be used for a legal address with the '#' for the number. The NJ site says a PO box address can't be used, but does not specifically mention CMRA's.

For a permanent residence, you may definitely use a relative or any other domicile. Dickhead is right about the idea of changing drivers license, auto insurance, medical and life insurance, open a local bank account with safe deposit box, registering to vote, as primary ways of intent to establish residence. Auto insurance and some health insurance has location dependent costs, and there are therefore more stringent legal requirements for those addresses.

The ACTIVE ONGOING help is needed because some documents HAVE to be sent to this address over the years. That makes Dickhead's approach problematical now. I wouldn't do anything that didn't have permanence for years.

2. An address for sending other stuff. Most bank statements, credit card bills, and so on. This can definitely be a CMRA, and more than one CMRA for different purposes if necessary. This is no different than a lot of people who get these documents sent to a business office address instead of home.

I am mulling what to do about Nevada. I am even thinking of trying to hire a law or accounting firm as an address. Or trying to pay some resident to use their address, and forward me the required mail. I sure wish I had a close relative in Nevada.

Does anyone know if they actually did repeal the Personal Property Tax in Nevada in 2003, as per the passed legislation? It might save me some research. Also, other info on Las Vegas legal residence possibilities?

After5
09-26-06, 00:32
I just looked at the New Jersey 6-point ID stuff. Thanks for the link, After5. It is about what I expected. The one thing that confuses me is that they put so much emphasis on a birth certificate. Maybe it is different now, but it used to be that a birth certificate was very easy to obtain, just by writing to the state and asking for a copy. There was no need to verify your ID in any way to get it.This has been tightened up quite a bit too, to stop the scam in which one obtains the birth certificate of an infant of similar age who died young, in order to establish a false identity. Here's the current requirements from the Texas Dept. Of Health Services web page for ordering birth certificates:


Birth certificates with the date of birth from 75 years ago to the present are considered protected records and can only be released to the individual, the mother or the father listed on the birth certificate. Immediate family members and others who can supply documentation that they have a legal right to the birth certificate may apply through the other methods described on the Texas Vital Statistics website.

Please have the following items ready:

* The full name of the individual on the birth certificate.

* The date of the birth.

* The city or county where the birth took place.

* The full name of the father on the birth certificate, if listed.

* The full maiden name of the mother on the birth certificate, if listed.

If you are ordering a protected birth certificate (one where the date of birth is within the last 75 years) you will also need the following items:

* Your current driver license or state-issued identification card (you will need to be able to reference the actual card).
* Your Social Security number.


Date of birth on the birth certificate (mm / dd / yyyy) required)

Your relationship to person whose birth certificate is being requested (required)

Eligibility Agreement.

WARNING: The penalty for knowingly making a false statement on this application can be 2-10 years and a fine of up to $10,000. (Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 195, Sec. 195.003) Applications for Texas Vital Records are monitored for fraud and violators will be prosecuted. Fraudulent applications are not eligible for refunds.https://www.texasonline.state.tx.us/tolapp/ovra/SelectRequestType.htm

It appears that the online web site actually verifies the drivers license number (just as a state trooper would do in a traffic stop) and the SSN (via online query to SocSec database, which is also done by Motor Vehicle departments now)

Dickhead
09-26-06, 00:45
Aren't different types of personal property taxed at wildly different rates in different states and even counties? I don't have a property tax issue, just a state income tax issue.

I looked at Lexton's link and I have a state driver's license and believe it or not my original social security card which is almost 40 years old, and a state professional license. I don't think I need to worry about the six point shit.

I just need to break my nexis to my current state so I think my plan is OK. I also don't care about permanence and in fact if nobody can ever find me again that is fine too.

What I think I need to investigate next is if solely continuing to receive mail in my former state overrides all the other steps I take to break the nexis, and if I can prove I never went back to the previous state I'm betting I'm okay. Plus they'd have to audited me in the former state, and if I don't file a return what the fuck do they have to audit?

Anybody see any other land mines out there?

Dickhead
09-26-06, 01:02
I think Wyoming or Alaska might be better choices for people who in reality don't live in the US. I say this because Wyoming has a huge budget surplus as they get most of their revenue from mineral severances taxes. There's no state income tax and a low state sales tax. Alaska has neither a state income tax nor a state sales tax (the only state with neither). It has the "Alaska Permanent Fund" that, under certain circumstances actually sends every resident a check at the end of the year. But, there's a physical presence test. See:

https://www.pfd.state.ak.us/

If you're a student you still might be able to establish Alaska residency and get this money, $1100 and some this year.

All this is tentative and I will be researching this and adding to the information base to the best of my abilities.

Here's a good site that talks about all state fees and taxes:

http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxes.html

We expats have to think about taxation of retirement benefits as well, for example. Well, I don't but some do. Also some states tax investment income differently than earned income. Plus driver's license fees, car registration fees, all that shit. Check it out.

Seismo
09-26-06, 01:34
www.dmvnv.com/dlresidency.htm

Above Link is to Nevada drivers licence residency requirements. When I got mine many years ago, I used and still use a private mail drop address with just the actual street address [no PMB nonsense]. Driver licence is good for 4 years and you can renew once online, meaning you must go in person 8 years after receiving your initial licence.

You will not be able to register to vote by using a non-residential address, however.

No state income tax, corporations and llcs are relatively cheap and fairly private. Sales tax and other fees are high, but if you aren't here much it shouldn't matter.

If any of you need a referral to a private mail service in the center of Las Vegas, email me for info. You should be able to open account by phone.

Dickhead
09-26-06, 01:53
Thanks, Seismo. Too bad my license does not have my SSN on it. That was or is optional to be shown although I had to disclose it. Sounds like a piece of cake. I actually had a Nevada license many years ago and coming from where I had lived before, I remember being amazed at the amount of tickets you could get without losing your license. I see it is still very liberal as far as points go. That might be another thing to think about for some people who actually still drive on a regular basis.

El Aleman
09-26-06, 02:08
I don't know if that helps, but there must still be ways to open a bank account without an U. S. Address.

I opened an account in a California bank in January this year, without ever having lived in that state, without ever having lived anywhere in the U. S. All ID I needed was my German passport, and the monthly statements are sent to my German address.

Maybe this works due to regulations aimed at foreigners like me, but they might as well work for an U. S. Citizen with a permanent residency abroad. Worth to check.

El Alemán

StrayLight
09-26-06, 06:49
For many years when I was on active duty in the military I was a legal Nevada resident without having hardly ever set foot in the state.

I passed through once, got a box a Mail Boxes Etc. in Carson City, then went down to Motor Vehicle and got a driver's license. No problema. They still more or less had the wild west mentality of no-government-is-good-government, and absolutely no questions were asked.

Voting was another issue. I actually had to show a residential address. A friend had a friend who had a cousin who lived in Incline Village at Tahoe, and so that's how I registered. No questions were asked, and no proof that I actually lived at the place was required.

After I had done both of those things, I simply went to the payroll office and changed my state of residency. My taxes changed, and no questions were ever asked anywhere.

The only time me being an active duty military guy was ever brought into the equation was when I registered my cars. But since we don't deal with that in Argentina, it's a moot point for this discussion.

Bottom line was that Nevada was a piece of cake to be a resident of.

From what I've read on the Internet, changing residency to Florida is more or less a piece of cake, too (except for voter registration). Since I use USABox, also, in Miami as my mail forwarder, I'm almost 100% certain that's where I'll change to when the dust has settled.

SL

After5
09-26-06, 19:24
www.usabox.com is a Commercial Mail Receiving Agent, I am sure. This allows them to receive mail from the USPS on your behalf. The idea of the 'PMB' versus '#' is this: Apparently, postal regs require the use of 'PMB' to designate the number of a CMRA. They DO NOT allow the use of 'apt', 'ste', or 'ofc', for example. There was a long hard fight some years ago by some CMRA's to allow the use of simply '#' instead of 'PMB'. Thus, an address of 8345 NW 66TH ST PMB 1342 may also be written 8345 NW 66TH ST #1342. The reason for this request is that a PMB has a stigma attached for many businesses and government agencies, because it is not a domicile.I e-mailed usabox.com to clarify this point. They responded as follows:


Dear Mr. After5

You need to use PMB or #

The address used will be of the form:
Your Name
8345 NW 66TH ST PMB 5555
MIAMI FL 33166

or
Your Name
8345 NW 66TH ST #5555
MIAMI FL 33166

This is in accordance with USPS regulations which allow either 'PMB' or '#' to be used.

http://pe.usps.gov/text/DMM300/508.htm

Now a related question -- are similar, RELIABLE private mailbox services available in BA, for those who travel or change address frequently?

El Perro
09-26-06, 20:04
Why would you want a private mailbox here? USABox will send your mail anywhere in the world (for a price) You simply enter a new address on their website and voila. Now, if you are looking for a place in BA to receive / hold your mail that is another question. Before I became comfortable receiving my work "shipments" via Fedex at my BA residential address from the states, I looked into a place that would receive and hold my mail. Slim pickings. Correo Argentina will do it, but they struck me as amateurish and maybe not to be trusted. Not from a "thief" perspective, but not sufficiently organized. I will be faced with a similar situation when I relocate to Europe in a few months. I plan to get in touch with American Express. I understand they will hold mail for cardholders for up to a month, but I have not confirmed this.

StrayLight
09-26-06, 20:20
Why would you want a private mailbox here? USABox will send your mail anywhere in the world (for a price) You simply enter a new address on their website and voila.I agree. USABox is incredibly easy, convenient, and inexpensive.

Once you get an account, they notify you by e-mail whenever something arrives in Miami. You can then log on the the web site, and view a photocopy of the envelope, then decide whether to keep it or have them chuck it. They keep a running tab of the weight of your accumulated mail, and once it reaches a point where it suits your needs and wallet, you do just as Doggboy said. Enter a name and address anywhere, and within a few working days it's all in your hands.

It's a great system.

SL