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Chascomus
01-28-07, 13:05
I have lots of people asking me, here's my answer:

To build a home in a gated community near Buenos Aires would cost the following:

Building Lot

If you are looking for a lot, you can find them every so often in the areas from Olivos to San Isidro, otherwise you can choose one in one of the MANY gated communities all along the Panamericans Highway. There must be over 500 gated communities in all each offering different services, but all having in common security guards with private entrances. I talk more about gated communities on my website: www.hereicomeargentina.com

Prices vary, but you can find good lots for: USD $90k

Construction Costs

This cost varies greatly depending on the quality construction you use. If you want to build a good quality home expect to pay around U$650 per sq.meter. If you are thinking of a 3 bedroom home you will need at least 200 sq. meters.

A 200 sq.meter home (2152 sq. ft.) at U$650 per sq.meter would cost USD $130k

Construction Plans

To draw the plans an architect will need to provide over 50 plans of detailed information, (that’s how they work here, very detailed). The cost of a project runs at 5% of the construction costs. For a 200 sq. meter home, the project would cost: USD $6,500

General Contractor “Dirreccion de obra”

You would need to hire a General to direct the construction and NEVER hire anyone related to the construction company. You need someone to supervise and inspect the construction that is on YOUR SIDE and will represent YOUR INTERESTS. The cost of General contracting is 7% of the cost of construction. Your cost: USD $9,100

Total Cost: $235,600 USD

Any questions, just ask: www.hereicomeargentina.com

askpaul@hereicomeargentina. Com

Moore
01-28-07, 14:56
That's maybe 1/10th the cost to build such a house in a such a neighborhood just outside of many other world class cities.

Relatively speaking, materials and especially labor are so cheap in Argentina that they might as well be free. When you visit a new US$240k suburban house in Argentina, it is built like a US$10 million house in the USA, albeit not as big. The craftsmanship/materials are outstanding and the solid construction is similar to what you see in old Europe. A hurricane wouldn't take one of these houses down.

However, I don't understand why someone would want to live in the suburbs in BsAs regardless of how nice the house is. It's not like the USA where you have everything you need/want out in the suburbs and maybe only go downtown a few times per year. In BsAs its seems that just about everything is in the city as I suppose it was in USA before WW2.

If you are an American that has spent some time in BsAs and are looking for something a bit closer to your US suburban house/lifestyle, I would suggest looking in one of the large provincial cities like Cordoba, Rosario, or even Mar del Plata. There you can have a good sized house/lot with a pool and you're still only a few miles/minutes out of downtown. These are great places and the real estate is much cheaper than BsAs. When I buy a place in Argentina I will seriously consider these cities.

MCSE
01-28-07, 16:18
I agree with you Moore.

In addition, Buenos Aires Provincia it's pretty dangerous and controlled by the corrupt Policia Bonaerense. You only have to read the newspapers daily and you'll see lots of crimes commited in the province.

Suburbs are generally sorounded by "villas miseria", and safety it's a big issue in the provincia. You should add to the cost of construction, all the panaphernalia of security systems and armored car (I'm not kidding) While in some neigborhoods of BA you can buy an entire floor for the same amount. Also, principal attractions of Buenos Aires are placed in the capital (bars, restaurants, boliches, girl boliches, etc.

Finally, if you want to see (many has commented in this forum about working girls buying real estate in the "provincia") what kind of houses you can buy with USD 10k to 20k take a look here http://www.ciarpella.com.ar/Ventas-Casashasta50.htm

Chascomus
01-28-07, 16:29
It's true, we "suburbians" depend a lot on the city of BA, but really, life out here is pretty good. We now have a few shopping centers with supers like Jumbo, and we have lots of medical and dental offices. It isn't as bad as it used to be. As far as safety, I would advise anyone interested to choose a lot / home in one of the few, (20 or less gated comuninties) that are right along the freeway as they are safe and have easy in and out access. Another thing, in these gated comunities you have a lot of outdoor activities: tennis courts, handball, pools, clubhouses, etc. And to go running, you usually have enough acreage to go all over the neighborhood and get a full hour in. And heres a problems with some of the areas like Mar del Plata or even Cordobla. You may not have all the medical services and good choices the city of BA has. I lived in a small town called "Chascomus". Just 1 hour from the city, and we had to go into the city for any medical problems, whether small or big. The town had good veterinarians, but no good docs. And as for "activity with chicks". Well, you are just a 25 minute ride to the city. Or just call and have one delivered.

Moore
01-28-07, 17:40
Sure I've passed thru Chascomus on my way to Mar del Plata many times. But that is a town of maybe 40,000 while Cordoba and Rosario are >1 million and Mar del Plata well over 1/2 million. How can you compare Chascomus to that?

I believe there are quite extensive medical/dental services in the three aforementioned cities going by my Docthos guide. There are huge selections of bars, restaurants, whoares in these cities. I prefer the bar/pub scene of MDP to that of Capital.

One of the only detriments I see to living in a provincial city is not having direct access to Ezeiza/Aeroparque. Even to travel domestically you have to connect in Aeroparque 95% of the time. But big deal so you have to take a 1 hour connection flight to BsAs 4 or 5 times per year.

MCSE
01-28-07, 18:16
. As far as safety, I would advise anyone interested to choose a lot / home in one of the few, (20 or less gated comuninties) that are right along the freeway as they are safe and have easy in and out access. http://www.clarin.com/diario/2007/01/17/um/m-01346607.htm


. And as for "activity with chicks". Well, you are just a 25 minute ride to the city. Or just call and have one delivered.That's actually very hard to accomplish, and expensive.

In addition, gated "countries" are preffered by families in their late 30's and 40's, they don't like having a monger neighborhood.

Daddy Rulz
01-28-07, 18:52
I've never understood why there isn't more "dry" construction. I grew up building wood frame houses in the States and all of those houses are still standing. It's fast, and while I'm certainly not an expert in Argentinian construction I think wood frame is cheaper.

A friend of mine's mother here built a house withng the last two years and it took 6 months for about 2000 sq ft. Plus it is developing some bad cracks. The ground here is a little loose and most houses settle. A concrete house isn't made to adjust like that, it's far to rigid while a wood frame will settle with the ground.

Just curious, I'm sure there are good reasons for doing it as they do.

BadMan
01-28-07, 20:57
I am not sure about this one Rulz,

I noticed the same thing in Europe, in fact in Europe when I told some people that in the US we make houses out of wood and drywall, they all laugh and make comments about how we, being the wealthiest nation in the world have to build homes out of wood and paper instead of strong sturdy bricks and steel beams. I think in places like California wood houses are more resistant to earthquakes and things like that so maybe that is why they use wood. As far as BA is concerned, I am sure their building codes require that houses be made of bricks, cement and steel beams. These homes, IMHO are much sturdier than wood constructions. And in a place where earthquakes are not an issue they are also something of a luxury. Though I do agree that homes made out of wood and drywall and cheap insullation are much more cost efficient than homes built here. The reason most people in the US don't use bricks and steel beams, aside from the earthquake factor, is that they are way too expensive to build. Take a drive down to Beverly Hills and you will see many estates built of pure bricks and steel beams. The averave american could not afford these things, but in these countries the "mano de obra" and cost of material still make this a cheap option. A brick, cement and steal home in the US would cost twice as much as a wooden home.

Badboy

BundaLover
01-28-07, 22:36
"Take a drive down to Beverly Hills and you will see many estates built of pure bricks and steel beams."

Badboy actually you are off the mark on this one. Firstly, last time I checked southern california is within california. These pure bricks that you mention are not structural they are applied to the outside membrane. There is a structural wall on the otherside of the membrane. That wall is typically wood stud but may also be concrete, CMU, steel stud. You are correct that UBC in California is often zone 4 and hence we need flexible walls as bricks would crumble. This is not cheaper construction any more then fine soft leather that is thinner is 'cheaper' than thick leather.

Excuse me but the typical or mean Bay Area house is about 700k and that is for a medicore 3/2 ranch. We can afford bricks but we don't like it when they fall down and kill all the residents. One could not build nor get insurance for non seismic brick houses.

Best that you stick to pussy as you are clueless about construction.

Pete Puma
01-28-07, 23:13
You are both right and wrong. I grew up in Los Angeles and have seen the change from houses with wood outside to stucco. Stucco cracks when there are earthquakes but it is easy to patch up. I have seen people stucco over wood because it was to expensive to keep repairing it. It is about the labor. I live in Las Vegas now and people here love to remodel the outside of their homes. The labor is less expensive than LA. Just like fashion peoples taste change. There are a great many reasons why people do things. It depends on the individual, just like everyones taste in Women.

BadMan
01-28-07, 23:37
Best that you stick to pussy as you are clueless about construction.A little feisty and confrontational aren't we Bunda? You are lying if you are telling me that a modern day all brick home is somehow the same cost of a wood and dry wall construction. And I don't disagree, that in California people don't use brick or cement construction because of seismic activity. I stated that in my post so you are only repeating the obvious (what do they say about those that repeat the obvious?)

But in states where their is no problem with earthquakes and as you put it, falling brick houses. The cost of building materials for a modern brick and steel home is far more expensive than a wooden carcass. But you are right, I am not a construction specialist, though I am entitled to my opinion.

So how bout you stick to giving yourself advice.

Thanks,

Bad

Daddy Rulz
01-29-07, 06:10
A little feisty and confrontational aren't we Bunda? You are lying if you are telling me that a modern day all brick home is somehow the same cost of a wood and dry wall construction. And I don't disagree, that in California people don't use brick or cement construction because of seismic activity. I stated that in my post so you are only repeating the obvious (what do they say about those that repeat the obvious?

But in states where their is no problem with earthquakes and as you put it, falling brick houses. The cost of building materials for a modern brick and steel home is far more expensive than a wooden carcass. But you are right, I am not a construction specialist, though I am entitled to my opinion.

So how bout you stick to giving yourself advice.

Thanks,

BadThough not in California, which generally has it's own rules.

The vast majority of brick homes are brick attached to a wood frame, generally covered by densglass than a 2 inch air pocket and finally the masonary attached to the structure with masonary clips, which are attached to the studs be they wood in homes or steel in commercial buildings. In commercial construction one would add either an inch and a half or two inches of styrofoam. There is even a new product by Carlisle Roofing which is a rubber membrain, it totally seals the building, and is a real b1tch to put on when it's cold.

It doesn't really matter what the venier is as there are processes to attach any kind of venier to the frame, siding, drivet (falling out of fashion because it doesn't wear well) stucco whatever.

What I'm wondering is why there is not more framing going on here. It's so much faster than the morter, followed by the red bricks with the cement floors. Was there at one time bad fires here that have made people afraid of wood frame? There's a shitload of trees here and in Brazil there is a whole rainforest to be taken down.

Again I'm sure there is a reason, though that does imply the use of logic, I'm just wondering what it might be.

Andres, any ideas?

BundaLover
01-30-07, 02:26
Even in Brasil where there are materials they don't do wood framing of even 1 to 3 story structures. They export lots of engineered products and some board hardwood but there is no such thing as lumber yard with framing lumber. I guess mud / clay is cheaper than wood even in Brasil. They are using CMU for most small stuff and steel and concrete for the taller stuff. Not unlike Argentina. The noise in major cities would make wood frame not desirable. Very little is sprinklerred down there. Good point about fire.

I noticed a lot of wood frame structures even commercial in Patagonia. Lots of trees and European desendants. High quality.

One thing kind of interesting is the SHIT quality of most south american concrete. They frequently mix on site and water it too much and the results are predictable. They also think that a 3" slab is a good idea because they can save 49 cents of material. The capital of Brasilia is a complete FUCK UP. They don't show you the spalling and warning signs and barrcades in the post cards from the 1980's that they sell today because the whole fucking concrete city is going to last one tenth as long as the Mayan ruins.

Daddy Rulz
01-30-07, 03:15
Your right the concrete here does suck. If you walk under Gral Paz (the train broke down in Rividavia as I was going to the Mansion) you can see exposed rebar from where the concrete is just falling off. In my ex's apartment there are a couple spots on the floor where large pieces have just cracked and come up. I bet they don't slump it as they pour it. This one building I did in the States last summer got delayed a month because the concrete samples didn't hold on one of the tests. As they pour the make samples in tubes then after certain amounts of time they crush them and if they don't hold a certain wieght before failing the pour is deemed unacceptable and has to be jackhammered out.

As far as noise, once the foam and brick are on the outside and some r-19 inside I would imagine that concrete would transport sound better than all those air pockets. The more I think about this the more I think it's an "this is how we have allways done it" thing. No matter how long I'm here sometimes I have to remind myself that logic must NEVER be applied.

Norman Stormin
01-30-07, 11:14
The side walks here are a good case in point of poor construction standards. Part of the problem is each building is responsible for its own sidewalk and there is no commisar of sidewalks to force you to repair it. Additionally, it is not a permit or inspection item. When a homeowner or consortium decides it's time to replace it, they bid it out and the biggest crook (lowest price) or somebody's cousin gets the job. Naturally, they want to make a profit, so they use the cheapest material and methods available.

Even big public works projects seem to function this way. Have you noticed the all the work the ministry of public spaces has been doing lately? Public parks and side walks. They just chip out the old tiles, throw down about an inch of mud, and set new tiles on top of dirt and a little rubble. It looks great for a year before it starts to crack and break up. Whatever happened to the system the Roman's designed 2,000 years ago? Excavate at least a foot and fill with gravel and type II.

I asked a civil engineer friend of mine about this. Answer: Absolutly correct about the prep work. But nobody does it for a myriad of reasons all related to money. Only the the biggest and best commercial buildings get the correct treatment.

By way of the thread topic, Pulte constrtuction, a large American homebuilder, Is building stick homes somewhere out in the province. And I've noticed the use of drywall (metal studs) in a lot of remodle and new construction lately. Stick your head into the station at Once. They are drywalling over all of that beautiful ornate original interior cement facade work. Two years ago, 36 billares remodled and did their ceiling in drywall (albeit they carefully protected the original inlaid woodwork). They've disovered a new and cheaper way to P&D (patch and destroy) the grandure their forefathers built a hundred years ago. Exactly as the government's been doing to the economy for the last 60 years.

Gandolf50
01-31-07, 00:16
Pulte and several other builders are involved in what is called "Countries" or " Barrios Privado " They seem to be all over the place now. If you look in Sat. Clarin they have a section devoted to this along with a map showing their locations. I know several of these communities near me are sold out, or at least people have bought up the lots and some are trying to resell at enormus profits. The prices seems to be quite high, high enough that I am thinking about converting my little farm into a miniture " Country "

Daddy Rulz
01-31-07, 14:15
Pulte and several other builders are involved in what is called "Countries" or "Barrios Privado" They seem to be all over the place now. If you look in Sat. Clarin they have a section devoted to this along with a map showing their locations. I know several of these communities near me are sold out, or at least people have bought up the lots and some are trying to resell at enormus profits. The prices seems to be quite high, high enough that I am thinking about converting my little farm into a miniture "Country"I have some friends that live in Santa Barbera, which is a country by Pacheco, sorta near Tigre. They bought 3 years ago for 55K and he tells me he could sell now for 120 plus. Seems a little high to me but he is a pretty good friend, so if it's wrong it's because he has bad info not because he's bullshitting.

MCSE
01-31-07, 23:19
You are right, and let me add not only the concrete, but also the balconies falling down has been an issue during the summer, one and two years ago (seems no balcony fallen yet this summer) but also a cause for using cheap methods it's the legal system. Unless your building kills hundreds of people, it's hard to sue the builders for harmful damages or personal damages. In the US it's also possible to lawsuit the city. Here they will laugh at you. Because of the lack of regulations and as said, legal system, quality construction it's a luxury, but, does not means all the new constructions and sidewalks in BA are cheap.

You should take a walk by La Imprenta, las canitas, and you'll see all the streetsides are well mantained. That's why I like this neighborhood and also because people it's more classy.

If you check out the new buildings in Puerto Madero, and Barrio Parque you'll also see the quality on every aspect of the construction including but not limited to architecture, structural calculations, concrete and details are controlled as in any other developed country. Of course, the unit will cost more, because there is no possibility to hide costs.

Not less important it's the FOT, a regulation (corrupt and inconsistent) that avoid to build higher buildings. FOT makes city gets wider and bigger in suffrace, and of course, elevates the prices for real estate in the center axes, or valuable neighborhoods.

In my opinion quality on the construction has been related with the econ. If you check out barrio norte 80's buildings are not only ugly and cheap but also sensless ugly, without central services such as central heating system.

If you take a walk by Callao you'll see most of the buldings has been constructed in the 50's and Argentinean economy was in better shape.

Today Argentina attracts thousands of tourists because of the cheap prices. In other aspects of the porteno life it's possible to feel a cheap culture, however, in the US there are cheap houses, cheap constuction too. What makes the difference it's builders have to think twice before building something because they risk lawsuit attacks and risk losing big bucks.

In the 30's and before Argentina used to be a rich country, and they built great buildings, one of the pics attached belongs to the.

Buenos Aires Mouline rouge version, "confiteria el molino" art nuveau style, built in 1917 by the architecht Francesco Gianotti. Located in Rivadavia ave next to the congress, some materials has been imported from Italy.

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Barolo Palace. Esteticism Style. Built in 1922 located in Avenida de Mayo 1370, the architect was Mario Palanti. A houndred meters height (as the same amount of chapters as the "Divina Comedia" wrote by Dante Aligheri) This building was the higher one in Latin America until 1925, made under Luigi Barolo's direction (an Italian enteprenur) this building shows a secquence of different styles (neoromanic and gothic in the first floor and hindu on the top) and in the top there is a spining lighter that announced the box fight Firpo-Dempsey in 1923, and the light was able to see from Uruguay.

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Bank boston building: This building still property of Bank Boston, built in 1929 "neoplateresco style" by Paul Bell Chambers the materials on the front has been brought from Indiana.

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Gorostiaga Street, La Imprenta (las canitas, palermo) This is where we are renovating an apartment and looks better than any other porteno neighborhood. Streets and architecture it's much nicer than in many other neighborhoods in Buenos Aires, also, people looks better.

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Mirabilia Towers, those high towers are being constructed in Palermo Hollywood.

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Catalinas Towers, close to puerto madero, built in the menemism 90's