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Jackson
01-01-08, 02:00
Thread Starter.

Dickhead
05-27-08, 15:35
It is echa la ley, from the verb "echar" (to throw or toss away). Hecho (the masculine form of the past participle used as an adjective) comes from the verb "hacer" which means to do or to make. Hence "bien hecho" (well done), "tetas hechas" (fake tits, made tits, tits that have been done) or "trampa hecha" (a trick that has been done). When the past participle is used as an adjective, it must match the verb in number and gender, just like any other adjective. So:

Jamón cocido = cooked ham (masculine singular)
Huevos revueltos = scrambled eggs (masculine plural)
Calle destruida = a street that is all torn up (feminine singular)
Papas fritas = fried potatoes (feminine plural)

Another common expression using "echar" is "te echo por menos," which means "I miss you." I know a chica who sent this to a monger and he ran it through a translator and, based on the literal meaning of "echar" as to throw away, thought she was telling him to buzz off. I think the word "echarpe" (shawl) is also derived from echar; a shawl is something you throw around yourself. I could be wrong about that.

DR: "Vamos a ser ensalada," my friend. And ZM, I never forget the old adage, "A friend with weed is a friend indeed." I believe that can attributed to one of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers, probably Freewheelin' Franklin, for those who are old enough to remember (the others were Phineas Freek and Fat Freddy). Now that was back in the day.

Daddy Rulz
05-27-08, 15:58
It is echa la ley, from the verb "echar" (to throw or toss away). Hecha (the feminine form of the past participle used as an adjective) comes from the verb "hacer" which means to do or to make. Hence "tetas hechas" (fake tits, made tits, tits that have been done) or "trampa hecha" (a trick that has been done) When the past participle is used as an adjective, it must match the verb in number and gender, just like any other adjective. So:

Jamón cocido = cooked ham (masculine singular)

Huevos revueltos = scrambled eggs (masculine plural)

Puta bien cogida = a well-fucked wh@re (feminine singular)

Papas fritas = fried potatoes (feminine plural)

Another common expression using "echar" is "te echo por menos," which means "I miss you." I know a chica who sent this to a monger and he ran it through a translator and, based on the literal meaning of "echar" as to throw away, thought she was telling him to buzz off. I think also the word "echarpe" (shawl) is derived from echar; a shawl is something you throw around yourself.

"Vamos a ser ensalada," my friend.According to Joe, who literally learned Castillano at her mother's breast unlike you who learned it at some gatto's breast, it is hecho la ley. When she first said it I asked her to explain, her translation "I (meaning we Argentines) make the law, I (we) make the trick / trap / justification for breaking." Clearly hecho, not echa.

It does explain a lot of behavior, since the idea that we make the laws, and they are there to serve me then I may break them when it suites me because obviously if I need to break it, it isn't serving me at the moment.

It also explains why some law breaking is not supported by society at large. Once at Cabildo why Lacroze I witnessed some pelotudo stealing a purse from a viajita in line for the bus. All of the people in line started yelling and pointing at the guy running away. A cop was about a half a block away and started chasing said pelotudo who as it turned out was the illegitimate child of Carl Lewis or something, he was so fucking fast it wasn't funny. Some kid coming by on a moto saw what happened, saw that the cop had no way of catching the pelotudo so he pulled up next to the cop, cop jumps on moto, kid takes off and in a great Starsky and Hutch moment the cop jumped off the moto to bring the miscreant to justice. Not robbing little old ladies is more like a law of God to Argies than a law of man like not smoking weed. So since it was one they didn't make, then it could not be broken with impunity, hence the civil involvement with the hated Mafia know as the PFA.

I'm not saying you're a dick head, just wrong nanananana. However for all the duffuses that are not privy to my relationship regarding the Spanish language and brother Dickhead, me correcting him is indeed a first and I do not suspect it will happen again anytime soon.

I still giggle about going to be the salad. Tommy thought it was pretty funny as well.

Again Jax off topic but a good story I hope I'm forgiven. Besides who ever gets to correct DH spanish, I couldn't help myself.

Dickhead
05-27-08, 17:15
Mira vos. I called Gisell, who learned Spanish at her mom's tit and has even bigger tits than Jo's mom I am sure, and she confirmed you are correct that it comes from hacer and not echar, and gave a very similar explanation about "we make the law so we can throw it out." But she says it is "Hecha (not hecho) la ley, hecha la trampa" because both ley and trampa are feminine. Then she said, "Hecho el fuego, hecho el humo" to demonstrate the masculine / feminine thing. So we are both wrong, it seems. I can't make any grammatical sense out of this use of the past participle. The past participle as an adjective should follow the noun and not precede it. Gisell said she would call back and explain further.

Tomorrow I will consult with our maid, Mariana, who will probably have an extensive explanation involving "nosotros hablamos mal." Mariana is hesitant to correct my Spanish but does at times and I think I now sort of understand "llevar" versus "traer" thanks to her efforts. Gisell on the other hand corrects my Spanish all the time, in addition to pointing out any zits, shaving cuts, missing buttons, and so forth I may have. She justifies this by pointing out that she is the oldest in her family whereas I am the youngest in mine. Somehow this allows her to be my older sister despite the fact I am almost 22 years older than she is. I guess fucking your older sister is somewhat better than fucking your younger sister?

My exact question to her was, "¿(H)echa la ley; sale del verbo hacer o del verbo echar?" and after saying it came from "hacer," she immediately said: ¡"Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa"! So now I want to know why, when I tell people dinner is ready, they say "voy" (I am going) instead of "vengo" (I am coming). I had an extensive discussion of this with Gisell and Flor over at Gisell's place and I still can't make any sense out of it.

So this is all very unclear but one thing is abundantly clear: Gisell has some big ol' fucking titties, is proud of them, and knows how to use them.

More to follow. Aqualung or any other native speakers, please feel free to educate me further.

MCSE
05-27-08, 19:41
Hecha (hacer verb)

The phrase means "they make the law, they make the trick" but doesn't sounds good in english, the asertive english traslation would be the phrase printed by the prodigy which by the way performed in Argentina "Fuck 'em and their law"

Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa means that for any law, there is a way to avoid the law.

Dickhead
05-27-08, 20:17
But see, this is why it doesn't make sense to me. "They" make the law would be "hacen." "Hecha" is "made." Los que hacen la ley puedan tramparla, or some such, but I guess that is not as not as poetic.

Some things just don't translate, I guess. Thanks, MCSE.

Aqualung
05-27-08, 21:44
It's "the law is made, the loophole is made"

Dickhead
05-27-08, 22:15
Fuck me. It makes no sense.

Daddy Rulz
05-28-08, 01:28
Elmore Lenard said it best, "Don't let correct usage keep your language from singing, whenever possible stick to the rules except when breaking them sounds better." Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa is balanced, concise, and as Shakespeare would have said "Falls trippingly from the tongue."

Gysell does indeed have some tig ol bitties.

Dickhead
05-28-08, 06:43
Elmore Leonard is a good writer but when discussing Gisell one must quote Emerson:

"Emerson big tits."

Hecha la ley hecha la trampa. Cualquier colectivo me deja en la puerta. Busco un Johnny para garchar en el locu. Andate cagá. Chupa la chuchi. Viste viste viste.

Aqualung
05-28-08, 09:07
Hecha la ley hecha la trampa. Cualquier colectivo me deja en la puerta. Busco un Johnny para garchar en el locu. Andate cagá. Chupa la chuchi. Viste viste viste.Better Porteño: Cualquier bondi me deja bien;)

(it's "Andá a cagar")

El Greco
05-28-08, 09:33
Hecha (hacer verb)

The phrase means "they make the law, they make the trick" but doesn't sounds good in english, the asertive english traslation would be the phrase printed by the prodigy which by the way performed in Argentina "Fuck 'em and their law"

Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa means that for any law, there is a way to avoid the law.There is an old say in Greek very similar to that that goes like "The laws are made to be broken"

El Greco

Facundo
05-28-08, 12:55
Hecha (hacer verb)

The phrase means "they make the law, they make the trick" but doesn't sounds good in english, the asertive english traslation would be the phrase printed by the prodigy which by the way performed in Argentina "Fuck 'em and their law"

Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa means that for any law, there is a way to avoid the law.It appears the saying; "Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa" (Every law has a loophole) has a long historical use in Spain and Latin America. It first appeared in 1734 in the "Diccionario de la Real Academia Española" with the following definition; "A phrase that explains that enacting new laws, especially in trade and contracts, often give opportunity to maliciously delivered traps, or escape from the burdens imposed by the laws." (Frase con que se explica, que el aumentar nuevas leyes, especialmente en comercio why trato, suele dar ocasión para que discurran maliciosamente trampearlas, o evadirse de la carga que imponen.

In the Italian we have a similar saying; "Fatta la legge, pensata la malizia". It has the same meaning as, Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa", the skirting of the responsibility imposed by the law.

I think the best and creative use of the phrase; "Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa", is by a very bright young Italian, Fosco Maraini, who wrote the book, Secreto Tibet. In this book he describes Japanese monks who had a law to only eat meat from sea animals. So, the monks decided to call the wild boar (Jabali) wild whale (ballena silvestri) Fosco Maraini referred to this skirting of the law as, "Hecha la ley, hecha la trampa)

Daddy Rulz
05-28-08, 13:34
I find the differences between Anglo and Latin culture fascinating and wonder what role language plays in them. I'm not a linguest nor do I play one on television though it seems to me that the primary way we share our thoughts (speaking) would have a lot to do about how we construct our thoughts and habits.

I'm wondering about a similar phrase in English, a few come to mind "By hook or by crook" and "Where there is a will there is a way" but neither of them really imply irrelevance of law. They imply breaking it but at the same time they assert it's validity by saying you may have to break it. Hecha la lay to me implies that the law is meaningless, that the sayer has the right to break the law. Any ideas for similar phrases in English.

Another word usage that seems to capture Latin sociological thought to me is not differentiating between "earning" and "winning" there is a word for earn (I don't remember what it is and whenever I have asked a Spanish speaker they had to think about it as well) In common usage "cuanto ganas?" works for both "what did you win at the casino?" and "how much do you get paid at your job?"

Obviously this is off thread, but not off topic of the last few days.

Edit: very cool I posted this in the "cost of living" thread with the disclaimer of it being off topic and must have posted it as Jax was making this new thread as it went online. I formally retract my apology as I am now on topic.

El Perro
05-28-08, 14:10
I find the differences between Anglo and Latin culture fascinating and wonder what role language plays in them. I'm not a linguest nor do I play one on television though it seems to me that the primary way we share our thoughts (speaking) would have a lot to do about how we construct our thoughts and habits.DR-your curioisty has been shared by many for many years. I suggest you google "Whorf Hypothesis" if you want to delve into language and it's effect on thought (and subsequently, culture) Interesting reading, for as much of it as you can handle.:)

MCSE
05-28-08, 15:47
Castellano, is NOT the Spanish dialect spoken in Argentina. Castellano it's the official language spoken in Spain, as well as Argentina, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela, and almost in the whole Latin American countries, sometimes as a second co-official language, with some exceptions as Brazil, Guyanas, Surinam, etc.

In fact, "spanish" language does not exist, or, it's not the correct name for the language, the confusion sometimes comes because the rules for the language are imposed by the "Royal Spaniard Accademy" and they re-write the "Diccionario de la Real Lengua Espanola". While it's true that the language first spreaded (originated in the region of Castilla, Spain) by the country, replacing the dialects (Euzkadi, Catala, etc) that in certain regions of Spain they keep speaking (the dialects as a co-official language as well)

The Dialect spoken in Buenos Aires is the "porteno" and some times the "lunfardo", lunfardo mostly findable in the tango lyrics.

Dickhead
05-28-08, 15:55
That is some good stuff, Facundo. Excellent. Very interesting. Aqualung, I am sure you are right but my poorly educated friend says "Andate cagá" to me when she is pissed off. I have heard "cualquier colectivo me deja bien" and also "cualquier colectivo me deja igual." I know about "bondi" but I don't hear that. Could be a difference in age groups.

Apologies to Jackson for making him clean up this mess.

So I had a non-productive discussion about "hecha la ley" with Mariana. She explained that it was the past participle of hacer, which we already determined. She was very clear that it was not a noun, which we already knew. I asked her why the participle was before the noun and she said it was an idiomatic expression like "What's happening?" in English. She said "What's happening?" in English and it was just so cute. Mariana is very, very cute. When I first moved into the old mansion, Capt. Dave told me there was one rule: don't fuck Mariana, because pussy is readily available but good maids are hard to find.

And, I haven't. But I want to. The older she gets (must be about 38 by now) the more I want to fuck her. She is aging well, like a fine wine (like I would know anything about fine wines) or a sharp cheddar. A lot of you guys have met her. She is studying English at Wall Street and has really improved a lot. That is both good and bad because some of the shit we say around here is better left untranslated.

I have never heard anything but "ganar" as far as salary or wages goes, except for of course "pagar." I looked up "earn" in my dictionary and I got "ganar."

MCSE
05-28-08, 16:02
1- I insist that the "LL" double L should not be considered as a single character.

2- Also, "CH" c+h was considered when I was in school as a single charcter, but the royal accademy suppresed it a few years ago.

3- The "ñ" it's another one, like in Italian language could be replaced by "g+n", and the keyboards would be more global.

4- In latin-american countries the "z" and "s" are pronounced the same way.

But anyways, as long as it works for business and for getting laid, at least in my case, the language should be not considered too important, I NEVER aproved castellano, but I've been admitted to the Law school in a private University, in fact, I've pre-aproved "English" in the admission and that added extra credits. Sweet!

Dickhead
05-28-08, 16:51
Your English is very good, especially your spelling. I can tell it isn't your first language but overall it is better than most of the native speakers who post on the board. Sometimes you use "the" when it isn't necessary, if you want a tip. English uses the definite article much less than Spanish.

Aqualung
05-28-08, 19:42
That is some good stuff, Facundo. Excellent. Very interesting. Aqualung, I am sure you are right but my poorly educated friend says "Andate cagá" to me when she is pissed off. I have heard "cualquier colectivo me deja bien" and also "cualquier colectivo me deja igual." I know about "bondi" but I don't hear that. Could be a difference in age groups.

Apologies to Jackson for making him clean up this mess.

So I had a non-productive discussion about "hecha la ley" with Mariana. She explained that it was the past participle of hacer, which we already determined. She was very clear that it was not a noun, which we already knew. I asked her why the participle was before the noun and she said it was an idiomatic expression like "What's happening?" in English. She said "What's happening?" in English and it was just so cute. Mariana is very, very cute. When I first moved into the old mansion, Capt. Dave told me there was one rule: don't fuck Mariana, because pussy is readily available but good maids are hard to find.

And, I haven't. But I want to. The older she gets (must be about 38 by now) the more I want to fuck her. She is aging well, like a fine wine (like I would know anything about fine wines) or a sharp cheddar. A lot of you guys have met her. She is studying English at Wall Street and has really improved a lot. That is both good and bad because some of the shit we say around here is better left untranslated.

I have never heard anything but "ganar" as far as salary or wages goes, except for of course "pagar." I looked up "earn" in my dictionary and I got "ganar."The problem with learning from people who haven't had access to much formal education is that they have it wrong so they are going to transmit it to you wrong.

The level of the chica's grammar is quite low. And the worst part is that those who don't know, don't even know they don't know so they happily and well intentionally pass on their mistakes.

And then you have those that are better educated and try to teach foreigners the "correct" way and not the way we talk in Argentina as they assume it to be wrong. For example teaching "Tu tienes" instead of "Vos tenes" which is absolutely correct in Argentine!

After all in the US when your car brakes down you open the hood and not the bonnet as you would in the UK and that is absolutely correct. That is if you have the slightest clue as to how to fix your car otherwise instead of correct it would be stupid.

So, next time a chica wants $500 for an hour tell her, like a good Argie, "Andá cagar y hacete culear en el orto por un burro!"

It certainly won't help to get her price down but she'll know she tried to overcharge the wrong gringo!

Jackson
05-28-08, 20:01
In the interest of getting the title of this thread correct, let me pose this question:

I understood (probably incorrectly) that two distinctive differences between Spanish and Castellano was the pronunciation of the double "LL" in that in Spanish the "LL is pronounced as "y" sound and in Castellano it is pronounced as an "s" sound, and also the use of "Vos" vs "Tu".

I have never heard the "LL" pronounced as a "S" or heard "Vos" used instead of "Tu' anywhere in any spanish country except Argentina, and I have often heard Argentinos refer to their language as "Castellano".

First, am I accurately identifying these two distinctions as being unique to the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Second, if the term "Castellano" is interchangeable with the term "Spanish:", then what is the correct name of the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Thanks,

Jackson

Dickhead
05-28-08, 20:23
Yeah, I understand I am sort of screwing myself by learning from uneducated people but what can I do? It is like learning English from the homeys in the hood. "Where the shitter at?" You ask that in the US and you will find out where the bathroom is, but it is a bit suboptimal.

I mean, I heard one gal I was traveling with ask, "¿Dónde es el baño?" and I said, "Um, shouldn't that be está?" and she said, "Es lo mismo." No, it's not.

That is why I try to rely on Aqualung and Andrés and Jo and such to correct my bad Spanish. I want to speak decent Spanish. I know it will always be my second language and I am too old to ever be bi-lingual but I want to get better. I really appreciate it. Gisell is well educated and helps me out a lot, and Flor her cohort seems to speak correctly also. Mariana, our maid, I don't know what her educational level is but she knows all the parts of speech and has been helping me with the plúscuamperfecto, which is very confusing to me.

I think I am getting better with the subjunctive, though. Roxana the Barber has a decent education (colegio de monjas) and speaks clearly and slowly. I told her to hold up one finger every time I should be using the subjunctive but don't and I think it is helping.

"Busco la mujer que quiera chupar la pija" (subjunctive because I don't know who this woman might be and she might not exist); I am looking for some woman, any woman, who likes to suck cock.

"Busco la mujer que quiere chupar la pija" (indicative, so there is definitely a woman that likes to suck cock and this is the woman to whom I refer); I am looking for a specific woman whom I already know, who likes to suck cock.

"Hablamos cuando vengas" (subjunctive because it refers to the future and for all I know you will never show up); we will talk when you get here.

"Dudo que sepas jugar ajadrez"; I doubt you know how to play chess so since there is doubt I use subjunctive.

"No dudo que sabés jugar ajadrez"; I don't doubt you know how to play chess, I believe you, I have seen you play it, so I use the indicative.

Roxana the Barber says I should focus on "triggers" for the subjunctive: doubt, uncertainty, inexistence, falseness. One time I said, "No soy estúpido" (this is arguable, of course) and she said, "Nunca dije que fueras" and a light went on. I would have expected, "Nunca dije que eras" or "Nunca dije que sos" but now I understand, I think. She never said I was stupid, so it is falseness, so it is subjunctive.

Is that right? Ojalá que hablara bien.

Andres
05-28-08, 20:25
In the interest of getting the title of this thread correct, let me pose this question:

I understood (probably incorrectly) that two distinctive differences between Spanish and Castellano was the pronunciation of the double "LL" in that in Spanish the "LL is pronounced as "why" sound and in Castellano it is pronounced as an "s" sound, and also the use of "Vos" vs "Tu".

I have never heard the "LL" pronounced as a "S" or heard "Vos" used instead of "Tu' anywhere in any spanish country except Argentina, and I have often heard Argentinos refer to their language as "Castellano".

First, am I accurately identifying these two distinctions as being unique to the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Second, if the term "Castellano" is interchangeable with the term "Spanish:", then what is the correct name of the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Thanks,

JacksonTechnically, Spanish doesn't exist. The language hat you hear in Mexico, Argentina and most of Spain is castellano, which comes from the Castilla region of Spain, the one that imposed its crown, its customs and its language over the rest.

There are at least 3 other languages spoken in Spain: Catalan (kind of mixture between French and Castellano) Basque (an enigma for most linguists as of where it comes from) and Galizan (basically, a Portuguese dialect) Such salad of languages and dialects is pretty common in many European countries.

As far as I know, the differences among Castellano-speaking countries (vos-tu, pronounciation, etc) are not strong enough to qualify as different dialects. All of them are considered the same language with different "localisms". In fact, all of them take the Real Academia Española dictionary as the basic reference.

You will find the same usage of "vos" in Paraguay.

Having a very strong base of Spaniard immigration (most from Galiza but also from Catalonia and Euskadi) it's not a surprise that the Argentine society names Spanish as Castellano. That doesn't happen in many other Spanish-speaking countries.

Andres

Dickhead
05-28-08, 20:30
Hola Andrés. Araceli te manda saludos. I had a Spanish tutor here in Argentina who said, "A language is just a dialect that has an army" and I thought that made a lot of sense.

Rock Harders
05-28-08, 20:35
Mongers,

"Castellano" is the name for the language that originated in the Castille why Leon region of Spain, and with the rise of the Castille region as the dominant force in the re-unification of Spain around the year 1500, "castellano" became the national language of Spain. In other parts of Spain the inhabitants speak other languages; in eastern Spain, they speak Catalan, in northwest Spain, Galician, etc, however ALL citizens of Spain today can speak Castellano, and thus it is viewed as the national language of Spain, and thus deemed "Spanish".

All other "spanish-speaking" parts of Latin American in fact speak "castellano", not catalan, galician or any other dialect. The "tu", which is the second person familiar, is the standard in most "spanish-speaking" countries, but not all. In Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, eastern Bolivia (camba) Cali (colombia) and parts of Central America the "vos" is used as the second person familiar in place of "tu". The difference between the two in common usage is that with the "vos" conjugated verb no stem-change is used, whereas with the "tu" conjugated verb a stem change does occur. For example "que queres?" (querer, vos form) and "que quieres?" (querer, tu form) Both in this case translated into English as "what do you want?".

The dialect spoken in Buenos Aires is sometimes referred to as "rioplatense" spanish, as in the spanish spoken in the Rio de la Plata region. This is about as far as my 21 credits of college Spanish got me.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Dickhead
05-28-08, 20:55
"Vos" is used in Uruguay as well (note that RH already posted that but I was still in the process of posting and he beat me to it). In fact when I was in Medellín, Colombia, I heard it and was surprised. I was told that it is trendy or popular there. I went back and looked at my notes from my last Spanish class that I took in 2003 and it said the same thing: young people use the "voseo" in various places in Latin America to be, like, "hip." My notes say that Chile is another place this occurs but I have spent a fair amount of time there and have never heard "vos."

A mansion guest was taking tango lessons and his Argentinean profesora always used "tu" with me. I asked her why she did not use "vos" and she got a disgusted look on her face and said (in English) that she was better educated than that. I never liked her too much anyway and I liked her less after that.

Now let's get into "vos" vs. "usted." I was always taught, when in doubt use usted. Use usted with your boss, use usted until invited to do otherwise, use usted with your elders (who are becoming fewer and fewer! Then I also heard that usted is not used as much here in Argentina (or at least Buenos Aires) as this is a more informal culture.

At this point I find I seldom use usted and I habitually use vos. I will use usted with older people and it is an effort to remember how to conjugate with it. Roxana the Barber says using usted is "putting up a wall." Becoming aware of this, I notice that in Carrefour it is about 50/50. Some cashiers say "¿cómo está?" = usted and some say "¿cómo estás?" = vos. I have asked Mariana (our maid) several times to use vos with me ("vamos a tutearnos") and she nods but never, ever uses it with me. I guess for a servant to use "vos" is a bad thing but I am not her boss (Capt. Dave is and I doubt he is an "usted" kind of guy). I even told her I was "común y corriente" but she sticks sedulously with usted.

With Rosa María, if I would accidentally use an usted form like "Disculpe" instead of "Disculpame" when I belched, she would not like that at all and would say "Me alejás."

Aqualung? Andrés? Bueller? Bueller?

Aqualung
05-28-08, 21:12
In the interest of getting the title of this thread correct, let me pose this question:

I understood (probably incorrectly) that two distinctive differences between Spanish and Castellano was the pronunciation of the double "LL" in that in Spanish the "LL is pronounced as "y" sound and in Castellano it is pronounced as an "s" sound, and also the use of "Vos" vs "Tu".

I have never heard the "LL" pronounced as a "S" or heard "Vos" used instead of "Tu' anywhere in any spanish country except Argentina, and I have often heard Argentinos refer to their language as "Castellano".

First, am I accurately identifying these two distinctions as being unique to the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Second, if the term "Castellano" is interchangeable with the term "Spanish:", then what is the correct name of the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Thanks,

JacksonLook at it like this - In the US you speak English, a British language different from Welsh or Gaelic. In Argentina we speak Castellano, a Spanish language different to Catalan or Gallego.

The English you speak in the US is different to the English spoken in England so to mark the difference we say American English so the Castellano spoken in Argentina is different therefore we can call it Argentine Castellano.

MCSE
05-28-08, 23:08
In the interest of getting the title of this thread correct, let me pose this question:

I understood (probably incorrectly) that two distinctive differences between Spanish and Castellano was the pronunciation of the double "LL" in that in Spanish the "LL is pronounced as "y" sound and in Castellano it is pronounced as an "s" sound, and also the use of "Vos" vs "Tu".

I have never heard the "LL" pronounced as a "S" or heard "Vos" used instead of "Tu' anywhere in any spanish country except Argentina, and I have often heard Argentinos refer to their language as "Castellano".

First, am I accurately identifying these two distinctions as being unique to the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Second, if the term "Castellano" is interchangeable with the term "Spanish:", then what is the correct name of the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Thanks,

JacksonJackson: The official language spoken in Argentina is Castellano. Kids in school are teached to say Yo, Tu, El. But, the informal it's "vos".

The variation which does not reachs the level of "dialect" it's "porteño", and includes the "vos", the pronunciation of the "ll" and "why" as a kind of "sh", like "sho" instead of "Io". To say "I".

There is however a dialect, the "lunfardo", a real dialect, but it's more used in the lyrics of some tangos, for example, "Gira, Gira":

"Cuando rajes los tamangos.

Buscando este mango.

Que te haga morfar."

This extract of text would not be understood by a "castellano" (the official name for spanish) speaker. So it's a dialect.

ps: link to the full lyrics of the "Yira, Yira" tango song http://www.nomorelyrics.net/es/song/283304.html
ps#2: The more cohomprensive explanation in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castellano

Guiller
05-29-08, 00:49
Castellano was the language spoken in the reign of Castilla and Aragon in Spain during the time of Columbus trip in 1492. Other languages were also spoken: catalan in Catalunia, gallego in Galicia, vasco in the Vasque country, etc. Those languages are alive and spoken today. The political unification of the different kingdoms of Spain under Isabel the Catholic (queen of Spain at the time) enforced the adoption of an official language for the kindom of Spain, and castellano was chosen for the reason of being the language of the monarchs.

So, the name "español=spanish" doesn't mean anything in Spanish, at least for people who know that this would mean "the language of Spain", because a term like this ignores the fact that even today there is not such a thing. Go to Catalunia and tell me if they speak "Spanish" there. Therefore, spanish is mainly a term used by non-spanish speaking people to refer to castellano. What about some latin-american countries? Well, that's up to each country educational system. Countries with stronger ties to Europe use "castellano" because they are concious about history. Other latin american countries, closer to the US (geographic and culturally) get their culture strongly modified by the US's views on everything, including their lack of knowledge of Spanish history and therefore use the word "español" to refer to castellano, which is therefore an anglicism.

In English, it's Spanish. In Spanish, castellano. It's not a dialect spoken in Argentina.

All the best

PS: the Wikipedia article gives a good discussion on this point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language

Naming and origin

Main article: Names given to the Spanish language

Spaniards tend to call this language español (Spanish) when contrasting it with languages of other states, such as French and English, but call it castellano (Castilian), that is, the language of the Castile region, when contrasting it with other languages spoken in Spain such as Galician (gallego; native name: galego), Basque (euskara), and Catalan (catalán; native name: català) (known as Valencian in the Valencian Community). This reasoning also holds true for the language's preferred name in some Hispanic American countries. In this manner, the Spanish Constitution of 1978 uses the term castellano to define the official language of the whole Spanish State, as opposed to las demás lenguas españolas (lit. the other Spanish languages). Article III reads as follows:

“ El castellano es la lengua española oficial del Estado. (…) Las demás lenguas españolas serán también oficiales en las respectivas Comunidades Autónomas…

Castilian is the official Spanish language of the State. (…) The other Spanish languages shall also be official in their respective Autonomous Communities…”

The name castellano is, however, widely used for the language as a whole in Latin America. Some Spanish speakers consider castellano a generic term with no political or ideological links, much as "Spanish" is in English. Often Latin Americans use it to differentiate their own variety of Spanish as opposed to the variety of Spanish spoken in Spain, or variety of Spanish which is considered as standard in the region.[citation needed]

AllIWantIsLove
05-29-08, 00:49
. Some cashiers say "¿cómo está?" = usted and some say "¿cómo estás?" = vos. Is this issue further complicated by dropping of a final s sound? I once stayed on Rodriguez Peña and everytime I heard it pronounced it sounded like "Rodrigue Peña". I think that someone explained to me that final s sounds, I. E. S and z, were usually dropped. I often think that I even hear me gusta as "me gu'ta".


. When I belched, she would not like that at all and would say "Me alejás." Would you explain the grammar of "me alejás"? In context I'd expect it to mean "get away from me." But "me alejás" is not a command, is it? (I'd expect alejame (tu) or alejeme (usted) - not sure about accents; and the vos form would also be alejame but maybe with an accent different from the tu form. But. I'm asking because my command of commands is pretty weak.

Gracias, Bob

AllIWantIsLove
05-29-08, 01:13
<snip> So I had a non-productive discussion about "hecha la ley" with Mariana. <snip> If you are not already aware of it, this (http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23) is a pretty good place to discuss Spanish grammar questions.

Bob

Schmoj
05-29-08, 01:14
In English, it's Spanish. In Spanish, castellano. It's not a dialect spoken in Argentina. Everything you say is accurate, but almost without exception, Argentines refer to what they speak as 'Castellano' as opposed to 'Español.'

On the other hand, a Catalan will correct you for calling Spanish 'Español.' It's Castellano.

AllIWantIsLove
05-29-08, 02:00
<snip> So now I want to know why, when I tell people dinner is ready, they say "voy" (I am going) instead of "vengo" (I am coming) <snip> Here's what I found online (http://my.spanishdict.com/forum/topic/show?id=1710195%3ATopic%3A110150)

"Ir and venir do not map perfectly to go and come. In Spanish, ir is always used to refer to moving away from the subject's current location, and venir to refer to moving toward the subject's current location. So when Lalo says "I'm coming" (Ya voy) in my example, he uses ir because he is moving away from his current location toward his mother. This actually makes perfect sense when you think about it, and English is the illogical one in this case."

I think that the writer may be saying "subject" when he means "speaker."

This topic has also been discussed on Word Reference (see one of my other posts) but in Spanish.

Bob

Dickhead
05-29-08, 14:17
Would you explain the grammar of "me alejás"? In context I'd expect it to mean "get away from me." But "me alejás" is not a command, is it? (I'd expect alejame (tu) or alejeme (usted) - not sure about accents; and the vos form would also be alejame but maybe with an accent different from the tu form. But. I'm asking because my command of commands is pretty weak.

Gracias, BobIt is second person indicative. She was saying I was pushing her away by using Ud.

Rockin Bob
05-31-08, 20:56
In the interest of getting the title of this thread correct, let me pose this question:

Second, if the term "Castellano" is interchangeable with the term "Spanish:", then what is the correct name of the dialect spoken in Argentina?

Thanks,

JacksonJackson, Rock Harders has the answer to your question. Rioplatense is the dialect spoken in the area around the Rio de la Plata. There's an article on Wikipedia that has all the gory details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rioplatense_Spanish

To throw in my two cents: yes, it's true most Spanish speakers from other countries think the pronunciation of Rioplatense is strange, but for anyone who knows Portuguese, it's not strange at all. It's just Spanish with a Portuguese twist. For example, take the word for "rain:"

Language Spelled Pronounced

Castellano lluvia you-via

Rioplatense lluvia shoo-via

Portuguese chuva shoo-va

Also, "you" in Portuguese is "você" so vos seems perfectly normal as well.

There's a Wikipedia article on voseo as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voseo

I suspect this all goes back to the way Spanish was spoken a long time ago. Seems Spanish and Portuguese and the other similar languages on the Iberian peninsula evolved from some common source. I don't know for sure.

For anybody's who's interested, the Real Academia Española was founded in 1713: in 1714 King Philip V gave the royal stamp of approval and supplied the mission statement: limpia, fija, y da esplendor: clean it up, agree on a standard, and make it beautiful. I know everytime I speak anything in Spanish Philip turns over in his grave. I'm sorry.

They have the definitive online Spanish dictionary here:

http://www.rae.es/rae.html

One last thing: for you Windows users, there's a Text Services and Input Language box somewhere that lets you adapt your keyboard to write the accents and tildes and upside-down question marks you need for correct Spanish. They don't seem to have maps of the keyboards, but they're easily found online.

Hey, you leave out the accent, the Real Academia will tell you the word doesn't exist. At least they suggest the alternative you're looking for. They're orthodox, what can I say.

Hey Dickhead! The other day in Carrefour the cashier asks me, ¿Tendría 30 centavos? Man, if you're Rodney Dangerfield, your whole shtick would be ruined.

Also, to get really really picky, dissection is performed on dead bodies: Spanish ain't dead yet, it's in the top five languages most spoken in the world.

Enough, back to mongering.

Guiller
05-31-08, 21:28
Everything you say is accurate, but almost without exception, Argentines refer to what they speak as 'Castellano' as opposed to 'Español.'

On the other hand, a Catalan will correct you for calling Spanish 'Español.' It's Castellano.Sorry, this is what I meant.

Castellano is the correct name for the Spanish language in Spanish. What could be confusing to some English speakers is that in some Latin American countries like Costa Rica, Mexico, and other under a very strong cultural influence of the US, these Spanish speakers reffer to their language as "español", which is incorrect (it's a anglicism, a literal translation from English of an word that already exists in Spanish) In Spain nobody, with the exception of youngsters, that might be more exposed to those foreing incorrect terminology, would call Spanish as "español".

All the best

Guiller
05-31-08, 21:39
The variety of Spanish spoken in Argentina is not a dialect. In fact there are several "accents" according to the geographical region of the country. What some people may identify as a dialect is "lunfardo", a sort of argot, or cockney spoken by the outlaws at the beginning of the century to bypass the police. This argot ws heavily used by tango composers because the characters of the music are actually most of the time belonging to that social segment. Here there is an article on lunfardo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunfardo

Returning to the local accent in Buenos Aires, there are some sound that are characteristc and reflect the local history: some italian words (cucha, bochar, etc) due to the massive italian inmigration at the beginning of the XXth century, the "sh" sound for the "ll", a heritage from brazilian Portuguese, and so on. Not very different from local accents in other very large cities around the world.

The way people use and pronunce words of a language is a direct reflection of a particular evolution dictated, ultimatley, by the history of its society. I would give more importance to the grammar, which is the strong structure behind any language. What I enjoy the most about Spanish (which is the same in French and Italian) is the palette of verbal tenses to reflect different situations (badly used by speakers, but masterfully done by writers like Borges or Cortazar, who wrote an entire story exploting the ambiguity of the tacit subject, a bona-fide resource in Spanish and othe Romance languages).

All the best

Dickhead
06-01-08, 01:23
Sorry, this is what I meant.

Castellano is the correct name for the Spanish language in Spanish. What could be confusing to some English speakers is that in some Latin American countries like Costa Rica, Mexico, and other under a very strong cultural influence of the US, these Spanish speakers reffer to their language as "español", which is incorrect (it's a anglicism, a literal translation from English of an word that already exists in Spanish) In Spain nobody, with the exception of youngsters, that might be more exposed to those foreing incorrect terminology, would call Spanish as "español".

All the bestWell, according to the Real Academy to which you refer, both names for the language are equally correct and they are synonyms. And, I bet people in Latin America are tired of Spain, the former colonial power, (is that where you are from?) telling them what to call their language.

Guiller
06-01-08, 02:46
Well, according to the Real Academy to which you refer, both names for the language are equally correct and they are synonyms. And, I bet people in Latin America are tired of Spain, the former colonial power, (is that where you are from? Telling them what to call their language.The Real Academy is accepting all terms that became used, regardless of their grammatical correctness. In this case, I gave you a clear reason for this: it's the US influence on Caribbean countries and its expansion via the media and the low-cost translations made in Mexico for the entire latin American contries, that actually have totally different accents. Do you need examples? There are many. I infer that Mexican translators study much more English than Spanish, because they don't seem to have ever read any books in Spanish for their lack of knowledge of many preexisting words in Spanish, that they simply made up for the ocasion. For example, the wrong use of the potential mode, which is has a different usage in Spanish as compared to English. Another is the wrong usage of a given verb, like "influenciar" istead of the correct "influir", and you guess were is it coming from. Other examples include literal transaltions from English that don´t make sense in Spanish. Very soon they will say "caer en amor" instead of "enamorarse" or "lo aprendi de corazon" instead of "lo aprendi de memoria".

By the way, Spain a colonial power might be an issue in Mexico, not in countries like Argentina, whose population has lots of recent inmigration from Spain and therefore the views of that country are much more affectionate. Simply try to follow the logic, and I gave you the good reasons based on history. The Real academy is now accepting terms that some years ago were considered wrong becase of their violation of the grammar rules, but in the last 15 years (after Globalization started) they changed completely their policy and now they behave as in a TV reality show (whatever a sufficiently large mass of users of a language use is OK) I guess the next step is the populistic approach to sciences: whatever the majority believes is what Nature does.

If you are really interested in appreciating the subtleties of Spanish as a powerful language you should try to read a short story by Cortazar, a real whizzard of castellano.

All the best

Dickhead
06-01-08, 15:24
Well, that makes a lot of sense since the English language is being constantly "dumbed down" as well. You want another silly translation, my nephew just got taught that "adresa" was just as good as "dirección." Similarly you have Argentineans talking about "el living" as opposed to "la sala." Right now I am reading Gabriel García Márquez in Spanish (extremely difficult for me) with the English translation for reference; the translator is American and maybe I will find some more examples. Of course he is neither Spanish nor Argentinean nor Méxican, although I do believe he has lived more years now in México than he did in his native Colombia. His Spanish is very beautiful. I just finally finished reading Robinson Crusoe in Spanish and that translator was Spanish. Thus I had to deal with the preterite subjunctive (which I did not recognize as such until I saw it a couple of times) as well as "hubiese" in place of "hubiera." But that was good for me.

El Perro
06-01-08, 16:07
Slightly off topic, but funny. I was watching an old Preston Sturges movie from the 40's the other night. Early on there is a scene where a down and out fellow in a bar is complaining about the sad music the band is playing. He remarks to the bartender,"Why can't they play something more gay?" The subtitled translation was, "Why can't they play something more homosexual?". Maybe a little confusing to some argentinos who might have been watching.

Guiller
06-01-08, 16:43
I remeber several examples of movies dubbed from English into Spanish (in Mexico) and from their translation I can infer what the original expression was:

"Vamos a los viñedos de Marta" (" Let's go to "Martha's Vineards") and the following scene you don't see any grapes, of course, but a beach. Nobody seems to worry about this lack of logic. Same movie, later: "Nos encontraremos en el bar "China Azul"", for "Let's meet at the "China blue" bar". Porcelana seems to be a word unknown to the translators. Every day I discover lots of these silly transaltions. The sad fact is those people bad as they are in their jobs are probably making much more money than me.

All the best

Aqualung
06-03-08, 22:30
Guiller - these silly translations get even worse when it's from British English. "He bent to pick a dog-end" (cigarette butt) translated to "Se agachó a leventar un perro caliente" - And one of the most senseless one I have seen "He lit a fag" (cigarette) - "Prendió un cansancio". Whoever did the translation must have heard found "exhaustion" as the meaning in some dictionary. - At least he didn't translate it as "Prendió un puto"!

As you say. These people are probably making a pile of money for this crap. I can understand leaving out something to make a conversation fit into two lines but has anyone noticed here how they almost never get the numbers right. I have seen hundreds of idiotic examples like "four" being translated as "seis" or things like that.

Dickhead
06-03-08, 23:13
I haven't noticed anything as blatant as 6 = 4 but I notice they don't maintain the genders of doscientos / doscientas and so forth; for example the other night I saw "una fiesta para doscientos personas."

Guiller
06-03-08, 23:40
I haven't noticed anything as blatant as 6 = 4 but I notice they don't maintain the genders of doscientos / doscientas and so forth; for example the other night I saw "una fiesta para doscientos personas."This is wrong. There is no way this bad usage of the language could be justified as a regionalism. Those people should go back to school.

Aqualung
06-03-08, 23:49
And how about the spelling mistakes? Unbelievable!

Dickhead
06-04-08, 02:08
Well, I am not sure anyone can spell any more, in any language. I don't know if that has too much to do with translation. There are some well-educated guys on the board who can't spell, and I know some fairly well educated Argies who can't spell, and I see spelling mistakes here all the time on signs and such. Maybe it is harder to spell in Spanish because of the accent marks? I mean, a word that is missing an accent mark or has it in the wrong place is misspelled, right? We don't have to fuck with that in English. And if I get a text message from a chica, I have to figure out what the fuck is going on because they don't know "be" from "v" and confuse "s," "c," and "z" and "why" and "ll" and there could be an "h" or not. "Estava llendo por aya" is a recent and marvelous chica example and that woman graduated from a "colegio de monjas" (one time she spelled that "monjhas") and went to uni for a while. I have seen aciendo and asiendo and hasiendo until it makes my eyeballs ache.

I still think the best manglishment of Spanglish was when that Brisel posted she was looking for "ready horsemen" when she meant "listos caballeros" or "intelligent gentlemen." But she fucked me anyway, so maybe she really wasn't looking for that at all.

And could a native speaker of Spanish possibly use "¿cuala?" or "'¿dónde es el baño?" as I have heard them do? Of course in the US I have heard such gems as "Where the shitter at?"

One hard thing for a native speaker of English is that in Spanish, if one element in the sentence is negative they all must be; for example "no hay nadie." That would literally translate in English to "there isn't nobody" and that would be really bad grammar. Or "no lo hago nunca," which translates literally to "I don't do it never"; again, very bad grammar in English. I have this down pretty well now but sometimes it still sounds strange to me.

Aqualung
06-04-08, 02:15
True Dick - but the people translating films and so on are getting paid to do so.

Well, anyhow, why should that surprise me - so many chicas get paid to fuck and they often don't do a good job!

:(

Guiller
06-04-08, 12:22
Youngester everywhere in the world don't care much about grammar rules (a mistake more serious than spelling ones, in my opinion, because it can lead to communicating the wrong ideas and therefore makes a language ambiguous and ultimately useless). They tend to write the same way they do in their cell phone text messages. Sometimes, by avoiding vowels they even seem to be paraphrasing Unix! In my opinion, economic globalization will yield a sort of bad quality (I. E, elemmentary grammar, 1000 word vocabulary, etc) yet universal language. Quite in the opposite pole of Esperanto!

One other "new" (that is, started in the 90's with globalization) feature of Spanish is the adjetives instead of substantives (a typical resourse taken from English) .For example, tv journalists say all the time " quimicos" or "electronicos" to refer to "productos quimicos" or "productos electronicos". The real use of "quimico" in Spanish is to name somebody who got a degree in chemistry, not a product!

Guiller
06-04-08, 12:29
True Dick - but the people translating films and so on are getting paid to do so.

Well, anyhow, why should that surprise me - so many chicas get paid to fuck and they often don't do a good job!

:(At lest you can try another girl. But translations are centralized by worldwide corporations (for the case of the movie industry distribution for Latin America, in Mexico) and their bad decisions cannot be modified by external feedback!

AllIWantIsLove
06-06-08, 02:50
<snip> One other "new" (that is, started in the 90's with globalization) feature of Spanish is the adjectives instead of substantives (a typical resourse taken from English) <snip> My Spanish is pretty rudimentary so I will not disagree. But my old text book, copyright 1978, says "Adjectives may be used as nouns with a definite article or a demonstrative adjective."

Bob

Guiller
06-06-08, 09:18
My Spanish is pretty rudimentary so I will not disagree. But my old text book, copyright 1978, says "Adjectives may be used as nouns with a definite article or a demonstrative adjective."

BobA language is a set of rules meant to communicate ideas, feelings, etc with the maximum accuracy. Introducing ambiguities renders a language less efficient and more prone to produce misunderstanding. The rule you quote is an exception, accepted by usage provided that it does not lead to confusion between two communicating people . It can be accepted only when it is clear which is the noun underlying the adjective. I mentioned the case of people with a given profession or activity, which is the default usage of the rule (I. E. You could find it in "Don Quijote" by Cervantes). The uses I was criticizing are literal transpositions from English and do introduce multivaluedness to words that peviously had an unambiguous meaning in this sort of light, not totally correct, usage (acceptable given the above conditions). This is not what happens now and it's a tendency originating in Mexico, from plain transaltion from English, introducing into Spanish an usage that does not work given the different roles that verbs and nouns have in both languages (Spanish focuses on verbs (actions) whereas English does on nouns (concepts) To make a long story short, use of the word "quimicos" to reffer to a chemical substance is wrong and journalists should say instead "productos quimicos" because the usage rule you mentioned applies to the person who got a degree in chemistry ("quimico").

All the best

Dickhead
06-08-08, 00:01
I was fucking this Paraguaya the other night and she used the verb "llegar" to refer to cumming. She pronounced it "jay-GAR" and not "zhe-GAR" as would a Porteña nor "yay-GAR" as would a Chilean, or a Méxican. It almost sounded like the way a Colombiana would say it. Normally I hear "acabar" or "terminar" here.

So I discussed this with another Paraguaya today and she confirmed they use it there, and said "gallegos" (Spaniards) use "venir." She did not know, and was surprised to hear, that Spaniards use "coger" the way Argies use "agarrar." I told her that in Spain you could coger a colectivo and she thought that was hilarious.

Blitz
06-08-08, 15:29
Dickhead:

Here some language tips:

Instead of "llegar" better to use "acabar" in Argentina.

In Spain is "correrse". Example: Correrse entre sus tetas (Cumming between her tits)

Blitz.


I was fucking this Paraguaya the other night and she used the verb "llegar" to refer to cumming. She pronounced it "jay-GAR" and not "zhe-GAR" as would a Porteña nor "yay-GAR" as would a Chilean, or a Méxican. It almost sounded like the way a Colombiana would say it. Normally I hear "acabar" or "terminar" here.

So I discussed this with another Paraguaya today and she confirmed they use it there, and said "gallegos" (Spaniards) use "venir." She did not know, and was surprised to hear, that Spaniards use "coger" the way Argies use "agarrar." I told her that in Spain you could coger a colectivo and she thought that was hilarious.

Stan Da Man
06-12-08, 19:38
Hey all:

I've got a couple of questions and hope this is the right thread for them. I'll be down there next week and speak broken, generic Spanish. Any help on the following would be appreciated.

First, I know they pronounce the "y" and "ll" sounds differently in Buenos Aires. Are they both pronounced the same? And, is the sound like "sh" or more like "zh"?

Second, can anyone recommend a good tutoring service and / or school for the afternoons (assuming one exists) My mornings are pretty full, but I'd like to practice the language a bit with someone who knows what they're doing. I struggle particularly with conjugation and pronouns.

Third, I've got a side project I've been working on for a while involving audio training. At present, I'm trying to figure out whether it makes sense to offer the training in Spanish. (Most of the training is used in California and the user base includes a heavy percentage of native Spanish speakers. I have a number of hour-long training "scripts" -- usually about 60 pages or so long, all of which are in English. Would it make sense to look for some service in Buenos Aires to translate them to Spanish, or is the dialect sufficiently different from the predominantly Mexican-Spanish in California? Obviously, the exchange rate would help, but if the output is useless then it doesn't do me much good.

Just looking for input from some on this board who seem to have a good grasp on these issues. Thanks

Yujin
06-12-08, 23:32
I don't have any personal knowledge of this private tutor, but she might be someone who might be able to help you.

http://www.gabrielaferrante.com.ar/

You could also roll-the-dice and try Craigslist. I found my current Spanish teacher on Craigslist (but not in BA). I'd ask for a free lesson to determine if the tutor's teaching style and skills meet your expectation before paying for any lessons.

http://buenosaires.en.craigslist.org/lss/

I had this site bookmarked. It might be of some interest to you:

http://www.baexpats.com/article17.html?39b1cfa3b47959fbf9a4b63902466896=8365c5272eead92b946b4472531deac2

I took private lessons at IBL in the afternoon for 2 hours a day. It was cheaper than most other schools, but I had an excellent teacher. She spoke with an English accent and reminded me of the British actress Minnie Driver (spelling?)

http://www.ibl.com.ar/ingles/SC_SpanishCourses3methodology.asp

Dickhead
06-13-08, 05:29
Definitely you would not want to use Argentinean translators in this case as the differences between the way Argentineans speak Spanish / Castellano, as opposed to other Spanish speakers, are very significant. That is even more true in an "audio" situation.


I've got a side project I've been working on for a while involving audio training. At present, I'm trying to figure out whether it makes sense to offer the training in Spanish. (Most of the training is used in California and the user base includes a heavy percentage of native Spanish speakers. I have a number of hour-long training "scripts" -- usually about 60 pages or so long, all of which are in English. Would it make sense to look for some service in Buenos Aires to translate them to Spanish, or is the dialect sufficiently different from the predominantly Mexican-Spanish in California? Obviously, the exchange rate would help, but if the output is useless then it doesn't do me much good.

Just looking for input from some on this board who seem to have a good grasp on these issues. Thanks

Daddy Rulz
06-17-08, 12:44
Son on Fathers day I wanted to call my buddy that lives down there and wish him a good one. As I was calling I had one of those strange random thoughts I am noted for, I wanted to wish him a happy mother fuckers day, as all fathers, or most anyway are motherfuckers by definition. I read an article once that said about 8% of them had not been motherfuckers but rather the guy that supported the mother who was fucking somebody else, but that is tangential and not important to my question.

As the phone was ringing I started wondering how you would say motherfucker in Spanish. I know this is not a word used down there as it is here, but just for fun I gave it a whirl.

Cojerador de la madre? That would be logically and literally fucker of the mother. Or does motherfucker imply you fuck your own mother hence cojerador de tu madre? The second seems more like an insult, a very grave insult, that might necessitate assuming a hasty self defense posture. Obvio en Mexico joderador.

Native speakers or DH do I get a gold star to take home to mommy?

BadMan
06-17-08, 15:44
Booo this maaaaan.

Regards,

BM.


Son on Fathers day I wanted to call my buddy that lives down there and wish him a good one. As I was calling I had one of those strange random thoughts I am noted for, I wanted to wish him a happy mother fuckers day, as all fathers, or most anyway are motherfuckers by definition. I read an article once that said about 8% of them had not been motherfuckers but rather the guy that supported the mother who was fucking somebody else, but that is tangential and not important to my question.

As the phone was ringing I started wondering how you would say motherfucker in Spanish. I know this is not a word used down there as it is here, but just for fun I gave it a whirl.

Cojerador de la madre? That would be logically and literally fucker of the mother. Or does motherfucker imply you fuck your own mother hence cojerador de tu madre? The second seems more like an insult, a very grave insult, that might necessitate assuming a hasty self defense posture. Obvio en Mexico joderador.

Native speakers or DH do I get a gold star to take home to mommy?

Aqualung
06-17-08, 15:50
As the phone was ringing I started wondering how you would say motherfucker in Spanish. I know this is not a word used down there as it is here, but just for fun I gave it a whirl.As you say, it's not used here but it would be "Coje madres" and not "cojedor de madres" like cocksucker is "chupa pijas" and not "chupador de pijas"

Daddy Rulz
06-18-08, 00:39
As you say, it's not used here but it would be "Coje madres" and not "cojedor de madres" like cocksucker is "chupa pijas" and not "chupador de pijas"Why boo Bad? All of my Spanish teachers have told me that it is important to try and think in Spanish. How can I begin to think in Spanish if I'm not at least thinking about Spanish.

I thought it was a valid question and AL was kind enough to answer.

Raspberrys to Bad!

Dickhead
06-18-08, 01:36
On a related question: "chupapija" is a compound noun so those are supposed to be masculine ("el lavaropa, etc.) Does that mean it is "el chupapija" even if the person sucking cock is feminine? I am thinking not since when I asked my friend from Catto's what role Monica played she said, "La chupapija de Pancho." But then at that point she only had a 7th grade education. Now I think it is up to 9th grade.

Aqualung
06-18-08, 03:09
On a related question: "chupapija" is a compound noun so those are supposed to be masculine ("el lavaropa, etc. Does that mean it is "el chupapija" even if the person sucking cock is feminine? I am thinking not since when I asked my friend from Catto's what role Monica played she said, "La chupapija de Pancho." But then at that point she only had a 7th grade education. Now I think it is up to 9th grade.Ella es una chupa pija - el es un chupa pija - The same goes for Ella es una chupa culo - El es un chupa culo

Dickhead
06-18-08, 03:57
So it seems like you are saying those are NOT compound nouns. El and ella are linked to pija which is feminine, and then el and ella are linked to culo which is masculine. An adjective preceding the gender of the noun it modifies, not a compound noun.

Moderately confusing to me.

Next question pertains to the subjunctive. I am in a hotel and I want to walk my dog so I ask the desk clerk if there is a park nearby. My understanding is that since I don't know whether there is or there isn't, I should form my question in the subjunctive: "Hay un parque que este' cerca?"

And my understanding is also that if there is a nearby park, he should reply with the indicative: "Si' hay un parque que esta' cerca."

The textbook says, "The subjunctive is commonly used in questions ... when the speaker is trying to find out information about which he is uncertain." So, I did not know whether or not there was a park. OK. Then it says, "If the person knows the information, the indicative is used." OK, so the clerk knew there was a park.

Now here is what I don't understand. What if there is not a park and the clerk knows this? Part of me wants to say he should say, "No esta' ningu'n parque cerca" because he knows the information. Another part of me says since the park is non-existent, he should say, "No este' ningu'n parque cerca."

Book gives the example: "No hay ningu'n heladeri'a que venda (subjunctive) helado de mango."

Fairly well educated native Argie friend insists the clerk would say "No esta' ningu'n parque cerca." I want to use the subjunctive.

With the subjunctive, I recognize it when I hear it so I try to figure out why it was used. But I have studied the rules until I am blue in the face. I think the clerk should reply in the subjunctive if there is definitely no park. Inexistence.

Discuss.

Mike Cockburn
07-30-08, 12:18
Some words are both feminine and masculine.

Words that ends with "a", shouldn't really be masuline.

It is also strange that the feminine word Pija expresses something as masculine as the COCK.

Un pirata, Un chupamedias, etc.

Spanish isn't a very logical language.

Why the heck would you have the same word for "to pull" and "to throw"

They use the verb "tirar".

Tirar la cadena.

Tirar la basura.

"Sacar" is very ambiguous too.

The subjunctive is hard to understand.

Don't worry. I still struggle with it too from time to time.

I think it is more common to say:

"Hay algun restaurante cerca?"

"No, no hay ningun restaurante cerca!"

"Hay algun restaurante que esté cerca?"

That has a slight a different meaning.

It's closer to "Is there a restaurante that is Really close to here"

Compare.

Busco un libro que sea facil de leer. (expresses a desire)

Hay algun restaurante que esté cerca? (expresses desire)

There might be one, but if it is not really close,

He might say that there isn't any.

You are right, the "negative" answer is in subjunctive.

"No hay ningun restaurant que esté cerca."

It is in subjunctive becuase of the "negation + que + subjunctive".

Like the following phrases:

No digo que sea la verdad.

No es que mi hermano sea un ladron.

No estoy seguro que sea mas barato comer en puerto madero.

Look at this double-subjunctive.

No puede ser que te haya dicho que yo sea un mentiroso.

If you are stating a "fact", you should use the indicative.
It is a descriptive tense.

"No hay flores en el jardin"

"No hay restaurantes por acá"

No hay (ind. Ningun parque cerca.

No hay (ind. Ningun parque que esté(subj. Cerca.

But. "Hay un parque que no está cerca"

But after "que" the subjunctive is often used.

After som verbs like "querer" or in negations.

One learn by asking and memorizing.

The subjunctive is composed of so many rules that it gets confusing.

Sometimes, the subjunctive is even optional.

If you listen good you will notice that the argentinians themselves aren't using it right. Especially, in negations, they forget to use the subjunctive.


So it seems like you are saying those are NOT compound nouns. El and ella are linked to pija which is feminine, and then el and ella are linked to culo which is masculine.

And my understanding is also that if there is a nearby park, he should reply with the indicative: "Si' hay un parque que esta' cerca."

Discuss.

Dickhead
07-30-08, 14:34
"Quiero que" and "para que" will always be followed by the subjunctive.

Quiero que me chupes para que saques toda mi leche. I want you to suck me so that you can take out all of my jizz.

Note the subject change. If I want something and there is no change of subject, it would be quiero + the infinitive. Quiero cogerte. I want to fuck you.

Tika Taka
11-25-09, 23:38
Some really basic stuff.

Yesterday I tried ordering a cup of coffee para llevar, and opened with: "Hola, quisiera un cafe solo, por favor."

The young guy behind the counter looked at me like I just committed a deadly sin, and from what I could understand what I did was not acceptable.

It seemed like he wanted me to greet him, let him greet me, and then I could order.

Did I make a cultural faux-pas by not exchanging polite greetings with him before ordering or was he just being a ***** because he had a bad day / hates his job / something like that?

For example, when I leave my apartment the doorman always gives me the standard: "Hola, que tal? Buen dia!" delivered with lightning speed.

How exactly am I supposed to respond? I figured the phrase was similar to English-speaking people saying "Hello, how are you?" which doesn't actually mean that they're interested in how I'm doing, but are just following "etiquette", so I've just been responding with an "Hola!" and a smile.

They don't seem to be offended at all by my response, but in light of the coffee guy's reaction I was wondering if my responses have been impolite.

Gato Hunter
11-25-09, 23:43
I have started using Che with my portero, seems to work well.

El Queso
11-26-09, 00:50
GH - Che is kind of like saying "hey" (like "listen") or "man" or "dude" depending on context. It's not a greeting by itself. You could respond to your Portero with something like "che, que buen dia es."

Tika -

"que tal" is like "what's up". Respond "hola".

"que pasa" is like "what's happening". Respond "hola".

"como te va" (familiar) or "como le va" (formal) is like "how's it going". Respond "hola" or "muy bien."

When you said "quisiera un cafe solo" he might have thought you were saying "I want a coffee by myself (or alone)" Maybe a better way to say that would be "quisiera un cafe, nada mas." (very common) "I would like a coffe, nothing more."

Or maybe "quisiera un cafe solamente." "Solo" is more like "alone", while "solamente" is more like "only" or "just" or "solely". "Nada mas" is probably the best way to say that here though.

I think the guy at the coffee place may have been a little taken aback, a little off for the day, whatever, but he might also literally have been trying to parse why you were telling him you wanted a coffee alone.

One thing that a lot of people who attempt to speak Spanish and get a puzzled reaction forget about, even when you're sure you said the right words (and particularly when you didn't) - remember whenever you've had a foreigner come up to you and he or she says words, and they sound vaguely English, but you're absolutely dumbfounded at what they're saying. Could be accent that just doesn't allow the word to register correctly, or the ordering or choice of words.

The difference is that a lot of Argentines are not as personally polite as we might expect and the reaction is a little less friendly-feeling to us than we might try to be to a foreigner trying to talk to us.

Tika Taka
11-26-09, 16:34
El Queso,

Whenever I've ordered a coffee I've just said "cafe sin leche sin azucar", and almost everytime they've said "cafe solo?". I understood that as if they were confirming my order. Then after I said "si, por favor" they've said "algo mas?" and I've responded with "nada mas". So I actually thought that "cafe solo" meant coffee without milk or sugar, just in fewer words. I could be wrong about that, and maybe they haven't been saying both "cafe solo" and "algo mas". Even though I've responded with a "si, por favor" everytime I've heard "cafe solo" they've certainly understood that I didn't want anything else.

The guy I ordered from yesterday was almost definitely correcting my manners. It's kind of hard to explain, since English isn't my first language, but I said the line and then he kind of ignored it and I'm almost positive that he was trying to explain - in a kind of rude / harsh way - that I should have said "hola, que tal?", then let him respond and only then could I place my order. If there's nothing wrong with just saying "hola" and then order, I guess he just had a bad day.

MiddleAgeGuy
11-26-09, 18:47
I always ask for cafe solo or cafe negro, never a problem.

What I think may have happened is something I witnessed in a cab ride once in BA. Who ever I was with, immediately gave directions, without some kind of greeting first. The taxista sat there for a bit, did not move and said buenas noches! The passenger responed, then the pedal went to the metal. I think the idea was to be polite before you make a command.

MAG

Clodbuster
11-26-09, 22:32
What I think may have happened is something I witnessed in a cab ride once in BA. Who ever I was with, immediately gave directions, without some kind of greeting first. The taxista sat there for a bit, did not move and said buenas noches! The passenger responed, then the pedal went to the metal. I think the idea was to be polite before you make a command.

MAGI had a similar situation in B. A. when I asked a lady for directions - She stopped, looked at me, then said "Buenos Dias" and nothing else. I then said "Buenos Dias" and asked her again for directions. I thought she was a little over the top to do that, but she wanted me to be polite.

I also attributed it to the "attitude" some Argentinans seem to have - a little egotistical? Wanting more respect than needed? Chilean people say that the Argentina people are "muy frio".

Clodbuster

El Queso
11-27-09, 19:29
Well, I've never heard anyone ask me "cafe solo" when ordering coffee (that I can remember) but I ask for a cafe cortado or cafe negro so I guess I just haven't had that experience. I have been asked if I wanted milk at times.

As far as the Portenos correcting your manners - that's quite laughable on their part, and I guess I wouldn't doubt that that was what was happening as well, as you say.

Portenos are known throughout Latin America (at least - someone else in another thread said in the southern hemisphere, but to me that's maybe too restrictive) as being the rudest, most stuck-up people, hands down. It's not too surprising that they would greet a foreigner with faux politness and be offended that the foreigner didn't respond the way they expected and therefore acted in disdain.

I haven't really had much problems, though, with that kind of issue. I've never had a local respond to me with quietness waiting for me to say "buen dia", but I almost always start off with "hola", as Tika mentioned he did, or even "buen dia" or "buena noche", etc.

Someone who is going to act like that, though, may well find an excuse in something else said or done to give a foreigner a hard time anyway.

El Queso
11-27-09, 21:14
Tika btw - I went back and re-read your first post and realized that part of the issue with my response was I didn't understand originally what you were asking with the "cafe solo" part. I thought you were trying to say that all you wanted was coffee black, nothing more in it; since I hadn't heard the "cafe solo" previously when asking for coffee myself I thought you were saying "I just want a coffee with nothing else like a sandwich".

Amantelondres
11-28-09, 11:56
To avoid any confusion, "quiero un cafe solo" means you want a black coffee. "Quiero solo un cafe" means you only want a coffee. Generally, if you ask for un cafe por favor you'll get a black espresso or if you want a dash of milk it's un cortado and if you want a double ask for doble or un jarrito (little jug) And if it's a waitress and she asks "con leche?", smile, lick your chops and give it to her!

Daddy Rulz
08-24-12, 16:01
Is there a difference here? If I was asking a valued service providor to do something to me Yo quiero una chupa sin forrrrrroooooo. I'm essentially telling her I want her to blow me without a condom, somewhat politly, as opposed to just saying chupa me la sin forro. But if I'm asking a date to do the same thing, does using querer as opposed to gustaria, me gustaria una chupa sin forro por favor mi amorcita, make it more strident? Like in English saying I want you to get me a cup of coffee as opposed to baby would you get me a cup of coffee please?

DavieW
08-24-12, 16:05
Is there a difference here? If I was asking a valued service providor to do something to me Yo quiero una chupa sin forrrrrroooooo. I'm essentially telling her I want her to blow me without a condom, somewhat politly, as opposed to just saying chupa me la sin forro. But if I'm asking a date to do the same thing, does using querer as opposed to gustaria, me gustaria una chupa sin forro por favor mi amorcita, make it more strident? Like in English saying I want you to get me a cup of coffee as opposed to baby would you get me a cup of coffee please?Quiero = I want.

Me gustaria = I would like. (actually more literally..."it would please me")

So the latter is more polite in 'normal' Spanish.

Here in Argentina you'll hear 'quiero' more often than you'd hear it in Spain, simply because they're not very polite here.

Daddy Rulz
08-24-12, 16:18
Quiero = I want.

Me gustaria = I would like. (actually more literally."it would please me")

So the latter is more polite in 'normal' Spanish.

Here in Argentina you'll hear 'quiero' more often than you'd hear it in Spain, simply because they're not very polite here.But here in Argentina is it less polite? Mexicans are FOR FUCKING EVER calling each other cabron with no blood ever being spilled, it's like calling your friend an asshole (as I do with brother dickhead several times a day when we are in proximity) but in Puerto Rico one would never, ever use that word unless one was willing to engage in violence immeditaly. When I'm talking to a friend here do I want to start using gustaria? None of my friends would have taken offence because they know I'm still learning the language but if I'm being rude I would like to stop.

Aqualung where are you when I need you?

Dickhead
08-24-12, 16:28
You can take the stridence out of "querer" by using the imperfect subjunctive form of "quisiera." That sort of means "I would like it if you would like to give it to me." Also,"chupa" is a conjugated verb form and you want a blow job, which is a noun. I would use "chupada." Try: "Yo quisiera que me chuparías sin forro." That's the conditional tense following the imperfect subjunctive, and would translate as: "I would like it if you would suck me without a condom," and it makes no assumption as to whether she is or is not going to do it. Using gustar in the conditional would still be softer but to me would come close to begging: "Me gustaría si me chuparas sin forro." But again you have the imperfect subjunctive and the conditional and so it's not anticipating any particular outcome."Yo quiero una chupada sin forro" is a bit strong in my book but certainly not unacceptable. It does invite a response along the lines of "want in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first" more so than "gustaría," which would be more along the line of opening a dialogue on the issue.

The topic, if you wanted to review it, would be the "conditional of politeness."

DavieW
08-24-12, 16:51
But here in Argentina is it less polite?Yes, it is, but you're right, it's a cultural difference. They are less polite here, but it's acceptable to be less polite. My 4 year old says 'please' and 'thankyou' when he speaks English (as I've taught him) , but never says 'por favor' or 'gracias' when he speaks castellano (as his mother has taught him).

Tiny12
08-24-12, 17:46
Dickhead, I find it perfectly appropriate and even necessary to beg for blow jobs in my ordinary life. However, let's say I'm in a restaurant and trying to show my date that I'm caballeroso. Would it be better to say "Quisiera un vaso de agua" or "Querria un vaso de agua." I've asked this question of several Mexicans. First, they tell me nobody they know would say either. A couple tell me quisiera is more polite, while one or two tell me that querria is better, because quisiera is past tense. What do you think?

Dickhead
08-24-12, 17:54
Quisiera is the way to go. If the sentence has two verbs, then the other verb would be in the conditional: "Quisiera un vaso de agua (si me querría traerlo)." That's a waiter, though. I might say "quiero" there because it's his job to bring it to me. Of course, if I were on a date I would be more likely to use quisiera.

The primary use of the conditional, when it is the only verb in the sentence, is conjecture about the past. Somebody called while you were in the shower."Sería mi hermano." It was probably my brother. So to use querría, you would be saying,"I probably wanted," which makes little sense given the high likelihood that you would know what you yourself wanted.

Daddy Rulz
08-24-12, 18:10
"chupa" is a conjugated verb form and you want a blow job, which is a noun. I would use "chupada." Try: "Yo quisiera que me chuparías sin forro."As you well know I would never disagree with you on spanish grammer. I must say though that this usage is from the, well a, horses mouth. I was talking to a pueblarina friend of mine once discussing the difference between what people say they want and what they actually choose to have. I was expounding at length on the subject of what chicks say they want in a guy and what turns them on. I asked her if she would find it more arousing to have a guy tell her to blow him or have one ask. She said tell. I asked her how to say that. The above is what she said. I asked for clarification and she said it's that command third person imperitivo thingy, using only the word la to identify the object to be chupaed, because it was understood that the gentleman in question would be refering to his peja. Entonces para ella, chupa me la, dale dale, would be her prefered form of having that request communicated. I read people pretty well and as she was demonstrating, her nipples got about half erect so I think she was telling the truth.

Tiny12
08-24-12, 18:34
Daddy Ruiz, I would beg to disagree. This is what works best for me. Si yo me pusiera de rodillas y ladrara como perro, me darias una mamada? I believe that Dickhead is correct and the imperfect subjunctive + conditional construction is essential for this.

Dickhead
08-24-12, 18:42
As you well know I would never disagree with you on spanish grammer. I must say though that this usage is from the, well a, horses mouth. I was talking to a pueblarina friend of mine once discussing the difference between what people say they want and what they actually choose to have. I was expounding at length on the subject of what chicks say they want in a guy and what turns them on. I asked her if she would find it more arousing to have a guy tell her to blow him or have one ask. She said tell. I asked her how to say that. The above is what she said. I asked for clarification and she said it's that command third person imperitivo thingy, using only the word la to identify the object to be chupaed, because it was understood that the gentleman in question would be refering to his peja. Entonces para ella, chupa me la, dale dale, would be her prefered form of having that request communicated. I read people pretty well and as she was demonstrating, her nipples got about half erect so I think she was telling the truth.Sure. What I am saying is "me gustaría una chupa" is wrong. Chupame (which elsewhere in the Spanish speaking world would have an accent mark on the "u", but not in BA) is indeed the second (not third) person, informal command. However, it remains a command and as such I personally would probably not use it with a gal I did not know. Come to think of it, Rosie always said "besame" and not "quiero que me beses" or anything like that. So she was not comfortable using "chupar." Noelia would say,"Quiero que me chupes" but then her grammar is terrible.

Similarly privado girls have asked me,"¿Querés que te chupe (or even "la chupe")?" in BA and not "¿Quieres una chupada (or often "chupadita)?" as I have heard farther north in Latin America.

Dickhead
08-24-12, 18:53
Daddy Rulz knows these gals I am talking about but if I said "Chupame" or "chupala" to Roxana, she would get up and leave. However with Flavia / Florencia from Ness, she loved it when I would say those things or even "agachate yegua" but it is highly situational. Like with Romina it would depend on how drunk she was. But the imperfect subjunctive followed by the conditional is about as polite and deferential as it gets in Spanish. I think a lot of perfectly polite but moderately educated native Spanish speakers probably don't have that construction in their tool box.

WhiteCat
08-24-12, 19:29
Daddy Rulz knows these gals I am talking about but if I said "Chupame" or "chupala" to Roxana, she would get up and leave. However with Flavia / Florencia from Ness, she loved it when I would say those things or even "agachate yegua" but it is highly situational. Like with Romina it would depend on how drunk she was. But the imperfect subjunctive followed by the conditional is about as polite and deferential as it gets in Spanish. I think a lot of perfectly polite but moderately educated native Spanish speakers probably don't have that construction in their tool box.Chupame literally means suck me. It does get the point across but one might want to say it in a more personalized manner just as in English one might say "blow me *****" vs " would you care to favor me with an oral endearment". I guess it depends on the social setting and just how much of a puta you're addressing. Many ways to ask the same question.

Daddy Rulz
08-24-12, 19:42
" would you care to favor me with an oral endearment".This one has certainly made it in my toolbox.

Yeah I wasn't trying to argue with the folks I was asking, just passing on something a native, educated woman told me. She's kind of a S American limo liberal, womans rights chick and as with many of them what they are really looking for, when they are being honest, and I think she was at the time is a caveman to hit them over the head, drag them into their cave, and go neaderthal on them.

Disclaimer; the above is in no way me condoning sexual assault, I am very serious about that.

AllIWantIsLove
08-25-12, 02:04
I'm sure you're right I am just wondering what's wrong with it.

Thanks, Bob.


Sure. What I am saying is "me gustaría una chupa" is wrong. Chupame (which elsewhere in the Spanish speaking world would have an accent mark on the "you", but not in BA) is indeed the second (not third) person, informal command. However, it remains a command and as such I personally would probably not use it with a gal I did not know. Come to think of it, Rosie always said "besame" and not "quiero que me beses" or anything like that. So she was not comfortable using "chupar." Noelia would say,"Quiero que me chupes" but then her grammar is terrible.

Similarly privado girls have asked me,"¿Querés que te chupe (or even "la chupe")?" in BA and not "¿Quieres una chupada (or often "chupadita)?" as I have heard farther north in Latin America.

Dickhead
08-25-12, 12:36
"Quiero que me chupes" is grammatically correct. My point was that one woman was not comfortable with the verb chupar and used besar. Noelia got that one right but I have also heard,"¿Dónde es el baño?" and "Cuál es la problema" from her, so my point is that even listening to native Spanish speakers can lead one astray at times.

Daddy Rulz
08-25-12, 21:19
"Quiero que me chupes" is grammatically correct. My point was that one woman was not comfortable with the verb chupar and used besar. Noelia got that one right but I have also heard,"¿Dónde es el baño?" and "Cuál es la problema" from her, so my point is that even listening to native Spanish speakers can lead one astray at times.Even educated ones. As we (Yankee dogs) mangle the English (just ask Punter) so do they mangle the Spanish.

Aqualung
08-25-12, 23:32
Just try in pure Porteño "¿Me tiras la goma?" or "¿Me sobas el nabo?" You can also say "¿Me haces un pete?" or "¿Me lamas el trozo?". Or if you are really going to be polite to someone who is about to suck your dick you can say "¿Me haces una felación?"

But jokes aside, the word "pija" is aggressive to most women so "tirame la goma" or "me gustaría que me tires la goma" sounds better. The best way is to avoid the word completely so really the best way, and you can't go wrong with this, is to avoid both pija and chupar. "Besámela" or "¿Me la besas?" gets the message over and will never offend anyone.

Now if you have a girl that likes to talk dirty we go back to stage one and just blare out to her "Chupame la pija nena".

Daddy Rulz
08-25-12, 23:52
Just try in pure Porteño "¿Me tiras la goma?" or "¿Me sobas el nabo?" You can also say "¿Me haces un pete?" or "¿Me lamas el trozo?". Or if you are really going to be polite to someone who is about to suck your dick you can say "¿Me haces una felacióand?"

But jokes aside, the word "pija" is aggressive to most women so "tirame la goma" or "me gustaría que me tires la goma" sounds better. The best way is to avoid the word completely so really the best way, and you can't go wrong with this, is to avoid both pija and chupar."Besámela" or "¿Me la besas?" gets the message over and will never offend anyone.

Now if you have a girl that likes to talk dirty we go back to stage one and just blare out to her "Chupame la pija nena".Aqualung, this sort of got side tracked to blow jobs (my fault I shouldn't have used it as an example) originally I was asking of useing quierer as opposed to gustaria was rude. Brother Dickhead as usuall has what I am sure is the correct answer grammatically. I'm wondering about local custom. Would I be being rude if I was at your house for dinner and said "quiero un vaso de agua por favor" to Sra. Aqualung after she had asked me what I would like to drink, or just in general when asking for anything?

I talked to a buddy of mine today and he said it's no big deal but I would score points with anybodies mom by using me trias whatever. (I think I spelling that correctly)

As for BJ's I just suck their pussy until they can't stand it anymore. After that if I have to ask for anything I'm getting dressed and leaving.

Aqualung
08-26-12, 00:26
Talking about BJs is more fun than asking Mrs Aqualung for a glass of water or anything else come to think of it.

But,"Me gustaría" could be considered more polite than "Quiero" which sounds a little more demanding. As in English "I want" is a little more demanding than "I would like". It also depends a lot on the tone of voice and body language. Say "Quiero un vaso de agua" with a shrug and a smile or say "Me gustaría un vaso de agua" knitting your eyebrows and looking stern.

Intercommunication is a complex issue where much more things than actual words come into play. Body language, tone of voice and context where certain vocabulary is used all add up to the fabric and colour of communication. There are no, or at least very few, absolutes. A language is alive and it vibrates. Sticking strictly to correct grammar can limit the experience of interchanging experiences with another reducing a multicolour experience to black and white.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes, you are a foreigner trying to communicate in a language that is not your own. People expect you to make mistakes and say wrong things or things wrongly. What is important to avoid being misinterpreted are your gestures and body language. That makes the difference between being insulting or being quaint.

HelloKitty
08-26-12, 04:48
I love the cute dialogue of my two friends,

THE LOVE, TWO GREAT PEOPLE ARE LIKE TWO CHILDREN.

DADDY RUIZ, AQUALIUM MANY KISSES
ESTOY DE ACUERDO NO IMPORTA COMO LO HABLEN,ES MAS IMPORTANTE LA EXPRECION DEL SONIDO DE VOS CON AMABILIDAD/I AGREE NO MATTER HOW WE SPEAK, is more important exprecion SOUND OF YOU WITH KINDNESS. ;)

Mpexy
10-02-12, 15:27
Anyone with local Argie slang knowledge translate what this mean contextually here in Argentina vs the literal translation? I understand the literal translation but not sure what the slang meaning is.

On foros where guys rate chicas I see this expression a lot. For example. "al final no importa si la minita es una gatita gasolera o una escorts con todas las letras si uno lo pasa bien mariano." Or "un lolita con todas las letras"

And on forums where women are lookin for men, often see in their headline or desired trait. "busco un hombre con todas las letras"

Guessing this is slang for describing a well educated guy or gal but not sure.

Daddy Rulz
10-02-12, 16:37
Anyone with local Argie slang knowledge translate what this mean contextually here in Argentina vs the literal translation? I understand the literal translation but not sure what the slang meaning is.

On foros where guys rate chicas I see this expression a lot. For example."al final no importa si la minita es una gatita gasolera o una escorts con todas las letras si uno lo pasa bien mariano." Or "un lolita con todas las letras"

And on forums where women are lookin for men, often see in their headline or desired trait."busco un hombre con todas las letras"

Guessing this is slang for describing a well educated guy or gal but not sure.It's sort of a superlative. If I tell you that you're a boludo it kind of means you're an asshole (when not used in a friendly context) if I say you're a boludo de todas letras, it means you are a complete 100% boludo. So in this usage I would suspect it means call her you won't be disapointed though there is an outside chance that it means she's a complete professional and the sex will be like that.

The word we also need here is gasolera which I can't find. We need either brother Dickhead or Aqualung for an accurate understanding.

SimpleWrangler
10-02-12, 17:58
The word we also need here is gasolera which I can't find. We need either brother Dickhead or Aqualung for an accurate understanding.Gasolero / Gasolera = cheap

Dickhead
10-02-12, 18:27
SW is correct and the etymology comes from "las putas de las rutas" who sell themselves on the highway off ramps near the filling stations."Con todas las letras" does mean they are looking for a college graduate, or someone with a professional license. That meaning is in addition to the use as an intensifier that Daddy mentions. So my sense is the guys are sort of jokingly saying that it isn't necessary for the chica to be a masajista licensiada like Gisell or that cute paraguaya that used to work at Santa Fe 1126, in order to suck good dick or whatever. They were licensiadas, as was the old hag who used to work with the Talcahuano sperm kittens.

Hope that helps,

Richard Head, AA, BA, MS, CPA, CMA, CFM, RIA

Daddy Rulz
10-02-12, 19:54
Gasolero / Gasolera = cheapOr brother SimpleWrangler, no offence meant by not naming you.

SimpleWrangler
10-02-12, 21:05
Or brother SimpleWrangler, no offence meant by not naming you.No problem. I'm a newby. Thanks for all the great info you post on this board.

Aqualung
10-03-12, 01:48
"Gasolera / o" comes from a "gasoil" or diesel engine which is less expensive to run than a "naftero" (petrol) engine. It can be used in many ways to imply someone or something inexpensive to keep or maintain.

"Con todas las letras" as correctly stated below means 100.

Mpexy
10-12-12, 17:10
I read on local foros how some chica was a "guerra" or provided "guerra" kind of service, and / or how the guy is looking for a chica that is more "guerra"

Ex. El servicio fue bueno pero no es lo que busco, quiero guerra, que me incentive a garchar.

To the usual language pros. What's the contextual meaning of this locally? Someone who is less passive and all over you? Like some chick in heat?

Daddy Rulz
10-12-12, 17:41
I read on local foros how some chica was a "guerra" or provided "guerra" kind of service, and / or how the guy is looking for a chica that is more "guerra"

Ex. El servicio fue bueno pero no es lo que busco, quiero guerra, que me incentive a garchar.

To the usual language pros. What's the contextual meaning of this locally? Someone who is less passive and all over you? Like some chick in heat?Light skinned, wants a white chick with pink nipples. It's usually spelled guera though. Guerra means war so maybe he wants a chica that will stick a bayonet up his ass. We should get Aqualung in on this one because while the difference is small on paper it could prove large in reality.

Mpexy
10-12-12, 18:59
Light skinned, wants a white chick with pink nipples. It's usually spelled guera though. Guerra means war so maybe he wants a chica that will stick a bayonet up his ass. We should get Aqualung in on this one because while the difference is small on paper it could prove large in reality.Take this full post here. This one is from the chica herself describing herself / services. http://www.foroescorts.com.ar/foros/f39/hoy-de-noche-121817/

Sentence here is "Quien quiere guerra nocturna?"

She doesn't have pink nipples but is light skinned. Seems though the context is something else. She's askin here who wants whatever is a night "guerra" and in other guy posts I've seen them write in their xp with a chica as a positive that she was guerra or had guerra etc

Mpexy
10-12-12, 19:09
Got it in a text and no idea what it means.

"No te animas"

Google translate shows it simply as "you dare" but somehow doesn't sound right from context of text I got

Daddy Rulz
10-12-12, 19:30
Take this full post here. This one is from the chica herself describing herself / services.

http://www.foroescorts.com.ar/foros/f39/hoy-de-noche-121817/

Sentence here is "Quien quiere guerra nocturna?"

She doesn't have pink nipples but is light skinned. Seems though the context is something else. She's askin here who wants whatever is a night "guerra" and in other guy posts I've seen them write in their xp with a chica as a positive that she was guerra or had guerra etcNo idea unless it's something like "who wants a war at night." I don't know, we need one of the others on this.

Gandolf50
10-12-12, 19:43
Got it in a text and no idea what it means.

"No te animas"

Google translate shows it simply as "you dare" but somehow doesn't sound right from context of text I gotFrom what I understand is its "I don't feel up to it" or just "I don't feel like it" more or less the same thing really.

Daddy Rulz
10-12-12, 20:04
From what I understand is its "I don't feel up to it" or just "I don't feel like it" more or less the same thing really.But most people say "no tengo ganas" for not feeling up to it. Te here clearly refers to the receiver.

Dickhead
10-12-12, 20:18
'No tengo ganas' = I don't feel like it. 'No me anima' = it fails to excite me, it doesn't turn me on; it's boring. 'No te animas' is not right. Well, I guess if your girlfriend was doing a lousy job of masturbating you might make the observation 'no te animas' but it's a bit of a stretch. Animarse, as opposed to animar, means to cheer yourself up so I don't see why you would suggest your friend not cheer herself up, which means that in the sentence 'No te animas, ' te is an indirect object pronoun and not a reflexive pronoun, and it doesn't make sense to me either way.

Daddy Rulz
10-12-12, 21:49
'No tengo ganas' = I don't feel like it. 'No me anima' = it fails to excite me, it doesn't turn me on; it's boring. 'No te animas' is not right. Well, I guess if your girlfriend was doing a lousy job of masturbating you might make the observation 'no te animas' but it's a bit of a stretch. Animarse, as opposed to animar, means to cheer yourself up so I don't see why you would suggest your friend not cheer herself up, which means that in the sentence 'No te animas, ' te is an indirect object pronoun and not a reflexive pronoun, and it doesn't make sense to me either way.What about the guerra thing, what's up with that?

Dickhead
10-12-12, 21:55
What about the guerra thing, what's up with that?I have never heard that one. I don't think it means blondie, which is 'huera' or 'güera, ' because even Spanish speakers who are poor spellers usually get single r and double rr correct because they sound so different. I bet it means 'loca en la cama, ' but maybe in some particular way that I am not familiar with. I could probably tell by reading some of the local fora but I ain't got time for that right now.

Aqualung
10-12-12, 23:32
¿No te animas? ' It's slightly more than "wouldn't you like?" and a little less than "wouldn't you dare?" Use, for example: You ask a girl to come to your place. ¿Queres venir a mi casa? And she is not in the mood so she answers "¿No te animas a venir a mi casa?" (Don't you fancy coming to mine?)

It's perfectly correct Spanish by the way.

"Guerra" means war and it's very commonly used as a synonym for sex. This comes from the saying in Spanish "Cuando la mujer se pinta, como el indio, quiere guerra". "When a woman puts on make up (war paint) , like an Indian, she wants war" (to put on make up or war paint are both "pintarse" in Spanish).

So "guerra" is used to indicate a more physical, hot, passionate sex. But be careful, it doesn't necessarily mean violent sex.

Dickhead
10-12-12, 23:43
Ok, but what was presented was not a question, but a statement. 'No te animas' as a STATEMENT is not correct under most circumstances. If anything it would be a command and so 'No te animes.' Don't get all worked up. So the OP said he received 'no te animas' as a text, so the chica probably left out the puntas de interrogación. It does make perfect sense to me as a question: 'Don't you want to? ' 'Doesn't it turn you on?'

Aqualung
10-13-12, 00:05
Ok, but what was presented was not a question, but a statement. 'No te animas' as a STATEMENT is not correct under most circumstances. If anything it would be a command and so 'No te animes.' Don't get all worked up. So the OP said he received 'no te animas' as a text, so the chica probably left out the puntas de interrogación. It does make perfect sense to me as a question: 'Don't you want to? ' 'Doesn't it turn you on?'I added the punctuation marks as it is mostly used that way but no exclusively. Example."Vos no te animas a caminar solo por la calle de noche.". You don't dare to walk alone on the street at night. Here, of course, the translation would only be "Don't dare"

Wild Walleye
10-13-12, 00:49
I stick with:

Quanto?

Que no es lo que dice el foro.

Acabo en su boca.

Cola?

Gracias. ¡hasta luego

El Queso
10-13-12, 01:00
Acabo en su boca.So formal for such an intimate proposition? ;)

Wild Walleye
10-13-12, 01:14
So formal for such an intimate proposition? ;)Formal, in formal. I am just trying to avoid being physically attacked at the precise moment that I should be contented.

Aqualung
10-13-12, 02:15
"Discúlpeme señorita por mi atrevimiento pero deseo saber si al momento de mi eyeculación puedo proceder a depositar mi esperma en su boca. ¿O tiene usted algún inconveniente en que prosiga con dicha práctica?"

WW, That should definitely set the rules clear thus preventing you from suffering physical damage at that very vulnerable moment.

Daddy Rulz
10-13-12, 02:30
"Discúlpeme señorita por mi atrevimiento pero deseo saber si al momento de mi eyeculacióand puedo proceder a depositar mi esperma en su boca. ¿O tiene usted algúand inconveniente en que prosiga con dicha práctica?"

WW, That should definitely set the rules clear thus preventing you from suffering physical damage at that very vulnerable moment.Thanks Aqualung, the only problem with your posts is they are too god damned few and far between! Thank you, I don't think I've ever seen that crude question put forth in such an elegant manner before. I'm making a flash card.

Daddy Rulz
10-13-12, 02:31
Ok, but what was presented was not a question, but a statement. 'No te animas' as a STATEMENT is not correct under most circumstances. If anything it would be a command and so 'No te animes.' Don't get all worked up. So the OP said he received 'no te animas' as a text, so the chica probably left out the puntas de interrogación. It does make perfect sense to me as a question: 'Don't you want to? ' 'Doesn't it turn you on?'I'm familiar with the context of the conversation and should have caught that.

Whiskas
10-13-12, 02:42
"Discúlpeme señorita por mi atrevimiento pero deseo saber si al momento de mi eyeculacióand puedo proceder a depositar mi esperma en su boca. ¿O tiene usted algúand inconveniente en que prosiga con dicha práctica?"

WW, That should definitely set the rules clear thus preventing you from suffering physical damage at that very vulnerable moment.Hahaha! Very good one, actually sounds much like my own style but probably I would have said: "Disculpe señorita, sería usted tan amable en permitirme practicar el fino why exquisito arte del bukkake en sus protuberancias pectorales que me recuerdan el Fuji-Yama o mejor aúand, me haría el favor de recibir unas cuantas eyaculaciones en su cavidad bucal para nutrirse con ellas una vez que las haya deglutido? De antemano muy agradecido."

Tr: "Excuse me young lady would you be so kind in allowing me to practice the exquisite art of bukkake in your breasts both of which remind me of Fuji Yama or even better, would you please receive a few ejaculations in your mouth so you can nourish yourself once you swallow. Thanks a lot beforehand".

Dickhead
10-13-12, 12:33
I added the punctuation marks as it is mostly used that way but no exclusively. Example."Vos no te animas a caminar solo por la calle de noche.". You don't dare to walk alone on the street at night. Here, of course, the translation would only be "Don't dare"Yeah, that makes sense. I'd be using 'atreverse' and not 'animarse' there, but then my Spanish is becoming more mexicanized at this point. I once heard 'animarse' in this context: 'Iba a pedirte prestarme plata pero no me animaba. ' I was going to ask you for a loan but I couldn't work up the nerve.

Aqualung
10-13-12, 17:16
Yeah, that makes sense. I'd be using 'atreverse' and not 'animarse' there, but then my Spanish is becoming more mexicanized at this point. I once heard 'animarse' in this context: 'Iba a pedirte prestarme plata pero no me animaba. ' I was going to ask you for a loan but I couldn't work up the nerve.Exactly. That is a perfect example. 'Animarse' is much more common in BA than 'Atreverse' while in most of the provinces it's the other way and, of course, in all the other Spanish speaking countries.

Aqualung
10-13-12, 17:27
Hahaha! Very good one, actually sounds much like my own style but probably I would have said: "Disculpe señorita, sería usted tan amable en permitirme practicar el fino why exquisito arte del bukkake en sus protuberancias pectorales que me recuerdan el Fuji-Yama o mejor aúand, me haría el favor de recibir unas cuantas eyaculaciones en su cavidad bucal para nutrirse con ellas una vez que las haya deglutido? De antemano muy agradecido."

Tr: "Excuse me young lady would you be so kind in allowing me to practice the exquisite art of bukkake in your breasts both of which remind me of Fuji Yama or even better, would you please receive a few ejaculations in your mouth so you can nourish yourself once you swallow. Thanks a lot beforehand".Hahahaha, yes, that's even better but jokes aside (and exaggerations) , Spanish is a much more florid (and round about) language than English. It's very easy for someone learning Spanish to sound rude or abrupt when using phrases that would be perfectly correct in English. Especially when writing letters. Take for example:

Estimado Señor

De mi mayor consideración. Tengo Ud la amabilidad de concederme.

Dear Sr.

Could you give me.

To have said

Estimado Sr.

Puede darme.

If you are not familiar with the person would be taken as being uncouth or rude.

Dickhead
10-13-12, 17:51
Spanish is a much more florid (and round about) language than English. It's very easy for someone learning Spanish to sound rude or abruptSandra Cisneros has a hilarious scene in her novel, Caramelo, where one Méxican spills soup on the other. The process of elaborately apologizing and elaborately forgiving goes on for a couple of pages.

Wild Walleye
10-14-12, 02:49
I miss all of those subtleties.

Sometimes when lacking the skills, one is best served with a blunt instrument.

Dickhead
10-14-12, 03:17
I miss all of those subtleties.

Sometimes when lacking the skills, one is best served with a blunt instrument.I believe this is a classic case of 'Maslow's Hammer': if all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. It can be a bit limiting. But I doubt you put much stock in sociology.

Mpexy
10-14-12, 05:01
¿No te animas? ' It's slightly more than "wouldn't you like?" and a little less than "wouldn't you dare?" Use, for example: You ask a girl to come to your place. ¿Queres venir a mi casa? And she is not in the mood so she answers "¿No te animas a venir a mi casa?" (Don't you fancy coming to mine?)

It's perfectly correct Spanish by the way.

"Guerra" means war and it's very commonly used as a synonym for sex. This comes from the saying in Spanish "Cuando la mujer se pinta, como el indio, quiere guerra"."When a woman puts on make up (war paint) , like an Indian, she wants war" (to put on make up or war paint are both "pintarse" in Spanish).

So "guerra" is used to indicate a more physical, hot, passionate sex. But be careful, it doesn't necessarily mean violent sex.Thanks Aqualung. Makes perfect sense in context now.

Deleted the text but it started out "no te animas." with a period at end so thought that was the whole sentence. Then something about call me and we'll have a good time. She put a period after no te animas so guess that was either typo or mistaken grammar. From you translation sounds like she was texting to say 'wouldn't you like to call me and we'll have a good time'

Dickhead
10-14-12, 05:24
For me it is often a problem that the chicas text and e-mail without regard to punctuation, accent marks, question marks, etc. I dreamt up some exaggerated examples:

Busco una mujer que tenga por lo menos dieciocho años = I am looking for a woman who is at least eighteen years old.

Busco una mujer que tenga por lo menos dieciocho anos = I am looking for a woman with at least eighteen assholes.

Nos encontramos en calle Salguero = let's meet near the Jumbo in Palermo.

Nos encontramos en calle Salgüero = let's meet I forget where but a completely different street. You won't be there and it will be your fault because for sure the chica will not know the difference.

Y el hecho de que nunca usen ni comas ni puntos me moleste y las frases sigan hasta que me parezcan párrafos y la literatura ande lo mismo.

Ever notice how a chica can send a three page e-mail without ever using commas, or periods, or paragraphs? Ever wonder why that is? Go read these latino authors. They write sentences that go on for three pages. Get to the fucking point for Christ's sakes. The whole language is designed in a redundant and repetitive manner, such with the 'echo effect' pronouns. Very inefficient yet very poetic. I kind of like it but it drives me nuts, which is kind of how I feel about Latin America in general, and Spain.

El Queso
10-14-12, 18:38
Ever notice how a chica can send a three page e-mail without ever using commas, or periods, or pariagraphs? Ever wonder why that is? Go read these latino authors. They write sentences that go on for three pages. Get to the fucking point for Christ's sakes. The whole language is designed in a redundant and repetitive manner, such with the 'echo effect' pronouns. Very inefficient yet very poetic. I kind of like it but it drives me nuts, which is kind of how I feel about Latin America in general, and Spain.Actually, I doubt many of the chicas read much of anything but their own SMSs and those that are sent to them.

However, I don't think that was your main point (as far as whether they get their indirectness from reading, as opposed to the culture itself) , and I totally agree with you about the indirectness of the Spanish language and Latin culture.

I took a couple of years of Spanish in high school some 30+ years ago (along with 4 years of Latin. 2 in high school and 2 in college) , and spent a number of years working with Mexicans on labor crews during school summers and later out in the real world. However, in addition to being a young punk during those times, and besides most of those I had (admittedly limited) conversations with back then didn't really allow me to see the difference in how thinking, understanding and acting is affected by culture / language (which comes first?).

Since I moved here and now live about 85% of my life without any English speaking whatsoever (my wife and her family do not speak English) , I have had to up my skills related to Spanish and am much more able to make observations about the link between the language and the culture (still not knowing which is the egg and whether that comes first).

Some time ago I had made mention of exactly this round-aboutedness in the language and the culture to some buddies while we were sitting around bullshitting. To me, this is a sign of what I've said many times. There is no "human" nature when learning how to deal with environment and each other. We learn everything we are, in my opinion, from the culture and language in which we grow up (and of course, more specifically, who raised us). Granted, I've never formally studied human nature, but 50 years, wide traveling, and fluency in at least another language gives me some insight (faulty to others, or not).

In Spanish, there's a whole set of verb conjugations and pronouns to be used in formal situations between one person and another (second-person singular forms). I learned it in school, but never really used it. The Mexicans I was dealing with way back when (and they weren't exactly educated. At all: I remember trying to talk to them about Latin and translating Caesar when I was in high school and I couldn't get past getting them to understand what Latin was!) used nothing but the informal "tu" second person conjugations and pronouns. However, on those occasions when the girls are watching a Mexican novela here and I sit for a moment and watch (mostly painful!) , almost completely the "usted" form is used, even when it seems to me that the two people talking are well-known to each other.

Here,"vos" with the second person informal verb conjugations seem to be used much, much more than the formal "usted." It seems like argentinos mostly got rid of that when talking amongst themselves and strangers. Unless you are perceived in some way of being at a higher station in life (I. E, not an unknown person or acquaintance or formal situation only).

For example, with just about anyone on the street, I have conversations in informal tone. But my portero, or often (though not always!) a clerk in the store will use the formal form.

The other day I was talking to my sister-in-law, who was telling me about a particularly bitchy math professor she has. She was trying to ask her something and the teacher was giving her a hard time. My sister-in-law was recounting what she said to the teacher directly: "le pregunté, porque la verdad no entiendo" (I asked you because I really don't understand). I've never actually heard her use the formal form before and on asking her about that specifically she said,"yeah, we use it with most of our professors because it's more formal and that's what they expect."

What occurred to me after some time was that the second person singular formal form was the same as the third person singular. The quote from my sister-in-law, translated in English without the context of "usted" would be like saying "I asked her because I don't really understand" (but saying that directly to the teacher, not recounting to me). I can imagine a slightly downcast look and not meeting the eyes of the teacher directly in this context as well.

So I started wondering some time ago about the origin of this. It seemed awfully coincidental to me that the formal second person singular form was the same as the third person singular form. Seems to me that this has a lot to do with the more rigid forms between, say, royalty and "common folk" in times past in Spanish culture. I know English has had its forms between the two and these days it is mostly a manners thing. But to me, just this one thing may say a lot about Latin culture and the thinking and acting of individuals in society.

I've often said that latin culture, depending on what country, region, etc, (and I see this extremely strongly in Paraguay between "upper" and "lower" class people) , that there exists a sort of twisted form of feudalism to this day. Almost entirely without any concept of "noblese oblige."

I was amazed, on becoming (at least mostly) fluent in Spanish at the insight into the culture (not just what I'm talking about related to the verb forms, and not just Argentine culture, which is a whole other depth that I've not achieved to a great extent yet) that I received from that ability. A lot of guys who come here and don't speak Spanish well (I. E, not just a few words and "get by") and can't have real conversations with the people, don't understand the people they're talking to on a more basic level. They have no different frame of reference because they can't communicate with them on the level that allows them to see and understand the differences. It may not help reduce frustrations, but it sure as hell can reduce the basic misunderstanding, perhaps, of "why" and "what."

As far as chicas go (as far as SMS messages at least) , though. That's an entirely different world.

"noce xque hiso m amiga x estupedes."

A part of a message recently received by my wife and she had to show me how poorly her friend writes.

Daddy Rulz
10-14-12, 18:53
If I got to the hippodromo and bet on the correct horse I would shout gano! I won. If somebody asked me how much I got paid at my job I would say gano blah. Nuff said

Dickhead
10-14-12, 19:09
Here is what I know about usted versus tu. Usted is much more commonly used in northern Argentina, places like Salta and Corrientes. A lot parents there insists their kids address them as usted (a chaqueña said she would get a whipping for using tu) , which I have never seen or heard in Buenos Aires. In some parts of Colombia (Márquez discusses this; he is from a place near Cartagena) everything gets stood on its head and tu is used from the first meeting, and usted must be earned as a measure of respect. I recommend reading Márquez for those interested in moving from a high intermediate level to something more advanced. I have asked a lot of profs about usted versus tu and it varies geographically, with social class, and over time (we are in a bit of an informal cultural phase right now). Early on, I was taught 'when in doubt, use usted' and I did that for a long time. Then in BA I almost never used usted. Now I use usted with anyone significantly older than me (so hardly ever) or someone in a position of authority like a cop. If I am in some area and I violate the norm for usted, I really don't give a fuck any more. I mean, it is important but it is impossible to tell what is appropriate where. By the time I figure it out I have moved on.

But for sure we used usted with our teachers in high school and in college, always. The ninth grade teacher would just stare at you if you used 'tu' with her. Plus we had to learn all the vosotros conjugations, pronouns, etc, which are only used in Spain. That did come in handy many years later.

El Queso
10-14-12, 19:11
If I got to the hippodromo and bet on the correct horse I would shout gano! I won. If somebody asked me how much I got paid at my job I would say gano blah. Nuff saidYep.

I have one Argentino friend who I would consider speaks fluent English. Even then, when he talks about his salary, he says "I win x per month" instead of "I earn x per month."

El Queso
10-14-12, 19:22
.Plus we had to learn all the vosotros conjugations, pronouns, etc, which are only used in Spain. That did come in handy many years later.Yeah, we learned those forms as well, but I think only over a week or two during the first year, and never visited them again. She told us that the form was never used any more, and I was quite surprised to learn later in my life that it is indeed used in Spain.

Dickhead
10-14-12, 19:40
Well, if nothing else, the vosotros commands are sure easy. Drop the r from the infinitive and replace with d. End of story. No irregular ones. The rest of the conjugations are tongue twisters.

Wild Walleye
10-15-12, 14:52
I believe this is a classic case of 'Maslow's Hammer': if all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. It can be a bit limiting. But I doubt you put much stock in sociology.Does that hammer come with a sickle? (tongue in cheek)


Considering my primary need for Spanish, the hammer and nail metaphor is quite appropriate.

Aqualung
10-16-12, 01:40
The formal and informal form of the second person is common to every language I know and, I suspect, to most languages in the World. Even English. Surprisingly enough 'you' is the formal form of 'thou' which has practically fallen into disuse.

The use of 'usted' in Spanish goes further than just showing respect to elders etc. I use it a lot when I want to keep a psychological barrier between me and whoever I'm talking to even young kids. When I say 'usted' to someone there can only be two ways out for the other person. One is to openly and aggressively disrespect me with all that it implies or the person can assume a passive, respectful position.

As for instant text language, this is also not exclusive to Argentine chicas. It's a phenomenon of this instant (un) communication World we live in. English text messages are full of things like B 4 U Km (before you came). Try figuring that one out if your not a native speaker.

I don't see how anyone can be surprised that a meagerly educated working girl has spelling or grammatical errors when many AP members write atrociously. Of course, booze and Jackson's correction software has a lot to do with impairing our posts! Hahahaha

Finally, languages are dynamic, living entities that adjust and modify due to popular usage. If this were not so we'd still be babbling in some IndoEuropean proto-language with a vocabulary of about 50 utterings to communicate our basic needs and absolutely unable to communicate or to share experiences on a forum like this.

Daddy Rulz
10-16-12, 02:10
The formal and informal form of the second person is common to every language I know and, I suspect, to most languages in the World. Even English. Surprisingly enough 'you' is the formal form of 'thou' which has practically fallen into disuse.

The use of 'usted' in Spanish goes further than just showing respect to elders etc. I use it a lot when I want to keep a psychological barrier between me and whoever I'm talking to even young kids. When I say 'usted' to someone there can only be two ways out for the other person. One is to openly and aggressively disrespect me with all that it implies or the person can assume a passive, respectful position.

As for instant text language, this is also not exclusive to Argentine chicas. It's a phenomenon of this instant (un) communication World we live in. English text messages are full of things like before U Km (before you came). Try figuring that one out if your not a native speaker.

I don't see how anyone can be surprised that a meagrely educated working girl has spelling or grammatical errors when many AP members write atrociously. Of course, booze and Jackson's correction software has a lot to do with impairing our posts! Hahahaha

Finally, languages are dynamic, living entities that adjust and modify due to popular usage. If this were not so we'd still be babbling in some IndoEuropean proto-language with a vocabulary of about 50 utterings to communicate our basic needs and absolutely unable to communicate or to share experiences on a forum like this.What he said

Dickhead
10-16-12, 11:38
Yes, the distance thing is important. I remember once I used the usted form with Rosa María; it was an imperative and I got confused. She repeated the word and said 'me alejás, ' VERY reproachfully. It took me a few seconds to realize what I had done. This is why I won't use 'tu' with my profesora in her office, even though she has invited me to do so. Now to not do so after being invited to could be insulting, so I had to explain to her that I did not want to slip up and use 'tu' with her in the classroom. She said it would not be a big deal if I did and I just said, 'No es correcto' and that was that. Really, she is the only one I have around to use usted with so that is another reason. I don't use usted with my much younger classmates but they sometimes use it with me and when I say, 'Vamos a tutearnos, ' sometimes they don't know what I mean, which is kind of scary at this level.

Whiskas
10-17-12, 02:20
The formal and informal form of the second person is common to every language I know and, I suspect, to most languages in the World. Even English. Surprisingly enough 'you' is the formal form of 'thou' which has practically fallen into disuse.

The use of 'usted' in Spanish goes further than just showing respect to elders etc. I use it a lot when I want to keep a psychological barrier between me and whoever I'm talking to even young kids. When I say 'usted' to someone there can only be two ways out for the other person. One is to openly and aggressively disrespect me with all that it implies or the person can assume a passive, respectful position. .

Finally, languages are dynamic, living entities that adjust and modify due to popular usage. If this were not so we'd still be babbling in some IndoEuropean proto-language with a vocabulary of about 50 utterings to communicate our basic needs and absolutely unable to communicate or to share experiences on a forum like this.Your comment about the second person thou in english is very interesting because I never knew exactly if it was used in old english or it had current use.

Speaking about the spanish usted you might find interesting to know that its use was intended to adress persons who had no titles of nobility in Spain centuries ago. Originally it was not used as "usted" but as "Vuesa Merced" which literally means "Your mercy", then it evolved into Vuested or Vusted and finally as the current form Usted. It has an equivalent in the french "vous" in opposition to "toi".

I understand that it might be too impersonal or even distant in Argentina, but there was a time when it was very common in virtually every spanish speeaking nation. To give you an example a deceased aunt who was a fine writer told me many years ago that when she married she talked to her husband 2 or 3 years (after their marriage) using the usted with him.

At the beggining of the XX century there was virtually no other way of talking than using the usted, with your parents, uncles, grandparents, teachers, etc. It was a must. God forbid you would talk to your father using tú, he would nearly kill you, literally. Me being a little of "Old guard type of guy" still talk to my teachers who are nearly my age using usted as a sign of respect.

In many places if you know somebody and start using tú with them they might feel offended because especially in the provinces it is disrispectful, I actually remember somebody telling another person whom he just met,"Sir, as far as I remember I am not fucking anybody in your family and certainly you are not fucking my sister so don't use the tú on me". I've met some colombian ladies and they use the usted very much, even in bed which is kind of funny to me.

As you probably know in México the greatest insult we can say is "Chinga tu madre" (fuck your mother) and I was listening to this comedian saying: "Mire cabron, ya me harté de usted, chingue usted a su madre (Look bastard, I am fed up of you fuck your mother)" to which the other guy replied "No me falte al respeto (Don't disrispect me)" and the first one says "Ah, no, no, no, chingue USTED a su madre, pero fíjese bien le estoy hablando de usted (No, no, no, fuck YOUR mother as in USTED, but look closely I am respectful because I am using usted).

Some other day we can speak a lot about our very special concept of respect in México, as you can see. Cheers!

Dickhead
10-17-12, 03:04
I think it was "vuestra merced" but yeah, originally used only with royalty. I did a research paper once on the history of "el voseo" and I remember about that history of usted. Oh yeah, and the US $ sign came from the Méxican peso, or to put it another way, México was using $ before the US was.

Whiskas
10-17-12, 03:47
I think it was "vuestra merced" but yeah, originally used only with royalty. I did a research paper once on the history of "el voseo" and I remember about that history of usted. Oh yeah, and the US $ sign came from the Méxican peso, or to put it another way, México was using $ before the US was.Indeed Vuestra Merced is the most utilized form, I recall reading a lines of Francisco de Quevedo who lived in the XVII century utilizing it. Vuesa Merced is not as widely utilized. Regarding de $ sign it has a very interesting history and of course we could talk a lot of mexican reales de a 8 which are known as "pieces of eight" in the American Colonies.

A link to one of my favorite articles of last month:

http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-where-does-the-term-dollar-originate-.aspx?article=4036257984G10020&redirect=false&contributor=Perth+Mint+Blog

Aqualung
10-17-12, 09:22
Your comment about the second person thou in english is very interesting because I never knew exactly if it was used in old english or it had current use.The use of thou is very limited. Certain sayings such as "holier than thou" come to mind. Also in certain areas of Yorkshire and similar you can still hear it being used occasionally. If you ever get a chance to watch some reruns of the sitcom "Last Of The Summer Wine" before Bill Owens' death, his character Compo Simmonite still uses this very quaint form of speech.

Vuestra merced is by far the most common form but 'vuesta merced' or even vuesta mercé come up now and again. As in this comment by Sancho Panza:

"Paréceme –respondió Sancho– que vuesa merced es como lo que dicen: "Dijo la sartéand a la caldera: Quítate allá ojinegra". Estáme reprehendiendo que no diga yo refranes, why ensártalos vuesa merced de dos en dos."

Big Boss Man
06-08-14, 16:18
This is from the notebook of the trials and tribulations of being a non-Spanish speaker.

A few years ago after sex I was trying to tell a that she "had been a very bad girl that night" meaning she had been particularly naughty in the sex play. I said something to the effect of "esta chica muy mala. " The girl immediately freaked out. To which I replied that it mean something different in English.

This trip armed with my tablet and Google Translate, I said "You are having a rough night. " which was translated as "Usted est teniendo una mala noche. " Again it did not translate intention to her as I could tell her feelings were hurt.

Tiny12
06-08-14, 17:40
This is from the notebook of the trials and tribulations of being a non-Spanish speaker.

A few years ago after sex I was trying to tell a that she "had been a very bad girl that night" meaning she had been particularly naughty in the sex play. I said something to the effect of "esta chica muy mala. " The girl immediately freaked out. To which I replied that it mean something different in English.

This trip armed with my tablet and Google Translate, I said "You are having a rough night. " which was translated as "Usted est teniendo una mala noche. " Again it did not translate intention to her as I could tell her feelings were hurt.Where's Dickhead when you need him? I haven't spent enough time in Argentina to know the vernacular, or even the "vos" thing, but "Eres una chica muy mala, muy sexy. Me gusta. " should get the idea across. You've got to say something to let her know that you don't think she's performing badly, angry, etc. I'm not sure whether "estar" would work here. I've heard malo used with "ser" to mean naughty, but never with estar.

For your second point, similarly follow up with something to let her know what you mean. Maybe "Espero que mejore," or I hope it gets better.

Tres3
06-08-14, 18:29
This is from the notebook of the trials and tribulations of being a non-Spanish speaker.

A few years ago after sex I was trying to tell a that she "had been a very bad girl that night" meaning she had been particularly naughty in the sex play. I said something to the effect of "esta chica muy mala. " The girl immediately freaked out. To which I replied that it mean something different in English.

This trip armed with my tablet and Google Translate, I said "You are having a rough night. " which was translated as "Usted est teniendo una mala noche. " Again it did not translate intention to her as I could tell her feelings were hurt.A gringo must be very careful when he tries to translate an every day English phrase to Spanish. Your sad tale reminds me of the time I asked a very nice woman to dinner and she could not go. I thought I would be cute and say to her Tienes un mejor oferta? (Do you have a better offer? After she stopped crying, I asked what was wrong, and it turns out that I might as well have called her a working girl. After that, I made no more phrase translations unless I heard a native Spanish speaker use it first.

Tres3.

Tiny12
06-08-14, 19:00
A gringo must be very careful when he tries to translate an every day English phrase to Spanish. Your sad tale reminds me of the time I asked a very nice woman to dinner and she could not go. I thought I would be cute and say to her Tienes un mejor oferta? (Do you have a better offer? After she stopped crying, I asked what was wrong, and it turns out that I might as well have called her a working girl. After that, I made no more phrase translations unless I heard a native Spanish speaker use it first.

Tres3.Tres, I'll one up you. I asked a good girl, a Mexican, "Te gusta la lengua?" I was trying to ask her if she liked the English language. She thought I'd suddenly switched topic and was asking if she liked cunnilingus. That was when I learned that even good Mexican girls curse like sailors.

As you know, lengua can mean "language" or "tongue". So she thought I was asking her if she liked the tongue.

Gandolf50
06-08-14, 20:39
A few years ago when my spanish was much worse then it is today. I had just spent a pleasant evening with a non pro, a few hours in a hotel followed by a nice dinner with a few drinks. This was the first girl I met in Argentina that did not ask for money or for a "loan" after the deed was done. I was looking forward to seeing her again and asked her when she was free. She told me she had Weds "franco". (Tengo franco Miercoles). I had no idea what or WHO was franco. She had said that she was not married, had no kids, etc. , etc. To me it sounded like she was with "Franco" on Weds. And I could not figure out why she was telling me that. To make a long story short, I never found out when she was free, and I never saw her again. I had no idea that "franco" was a day off and I did not learn that particular word until a few years later. When I did learn what it meant I kicked my self in the a** feeling like a a* You lose some and win some!

Dickhead
06-08-14, 23:15
Where's Dickhead when you need him? I haven't spent enough time in Argentina to know the vernacular, or even the "vos" thing, but "Eres una chica muy mala, muy sexy. Me gusta. " should get the idea across. You've got to say something to let her know that you don't think she's performing badly, angry, etc. I'm not sure whether "estar" would work here. I've heard malo used with "ser" to mean naughty, but never with estar.

For your second point, similarly follow up with something to let her know what you mean. Maybe "Espero que mejore," or I hope it gets better.Yeah, 'mala' is pretty much always negative or pejorative. 'Estabas muy beárbara en la cama esta noche' (you were really wild in bed tonight) would get BBM's point across quite nicely. Now if you use 'malo' or 'mala' with ser, you are saying the person or thing is inherently bad. If you use it with estar, you are saying the thing or person is acting, feeling, or behaving badly at that particular time or within that particular context. A good word to know is 'pícaro' (or 'picara' as the case may be), which means mischievous or naughty. That word is less Argie-specific than 'beárbaro (a). '.

Hope that helps!

Creideiki
01-29-15, 19:43
Time to resurrect this thread! I'm visiting BA in October of this year, and am in the process of learning Spanish. In the course of my Internet searches to find resources to learn the language, I ran across this site:

http://www.hookupspanish.com/

The first post has a breakdown on the difference in the verbs poner and meter. They make the point that poner is "to put on" and meter is "to put IN". They then offer the phrase "Quiero metertela en la boca" as the lead-in for a BBBJ. Seems technically correct, but is it better to go with "chupame" and the chica gets the idea? OTOH, "Quiero metertala" gets the point across well. But that's just my very green interpretation. Any thoughts?

Creideiki.

TejanoLibre
01-29-15, 20:17
Time to resurrect this thread! I'm visiting BA in October of this year, and am in the process of learning Spanish. In the course of my Internet searches to find resources to learn the language, I ran across this site:

http://www.hookupspanish.com/

The first post has a breakdown on the difference in the verbs poner and meter. They make the point that poner is "to put on" and meter is "to put IN". They then offer the phrase "Quiero metertela en la boca" as the lead-in for a BBBJ. Seems technically correct, but is it better to go with "chupame" and the chica gets the idea? OTOH, "Quiero metertala" gets the point across well. But that's just my very green interpretation. Any thoughts?

Creideiki.You Will get your point across but:

"Quiero meterla en la Boca" does NOT specify Her mouth and can end up sounding like you want to put it in Your mouth.

"Quiero meterla en TU boca" leaves no doubts as to who's mouth you want to put it in.

"Chupame. " or "Suck Me. " Not even Please?

A Nice girl may not like that. Manners go a long way.

Have Fun,

TL.

At least you have a long time to learn a little Spanish before you arrive.

I've heard that the Rosetta Stone Program works great .

Daddy Rulz
01-29-15, 20:34
Time to resurrect this thread! I'm visiting BA in October of this year, and am in the process of learning Spanish. In the course of my Internet searches to find resources to learn the language, I ran across this site:

http://www.hookupspanish.com/

The first post has a breakdown on the difference in the verbs poner and meter. They make the point that poner is "to put on" and meter is "to put IN". They then offer the phrase "Quiero metertela en la boca" as the lead-in for a BBBJ. Seems technically correct, but is it better to go with "chupame" and the chica gets the idea? OTOH, "Quiero metertala" gets the point across well. But that's just my very green interpretation. Any thoughts?

Creideiki.Vos haces, bucal sin?

As much as it pains me to say it, TL is correct, manners count. Generally speaking though, the hotter the chick, the more effective bad manners can be. As has been proven again, and again, AND again, if you approach the majority of NP sharks with good manners, they will cut your dick off and throw it on the parilla.

If on the other hand they are smiling when nobody is looking at them it's a different story. I half speak Spanish (the guys think I speak well but it's actually pretty bad) and I get TONS of mileage from saying "I'm sorry, in English I can speak politely but in Spanish I'm often coarse, please forgive me. ".

"Desculpame, en Inglas puedo hablar amable, pero en castillano a vezes soy mas que un poco grosero. " They way I'm telling you to say that isn't really correct, it shouldn't be because you're saying that you're trying to speak Spanish but you don't do it very well or eloquently. The vast majority of the people here give you big points for effort.

Creideiki
01-30-15, 00:28
At least you have a long time to learn a little Spanish before you arrive.

I've heard that the Rosetta Stone Program works great .It's good, but I've read that Pimsleur is better, but much more expensive. I've been using a workbook here for home study, and have found some other resources on the web to help with grammar and verb conjugations. There's also a Meetup group in my city that meets with a tutor once a week, Merce' from Spain, so I'll get a lot of familiarity with Castellano before I go. I may see if she can tutor me privately as well.

I will say that learning the nuances of querer vs gustar in the context of a BBBJ, as seen on this forum, is a lot more fun than my workbook provides. .

Creideiki.

AllIWantIsLove
01-30-15, 10:56
Time to resurrect this thread! I'm visiting BA in October of this year, and am in the process of learning Spanish. In the course of my Internet searches to find resources to learn the language, I ran across this site:

http://www.hookupspanish.com/

The first post has a breakdown on the difference in the verbs poner and meter. They make the point that poner is "to put on" and meter is "to put IN". They then offer the phrase "Quiero metertela en la boca" as the lead-in for a BBBJ. Seems technically correct, but is it better to go with "chupame" and the chica gets the idea? OTOH, "Quiero metertala" gets the point across well. But that's just my very green interpretation. Any thoughts?

Creideiki.I like wordreference.com.

There's a related forum: http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23.

(although they do not focus on sex-talk).

Bob.

Creideiki
01-31-15, 19:47
In a 2-hour group session moderated by Merce', a woman from Spain. I had done a lot of book learning of Spanish, but it did not prepare me for conversational skills at all. I really felt like I was out of my depth. She and the group were very encouraging, but I did not like feeling like I knew almost nothing!

The good news is that I experienced this 8 months before I'm scheduled to leave for Buenos Aires. For anyone else wanting to go and hasn't yet, I would say it's never too early to start on the conversational skills. I'm fortunate that Merce' is trained in Castellano, and I did hear her using "vos / vosotros" forms in her Spanish (I did know that much, anyway). So I'll be better prepared for Rioplatense Castellano than most!

Creideiki.

Shawman
01-31-15, 22:26
My strongest suggestion is to make sure you are learning ARGENTINE Spanish. Out of the Spanish speaking countries I have travelled to (mexico, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, and Argentina), everybody's Spanish is their own. Mexican Spanish is the only one I ever studied, and although I am far from proficient, mexico is the ONLY place my Spanish is even somewhat understood. Everywhere else I might as well have been talking in gibberish for all anybody understood of me. Another point of note is that classes are WAAAAY too formal and rarely teach the kind of Spanish that everybody actually uses. What helps is to try and THINK in Spanish instead of thinking in English and translating. My personal experience is that argies are very unforgiving in this aspect. Whether you use English or try to speak Spanish, they will regard your failure to communicate perfect fluent argentine Spanish, with utter contempt and disdain. But do not let that dissuade you. It may take a few times and a lot of effort, but BA has a lot to offer once you put your scratch in.

Understand that BA has the richest culture, history, and IMHO, the most to really offer, so the effort will be well worth it! The better your argentine spanish, the better your time will be when you are there. The language barrier is steep, and their brand of spanish is very particular. I met a dude at a bar who entertained me with all the regional dialects in BA alone HAHA LOL!

Yujin
02-01-15, 19:46
About 6-7 years ago, I took private Spanish lessons at IBL http://www.ibl.com.ar/ingles/.

I had previously taken lessons in high school and college, but I forgot most of it. When I found the joy of mongering with Latinas, I decided to kickstart my Spanish. I took Spanish lessons at home and immersion lessons in Spain, Mexico, Peru, and Ecuador. I also traveled to Costa Rica, Colombia and Chile to practice my Spanish.

My private lessons at IBL Buenos Aires was interesting. My teacher looked like actress Minnie Driver and she even spoke with an English accent.

In the school, I had no problem with speaking and understanding Spanish; but "street Spanish" as spoken by portenos was a struggle for me. Although I had fun in Buenos Aires, practicing my Spanish with the locals was a bust for me. I'd go back there in a heartbeat, but not to learn Spanish.

Creideiki
02-07-15, 12:54
This looks interesting:

http://www.conversationexchange.com/

Do a search under "Argentina" and "Buenos Aires" and it comes up with literally hundreds of Portenos who want to practice English in exchange for someone learning Castellano to practice that language. That seems very useful for learning some of the idiosyncracies of the language. I'll try it out, and let you know how it goes.

Creideiki.

AllIWantIsLove
02-08-15, 11:21
This looks interesting:

http://www.conversationexchange.com/

Do a search under "Argentina" and "Buenos Aires" and it comes up with literally hundreds of Portenos who want to practice English in exchange for someone learning Castellano to practice that language. That seems very useful for learning some of the idiosyncracies of the language. I'll try it out, and let you know how it goes.

Creideiki.There's no way to find girls who list sex as a hobby! And no way to find girls who are interested in overnight lessons!

And aside from those major flaws I am afraid that it's just not going to work very well. However, I am interested. So yes, please, let us know.

Bob.

Creideiki
02-08-15, 17:03
There's no way to find girls who list sex as a hobby! And no way to find girls who are interested in overnight lessons!Well, one could surmise that sex is a pastime for all of them, surely, without anything being said. I am going to give the obviously married women a miss. Who knows? I'm still 7 months out from departing for BUA, so if my partner and I become friends, I might not need chicas when I get there. .


And aside from those major flaws I am afraid that it's just not going to work very well. However, I am interested. So yes, please, let us know.

Bob.I intend to try it either tomorrow night or Tuesday night.

Creideiki.

Creideiki
02-16-15, 01:49
Ada, from Rosario, messaged me today. Age 50. Have no idea what she looks like, but for conversation practice only I'm not that worried about it. If she does look good, I see Rosario isn't all that far from Buenos Aires. We'll see how this goes.

Creideiki.

TejanoLibre
02-16-15, 03:34
Ada, from Rosario, messaged me today. Age 50. Have no idea what she looks like, but for conversation practice only I'm not that worried about it. If she does look good, I see Rosario isn't all that far from Buenos Aires. We'll see how this goes.

Creideiki.A 9 hour drive Just to try to talk to a 50 year old woman that probably Lacks the correct or proper accent from that of someone from BA?

What for?

Erica is a Professional Spanish / English Teacher here in BA in San Telmo.

I have known her for almost 10 years.

Laura is also a true professional teacher. Spanish. And an excellent dinner date. 10 years of friendship included.

And if you want a SUPER Girl that can help you practice your Spanish and make all the men envious of you then you can meet Costanza!

My All-Time-Favorita!

Museums.

Lunches.

Dinners.

Theater.

Et cetera.

Highly educated, fucking flawless and probably entirely too good for you.

200 pesos an hour and a half of Conversational Spanish should do it. 3 times a week?

If not get on Craig'slist and allow some hooker to bullshit you into thinking that she has NEVER done this sort of thing before in her life and that she is a REAL student!

You have 8 months to learn a LOT of Spanish.

Take a night class! Hire a maid!

Have Fun and Good Luck!

TL.

Dickhead
02-16-15, 22:06
Rosario is way closer than nine hours. You might be thinking about Cordoba or something. I took the bus to Rosario twice and mongered and I think it is like a three hour bus ride.

Creideiki
02-17-15, 00:29
A 9 hour drive Just to try to talk to a 50 year old woman that probably Lacks the correct or proper accent from that of someone from BA?

What for? Maybe because I want to see the town of Rosario and the area, regardless of who I may or may not meet there. I'm thinking of going to Foz de Igauzu by road, and Rosario is on the way. The drive to Rosario looks more like 4 hours, not 9, based on my research.




And if you want a SUPER Girl that can help you practice your Spanish and make all the men envious of you then you can meet Costanza!

My All-Time-Favorita!

Museums.

Lunches.

Dinners.

Theater.

Et cetera.

Highly educated, fucking flawless and probably entirely too good for you. And really, what's a better marketing strategy than insulting a potential customer? I'm good enough for anybody. You should have seen who I was dating last year. Costanza sounds good, and I think I saw her mentioned earlier in this thread, so even with that I'm interested.


200 pesos an hour and a half of Conversational Spanish should do it. 3 times a week? You mean once I get to BsAs, or via Skype beforehand?


You have 8 months to learn a LOT of Spanish. Don't I know it. I'm working on it at least one hour a day, every day. I can now hack out the language, after a fashion, but it's very basic. I want to get better.

TejanoLibre
02-17-15, 03:42
Maybe because I want to see the town of Rosario and the area, regardless of who I may or may not meet there. I'm thinking of going to Foz de Igauzu by road, and Rosario is on the way. The drive to Rosario looks more like 4 hours, not 9, based on my research.

And really, what's a better marketing strategy than insulting a potential customer? I'm good enough for anybody. You should have seen who I was dating last year. Costanza sounds good, and I think I saw her mentioned earlier in this thread, so even with that I'm interested.

You mean once I get to BsAs, or via Skype beforehand?

Don't I know it. I'm working on it at least one hour a day, every day. I can now hack out the language, after a fashion, but it's very basic. I want to get better.I did not even think about "Lessons by Skype" but that would help a lot.

A 4. 5 hour drive to Rosario = 9 hours roundtrip.

Ironically Costanza is from Rosario.

Best looking girls in the country.

And yes, she is probably too good for just about anyone.

Even me.

Good Luck with your Spanish but make sure it's not that shit they Try to speak in Mexico or any of the other Spanish Speaking countries or nobody will understand you.

TL.

Aurora
02-18-15, 04:15
Time to resurrect this thread! I'm visiting BA in October of this year, and am in the process of learning Spanish. In the course of my Internet searches to find resources to learn the language, I ran across this site:

http://www.hookupspanish.com/

The first post has a breakdown on the difference in the verbs poner and meter. They make the point that poner is "to put on" and meter is "to put IN". They then offer the phrase "Quiero metertela en la boca" as the lead-in for a BBBJ. Seems technically correct, but is it better to go with "chupame" and the chica gets the idea? OTOH, "Quiero metertala" gets the point across well. But that's just my very green interpretation. Any thoughts?

Creideiki.LOL! I just read this. Sweety, you will doubtly get a nicely educated girl if you tell her "quiero metertela" or "chupame". You might get some once area or constitucion chicks, I believe they charge 50 pesos for a blow job. Anyway, sometimes you don t need words but romantic body language to get your point across, but if you want to talk, you could say something like this "que hermosa boca que tienes, me encantaria sentir tus labios en un lugar prohibido". That means "you have a beautiful mouth, I would love to feel your lips in a sensual part of my body". You don t translate exactly how it is, because in english prohibido means prohibited, I doubt you tell girls to kiss your prohibited parts like that literaly.

So, you want to tell them you want to "put it in", say something like, "tengo tantas ganas de sentirte y de estar adentro tuyo, podre?" that means "I really want to feel your body, I would love to be inside of you, would that be ok? Again, you don t translate literaly. When changing languages, there are words that you take out and words that you add.

Hope this helped.

Maria.

Wild Walleye
02-18-15, 13:23
Creideik,

As our colleagues have pointed out, the Portena dialect is related to, but quite different from the Spanish spoken in other countries.

I took some one-on-one courses in the States from an upper class Colombian woman. I got some very strange looks when I tried to use my new language skills in Bs As.

My Spanish is terrible (haven't used it in a few years), but I am planning on getting back to it. However, you do not need Spanish to enjoy yourself in Bs As. As for intimate communications, who needs words?

If you are looking to get laid, the most important language skills you will need are to be able to order take out and / or to get buzzed into a building.

The Argentine perspective is that they are more European than South American. It is highly unlikely that you will hook up with an nonprofessional Argentine woman, during a quick trip to Bs As. Argentina reminds me of when I lived in Italy. If you want to date a local, you have to be willing to put in the work to get to know some and see where it takes you. No guarantees. Culturally, Argentina is very old world.

Creideiki
02-19-15, 22:52
LOL! I just read this. Sweety, you will doubtly get a nicely educated girl if you tell her "quiero metertela" or "chupame". You might get some once area or constitucion chicks, I believe they charge 50 pesos for a blow job. Anyway, sometimes you don t need words but romantic body language to get your point across, but if you want to talk, you could say something like this "que hermosa boca que tienes, me encantaria sentir tus labios en un lugar prohibido". That means "you have a beautiful mouth, I would love to feel your lips in a sensual part of my body". You don t translate exactly how it is, because in english prohibido means prohibited, I doubt you tell girls to kiss your prohibited parts like that literaly.Claro, yo necesito mucho a aprender para la castellano Porteno. I am glad I'm looking at learning the particulars of the Porteno dialect now, instead of trying to figure it out in Buenos Aires. Better to make the dumbest mistakes here, rather than there, if I possibly can! I do have one slight advantage over many other Americans. I have danced Argentine tango for the past 2 1/2 years, and that has put me in contact with a number of expat Portenos who would probably be good resources for learning. I would much rather be poetic and clear rather than crass and clear!


So, you want to tell them you want to "put it in", say something like, "tengo tantas ganas de sentirte y de estar adentro tuyo, podre?" that means "I really want to feel your body, I would love to be inside of you, would that be ok? Again, you don t translate literaly. When changing languages, there are words that you take out and words that you add.

Hope this helped.

Maria.It did. Thank you, and it looks like you helped some other guys here!

See.

Dickhead
02-19-15, 23:24
To learn el castellano it is important to remember that the capitalization rules are different. Start learning by not capitalizing 'porteo'. Nationalities, languages, the days of the week, and the months of the year are not capitalized in either el espaol or in el castellano. Also, only the first word in book and article titles is capitalized (To kill a mockingbird and not To Kill a Mockingbird), for example.

So, if you translate: "If I learn Spanish in Argentina from Portenos by taking Spanish every Thursday in June, using the book 'Viva la Lengua' written by Professor John Doe," you get:

'Si aprendo el castellano en la Argentina de los porteos tomando cursos en el espaol todos los jueves en junio, usando el libro "Viva la lengua" escrito por el professor Fulano'.

"Fulano" is like "John Doe" in English, an unknown person, and if you want to say "Every Tom, Dick, and Harry" it is: 'Fulano, Sutano y Mengano. ' Note that in English, the final comma between Dick and Harry is optional, but in el espaol es prohibida usarla (you can't use a comma between the final two tems in a series).

Also, one million pesos is not written $1,000,000.00 but rather is written as $1.000.000,00. Note that the $ symbol can refer to either dollars or pesos, which is confusing.

Creideiki
03-01-15, 16:38
This parody of the Latin hit "Bailando," titled "Cagando," helpfully has the Spanish lyrics as subtitles, so you can get context to go with the vocabulary. After a few views maybe I can get the bathroom parts of the language down pat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHHHDLXTD5c

Creideiki
03-05-15, 18:44
Castellano vocabulary practice and possible cultural insight. I love multitasking!

http://matadornetwork.com/es/15-diferencias-entre-un-amigo-normal-y-uno-argentino/

I'm guessing that greeting new porteno friends with, "Hijo de puta! Como andas?" is not advisable!

Porteno readers, I'd be interested in your opinions on this piece.

Creideiki

Tres3
03-05-15, 19:21
Castellano vocabulary practice and possible cultural insight. I love multitasking!

http://matadornetwork.com/es/15-diferencias-entre-un-amigo-normal-y-uno-argentino/

I'm guessing that greeting new porteno friends with, "Hijo de puta! Como andas?" is not advisable!

Porteno readers, I'd be interested in your opinions on this piece.

See.That might be OK in Costa Rica where "hijo de puta" is acceptable slang, but not in many other parts of the Spanish speaking world, and definitely not BA. I learned Spanish in high school and at the university, so you can imagine my surprise when I first moved to Costa Rica, and the Ticos used "hijo de puta" almost the same as English speakers use hello. I was taught that "hijo de puta" meant son of a ***** in English.

Tres3.

Creideiki
06-05-15, 11:42
....my instructor, Maralina, is actually in Bahia Blanca, but is a Porteña. I want to learn castellano as spoken in the area.

I found this site that goes into lumfardo, including some terms useful for our hobby:

http://www.portenospanish.com/

There seem to be a lot of terms for cigarettes, assholes (the people kind, not the anatomic part), and police!

AllIWantIsLove
06-05-15, 14:05
....my instructor, Maralina, is actually in Bahia Blanca, but is a Portea. I want to learn castellano as spoken in the area.

I found this site that goes into lumfardo, including some terms useful for our hobby:

http://www.portenospanish.com/

There seem to be a lot of terms for cigarettes, assholes (the people kind, not the anatomic part), and police!No price info on the vosbuenosaires web site. Would you mind saying what you are paying and for how many hours of instruction?

Thanks, Bob.

TejanoLibre
06-05-15, 18:32
I think that this odd little App was put together by an AP Member that I met a few years ago.

TL.

Creideiki
06-06-15, 17:12
Payment is via Pay Pal. VOS will work with you to tailor the course to your particular interests. I'm finding it very useful to hear how the language sounds when spoken by an Argentinian; it really is different than other castellano I've heard.


No price info on the vosbuenosaires web site. Would you mind saying what you are paying and for how many hours of instruction?

Thanks, Bob.You need to have video call capability and a Google or gmail account; they use the video chat/interactive features of Google Hangouts.

Oh, and Marilina, the video instructor, is cute.

C.

Yujin
07-07-15, 01:09
Is the word "panita" commonly used in Argentina? I kept hearing it in other parts of South America (Te adoro mi panita), but I don't recall hearing it in Argentina. If not used in Argentina, is there something similar?