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Md2000
06-15-09, 15:12
What are the dos and don't in Argentina? I know in the states theres a big emphasis on giving a person their personal space but I've been to Europe where that doesn't seem to apply as much. Same things goes for approaching females. In America it's acceptable but I went to Dubai and almost got killed (probably a bad idea anyway haha) is it generally acceptable to randomly talk to someone and are there certain limitations to conversation / personal space I should know about?

Joe Hernandez
06-15-09, 16:07
What are the dos and don't in Argentina? I know in the states theres a big emphasis on giving a person their personal space but I've been to Europe where that doesn't seem to apply as much. Same things goes for approaching females. In America it's acceptable but I went to Dubai and almost got killed (probably a bad idea anyway haha) is it generally acceptable to randomly talk to someone and are there certain limitations to conversation / personal space I should know about?Everything is possible.

I would suggest you go to Museum on a Wednesday night, that should give you an idea how things work in BA.

Guiller
06-15-09, 16:27
Argentina is a pretty much liberal society (as a general statement, this applies mostly to larger cities, not to small towns as usual) unlike to be reminiscent of a conservative-type that could be more common in the Middle East (excluding some cases) Just do whatever you feel like and see what happens. Nobody will kill you, as there are almost no rules. Some people like to play, some not, but you can always control the flux of events.

Md2000
06-15-09, 17:04
Ah good to hear and good advice.


Everything is possible.

I would suggest you go to Museum on a Wednesday night, that should give you an idea how things work in BAJoe whats so special about the museum on a Wed night

Joe Hernandez
06-15-09, 17:27
Ah good to hear and good advice.

Joe whats so special about the museum on a Wed nightYou will see how Argentines guys are picking up a girl, it's just a lot different then how to do it in the first world or even in big cities in the region that I know (La Paz, Lima, Santiago, Montevideo, Sao Paulo)

I don't really know how to explain it but you can basically just grab the girl and start talking to her. No girl will give you an hard time about it

Argento
06-16-09, 09:12
What are the dos and don't in Argentina? I know in the states theres a big emphasis on giving a person their personal space but I've been to Europe where that doesn't seem to apply as much. Same things goes for approaching females. In America it's acceptable but I went to Dubai and almost got killed (probably a bad idea anyway haha) is it generally acceptable to randomly talk to someone and are there certain limitations to conversation / personal space I should know about?Etiquette and Argentina in the same sentence! What a joke! Argentinos, and by that I mean Portenos, (residents of Buenos Aires) are interested in taking your money and some may do it nicely but the majority go about it fairly brutally. Etiquette would not come into the equation except to detract you from their main game. When it suits them and their particular situation, they may stand on their dignity and protest about the uncouth foreigners. You might be fooled the first time but if you are half-smart, they won't get you again.

Argento

Miami Bob
06-17-09, 00:45
The nasty insults are very simular to the way many people talk about people from the usa all over the world--I wonder why? The arrogance, narrowminedness and egoism of many people from the usa will ultimately lead to it's own fall. Hurbris! I was born and raised in the usa and am proud of my country, but I still don't appreciate all the nasty comments by my fellow country men. All Argentines are X. All Portenos are why.

Buenos Aies is not part of the USA. Argentina has it's own culture and history which has value and is due basic respect even it you may not understand it; appreciate it; and are only in BA as a sexual tourist.

Guiller
06-17-09, 12:26
The nasty insults are very simular to the way many people talk about people from the usa all over the world--I wonder why? The arrogance, narrowminedness and egoism of many people from the usa will ultimately lead to it's own fall. Hurbris! I was born and raised in the usa and am proud of my country, but I still don't appreciate all the nasty comments by my fellow country men. All Argentines are X. All Portenos are Y.

Buenos Aies is not part of the USA. Argentina has it's own culture and history which has value and is due basic respect even it you may not understand it; appreciate it; and are only in BA as a sexual tourist.Thanks for bringing in some lucidity to this thread. Statements about any subject showing deep pride, hate or any other such intense feelings related to others are clearly irrational expressions that most of the time say more about the individual who expresses him or herself that way than about the subject of the statement itself.

All the best

Argento
06-17-09, 20:22
The nasty insults are very simular to the way many people talk about people from the USA all over the world--I wonder why? The arrogance, narrowminedness and egoism of many people from the usa will ultimately lead to it's own fall. Hurbris! I was born and raised in the usa and am proud of my country, but I still don't appreciate all the nasty comments by my fellow country men. All Argentines are X. All Portenos are why.

Buenos Aies is not part of the USA. Argentina has it's own culture and history which has value and is due basic respect even it you may not understand it; appreciate it; and are only in BA as a sexual tourist.It's not a USA vs Argentina thing. For your information I wasn't born or raised in the USA, but some how or other, my principles seem to align with most Westerners in terms of business, honesty and integrity. And that is the base line. And since I have more than 20 years of experience in the Argentine business world as well as the social experiences associated with living here, I feel as qualified as anyone to tell it as I see it. You might call it hubris, sexual tourist 'wash and wear opinions', ugly Americans overseas, whatever, but I don't give a rat's arse. You are entitled to your opinions even when they are based on wrong presumptions and my guess is, very little business dealings with Portenos. You don't have to appreciate my comments; just prove otherwise.

Argento

Jackson
06-17-09, 20:34
The nasty insults are very simular to the way many people talk about people from the USA all over the world.MB,

People "all over the world" do not use "nasty insults" when they talk about "people from the USA".

The world does not hate Americans.

With all due respect, you have got to stop listening to the rantings of college students and their leftist professors, and you need to re-think your belief that the world's perspective of Americans is accurately reflected through the lens of the world's ultra-liberal media.

Thanks,

Jackson

El Queso
06-17-09, 20:51
I agree with Argento for the most part. I haven't had to have as many diverse business dealings with Argentinos like I know he has, and not for as long (only three years to his twenty) I can understand why he is a little more bitter and demonstrative about what he says.

The fact is, there really ARE a lot of loud-mouthed foreigners who can't understand another society, but that's not what we're talking about when we mention our frustrations regarding Argentino society. Get out into the rest of Argentina, talk to the people, understand how they live and what they go through ona daily basis, go through some of the same almost unbelievable crap, and you can even understand a little WHY they are like they are in large part. There's almost no such thing as cooperation here, for example (and I can give many everyday examples)

To say that it's just their flavor of society and should be respected is really morally relativistic or at best simplistic. To give an un-evenhanded comparison, it would be similar to saying that we should respect cannibals' societies when we come in contact with them - even if one of our friends or loved ones becomes a meal.

There are many aspects to this society which are fundamentally flawed and when you are immersed in the society day after day (not just down here for pussy, can't leave whenever you want to, can't stay away until you miss it again, etc. You really can understand why they are in such problems in so many places in their society, and it ain't because South America has opened its veins to North America, for example - that's just an excuse.

However, we were talking about etiquette in this thread, and while Argento's comments may be valid in a general way, they did seem to me to be maybe a little out of place in this thread.

I would not agree with anyone who says that the every Argentino is out to get money out of your pocket in any fashion possible and that as far as etiquette goes as long as they can get that money they will ignore the etiquette. However, I would agree that there are sufficient Argentinos who DO think and do business that way that it is something that has to be carefully watched if you have any dealings beyond a few (probably rich) Argentino friends and tourist-type interactions.

However, Argentine society is remarkably tolerant of certain things, which makes it very nice to be here in many cases. Unless one of them happens to be in a bad mood and finds out that you're American, or Bolivian, or Paraguayan, etc.

Miami Bob
06-17-09, 22:09
TRUE I HAVEN'T BEEN TO EUROPE IN FIVE YEARS--that was during the days of freedom fries--the USA government was despised. Hopefully the change in administration is bringing back some warm feelings. I did not invent the term the "ugly american" and they were not talking about south americans, but people from the usa who are 98% culturally insensitive to argentine culture, french culture and most places they visit.

I'll give you a stange example that was difficult for me to accept at first: It is very rude to say NO to someone. Negociation in BA is different than in the usa. If you negociate like you might in the usa, you will inadvertantly create bad will at the offset.

I have been doing business with argentines for 6+years. I am very, very careful about what I do and with whom I deal. I have enough family in BA and friends that I generally have some sort of connection to busnesses that I deal with in any serious transaction. I walk away rather deal with untrustable people. I was recently here for two weeks and went into about 6 or 7 real estate offices to look to buy an apartment. I walked out of all except two within 15 minutes--I did not chose to deal with them. When I actually buy when there is a serious down turn, I will buy from a guy who friends introduced me to years ago to invest in one of his projects. I did not invest with him, but we became friendly. I have lunch with him on every trip to ba and I've had asado with his family at their weekend house.

I agree that the government and the banking system in Argentina do not function and that you need "special know how" to be successful here. A good way to insure that you never develop special know how is to bad mouth and being rude to the people you deal with by argentine standards, not usa standards.

I was born and grew up in NYC. I personally find the Portenos simular to new yorkers: quick, fast, insensitive[except with familiy and friends] and with the potential to rip you off if you are not careful about what you are doing.

I am not saying that EVERYTHING ARGENTINE IS GOOD, BUT THAT NOT EVERYTHING IS BAD. My experienced is that there is a higher proportion of untrustable people in business in BA than NYC. But both locations have some wondeful people who are a pleasure to deal with. It is offensive to say "all agies are thiefs, liers and full of crap". Just as saying that all the people from the usa are ugly americans.

Guiller
06-18-09, 09:12
A society could be evaluated by the way it business community behaves, provided that there could be such a unique way? No mentioning of cultural values appear to have been made here, and to many people, including me, that is actually the most important value to be found in a society. Money is a value, fine. But beauty and knowledge are also values. For people interested in finding it out, there is plenty of people who focus on those values with low profile in the society of Argentina. These people are not few, and can be easily found at a concert in Teatro Colon, mostly at the cheapest ticket locations. Finding other people that care more about sharing a recent long-play recording in a music listening session among friends on a Saturday afternoon than about the ups and downs of the stock market is a blessing that some people enjoy in Buenos Aires. A similar story could be said about people who gather to watch interesting, off-mainstream movies at some of the specialized movie houses around Buenos Aires. From my own experience, it is not at all easy to find those passionate people in fair amounts anywhere in the world. I mean, cultural life understood not a lifestyle of rich people, but as a passion, mostly undertaken by middle class, professional people. This is one of the main reasons I have to have chosen settle down in Buenos Aires.

All the best

Argento
06-18-09, 09:31
TRUE I HAVEN'T BEEN TO EUROPE IN FIVE YEARS--that was during the days of freedom fries--the USA government was despised. Hopefully the change in administration is bringing back some warm feelings. I did not invent the term the "ugly american" and they were not talking about south americans, but people from the usa who are 98% culturally insensitive to argentine culture, french culture and most places they visit.

I'll give you a stange example that was difficult for me to accept at first: It is very rude to say NO to someone. Negociation in BA is different than in the usa. If you negociate like you might in the usa, you will inadvertantly create bad will at the offset.

I have been doing business with argentines for 6+years. I am very, very careful about what I do and with whom I deal. I have enough family in BA and friends that I generally have some sort of connection to busnesses that I deal with in any serious transaction. I walk away rather deal with untrustable people. I was recently here for two weeks and went into about 6 or 7 real estate offices to look to buy an apartment. I walked out of all except two within 15 minutes--I did not chose to deal with them. When I actually buy when there is a serious down turn, I will buy from a guy who friends introduced me to years ago to invest in one of his projects. I did not invest with him, but we became friendly. I have lunch with him on every trip to ba and I've had asado with his family at their weekend house.

I agree that the government and the banking system in Argentina do not function and that you need "special know how" to be successful here. A good way to insure that you never develop special know how is to bad mouth and being rude to the people you deal with by argentine standards, not usa standards.

I was born and grew up in NYC. I personally find the Portenos simular to new yorkers: quick, fast, insensitive[except with familiy and friends] and with the potential to rip you off if you are not careful about what you are doing.

I am not saying that EVERYTHING ARGENTINE IS GOOD, BUT THAT NOT EVERYTHING IS BAD. My experienced is that there is a higher proportion of untrustable people in business in BA than NYC. But both locations have some wondeful people who are a pleasure to deal with. It is offensive to say "all agies are thiefs, liers and full of crap". Just as saying that all the people from the usa are ugly americans.Lot of words Bob, but for those of us that are immersed in business transactions daily, do you not think that we have some street savy and that also we do try to be selective with the Portenos we do business with. Or is that something mainly inherent in "quick, fast, insensitive' New Yorkers and denied to lesser, obviously stupid beings not kissed on the dick by God by being born and bred in New York. The difference would seem to be that we are genuine business people, immersed in transactions daily, with staff, rents, overheads, Argentine corrupt bureaucracy; the whole damm thing. You it would appear, may buy something occasionally, particularly if family recomend the situation and consider that is "being in business" here. I don't think it is being in business here and I also think that you don't get it. The 3 or 4 declared board members who do run a business here, all have similiar attitudes to me and most I do not know personally. The fact that we run successful businesses here is really proof of our ability. More especially when we stick to our western principles and don't lie, cheat, steal and do deliver our end of the deal with good will.

So apart from wanting to be my arbiter in matters of my opinion on Argentine etiquette, you are condescending in thinking you know more about business here than those of us who are in business.

Argento

Cordoba Dan
06-18-09, 10:59
Your point is well taken Argento. There was similar, excessive know it all drivel from M. B. in the stock market thread last year. When a member takes the time to share insight accumulated from ample personal experience and it is challenged with little more than N. Y. Style antagonism or one-upsmanship, that later post adds nothing and serves to dilute much of the wisdom.

As for Guiller's comment, with quality ass taking the top spot, cultural passion and expression would be the 2nd most powerful pull that keeps me coming back.

BadMan
06-18-09, 11:02
Hi Md,

I think your question is very broad in it's scope and that's why the replies are all over the place. As long as you treat people with respect you will be fine. There is no great tutorial on how to deal with Argentinians and everyone has a different opinion so you'll probably get more confused listening to them all. You will learn as you go along, just be observant. Argentinians are very transparent.

But you won't go wrong with treating people with respect. Remember you are a guest, a paying guest, but a guest nonetheless. Many people forget this.

Argentinians are in general very friendly jovial people. But they can turn it on and off very quickly. It really depends on the vibe they get from you.

As far as women go. They are very approachable, more so than American women IMHO. Compliments are always welcome as long as you are polite. You will automatically get on their good side being polite.

Hope this was somewhat helpful since the point of my post was to try to answer your question and help you out and not just simply to spout off at the mouth.

Regards,

BM


What are the dos and don't in Argentina? I know in the states theres a big emphasis on giving a person their personal space but I've been to Europe where that doesn't seem to apply as much. Same things goes for approaching females. In America it's acceptable but I went to Dubai and almost got killed (probably a bad idea anyway haha) is it generally acceptable to randomly talk to someone and are there certain limitations to conversation / personal space I should know about?

Md2000
06-18-09, 13:55
Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess I was just curious as to how I should approach a non-worker in public. I definitely intend to approach with respect but I know in certain countries its not polite to randomly walk up to someone in the street or at the mall. In USA for the most part its allowed but in other areas it may be frowned upon.

Its also interesting to see that the club / bar scene is so "aggressive" as you all put it. I think in the US I'm accustomed to approaching a little more cautiously but it seems like a guy can be a little more aggressive then typical in the US.

Anyway I think for the most part you all answered my questions thanks!

Miami Bob
06-18-09, 23:54
Sid should know better and in person doesn't have a nasty bone in his body.

Argento I never was really commenting about you at first: I did not mean to be a know it all. I know nothing about your situation and you may be correct in saying that I am full of drivel--I have not walked in your shoes. I personally would have a lot to learn to do what peter and matt do at the alamo or likely whatever it is that you are doing. I'll pm you. I just pissed off when I read all aggies are this or that. I've been in the reverse situation with a room full of drunken argentines talking shit about stuff that the usa has done and laying it on me. This a thread about argentine culture and how it differs from the usa. Do you know the story about the birth of the brazilian shoe manufacturing industry?

CD, I made good money on many of the stock market buys from a few month ago, most of which have been sold. I am not an investment professional and I'm sure that I would not try to influence anyone to follow my thoughts on the stock market. Please feel free to flame me anytime it pleases you to do so. Or if you are more experienced than me, please help educated me.

Wild Walleye
06-19-09, 12:35
[QUOTE=Sidney]you can witness this in all the children. They learn the behavior from the parents and act accordingly![/ QUOTE.]Because this lovely chica was slapping herself in the face with my amigo and I was loving it. However, if I think about where she learned that little trick, in light of the above comment, I might loose my wood.

BadMan
06-19-09, 13:11
Why would you even post that?

That's fucking perverted and disgusting.


[QUOTE=Sidney]you can witness this in all the children. They learn the behavior from the parents and act accordingly![/ QUOTE.]

Because this lovely chica was slapping herself in the face with my amigo and I was loving it. However, if I think about where she learned that little trick, in light of the above comment, I might loose my wood.

Guiller
06-19-09, 19:42
Of course there are exceptions.If I were to judge the entire humanity by its average representatives I would conclude it's mean, arrogant, aggressive, ignorant, intolerant, coward, egoistic, defensive, irrational, impulsive. Fortunately there are a few exceptional cases like Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Einstein, Newton, Dostoievsky, Shakespeare and some more of that kind.

All the best

Iamzonzon
07-28-09, 23:51
I am 40ish but still have game. I have not dated a woman over the age of 32 in years. I am trying to break my bad 19 - 22 year old addictions. I do well socially although my Spanish is weak. I can meet people easily in crowded dance clubs - it's a gift? P4P is completely understandable. In fact, it is likely that some business relatoinships could become social. As long as I keep paying, I know, I know.

Is it true that Argentinians drink less? I just spend time in Colombia - mucho rumba. I might need to find a slower speed?

And what about the balance of begin a "strong man." In the USA, we fall all over ourselves getting in touch with our feminine side and developing consensus of every fucking little thing. I have been on a Russian; Colombian diet for over two years. If you don't act strong and deliberative these girls think your a pussy. How does this apply to Argentinian girls - non - working.

And, since I am going on a field trip. I do not NEED to stay only in BA. Is there much to see in the smaller interior cities. (Remember, I am looking for fun, with the chance to find something more)

Gracias.

Iamzonzon
07-29-09, 14:40
And, since I am going on a FUCKING field trip. I do not NEED to stay only in BA. Is there much to see in the smaller interior cities. Better FUCKING pussy and maybe easier non pros? Si or No?

GRACIAS DOS

Hubbster
08-09-09, 19:33
MB,

People "all over the world" do not use "nasty insults" when they talk about "people from the USA".

The world does not hate Americans.

With all due respect, you have got to stop listening to the rantings of college students and their leftist professors, and you need to re-think your belief that the world's perspective of Americans is accurately reflected in the lens of the world's ultra-liberal media.

Thanks,

JacksonExcellent reply. I have family in Arg and in the USA and I've been visiting Arg since I was a child.

I never met anyone who hated Americans in Arg. Sure they were PO'd we helped the UK during the Falklands but people in Arg in general, and especiallys Arg women like Americans.

As for etiquette most non pro Arg women tend to be rather conservative but can also be for womens rights etc.

Just follow the Golden Rule and treat others the way you want to be treated and you should be fine