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Trampa
09-30-10, 15:31
When do they go down? They keep going up and as far as I can tell they get rented out?

When is it changing? I thought it would in 2008,2009 and 2010 but so far they are only going up.2011 should be the year but I can't really put my finger on it

Miami Bob
10-01-10, 04:07
The stort term rental market appears to be very depressed compared to a few years ago-prices on many websites are lower. I know because I have rented the same apartments at lower prices. Most of the argentine agencies are fixed prices or they will on the website indicate a special or promotional price and not negociate by email or on the phone. Some websites keep high prices and will definately negociate, rather not do business.

Argentina's business culture has it's own twists and turns that are different that most other places in the world. I absolutely love ba, BUT along with the positives there are some strange twists. I don't want to post specifics, you may PM me. There are people in the business who read this site who I know and I don't want to publically discuss some of their unusually practices.

Trampa
10-01-10, 15:26
When do they go down? They keep going up and as far as I can tell they get rented out?

When is it changing? I thought it would in 2008,2009 and 2010 but so far they are only going up.2011 should be the year but I can't really put my finger on itCan you give me a link to the appartments you are talking about?

Everybody who (semi) permanent lives in BA knows that once you negociate you can get 20 to 30% off the price tha the rental agencies use but prices even after negociating won't go down.

I am guessing they are keep going up untill people stop renting them, which not seem to be the case.

P. S. If you use BYT as a benchmark they have roughly 30% of there appartments available for the next month, it seems the ocupation rate somehow is pretty good

Miami Bob
10-02-10, 00:57
Many members have been using this forum for exactly the information that you ask about. For example, look at the bytargentina thread as an example.

I generally like reynalds and Jackson is the best, but is out of the business.

RentingBAXXXXXX[I have placed "X"'s rather than the rest of the name which is ". COM" because the owner is a good guy who doesn't want a sex forum to come up when potential clients google the business' name]-is relatively well run. They will negociate the price on the website listed prices when the market is slow. They will call you in the USA and have a north american phone number. They will look up your flite's arrival information on the net. You will not be abandoned in the street if your flite is a few hours late. This rentingBA. XXXX is sometimes more expensive. The owner is in business and will try to get the highest price that he reasonable thinks the market will bear.

Byt is going out of their way to make me happy-I am dealing with them again. The operations manager is helping

me and recommending only good apartment owners' apartments for me. The apartment owner is very important.

If you are renting from a sleaze-ball who turns off the internet when business is slow to save money, there will be problems no matter which company is the rental agent. I have arrived after flying all night and found all sorts of strange things that have been done to save a few pesos-a good agency will be more aggressive about helping.

I seem to have survived a bad situation with byt and landed on my feet-I now get the lowdown on the owner. This is very valuable info. I am renting a 58 meter, nicely furnished apartment, in a new building on I high floor with a view for $400. Per week. De melo near azcuenaga. Byt has some very well priced properties, BUT there are some twists and turns to the way they do business. It was just luck that I got to know the operations manager.

Trampa
10-02-10, 16:53
I don't consider 1600 dollar for a new 2 room appartement in Palermo a good deal. Should no way be more then around 1000-1200 dollar

El Perro
10-02-10, 17:11
I don't consider 1600 dollar for a new 2 room appartement in Palermo a good deal. Should no way be more then around 1000-1200 dollarThe Dogg's discriminating nose smells Redondo.

Jaimito Cartero
10-02-10, 22:53
Weekly rentals are often fairly expensive. Most that I see charge 2-2.5x the weekly rate for a monthly rental. So 2.5x400 is, $1000.

Miami Bob
10-03-10, 03:49
WE can't read the websites and all the past postings for you.

Trampa
10-03-10, 08:03
Weekly rentals are often fairly expensive. Most that I see charge 2-2.5x the weekly rate for a monthly rental. So 2.5x400 is, $1000.1000:4 = 250

That should be a lot closer to the real value

Jaimito Cartero
10-03-10, 17:44
1000:4 = 250

That should be a lot closer to the real valueI don't think you understand how things work.

Most apartments are going to be vacant some of the time. If they want to average $1000 per month, they need to rent it long term, or at least 2 1/2 weeks a month. If they followed your method, they'd only earn $625 or so, way below what they are aiming for.

Just as a chica may charge you $200 pesos for an hour, and 500 for 12 hour TLN, there is better pricing for a longer time commitment.

Trampa
10-04-10, 05:00
I don't think you understand how things work.

Most apartments are going to be vacant some of the time. If they want to average $1000 per month, they need to rent it long term, or at least 2 1/2 weeks a month. If they followed your method, they'd only earn $625 or so, way below what they are aiming for.

Just as a chica may charge you $200 pesos for an hour, and 500 for 12 hour TLN, there is better pricing for a longer time commitment. I compare it more to a 2 year lease. If that's your benchmark and you calculate with a 60-70% ocupation rate your rental price should be roughly 25-30% higher then the price you get with a 2 year lease.

For a 1400 dollar 60m2 appartement in Palermo you should not pay more then around 1000 dollar because a 2 year lease can found for around 500 dollar (excluding expenses which should be roughly around 200 dollar a month)

This is different of course if the owner wants to occupy the appartment part-time and want to rent it out the time he is away (Argentine living abroad for example)

Jaimito Cartero
10-04-10, 11:19
A temporary rental is not a 2 year lease. Are you retarded?

Seaman
10-04-10, 12:54
I compare it more to a 2 year lease. If that's your benchmark and you calculate with a 60-70% ocupation rate your rental price should be roughly 25-30% higher then the price you get with a 2 year lease.

For a 1400 dollar 60m2 appartement in Palermo you should not pay more then around 1000 dollar because a 2 year lease can found for around 500 dollar (excluding expenses which should be roughly around 200 dollar a month)

This is different offcourse if the owner wants to occupy the appartment part-time and want to rent it out the time he is away (Argentine living abroad for example) You are making a very strange comparison! Do not forget that the owner can ask whatever they want, it is their property and you are not in the position to tell them what to charge. If I want to rent out a 40m2 apartment (yes, it is written with just one "p") for US$1000 a week, and I find tenants, why should I not do it?
Also the costs involved in short time rentals is a lot higher then the costs involved in long term rentals! If you have not been involved in the owner side of short term rentals then you do not have a f*cking clue about the costs involved and are you unable to say what a "fair" price is.

And since when are you able to estimate the expenses from a distance without looking at all factors involved? Do you have any idea what the main costs are in the expenses? It is possible to have 2 buildings next to each other, with comparable apartments and very different expenses.

BTW I do think that dogs do have a very good sense of smell, so I have to agree with Doggboy.

Trampa
10-04-10, 14:49
You are making a very strange comparison! Do not forget that the owner can ask whatever they want, it is their property and you are not in the position to tell them what to charge. If I want to rent out a 40m2 apartment (yes, it is written with just one "p") for US$1000 a week, and I find tenants, why should I not do it?

Also the costs involved in short time rentals is a lot higher then the costs involved in long term rentals! If you have not been involved in the owner side of short term rentals then you do not have a f*cking clue about the costs involved and are you unable to say what a "fair" price is.

And since when are you able to estimate the expenses from a distance without looking at all factors involved? Do you have any idea what the main costs are in the expenses? It is possible to have 2 buildings next to each other, with comparable apartments and very different expenses.

BTW I do think that dogs do have a very good sense of smell, so I have to agree with Doggboy. And I can say it shouldn't be more then I think it's worth, besides from any exeptions there is a market price for temporary rentals. Overpriced rentals are normally not rented out

ABL / Cable / Phone / maid / wates / gas / electricity and taxes are all more less fixed and about the expenses the owner normally gets he gets a bill which is normally send a bill to the property. I can make a good estimate of the cost involved, it might be a bit off base but not by much

Temporary rentals and 2 year leases are income from the owner of the place and should be linked, if it's not interesting moneywise to rent it out to foreigners he will normally put it off the market or rent it out 2 years. Espect for people who use the apartment part-time

Seaman
10-04-10, 18:44
I can make a good estimate of the cost involved, it might be a bit off base but not by much
Well, I think you are absolutely wrong!
I have first hand experience in 2 similar apartments within the same block, not same building, both less then 10 yrs old, no 24/7 security and I can tell you that the difference is about 100% in expenses! There are way too many factors involved in the calculation of the expenses of an apartment to make a good estimate of the expenses without inside knowledge.

You have to realize one thing. The owners have something you want. So it is their decision what to charge etc, not yours. If you are lucky you will find an owner who is willing to negotiate, but what you are thinking is plain wrong. I know people in the apartment rental business and they hardly break even some months! So that means that the "good" months need to make up for the bad months.

But... You are typically a person who thinks he knows it all, but actually knows nothing. So most likely you do not want to see how wrong you are, and you will try to convince people who actually have first hand knowledge of your opinion. (Which will not work of course!)

Trampa
10-04-10, 18:51
Well, I think you are absolutely wrong!

I have first hand experience in 2 similar apartments within the same block, not same building, both less then 10 yrs old, no 24/7 security and I can tell you that the difference is about 100% in expenses! There are way too many factors involved in the calculation of the expenses of an apartment to make a good estimate of the expenses without inside knowledge.

You have to realize one thing. The owners have something you want. So it is their decision what to charge etc, not yours. If you are lucky you will find an owner who is willing to negotiate, but what you are thinking is plain wrong. I know people in the apartment rental business and they hardly break even some months! So that means that the "good" months need to make up for the bad months.

But. You are typically a person who thinks he knows it all, but actually knows nothing. So most likely you do not want to see how wrong you are, and you will try to convince people who actually have first hand knowledge of your opinion. (Which will not work of course!

So what's your balanced and unbiased opinion about the prices for the rest of 2010 and 2011?

Seaman
10-04-10, 19:05
Prices will go up.

By how much nobody knows, all depending on the inflation figures and the political decisions here in AR. (And the elections at the end of 2011)

Wild Walleye
10-04-10, 19:09
I am not experienced in long-term or even short-term rentals in Bs As, although hopefully that will change. That said, it is a business transaction.

Seaman pointed out the basics: the owner/agent has something that you want (apartment). You have something he wants (money). Presumably, there is a price range within which you might be compelled to rent a particular apartment. Similarly, there is a range of prices within which the owner/agent is willing to provide the apartment to a tenant. If those two ranges overlap, the likelihood of getting a deal done increases dramatically. The costs of owning and maintaining the apartment do not dictate the price at which the apartment should be made available, rather it is the supply and demand of the market place that will ultimately determine market prices.

The fact that a potential renter believes the owner/agents are charging prices that are unnecessarily high, does not enter the equation. If supply and demand conditions deteriorate in favor of those seeking accommodations, then ultimately prices should fall. However, it usually takes owners/agents some time after the market has turned against them to realize it and to start cutting prices.

The fact that most of the agents and owners are Argentine complicates the transaction. That is not meant as a slight in any way it is an observation based on experience with Argentines as counter parties to transactions and potential cultural ramifications.

Trampa
10-05-10, 04:12
I am not experienced in long-term or even short-term rentals in Bs As, although hopefully that will change. That said, it is a business transaction.

Seaman pointed out the basics: the owner / agent has something that you want (apartment. You have something he wants (money. Presumably, there is a price range within which you might be compelled to rent a particular apartment. Similarly, there is a range of prices within which the owner / agent is willing to provide the apartment to a tenant. If those two ranges overlap, the likelihood of getting a deal done increases dramatically. The costs of owning and maintaining the apartment do not dictate the price at which the apartment should be made available, rather it is the supply and demand of the market place that will ultimately determine market prices.

The fact that a potential renter believes the owner / agents are charging prices that are unnecessarily high, does not enter the equation. If supply and demand conditions deteriorate in favor of those seeking accommodations, then ultimately prices should fall. However, it usually takes owners / agents some time after the market has turned against them to realize it and to start cutting prices.

The fact that most of the agents and owners are Argentine complicates the transaction. That is not meant as a slight in any way it is an observation based on experience with Argentines as counter parties to transactions and potential cultural ramifications. I still believe it's all about the ocupation rate you have, if it's too low people will take there property off the market and rent it out for 2 years with less hassle.

I think that both 2 year leases as temporary rentals are linked

BadMan
10-05-10, 17:15
Are you retarded?Pretty much sums it up.

Spassmusssein
10-05-10, 17:42
Hay que understand that meanwhile the Brazilian tourist are easily willing to pay. To pay the price that somebody refuses to pay.

This forum does not make this market. Just connects owners and users of the same language.

I never rented out temporary because I like the permanent tenant.

The last 4 appartements I built will be per month, but for engineers, who are building up the three industrial parks in my zone.

Take the price of the temporary market or book in an hotel.

Trampa
10-05-10, 18:16
Hay que understand that meanwhile the Brazilian tourist are easily willing to pay. To pay the price that somebody refuses to pay.

This forum does not make this market. Just connects owners and users of the same language.

I never rented out temporary because I like the permanent tenant.

The last 4 appartements I built will be per month, but for engineers, who are building up the three industrial parks in my zone.

Take the price of the temporary market or book in an hotel. And how many of those Brazilian visitors stay longer then 3 days (or go skiing in Bariloche) and have not booked an all-in trip?

I believe there is some increase in Brazilian travellers to BA like people who spend a couple of weeks here and people who come over for a couple of months between jobs, study Spanish, etc. They would probally rent a temporary rental but I don't believe there is a huge growing demand there

Miami Bob
10-08-10, 01:10
Then we could have a discussion about the supply and demand factors which effect the availabilty and cost of BB full service vs. BB blow job. WE could take a random sample of former exedera girls and make graphings and multi-colored pie charts with the more sophisticate software we now have on this web site.

OH the joys of another new knuckle- head apprentice poster!

El Perro
10-08-10, 09:27
Then we could have a discussion about the supply and demand factors which effect the availabilty and cost of BB full service vs. BB blow job. WE could take a random sample of former exedera girls and make graphings and multi-colored pie charts with the more sophisticate software we now have on this web site.

OH the joys of another new knuckle- head apprentice poster! MB-knucklehead yes! Apprentice No! Trampa IS Redondo. Absolutely no question in my mind.

Spirit Rider
10-13-10, 15:05
There is very little likelyhood for prices to decline.

As is known in "other" areas, a significant number of Argentines are not very good capitalists. They do not understand the basic premises of the supply demand curve.

They demand you pay or they go home. Many do not understand the concept that lowering the price to increase demand. In fact when demand is low, they will raise prices in the mistaken attempt to generate the same revenue with lower volume.

That said, Argentines are masters of the deal. Most will certainly negotiate. However, this requires negotiating experience in Argentina and Spanish language skills and / or a native to do your negotiating for you.

So don't expect many list prices to go down, but if the apartment you want to rent has a low occupancy rate and the loadlord has half clue, you might get a significantly lower rate.

I have never paid the listed rate, then again I have a "well connected" local guy do my negotiaging for me. In fact he is visting the USA right now with his daughter. I'll have to remember to buy him some lobster and clam dinners for future price protection.