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View Full Version : Help with pricing and finding a 2 bedroom apartment in Buenos Aires



Wasabi
05-29-11, 04:17
I visited Buenos Aires March 2010 and totally loved it. I want to buy an apartment but I was hoping for some ideas and suggestions on my needs for areas of the city.

I stayed in San Telmo but seemed to like a lot of different areas. I preferred Palermo to Recoletta, but I loved San Telmo the most.

So I'm looking for an apartment in San Telmo or Palermo areas. If you think I would like other areas please advise any suggestions especially if better value apartments are there. I want to use the place for Holiday Rentals so it can't be in a bad part of the city, needs to be in the main areas.

What kind of money is a 2 bedroom apartment vs 1 bedroom? Typical difference?

How much more would I pay to have a car space or garage?

What sort of money does it cost to have a rooftop pool?

In anyone's general opinion what is the best value area if I want to buy a 2 bedroom place with a car space and what kind of money range should I expect to pay?

What are some good websites to look at? I can't write or read spanish.

Thanks guys,

Wasabi

Alejandra
05-29-11, 12:05
I visited Buenos Aires March 2010 and totally loved it. I want to buy an apartment but I was hoping for some ideas and suggestions on my needs for areas of the city.

I stayed in San Telmo but seemed to like a lot of different areas. I preferred Palermo to Recoletta, but I loved San Telmo the most.

So I'm looking for an apartment in San Telmo or Palermo areas. If you think I would like other areas please advise any suggestions especially if better value apartments are there. I want to use the place for Holiday Rentals so it can't be in a bad part of the city, needs to be in the main areas.

What kind of money is a 2 bedroom apartment vs 1 bedroom? Typical difference?

How much more would I pay to have a car space or garage?

What sort of money does it cost to have a rooftop pool?

In anyone's general opinion what is the best value area if I want to buy a 2 bedroom place with a car space and what kind of money range should I expect to pay?

What are some good websites to look at? I can't write or read spanish.

Thanks guys,

WasabiSorry, if you want, send me the specifications and preferences, I can help you in your search. I advance, which is very different San Telmo, Palermo. Are two totally different places. Palermo, is more sophisticated and therefore more expensive.

San Telmo is a nice place to meet, but do not know whether to live. San Telmo, near La Boca (which spread beyond the tourist, this place has, is not a safe place). Understand?

Ale

Gandolf50
05-29-11, 17:47
The best advice would be don't buy anything in Argentina! Rent. If you just have to buy wait for the next crash which is due any day now! Talk to people who have bought and sold property here before doing anything.

Silver Star
05-29-11, 21:29
The best advice would be don't buy anything in Argentina! Rent. If you just have to buy wait for the next crash which is due any day now! Talk to people who have bought and sold property here before doing anything.Good website is www.enbuenosaires.com and www.argenprop.com

You will need to get a good "Escribano" to check the title, and never use the Escribano the real estate agent suggests, get one on your own and make sure the title is squeaky clean.

You will also need to get a CDI, simlar to a social security number and remember, just about all transactions are in cash only!

I know real estate agents here that speak English if you are interested.

Cheers.

Fred.

www.silverstarcar.com

Premium Personal Car Service in Buenos Aires

Jackson
05-30-11, 15:17
Hi Wasabi,

Not withstanding the wisdom of buying into the top of a peaked-out market on the verge of a downturn, or that you'll need to fund the entire purchase price in cash so your money won't be working for you elsewhere, or that rental rates in BA as a percentage of the property's value are less than half of the norm for most of the developed world, here are some links to some local real estate websites:

http://www.inmuebles.clarin.com

http://inmuebles-home.mercadolibre.com.ar

http://www.argenprop.com

http://www.soloduenos.com

http://www.enbuenosaires.com

Thanks,

Jackson

Wasabi
06-01-11, 09:53
Hi Jackson thanks for the web links great help mate. Why would you say it's a peaked out market that's on the verge of a downturn? Isn't the foreign investors like myself going to influence the price of property regardless of the economy.

Brazil is about to get the Olympic games, and fifa in the coming years with those traveling to the surrounding countries some of us are even forced to stop in Argentina like us Australians. In my opinion, it's like Argentina is where Australia was in 1994 about to get a huge tourism injection of funds and property prices are about to double not because of your economy but because foreign people want a piece of the action. The things you can't control is people from other countries buying more and more property. You must understand that 150k is not much money. In Australia this would not buy you any house or apartment in Sydney, not even a crappy studio apartment 1 hour away from he city in a bad suburb.

Look at the price of apartments in Ipanema beach in Rio. Not many Brazilians, well none that I met can afford to live in Ipanema because it's driven by foreign investment in property along with supply and demand.

I think Argentina is well under valued and regardless of the economy the foreign buyers are going have a huge role in where prices go. Maybe north or south from here only time will tell.

Amantelondres
06-01-11, 14:23
If you're happy to trust the Kirchner regime with your investment, go ahead. One way or another you'll get screwed. I sure wouldn't keep any investments in the country, regardless of how low prices are. Just look at the transparency index on corruption; way down the list! It's a shame as it's a beautiful country with all the natural resources it needs, nice people (mainly in the provinces) , including some stunning chicas, but the govt. Just doesn't know how to manage the situation. I sold my apartment and am happy I did so and now stay in hotels.

The following is a letter published in the Buenos Aires Herald:


Argentina's Birthright Sold.

We do not remember to have heard, known or read in history of a case in which a country was more shamelessly betrayed by incompetent and corrupt officials than the Argentine Republic during the last 18 years. We cannot conceive how a patriotic honest Argentine can avoid shame and burning indignation against the ignorant and corrupt oligarchy which has cursed the country for years and has well nigh enslaved and altogether discredited itAnd when was this published? November 8th 1890! No

I live in Europe and must say I haven't seen any govt. sponsored promotion pushing tourism. Chile, Uruguay, Ecuador, Brazil, all promote tourism. Argentina? Do they even have a Ministerio de Turismo?

Bottom line? It's a great country. I love it. But don't invest. Not yet. Use your money to see the country, be a King in BA, enjoy the chicas, food and wine. Use that 150, 000K wisely.


Hi Jackson thanks for the web links great help mate. Why would you say it's a peaked out market that's on the verge of a downturn? Isn't the foreign investors like myself going to influence the price of property regardless of the economy.

Brazil is about to get the Olympic games, and fifa in the coming years with those traveling to the surrounding countries some of us are even forced to stop in Argentina like us Australians. In my opinion, it's like Argentina is where Australia was in 1994 about to get a huge tourism injection of funds and property prices are about to double not because of your economy but because foreign people want a piece of the action. The things you can't control is people from other countries buying more and more property. You must understand that 150k is not much money. In Australia this would not buy you any house or apartment in Sydney, not even a crappy studio apartment 1 hour away from he city in a bad suburb.

Look at the price of apartments in Ipanema beach in Rio. Not many Brazilians, well none that I met can afford to live in Ipanema because it's driven by foreign investment in property along with supply and demand.

I think Argentina is well under valued and regardless of the economy the foreign buyers are going have a huge role in where prices go. Maybe north or south from here only time will tell.

Jackson
06-01-11, 18:23
Wasabi,

First, let me say that if you are considering buying a property for your own personal use, then my advice would be for you to buy whatever property you liked, for whatever price you felt was acceptable to you.

However, I glean from your questions that you are considering buying property in Buenos Aires as an investment, and thus...


Why would you say it's a peaked out market that's on the verge of a downturn? Isn't the foreign investors like myself going to influence the price of property regardless of the economy.Actually, the smart "foreign money" got in around 2003-2006, and has been generally getting out ever since, which explains why property prices have been relatively flat for the past couple of years, and why the inventory of properties for sale has doubled in the past year.


Brazil is about to get the Olympic games, and fifa in the coming years with those traveling to the surrounding countries some of us are even forced to stop in Argentina like us Australians. In my opinion, it's like Argentina is where Australia was in 1994 about to get a huge tourism injection of funds and property prices are about to double not because of your economy but because foreign people want a piece of the action. The things you can't control is people from other countries buying more and more property.I don't believe that you can rationally equivocate Argentina with Australia.

I also don't believe that travelers changing planes in Argentina, voluntary or otherwise, would have any effect on property prices in Buenos Aires.

In addition, I don't believe that a one time tourism event like the Olympics being held in one country would have any effect on the property prices of another country more than a thousand miles away.


You must understand that 150k is not much money. In Australia this would not buy you any house or apartment in Sydney, not even a crappy studio apartment 1 hour away from he city in a bad suburb.Yes, except you can't compare Sydney, Australia with Buenos Aires, Argentina.


Look at the price of apartments in Ipanema beach in Rio. Not many Brazilians, well none that I met can afford to live in Ipanema because it's driven by foreign investment in property along with supply and demand.Yes, except you can't compare Rio de Janerio, Brazil with Buenos Aires, Argentina.


I think Argentina is well under valued and regardless of the economy the foreign buyers are going have a huge role in where prices go. Maybe north or south from here only time will tell.Yes, local real estate agents have long been fond of showing potential buyers their charts comparing per meter prices of property in Buenos Aires with per meter prices of properties in cities like London, Paris and Sydney. Fortunately for them, it's impossible to create a corresponding chart comparing the legal, business and governmental environments in cities like England, France and Australia to the legal, business and governmental environment in Argentina.

Nevertheless, no discussion regarding these issues would be complete without adding these comments:

1. After the economic crisis in late 2002, Buenos Aires property became attractive because, with the devaluation of the peso, Buenos Aires became a very affordable city, especially in comparison to the marque cities featured in the realtor's aforesaid property price comparison charts. However, with inflation that advantage has dissipated, and in fact I would suggest that it now costs approximately as much to live in BA as any mid-size city in the USA. Hell, the other night I paid $55 fucking pesos for a fucking pepperoni pizza!

2. You suggested in your previous comments that you thought that foreign investors were creating the demand that was now and should in the future be "influencing" the local property prices, a theory to which I disagree. In fact, the large majority of today's buyers are Argentinos, and for a reason that requires some explanation.

When Argentinos accumulate some measure of cash, either through an inheritance, sale of another property, or from business profits, they have a dilemma: They do not want to put their cash in banks they do not trust, and they do not want to hold their cash in ever-deprecating pesos, so they "deposit" their cash in real estate much in the same way we might buy a CD from a bank. This phenomenon is what underlies what demand for properties there is in BA at the current time. However, the strength of this kind of market demand is largely contingent on today's relatively robust business climate, which many people believe, due to raging inflation in Argentina, cannot be sustained and thus will inevitably collapse.

BTW, the above described phenomenon is reflected in the greater demand for lower priced properties. In other words, the 20k to 40k properties generally sell much faster than the 200k properties because there are exponentially more potential buyers with 20k in cash that those with 200k in cash. Case in point: Last month I read a story of a property developer who platted a 200 lot subdivision in Pilar and sold every one of his $20,000 undeveloped lots in less than two weeks.

Thanks,

Jackson

Stan Da Man
06-01-11, 18:50
Brazil is about to get the Olympic games, and fifa in the coming years with those traveling to the surrounding countries some of us are even forced to stop in Argentina like us Australians. I agree this will have an effect but not the one you suggest. Rio de Janeiro and Buenos Aires are three hours apart by plane. So, it's unlikely that anyone will be buying property in Argentina in order to take part in the Olympics or World Cup. But, the reverse may be true. Folks who otherwise might have bought in Argentina may instead decide to buy in Brazil in order to be spectators of these events. To the extent these events have any impact on Buenos Aires real estate, I submit the effect is more likely to depress prices as demand dwindles. But, I doubt it will have much effect regardless. Good luck in your quest.

Argento
06-01-11, 20:00
Well Wasabi. Jackson is on the mark and you have a completely cock-eyed view of the Argentine property scene. To whit. I bought here in 2004 and confirmed the sale last week. Did well really as I bought for 100k and paid for the renovations and doubled my outlay. Plus it housed me and provided me with workspace for 7 years. Now I could have got the same price two years back so the market hasn't improved on the m2 basis that determines property prices here. And the cost of buying and the conveyancing is more than 6 times the price as Australia. Unless you time your entry carefully, it is very difficult to buy and sell and not be skun. This year the government instituted a COTI tax which added another 1-1/2% to the seller's cost and I think it applies at the same rate to the buyer. All in all, the market is flat and after more than 22 years of kicking around Argentina, only buy here when the economy is bust and on my timeframe, that is still a ways off. Property prices are only relevant for individual cities and unless you have good experience in living and owning property in third world countries, rent here a bit and have a good look around first. Avoid apartments. They have a form of ownership here called a PH. An excellent ownership method. Individual tittles on the same piece of land but no joint expenses except the shared passageway. The administration of apartment buildings here is a scam and monthly costs are unbearable. So my advice is buy a PH if you must and only about a year after the next crash and then make sure you sell it when the bell rings, usually when inflation starts to gallop. And that it has.

Argento.


Hi Jackson thanks for the web links great help mate. Why would you say it's a peaked out market that's on the verge of a downturn? Isn't the foreign investors like myself going to influence the price of property regardless of the economy.

Brazil is about to get the Olympic games, and fifa in the coming years with those traveling to the surrounding countries some of us are even forced to stop in Argentina like us Australians. In my opinion, it's like Argentina is where Australia was in 1994 about to get a huge tourism injection of funds and property prices are about to double not because of your economy but because foreign people want a piece of the action. The things you can't control is people from other countries buying more and more property. You must understand that 150k is not much money. In Australia this would not buy you any house or apartment in Sydney, not even a crappy studio apartment 1 hour away from he city in a bad suburb.

Look at the price of apartments in Ipanema beach in Rio. Not many Brazilians, well none that I met can afford to live in Ipanema because it's driven by foreign investment in property along with supply and demand.

I think Argentina is well under valued and regardless of the economy the foreign buyers are going have a huge role in where prices go. Maybe north or south from here only time will tell.

Rock Harders
06-01-11, 20:41
Mongers-

I agree with the general sentiment that it is better to rent than to buy in Buenos Aires and that this is not a particularly good time to buy property as an appreciation or rent based investment. Argento is accurate in his assertion that the market is FLAT, not overheated as Jackson (or maybe someone else) claimed. If you buy an apartment for $200k USD today in Buenos Aires, in five years you will be able to sell it for AT LEAST $200k USD. Argentina real estate is bought and sold in cash US Dollars so overheating is unlikely.

If you want to see a seriously overheating real estate market look no further than Brasil and Rio de Janeiro in particular. Real estate is sold there in (extremely overvalued) Reais and prices are shooting up by ridiculous percentages year after year. Buy now at R$1. 60/$1 USD and today's wacky prices and you are guaranteed to take a titanic bath on your investment if you go to sell it in 7-10 years. For those who bought in Brasil in 2002-2003 or during the brief period in late 2008 when the Real crashed now would be an excellent time to cash out.

Suerte,

RH

Wild Walleye
06-02-11, 15:40
In addition to Stan's comment, it is possible that there might be an increase in short-term rentals to Brazilians, who are renting their homes to Olympic visitors. That won't do much for Argie props after the Olympics are gone and the Brazilians go home.

There is an operating ethos, within the Argentine ruling class, to deny any profit opportunity to those not chosen.

Jackson
06-04-11, 15:23
Wasabi,

You suggested in your previous comments that you thought that foreign investors were creating the demand that was now and should in the future be "influencing" the local property prices, a theory to which I disagree. In fact, the large majority of today's buyers are Argentinos, and for a reason that requires some explanation.

When Argentinos accumulate some measure of cash, either through an inheritance, sale of another property, or from business profits, they have a dilemma: They do not want to put their cash in banks they do not trust, and they do not want to hold their cash in ever-deprecating pesos, so they "deposit" their cash in real estate much in the same way we might buy a CD from a bank. This phenomenon is what underlies what demand for properties there is in BA at the current time. However, the strength of this kind of market demand is largely contingent on today's over-hyped "spend it all today before it depreciates" business climate, which many people believe, due to raging inflation in Argentina, cannot be sustained and thus will inevitably collapse.

BTW, the above described phenomenon is reflected in the greater demand for lower priced properties. In other words, the 20k to 40k properties generally sell much faster than the 200k properties because there are exponentially more potential buyers with 20k in cash that those with 200k in cash. Case in point: Last month I read a story of a property developer who platted a 200 lot subdivision in Pilar and sold every one of his $20, 000 undeveloped lots in less than two weeks.

Thanks,

Jackson

Argento
06-04-11, 19:24
Wasabi,

You suggested in your previous comments that you thought that foreign investors were creating the demand that was now and should in the future be "influencing" the local property prices, a theory to which I disagree. In fact, the large majority of today's buyers are Argentinos, and for a reason that requires some explanation.

When Argentinos accumulate some measure of cash, either through an inheritance, sale of another property, or from business profits, they have a dilemma: They do not want to put their cash in banks they do not trust, and they do not want to hold their cash in ever-deprecating pesos, so they "deposit" their cash in real estate much in the same way we might buy a CD from a bank. This phenomenon is what underlies what demand for properties there is in BA at the current time. However, the strength of this kind of market demand is largely contingent on today's relatively robust "spend it all today before it depreciates" business climate, which many people believe, due to raging inflation in Argentina, cannot be sustained and thus will inevitably collapse.

BTW, the above described phenomenon is reflected in the greater demand for lower priced properties. In other words, the 20k to 40k properties generally sell much faster than the 200k properties because there are exponentially more potential buyers with 20k in cash that those with 200k in cash. Case in point: Last month I read a story of a property developer who platted a 200 lot subdivision in Pilar and sold every one of his $20, 000 undeveloped lots in less than two weeks.

Thanks,

JacksonAs a corollary to Jax's post, the building cost per m2 is the defining setting of a building's value. Apart from a very few suburbs in the Capital Federal which are limited to 3 stories, there is a defacto right to build multi-storied apartments. So if the demand increases, they pull down a 2 story building and build a multi-storied one. Effectively this caps a price bubble. The dirt price varies but building costs are about U$800 x m2 and subject to the rocketing inflation. Five years ago it was less than U$300 x m2.

In currency terms, apart from U$ dollars, the prices of property relative to the Euro and the Australian dollar have dropped back from where they were 2 years ago quite markedly.

Argento

Wasabi
06-05-11, 08:14
Some good info everyone, sounds like I'll rent for a while and sus it out. I doubt from what everyone saying that property is going to move far from where it is.

Hay Jackson as for you "$55 fucking pesos for a fucking pepperoni pizza!" I wish that was the price in Australia, we literally get raped on food prices here. A good pizza delivered can cost $100 Pesos I'm not joking check out www.crust.com.au This is basically a franchise model store that is everywhere and they are AU$22 each which is over $100 Pesos. Now you see why I want to move to BA.

Jackson
06-05-11, 14:21
Some good info everyone, sounds like I'll rent for a while and sus it out. I doubt from what everyone saying that property is going to move far from where it is.

Hay Jackson as for you "$55 fucking pesos for a fucking pepperoni pizza!" I wish that was the price in Australia, we literally get raped on food prices here. A good pizza delivered can cost $100 Pesos I'm not joking check out.

www.crust.com.au

This is basically a franchise model store that is everywhere and they are AU$22 each which is over $100 Pesos. Now you see why I want to move to BA. Yes, but I'll bet it's a better pizza.

Argento
06-05-11, 21:24
Some good info everyone, sounds like I'll rent for a while and sus it out. I doubt from what everyone saying that property is going to move far from where it is.

Hay Jackson as for you "$55 fucking pesos for a fucking pepperoni pizza!" I wish that was the price in Australia, we literally get raped on food prices here. A good pizza delivered can cost $100 Pesos I'm not joking check out.

www.crust.com.au

This is basically a franchise model store that is everywhere and they are AU$22 each which is over $100 Pesos. Now you see why I want to move to BA. But I bet the price is more stable than here. Prices have gone from $8 pesos to around $50 pesos in the last 5 years and no sign of stopping. This place can get expensive in Australian dollars. By the end of 1990, the cost of living here for basic items was more expensive than the US and Australia. Even now, hotels here are more expensive than their equivalents in the US. Going back to the pizzas. I think my local pizzaria, Petacas at Zapiola 1300 makes the best pizza bread I have ever tasted. Combined with a rub of garlic and tomato sauce, has to be perfection.

Argento.

Ler