The Argentine solution for the pesky lefties teaching their childern the wrong way to think

[Miami Bob]

There is a military solution:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/world/americas/argentinas-daughter-of-dirty-war-raised-by-man-who-killed-her-parents.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha22

Piochet in Chile was not creative enough. Maybe lacked the support of the Church. Thank god La CIA didn't likely come up with this uniquely Argentine solution.

It was odd reading this after a story about social conservatives doubting that ROMNEY is Republican enough for them. I pray that no one else ever solves the leftist problem in the uniquely Argentine manner. I know an argentine ex-airforce officer in miami, who when he realized what was going on, took his family to disney land for a week and never returned. What pushed him to leave, was taking families up in a plane with interrogators and pushing family members out over the ocean.one by one-as the target was interrogated. He douted the validity of this process, but did it. There were uniformed personnel in the planes who spoke primarily english and supervised the interrogations. When the english speaking quasi-military guys were horrified that when the youngest childern were kept to be socialized by good families-he realized the horror of what was being done and left his homeland never to return.

It is no excuse for some of the Kirshner odd policies, but at least helps to understand their reaction to what the military had done.

[Stan Da Man]

There is a military solution:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/world/americas/argentinas-daughter-of-dirty-war-raised-by-man-who-killed-her-parents.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha22

Piochet in Chile was not creative enough. Maybe lacked the support of the Church. Thank god La CIA didn't likely come up with this uniquely Argentine solution.

It was odd reading this after a story about social conservatives doubting that ROMNEY is Republican enough for them. I pray that no one else ever solves the leftist problem in the uniquely Argentine manner. I know an argentine ex-airforce officer in miami, who when he realized what was going on, took his family to disney land for a week and never returned. What pushed him to leave, was taking families up in a plane with interrogators and pushing family members out over the ocean. One by one-as the target was interrogated. He douted the validity of this process, but did it. There were uniformed personnel in the planes who spoke primarily english and supervised the interrogations. When the english speaking quasi-military guys were horrified that when the youngest childern were kept to be socialized by good families-he realized the horror of what was being done and left his homeland never to return.

It is no excuse for some of the Kirshner odd policies, but at least helps to understand their reaction to what the military had done.Bob, you're not just Hearing about the Dirty War now, are you?

If you're interested, watch "The Official Story" an Argentine film, about what happened to some of the kids. I'm sure there are many other films, as well, but that one's particularly good.

However, the notion that a military junta committed atrocities hardly makes Socialists any better or easier to understand. Some of the things we've already heard about Chavez are chilling, and there is sure to be more once he passes away from cancer, god willing. Try Lenin and Stalin for another reference point. For a more recent example, look at Tienneman Square. The real point is that bastards are bastards, no matter what the form of government.

[Moore]

What I don't understand is how the "right wing" ever stood a chance against the leftists in Argentina back in the 70s. And they won, I guess.

How many right-wing conservative Argentines do you know? 1 in 100 at most?

[El Perro]

What I don't understand is how the "right wing" ever stood a chance against the leftists in Argentina back in the 70s. And they won, I guess.

How many right-wing conservative Argentines do you know? 1 in 100 at most?Moore, there are a lot of them, but they keep a pretty low profile. No sense in sticking your head up when it might get lopped off. They've got their bank accounts in Uruguay or overseas and walk they doggies down Montevideo and Quintana every day.

[Jackson]

What I don't understand is how the "right wing" ever stood a chance against the leftists in Argentina back in the 70s. And they won, I guess.

How many right-wing conservative Argentines do you know? 1 in 100 at most?Gentlemen,

I know it titillates leftists to associate persons who believe in conservative economic principles with fascist military dictatorships, but it's not a valid comparison.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Guiller]

What I don't understand is how the "right wing" ever stood a chance against the leftists in Argentina back in the 70s. And they won, I guess.This could not have been achieved by standard democratic processes. The conservative minority was shocked in 1945 when Peron was elected president by a large percentage of the population. The sense of "correcting what ignorant people did" was the subject of about 60 years of history that followed that.


How many right-wing conservative Argentines do you know? 1 in 100 at most?A reasonable estimate can be made using the income figures. Grouping the largest income part of the population would yield 5 to 10 % of the 40 million total population. Chances are that most of these people live in the Northern areas of Buenos Aires and other wealthy neighborhoods. The forthcoming presidential election is a good sampling of raw data for this geographical distribution: just pay attention to the percentage of votes that go to Cristina Fernandez in different areas of the country.

[Guiller]

Gentlemen,

I know it titillates leftists to associate persons who believe in conservative economic principles with fascist military dictatorships, but it's not a valid comparison.

Thanks,

JacksonHi Jackson,

Although in philosophycal terms what you say is correct, history in South America only exhibited that link (I don´t know well the history in Central America to say something meaningful). This doesn't mean that this happened in other parts of the world, but I wouldn't say this is a propaganda or fake truth invented by obscure leftist intellectuals: go to any poor neighborhood of Buenos Aires and ask people about wheather this is a valid connection or not.

[Rock Harders]

Mongers-

Most casual visitors to Argentina forget or simply do not understand that the situation in Argentina in the mid-1970's was in some ways similar to Colombia in 80's or 90's meaning guerrilla groups, kidnappings, bombings, assassinations of public figures and a general lack of public order. As Guiller mentioned, this was (at least in part) a consequence of the 20-odd-year repression of democratic processes that began in 1955 with the "revolucion libertadora" which kicked Peron out of power and made it illegal to be a Peronist or even have Peronist political propaganda in your personal possession. By the mid 1970's the guerrilla groups (Montoneros, ERP amongst others) had become completely out of control with their near daily bombings, kidnappings, assassinations and heists. At the time the military junta kicked out Isabel Peron and vowed to restore order, they had the support of the Catholic Church and much more than 5-10% of the population. Within a year of the onset of the junta, the military went after these guerrilla groups and successfully killed about 10, 000 active guerrillas (a figure admitted to by both guerrilla groups) , essentially wiping them out.

Clearly after initially wiping out the guerrillas the military went too far with the repression and economically mismanaged the state to the point of ruin. In Chile there is still an active debate over whether the Pinochet regime was good for the country (in the long term) as he brought in US economists to put the economy in line which facilitates a sustained growth that continues to this day. In Argentina no such debate currently exists, IMO due to the economic management more than anything else but also possibly because as Videla said at his trial last year "yesterday's enemies are in power and from there, they are trying to establish a Marxist regime".

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[Daddy Rulz]

Gentlemen,

I know it titillates leftists to associate persons who believe in conservative economic principles with fascist military dictatorships, but it's not a valid comparison.

Thanks,

JacksonI think it's the same for a lot of the new right to make the same comparison with progressive thought and communism / socialism. As a progressive I've always appreciated the balance that my conservative brothers bring to the table. However I'm not seeing much of either in the opposing parties these days. I think they hide behind ideas to promote an agenda that's about power and not principle and rely on the media to propogate the idea that we (conservatives and progressives) are engaged in a class war while driving our country to ruin. I believe both parties are equally at fault in this.