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In order to inaugurate this section, I'll add something that I have noticed in my trips to Argentina over the last couple of years - you are much better off RENTING rather than buying real estate.
It appears that the rental rate for most apartment units in BsAs are about one-third of one percent of the value, per month. In most places, including the U.S., the usual rental rate is one percent of value per month.
With rents this low, relatively, you are far better off just signing a one, two, or three year lease. In doing so, you will also want to retain the services of an Argentine lawyer to assist you with the negotiations. They are not expensive and will save you money in the long-run by ensuring you're not being suckered. Ask for a referral if you need one.
-Uncle Otto
[blue]Thanks Otto for getting this section started.
If anyone wants a referral for an attorney, I'd be pleased to give you the name and phone number of the guy who did both of my leases. I negotiated back and forth for 2 weeks with the owner and the realtor until I hired an attorney, and within two days everything had been settled in my favor. My attorney rejected the realtor's lease and instead wrote the lease document himself, then accompanied me to the signing at the realtor's office, and even accompanied me to inspected the apartment with the owner prior to my occupation.
In the USA, I'd have no problem negotiating a residential lease, but when you're a stranger in a strange land, it seems that a lot of people will try to tell you what the SOP is, but then how do you know unless you hire someone who you know is in your corner? For me, it was well worth the $700.00AR.
Jackson[/blue]
Otto,
Thanks for starting this section.
Permit me to argue the other side of the rent:purchase coin.
It is true that rentals represent a bargain, comparatively speaking. (1/3 of one percent of purchase price). But it is also true that real estate prices are going up quickly in Buenos Aires...so now might be a good time to buy property as an investment. The economy is clearly on the upswing and there is growing confidence among consumers.....
Property in Recoleta, Puerto Madero, Palermo and Belgrano is selling at about 70% of its precrisis value now, up from 50% just a few months ago. New apartments are going for D1,600 square meter in Puerto Madero, 1,450 in Recoleta and the better parts of Palermo (Palermo Chico, Palermo "nuevo" (near the American Embassy), and 1200sm in Belgrano. Older properties go for far less.
All things considered, I leased property just a few months ago....Lately, though, I have been thinking about buying as an investment.....food for thought!
Also, agree with your comments and those of Jackson about working with a local attorney and realtor...they will save you money and time....
Its a great idea to start this section --- And my first question is about financing if you bought an apartment in B.A. --- How much down payment is needed and so on --- This subject came up on the plane last time on the the way home, and the guy said that now would be a good time to buy as pricing is down from what the true values normaly are --- exon
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Exon123
[i]Its a great idea to start this section --- And my first question is about financing if you bought an apartment in B.A. --- How much down payment is needed and so on --- This subject came up on the plane last time on the the way home, and the guy said that now would be a good time to buy as pricing is down from what the true values normaly are --- exon [/i][/QUOTE]
Financing home purchases is not easy in Argentina, certainly.
Provided that you are an Argentine resident and have a job, you may find mortgages of 2-digits interest rates (both in pesos and dollars). I remember that BankBoston of Argentina advertised during the 1990s "Ella 16, él 12" for mortgage lendings, that is, 16% per year in dollars for 12 years.
Yes... 16% per year in dollars. Ahd that under the frame of the "convertibilidad", the 1-1- peg. Today, it should be much higher.
Many people (perhaps most) expect that you buy you apartment with cash, using a payment scehdule of 40-30-30% of the total amount at 0-30-60 days of the transaction.
I remember having read a description of Gator in CH, who describes the procedure of buying an apartment in Colombia. That description fits 90% for Argentina.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Andres --- With those kind of terms no wonder the country is in resession --- It would seam that you would half to be crazy to put up all cash and with an economy like they have down theres just no way --- Guess were back to the old expession -- "If It Flys Fucks Or Floats --- Rent It" --- Exon
Exon123:
Even in thriving times, apartment purchases and lendings followed that pattern. There are several issues that make that happen:
1) Going into multiple payments becomes risky because people gauge when it results convenient to default payments. For instance, you may not pay the last 4 payments and the company may not sue you since getting into the legal system to execute a warranty is hard, slow, expensive and cumbersome.
2) Unlike in the US, opportunities arise only in few cities (especially in BA), so people plan to remain in the big city and therefore buying an apartment in BA becomes a sound decision after all.
3) With 20% unemployment, people prefer to own their own apartment than to rely on the availability future salaries for paying the rent. If you lose your job and own your apartment, at least you won't be a homeless.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Many thanks for starting this section.
My fantasy is to live in Buenos Aires eventually, not just come down as a sex tourist:-)
I'm really envious of Jackson and others who have managed to convert a lifestyle into a life.
So any posts about rental verses buying and any idea(s) about earning a living there - inport-export, etc is welcome by me.
This is a great topic! I also am thinking about moving here part-time in the next few years, or at least spending several months a year here. It goes way beyond mongering for me. BA is a spectacular city, I'm heading back in a few weeks for spanish class, all night tango and salsa, beautiful ladies, great food, the works. Last time I rented an apartment at Puert Madero, this time I have a great loft in San Telmo, spacious, old, and close to the plaza and great old pubs and cafes.
Any information about issues that arise in the purchase of flats, etc. would be great to hear.
Regarding owning/renting:
One thing you ought to keep in mind is that in Argentina, there is no legal concept or respect for property rights. One document signed by the [i]Presidente[/i] of the moment is essentially all that it takes to deprive you of your entire ownership interst in your $50,000 or $100,000 house. Stealing from the foreigners who've invested in your nation is a long-time habit of socialist third world countries, Argentina being no exception. So [i]caveat emptor[/i].
By way of example, we need consider only the recent crisis, when the government decreed that all commerical notes, mortgages, etc... which were written in United States Dollars were null and void, to be replaced with payment in Argentine Pesos (at a third the true value).
During this time, if I am to understand correctly, the government also forbade mortgage foreclosure proceedings. When given the opportunity to skip one's mortgage payment but at the same time being able avoid being kicked out of one's home, guess what Argentine multitudes did? This is a big part of the reason why there's no mortgage market to speak of in that country......
-Uncle Otto
Definitely follow the advice of Otto, Andres and Jackson when it comes to this topic. While property might seem cheap down there you might think again if that nice apartment turns out to be not so nice. I'm not sure about liens against property down there either. Maybe Andres knows more about that. I know in Brazil, you can do all the due diligence you want, retain an excellent lawyer and still get cheated or there could be a lien against the property from 10 years prior! I'm not sure if BA is like that or not.
BA is a great city to live in. Jackson is truly lucky to live in such a wonderful city. The other great thing is that your hobbying budget probably would be reduced if you live there. There is no shortage of regular girls you can meet/date there. Granted they might not be as hot as some of our favorite working girls but dating normal girls is fun too.
Have fun!
[blue]Hi,
The cool thing about dating "regular" girls in BA, and I do this every week, is that if you find yourself at the end of the evening heading towards a "peck-on-the-cheek" finish, you don't get aggravated, you don't get pissed, you just simply put her in a cab, and 15 minutes later you're down at one of the clubs negotiating with another chica.
Of course, the really cool thing is that your "regular" girl also knows you have options, so your percentage of wasted dates are much less than in the USA.
Life is good!
Jackson[/blue]
Thank You Andres --- Very good information and useful too everyone --- On my way home a month ago I picked up a copy of the Buenos Aires Herald at the airport, a fascinating read I might add, but theres a large section of apartments for rent --- Since this new thread has started Ive gone through the rental section of which many of them have websites and pricing --- theres some good valve in renting an apartment rather than a hotel and there again I like the privacy of an apartment rather than the service of a hotel --- The big expenses in visiting Argentina are airfare and lodging, course Im not including Chics which is not a fixed cost --- The airfare you can't do much about but housing you can --- And the longer you stay the cheaper it gets by the day --- My next trip will be for a month or longer which leaves me no choice but to rent an apartment --- I'd like to ask Dick Head how hes handleing this problem ? --- Dick Head knows real value when he see's it !!! ---- exon
I handled this problem by having my amigovia rent a 2 room plus kitchen apartment in Congresso for two months with an option for a third. It cost me 1350 pesos total, 200 of which I can allegedly get back at the end of the lease although I am not betting the ranch that I will. They definitely try to charge gringos more. The apartment is totally furnished including pots and pans and dishes, one set of sheets, but no towels. The pots and pans were shit so I bought a set at the Carrefour on sale which also turned out to be shit. Too bad so sad but they will last for the six weeks I am here. So 1350 works out to a lttle less than $500 but utilities are extra and no bills have arrived yet so I don't know how much they are. I may just not pay them and let the owner keep the deposit since I am sure my amigovia will piss it away before I return in January and give me some song and dance. We'll see. I'll let you know how much they are. This apartment is not luxurious and was not clean at all when we rented it. But it is a good size; there are many one room or efficiency type apartments in the microcenter but that is too small for me for six weeks. Apartments are definitely the way to go, especially if you like to cook. I have had good luck getting the girls to screw me more cheaply by inviting them to dinner. Plus, you are a neighbor and not a tourist so people don't jerk you around as much.
And having a 30-35 peso whorehouse within walking distance represents substantial savings, as does living right on the bus and subway line, as does buying beer at the grocery store (of course, you could do that in a hotel also).
DH
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
[i]I'm not sure about liens against property down there either. Maybe Andres knows more about that. I know in Brazil, you can do all the due diligence you want, retain an excellent lawyer and still get cheated or there could be a lien against the property from 10 years prior! I'm not sure if BA is like that or not.
[/i][/QUOTE]
Exactly the same as in Brazil. That's why owners require a property in the Capital Federal as a warranty and not one in the Provincia de Buenos AIres, because the Provincial one could be easily counterfeited and hardly tracked.
As far as I know, the average timespan for evicting a delinquent tenant is 2 years. Meanwhile, the tenant can literally destroy your property as retaliation. It happen only once in 100 times, but it happen.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thanks Dick Head --- And thats incredable --- If I read you right your paying something like $250 USD per month for housing in B.A. --- And by cooking yourself --- Your paying next to nothing to live there --- Like $15 per day --- Im using the Dazzler Hotel as a bench mark --- Their rate is something close to $45 per night --- Its an OK place, but if you extend that out to 30 days your looking at about $1,440 USD for a month --- Where Im coming from is say a monger goes first class by your standards --- Rents an apartment in the $750 USD range --- Thats leaves a week or better of TLN amor with your favorite Chica and your at the same figure as staying at the Dazzler Hotel for 30 days --- Or about two weeks of amor if you just rent your Chica by the hour --- Very cost affective, I like that --- Sure theres maid service and a few extras but the basic bottom line is you've got that $45 dollar Dazzler figure down to about $25 dollars a day and the rest to play with --- Where Im going with this is I'd like to get the number for a 30 trip to B.A. down to about 3 to 4 grand plus airfare and yet not cheat myself on quality --- I like to go first class or at least business class --- Another idea is to put your favorite amigovia on salary, but of course this cuts down on your mongering time and many of us do have a wandering eye --- Food for thought --- Thanks Dick Head and hope to meet you someday --- I'll be back down in less than 90 days --- Exon