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[QUOTE=Lueck Hoff]With all due respect, my opinion was only a reaction to a former post from jackson.[/QUOTE]You are saying (in a thread named racism in Argentina) that if Obama wins the US elections then Europeans will change their minds about American citizens, and a long explanation about international diplomatics. So what have that to do with racism in Argentina? I don't see any connection.
The argentinians are like passive spectators. They think the government will and should fix all problems. They seem to forget that each and every one of them is part of the society. If the society is a mess, how is it possible to govern?
Whenever an accident occurs, they blame the government for lack of control.
It is always someone else's fault. The argentinian people is the cause of 99.9% of the problems they have.
Everytime, they dislike something the government does, they gather and make a mess, make noise, and they smash things up. Their worker unions are ridiculous, they are so uncivilized. Sometimes, I don't know if they are football hooligans or union members. When they strike, they don't only mess up for other people, but also for themselves. The ex-owners of Aerolineas, Marsans, surely commited many mistakes, but how can you run an airline when they strike ALL the time. Well, they couldn't, so Marsans left. The Argentinians deserve the mess that they are in.
The Argentinians lack integrity and pride, in order to do what it takes to make a better society. In my home country, no one would even think of bribeing a police officer, the police officers, wouldn't accept them either, not only because it is illegal, but also because they have integrity and pride.
[QUOTE=Geo Eye]argentine people ARE the most racist people I have ever met, even when their world was crumbling around them with the devaluation of their currency they still felt they were better than everyone else.
Hell, I have even seen the beggers on the street complaint when I give them just spare change.
It has always been like this and it will always be like this.
Must be the spaniard blood in them, which I consider the most arrogant and most inhumane, evil people in the history of mankind.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Geo Eye]Must be the spaniard blood in them, which I consider the most arrogant and most inhumane, evil people in the history of mankind.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is why Spanish history is so similar to Argentina's.
[QUOTE=Geo Eye]Must be the spaniard blood in them, which I consider the most arrogant and most inhumane, evil people in the history of mankind.[/QUOTE]Spaniard royalty is in fact, not Spaniard but original from france. And the history it's not about the people, history is about the royalty. I would also add that every country in the world has a dark history.
[QUOTE=Mike Cockburn]The argentinians are like passive spectators. They think the government will and should fix all problems.
Everytime, they dislike something the government does, they gather and make a mess, make noise, and they smash things up. [/QUOTE]Making noise and smashing things up doesn't sound to me like something a passive spectator does.
Well, they smash things up because nothing happens.
They put fire on the trains because they are arriving or departing late and are in bad condition. They don't seem to see that they shoot themselves in the foot. Repair costs drives money away from new investments.
Who would put a new costly train in a neighbourhood, were the old one was burn down by its own passengers. It is not a coincidence that the worst neighbourhoods have the worst trains.
What I mean is that they don't take responsability. The city is ful of litter, not because of the government aren't cleaning, but that the argentinians throw litter all over. The government is cleaning the streets, but the argentians are "faster" in making it dirty.
They are spectators in the sense that they think the government should solve everything, but it can't.
[QUOTE=Aqualung]Making noise and smashing things up doesn't sound to me like something a passive spectator does.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mike Cockburn]They are spectators in the sense that they think the government should solve everything, but it can't.[/QUOTE]Government should enforce respect, it's a lack of respect littering and throwing stuff in the streets and making your dog to shit in the middle of the street. Government doesn't care, they are making money and living in a clean envirnonment only inside doors.
However, it takes a lot of time to understand, but there is a reason: collective efforts does not works because of the 'garantism'. Means there is no punishment. Argentine culture is based in individualism more than collective efforts to maintain a common thing. For example: In one of the buildings where I have 3 apts I have proposed to get a faster connection and share the hi-speed internet with a powerful router and every neighbor would save money. In fact, all of them are currently paying for high speed internet and all but one use wireless routers, all routers password protected. In summer time, mosquito repelents are by everywhere and I remember one or two summers ago, there was no supply due a bigger mosquito invasion, gov. Does not fumigates.
Macri [url]http://www.barts.com.ar/barts/articles/articles_detail.php?recordID=new_major[/url] was elected since many beleived, he would remove the trash digglers from the streets, to "clean-up" the city but he didn't, seems the administration is only focused into recovering their investment.
Garantism has also to do with the fear people fear about military intervention and heavy police enforcement. That would make the city look cleanner, but at the same time, it would remove the spirit of freedom you can feel in every corner of BA with the exception of Puerto Madero.
Incredibly, levels of violence (good neighborhoods) are not comparable with other big cities in the world. It's true many would like to see cleanner streets, but many others consider more important that freedom spirit that makes Buenos Aires City unique.
The Argentine "racism" it's consequently a different racism that you can see in other countries, as there are equal oportunities for anyone. The origin for this variation of "racism" (In Argentina, that you wrongly call racism is about some individuals who feel themselves separated from the rest of the society, but it's not a drilled generalized idea from bigger organizations encouraging to punish the 'inferior races') it's about individuals who either feel themselves superiors or fear of a group of people from a different origin. This variation of racism may be related to the "garantism" the government and the whole population is fairly proud about.
[QUOTE=Geo Eye]I guess when I say "inhumane people", I think of how the Cortes and De Soto.[/QUOTE]Inhumane people sounds like a contradiction, inhumane humans.
I respect your point of view but I would say that Hernan Cortes was very human, a human motherfucker as many others in history. But a human after all.
Mongers,
You can sum up the attitudes and behavior of Argentines like this; they want and demand all sorts of rights, but they do not want the responsibility that comes along with those rights.
Suerte,
Rock Harders
MCSE.
Garantism. One learns a new word every day.
You mean that the government acts for a greater (common) good?
In other countries there is no need for heavy controls, to get the citizens to behave well, because it is in the culture.
Long ago, even before my time, in my own homecountry, there was much more control, and the people behaved well out of fear, but then the control was removed, nevertheless the people didn't return to their old bad habits.
Rather, it is "self" control. If you throw litter in my homecountry, someone (ordinary person) might make you pick it up, even by force.
The collective efforts in Argentina are in strong decline.
My impression is that people don't care about those outside their own neighbourhood. A person from barrio norte, has nothing in common with a person in a really poor area. In a figurative sense, they don't speak the same language. Who want's to be around sick and dirty people?
I myself feel a bit uneasy around the worst cases. I care for my health.
It is a shame, that it has gone too far.
The society has "abandonded" this people.
The question is why?
Even if a country is short on cash, the basic needs must be fulfilled first.
[QUOTE=Rock Harders]Mongers,
You can sum up the attitudes and behavior of Argentines like this; they want and demand all sorts of rights, but they do not want the responsibility that comes along with those rights.
Suerte,
Rock Harders[/QUOTE]This is true, Mr. Harders and it is one of the many things wrong with Argentines.
I think their biggest problem is they are so closed-minded, they cannot think outside the box. It is like they walk around with blinder on, not aware of the outside world.
[QUOTE=Geo Eye]This is true, Mr. Harders and it is one of the many things wrong with argentines.
I think their biggest problem is they are so closed-minded, they cannot.
Think outside the box. It is like they walk around with blinder on, not.
Aware of the outside world.[/QUOTE]Well, looking at your strange punctuation, seems like you, yourself, had crushed your head too many times against the walls of the box.
[QUOTE=Mike Cockburn]In other countries there is no need for heavy controls, to get the citizens to behave well, because it is in the culture.
Long ago, even before my time, in my own homecountry, there was much more control, and the people behaved well out of fear, but then the control was removed, nevertheless the people didn't return to their old bad habits.[/QUOTE]Sure, it's like training a dog, some dogs may take more time to learn, others are faster, if you impose a new rule for a short time and you don't enforce it, the old bad habits will raise again. An example it's the Porteno law for non smoking inside of the restaurants / bars. Has been respected, and you don't see people smoking inside restaurants.
BTW, what's your home country?
[QUOTE=Dickhead] And, there are way more scoundrels here on a percentage basis than in the US. Maybe 2-3 times as many. [/QUOTE]DH,
I would hope we don't underestimate the number of scoundrels in the US. The amount of fraud, corruption and general malfeasance in the US is nothing to sneeze at. It is much more behind the scenes, if you will, in the US, but, at least in some areas, pervasive. The amount of corporate fraud / corruption has been close to out of control for quite some time, and one need go no further than to research the staggering number of companies who have worked a deal to avoid prosecution, not to mention those who were prosecuted and found gulity, and not to mention those who have not been charged, but continue with their nefarious ways. The healthcare system in the US is a veritable cesspool of fraud and corruption, from the public system to much of the private. The cozy relationship between any number of corporations and the government, and the favors doled out as a result, well, let us take a guess as to those numbers.:)
I'll stop there, but the list of guilty parties would be quite a list indeed and covering a wide area. Much deference to "doing the right thing" has been maimed, if not taken out back and shot over the past 25 years. My take is that unlike Argentina, and many other countries in south america, and elsewhere, the legal and ethical transgressions in the states tend to be hidden behind a veil of supposed honesty, suits and crisp haircuts. Thieves and slimeballs regardless. My 2 cents.