Renting Apartments - Long Term Rentals (2 years or more)

Renting Apartments. Long Term Rentals (2 years or more).

I know there innumerable places in Buenos Aires where you can rent a place on via the internet on a monthly basis and I'm pretty sure that one pays the extranjero price because of it. I'm looking to lease a place for maybe a year and was wondering what were the pros and cons as well as perhaps some leads on a good place to look. Do you think that inquiring about discounts for longer stays at more gringo-oriented places is an options? Thanks for input.

By the way, Gaby at Diagonal Norte 885 Apt 3-G made my socks roll up and down.

[QUOTE=Charbuck]I know there innumerable places in Buenos Aires where you can rent a place on via the internet on a monthly basis and I'm pretty sure that one pays the extranjero price because of it. I'm looking to lease a place for maybe a year and was wondering what were the pros and cons as well as perhaps some leads on a good place to look. Do you think that inquiring about discounts for longer stays at more gringo-oriented places is an options? Thanks for input.

By the way, Gaby at Diagonal Norte 885 Apt 3-G made my socks roll up and down.[/QUOTE]There's a lot of info already posted by mongers experienced in that matter. Just some tips.

Renting long term is not easy in Buenos Aires. Even native Porteños go through nightmarish times to find an apartment to rent, especially in these times of seller's market.

The biggest barrier is finding a "warrantor", someone with properties in Capital Federal (those of provincias aren't accepted) who can accept to include their property in the contract as a warranty for delinquent payment of the tenant.

Second one is, once the person accepts to rent to you, getting all the details worked out: No debts to the utility companies (Metrogas, Edesur, Telefónica, etc) the apartment working properly (no leaks, heating and A / C working, etc) Landlords are used to take all the advantage they can, not caring very much about your satisfaction.

Third one is doing the utilities journey (get an account in Telefónica, or transfering the existing one, one in Metrogas, one for the cable TV / Internet, etc) Usually, long term leases don't include these (at least outside the tourist areas)

You have to consider how long you plan to stay in BA. Having an apartment at your name is convenient, but also cumbersome. What if the upstairs neighbor has a leak that damages your roof and you are 10000 km away? Better to have someone to visit regularly the place.

Hope this helps,

Andres

Charbuck,

Not an easy task. Many things to consider. It can be done of course, but your best bet is to get on the ground here in a short term arrangement, and begin alot of research. My advise would be to chat up other expats to see if they have been able to do what you desire (get contacts) scour the newspapers, online blogs, expat websites, etc. Much of this depends on how long you plan to stay. Is it a year and then gone? If you plan on arriving here with a long term arrangement in hand, without furnishings, you will be faced with a daunting task, as outlined by Andres. Good luck.

In addition to the accurate Andre's post, the minimum term lease in Buenos Aires City it's 2 years. Expect also programmed rises on the rental

Behold: There are enough of us that spend enough time in BA that would consider the option of apartment renting. The weekly furnished apartments are nice in that they are furnished and all utilities are active, there are many of them and they are owned and managed by others. The are however very expensive for visitors staying more than a a few weeks.

The rental of normal apartments is complicated yet the price differential is substantial. I believe there are decent 2 and 3 bedroom apartments available for about $500 US with long term lease. If one adds about $15,000 for furniture and appliances then one has a nice unit. Averaged over 3 years the this cost is 420$/ month. Now if 3 guys would split the unit or commit to 920 x 4 = 3680 $ per year they would have use of the place up to 4 months each. If---IF---IF they could rent it for just a few months a year at the higher tourist price this cost would be reduced significantly.

Hence it pays to rent a decent sized apartment in a very desirable area so that is not just another "me too" apartment.

Are they 3 or more of us that are willing to try to do this?

I am.

[QUOTE=BundaLover]

The rental of normal apartments is complicated yet the price differential is substantial. I believe there are decent 2 and 3 bedroom apartments available for about $500 US with long term lease. [/QUOTE]While there is a substantial difference in rent between furnished / unfurnished apartments and also the prospect of a cut in rent for a long term lease, $500US is still not likely to get you a decent 2 or 3 bedroom apartment in much of what is considered "desirable" Capital Federal. Maybe two years ago, but not now. Not that it would hurt to look, but your chances of success with that price in mind would be pretty close to nil. Definitely nil in Recoleta, Barrio Norte, or Palermo.

I agree with DoggyBoy, also, Bunda, with all due respect you forgot to add:

- Building Expenses (expensas) this is an extra US$100

- Internet and cable, a reliable one, as the one we use in BARTS (fibertel) it's about US$75 per month.

- Power and Light, Gas, etc. (especially if you use controlled heated floors in the winter, it's another US$100)

- Landline phone + installation of the line.

Plus, cleanning service, maintainance, etc.

In addition, contracts are for 2 TWO years, not three, not one, and the broker will ask for 1 month commission, so you should add in the expenses item plus the certificates and finding a warantor and at least one month deposit.

I'm seeing in the market that several furnished rented apartments owners are returning to the internal market (2 years lease) since as an owner you don't keep the apartment with at least 75% of occupancy, it's better to rent it for a 2 years lease.

I think that (this is legal and actually possible) if 3 buddies buy a US$100.000 apartment it's more profittable, buying a third part of a property it's legal. You don't pay rent and you make profit and the investment it's not that high.

Mongers-

Keep in mind that there are several other possibilities available for apartments other than gringo rip-off short terms and 2 year guarantor only leases. For example, I originally had a 6 month contract (there are 6 month and 2 year leases here, although 2 year is more airtight, as it is essentially a cessation of ownership for the 2 year period of the lease) that became a month to month at the end of the initial 6 months. I had to get the guarantor (person to put up their property in case I refused to vacate) and put up a 2 months security deposit. However, the advantage is I pay the internal, Argentine rate AND I have the flexibility to get out of the apartment with minimal notice. Also, I told the owner of the apartment I would under no circumstances pay a realtor's commision because I did not find the apartment through a realtor, and the owner begrudgingly agreed. Another, less desireable option (IMO) is to get a no guarantor, pre-paid upfront 2 year lease.

Suerte,

Dirk Diggler

Thanks for the comments. I was trying to avoid the purchase and renovate model. Ownership is a different level of resposibility. Multiple owners is very difficult to manage. Buying is difficult but owning, managing, agreeing on sale of assets is very challenging. The only reason would be the expectation of good returns, local expertise and perhaps a project that is larger than one person is willing to do. I was hoping to lower the bar and just take advantage of the differential of long term unfurnished rental pricing vs. The monthly furnished tourist prices. I have seen 300US apartments (yes it was last year) rented to Portenos and they werent bad.

Hence no ownership except of the furnishings and appliances and a monthly rental obgligation with the expectation of a nice apartment for a few months a year. I understand that one does not get anything for nothing. I hoped that cutting out the ownership and just pay for use with no expectation of capital return model was viable. And if the place were rented at tourist prices the cost would be partially coverred. I'm not looking to make money on this. I'm looking to have a superior apartment available for a reasonable price a few months per year. I still think the model works. 3 or four guys sign the lease and agree that when they dont want it they have a local rental agency try to rent it. They calculate their annual cost based upon NO income and all expenses and commit.

If they can rent it a few months at 3 x their monthly then its a shared income. Studios are going for 300-400 in nice hoods now per week. This place could be priced to rent and beat all competition.

The key is a few people that know that they want to be in BA for a few months each year for the next several years. They dont want to pay 150US for a hotel but they like rooms of that quality.

[QUOTE=MCSE]I agree with DoggyBoy, also, Bunda, with all due respect you forgot to add:

I'm seeing in the market that several furnished rented apartments owners are returning to the internal market (2 years lease) since as an owner you don't keep the apartment with at least 75% of occupancy, it's better to rent it for a 2 years lease.

.[/QUOTE]MCSE,

This is interesting. I would like to understand this. Is this because there is now a change in the supply / demand situation that there are now sufficient apartments for tourists and it is not as profitable as it has been for the last several years? Or. Is there something about these apartments or their owners that is causing this to occur.

One would assume that owners are rational.

Salary rised and argentine employees have more money to spend in 2 years leases, consequentely, 2 years leases raised. Back in 2002 mainstream short term apartments rentals was oriented to the local market (international assignations, students from other provinces, etc) basically was common to see very bad maintained and old crappy furniture apartments. Landlords seen an opportunity to satisfy a more sophisticated clientele, who was disposed to pay more for a better product, so they invested money in renovation, furnishing and services. Suddenly 2 things happened at the same time: The news got spreaded by the owners and many invested in order to get a better return for their investment, BUT, Argentina, due it's low prices attracted a lot of cheap-cheap (some call them "rats" / "rata" tourists / expats) In addition, several internet-based agencies, as [url]www.rentaltravelservices.com[/url] (the one I visit the most) started to list apartments for rent in Buenos Aires. In 2002 a research in a search engine could return as much as 10 of these websites, and today may return houndreds. Today, many of these are nothing but scams, and as the same apartment can be seen in several websites with different rates on each one, it's easy to understand why the agencies encourage the owners to low the prices in order to gain the prerrogative to do business faster.

As an owner I would prefer to get the rental on my bank account each month and do my business other than keep emailing the agencies about my availability, interrupting my business to do check-in's and check-out's (especially when renting weekly) and the concern to maintain the apartment, pay the bills, and supporting the bills when the apartment remained empty. Also, recreational / vacational-time targeted apartments results in party, noises, and in some cases crack ***** type looking girls on the entrance of the building and it's embarrassing to attend the classical owners-meeting and being attacked by your neighbors. Since a few years ago, some bulding administrations are trying to obtain votes to deny the right to do whatever you want with your property. As this could be inconstitutional, a huge amount of non-strictly residencial apartments buildings (apto profesional) do not allow both models agencies and labour agencies in their statements. So, this is another important factor to follow the path of the 2 years lease.

In my personal case, I have spent a lot of time and resources to improve, programming and design my own agency / website, which in my opinion it's the best one on earth. So, No sense to rent the apartments for 2 years leases in my case.

For sure there is a difference on the rates between 2 years lease and weekly rentals, but the risk and the time spent on the short term rentals it's more too. Of course you want to do nothing but kill yourself when you have 2 requests for the same week / month and none for the previous one, and this happens all the time.

As said before, I have seen several owners going back to the classic 2 years leases, this (removing short term apartments from the marketshare) will probably equalize the old ratio 1 = 3 (three times more a short term compared to a 2 years lease) which now may vary depending on several factors as services, quality on the furniture and maintainance, but I think that it's close to 1 = 1,5 based on a 75% occupancy ratio AND CONSIDERING ALL the expenses and C. E.

And finally, I want to clarify that I don't want to pose as the guy who knows everything about everything, these observations are from reading the newspapers daily, researching daily and working daily. So these observations are attached to my own point of view, you guys can do your own resarch and we can exchange points of view.

[QUOTE=BundaLover]MCSE,

This is interesting. I would like to understand this. Is this because there is now a change in the supply / demand situation that there are now sufficient apartments for tourists and it is not as profitable as it has been for the last several years? Or. Is there something about these apartments or their owners that is causing this to occur.

One would assume that owners are rational.[/QUOTE]

MCSE,

Thank you for your insight.

I have heard about the fact that to get a 2 year lease here, you need a "Guarantor". The "Guarantor" is basically a very close friend or a relative who attaches his / her property (like a "lien") to the 2 year lease so that in case you fail to pay the rent, the property attached as "lien' pays up the rent.

Now, because of this aspect, its become very difficult for normal people to rent apartments in Argentina on long leases. The laws are such that its quiet tough to oust people from the house on a long lease, even if the rent is not paid.

Now, I was in a deep discussion with a very educated local person yesterday over coffee. The person informed me that a new bill has been passed in the Argentine parliment in last 1 week or so. The bill is regarding the provision of "guarantor". It gives a new option for "Guarantor" to the existing one. Now, one will be able to buy something like Insurance policy from the bank. This insurance policy, one would be paying monthly instalments and in case a mishap happens, you are unable to pay the rent, the insurance will pay up the rent! The insurance premiums will probably on the high side but thats what it is going to be.

Interestingly, I believe that you don't even need a bank account to avail this facility.

Now, before all you mongers start getting mad at me and say that its bullshit. Their is a apparently a detailed newspaper report on this in castellano, which I would be attaching on this thread for you to view with your own eyes and diagnose yourselves.

If this happens, it would really be a great help and make it a lot easier to take long term lease like I am planning to do.

Enjoy and Live in BA!

Captain, I'm sure you are being accurate about what you are reporting.

I haven't finished my house renting experience, so I've only written about it in relation to a possible racist encounter I had while searching. But part of what I wrote about contained some info about this subject.

The Argentine lawmakers can pass whatever bill they want to, but I don't think it will do any good in the short term.

There is currently a "seguro de caucion" available, which is what you are talking about, unless they are going to implement a new instrument that is similar. It is basically an insurance policy, or bond, that one can take out on a contract to ensure enforcement of said contract. The cost is somewhere between 10% and 20% of the transaction. Maybe the law will make it affordable at a lower rate or something? That amount of money is still pretty big when you consider most renters that have this problem of a garantia.

Already some people accept seguro de caucions now, just not very many. It is actually much more common in Cordoba (according to my lead programmer, who is cordobense and only moved to Capital Federal about three years ago)

I have offered seguro de caucion to three different owners and they have all turned it down.

The reason the garantia is required is because, as you say, the property laws here are geared toward the occupants of the property, and not the owner. Even though the owner has a contract that says someone will occupy the house for a certain length of time and pay a monthly amount, and leave at the end of that, if the person occupying the the property chooses to ignore everything in the contract, the owner will play hell trying to get that person out of his property. Particularly if the occupant has children - you can almost forget it.

I believe that there is a little more than just worrying about a person doing this - they are also worried about the person's background a lot of times. It's actually a fine line, but one of the reasons that they want a property garantia and not a bond or insurance policy is because they want to rent to someone in their own "class". They don't want to rent to a Paraguayo, or a Boliviano, or someone from the campo, etc. It is their home and they want to "protect" it from those unsavory elements. People who can afford to buy property do not fall into the "unsavory" class, at least not in their eyes.

Now, I got that from a real estate agent. I am absolutely certain that not all Argentinos think this way, but I do feel that a lot of the older people with money and property ABSOLUTELY DO think this way.

I think the seguro de caucion route could be great and one day may make things better, but in the short term, I think that owners will choose to ignore that option, no matter what the law says (like paying taxes)

The best way to deal with this problem (imho) is to care more about the property owner's rights. The US is starting to see some problems in this area as laws are passed that make it more difficult to evict someone.