2012 Elections in the USA
Well the impact of the recent interpretation of the "corporate right to free speech" is starting."Swift Boat Centeral" here we come. The fact that Mitt is using hedge fund $$ to indirectly issue personal attacks against the crazy old ass-hole doesn't reflect my personal feeling about Newt, Mitt nor Obama. This is merely a comment of the further erosion of a working republic and destruction of the concept of free elections. With virtually unlimited corp contributions to "super pac's" anyone with enough money can further any cause and actually effect the results of an election.
There are intelligent educated people in the USA who still believe that sudam was responsible for 911-karl rove is maybe the most effective propagandist since herman gerbels. I am not implying the karl rove is in any may in league with gerbel's beliefs-only that they were both masters of manipulation so that even sophisticated, intelligent people can be and are mislead.
In Argentina, elections are manipulated by increasing pensions and welfare by 100 pesos. In the USA, there maybe us$100 million dollar slush funds for independent "super political action committees or PACs" which will buy propaganda tv time and public relations assistance that might sell the impression the black in white and white is black.
The democracts will do the same thing that mitt is starting. Another level of sleaze corrupts the process:
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/us/politics/restore-our-future-attack-ads-harm-gingrich-in-iowa.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha2[/url]
This boy might end-up voting for Mitt, but still wants to call him on contributing to the destruction of the election process. Maybe a pragmatist has no real choice, but to use the process and his wall street connections to his advantage. The real test of his courage will come when it is time to regulate.
Or control the hedge fund barons and wall street investment banks. Does Mitt have the integrity to possibly bite the hand that feeds him or funds his pac slush funds? Time will tell.
In the past, Mitt has been a first rate problem solver with a first rate mind-who has been driven by data, not political ideology. This type of person could put off the fall of the USA by a full generation or more or advert boom and gloom. I hope that he hasn't sold his soul for power. The devil knows how negotiate with the best.
Mitt Myths! Bob, look carefully. Lots of money can paint lots of pretty pictures.
[QUOTE=Miami Bob;420370]Mitt has been a first rate problem solver with a first rate mind-who has been driven by data, not political ideology.[/QUOTE]Romney may have started as a businessman, but today he is a politician pure and simple. The critical problem he wants to solve is how to get into the White House. As a Massachusetts native and Romney watcher for two decades, I believe it is fair to say, his empty rhetoric notwithstanding, there is little evidence he has a real vision for the country. He didn't for Massachusetts and as a result was a very mediocre chief executive.
In 1994, in his first campaign, he ran as a liberal Republican against Ted Kennedy and got creamed. He ran successfully for governor in Massachusetts as a moderate Republican, as he had to to win. In 2008, as a candidate for President, he ran again as a moderate against the establishment's favorite, John McCain, and got creamed. Now running for Pres, he has morphed into a born-again right wing ideologue; ignoring, denying or distorting every liberal and moderate position he ever took.
The great antipathy to him from his fellow Republican leaders, the citizens of Massachusetts and three quarters of Republican voters stems from the sense that he has no core beyond a lust for office. The establishment Republicans' recent warming up to him is all about panic that Obama is a slam dunk winner, should any of the other midgets in the race capture the Rs nomination.
What has driven Romney's ambitions, since he first entered politics is a highly personal agenda which has to do with redeeming his father's reputation which was destroyed in the presidential election in 1968. George Romney was a former auto exec and popular governor of Michigan well positioned to beat Nixon in the Republican primaries. But, after he publicly admitted US generals in Vietnam had "brainwashed" him into erroneously thinking that the war was being won, his candidacy and political ambitions imploded. Mitt revered his Dad and wants to redeem the Romney name.
We saw what "W" did in Iraq, as a result of his daddy complex.
The one constant for Romney, since he was first tapped to rescue the Denver Olympics, has been his place in the inner circles of the corporate oligarchs. He actually believes corporations are people. Of course, they are his kind of people. He is as likely to bite the hands of the big money interests, as John McCain would have cut defense spending or Obama will someday tap the ANWAR oil fields in Alaska.
If Romney wins, it will be back to the days of cowboy capitalism and if that floats your boat, better keep a life jacket handy.
He who pays the piper calls the tune!
[QUOTE=Miami Bob;420370]Does Mitt have the integrity to possibly bite the hand that feeds him or funds his pac slush funds? Time will tell. I hope that he hasn't sold his soul for power.[/QUOTE]The election cycle has hardly begun and to-date here are the numbers on Mitt's largest campaign contributions:
Goldman Sachs: $367, 200.
Credit Suisse Group: $203, 750.
Morgan Stanley: $199, 800.
HIG Capital: $186, 500.
Barclays: $157, 750.
Nuf said!
Mitt's personal worth is in the hundreds of millions of dollars-he could aford to literally buy it
Do they give double green stamps when you purchase an election?
Ask mr exxon123 about mormon $$ and power. The are not comments about the actually religious believes of the church of the later day saints, but the political arm of the cultural group. Mitt's religuos beliefs have nothing to do with these comments. I have zero problem votong for a person of the mormon faith
WELL Mr Exxon123-I aggree and posted that I would bet big that Mitt has been hanging w / the Devil
This could be McCain all over again: a good guy with a good history sells out to the radical right and christian right. Bachman would make a great stand-in or Palin or how about Santorum. The reasons that Newt insults Mitt are the very reasons I would vote for him: data and factually driven decision and policy making rather than idelogical belief.
I am absolutely shocked Exxon-some very wealthy peopleh hide money and avoid taxes
Are you implying that some Mormons along with many others have used swiss bankers to avoid taxes. What does this have to do with anything?
Well, I guess it is always good to keep posting on a site that caters to internal travelers and ex-patriots to report all your assets and income or you could be in for some big problems. Follow the rules or pay the piper.
Exxon-what point are you trying to make?
Mitt is laundering money? Every mormon is X; therefore Mitt is X. The article you linked says nothing about mormons nor Mitt. It is an article about hiding money off shore.
I started this thread because I am assuming that the upcoming USA elections will involve Mitt vs Obama and Mitt was starting to flex his financial muscle. It saddens me to think that any of the other folks running might actually become the leader of the USA, I don't want to turn this into the other political thread-which I haven't looked at in years.
Are you telling me that I am stupid or lack any brains or common sense because I will not prejudge mitt because of his religion? The new york times has been doing a series of in depth looks and the republican candidates pasts. The people who were in mitt's be school study group say the same things about him that his co-workers at bain said and the mass political people all said: he is a brilliant hard working guy who has no real ideology except problem solving based upon data and the facts If finding that description by a variety of different people at different points in his life is offense to you, so it will be.
I subscribe to a number of public policy publications and the policy wonks from both the left and right find him to be a very impressive intellect who is pragmatic and gets the job done. I voted for Obama before and may do so again, but mitt has been an impressive guy. I am concerned that he has made so many compromises and promises that they may interfere with him doing the job of the presidency in the same manner that he has performed in the past-which is a shame. The man who repaired the Olympics, built bain capital and ran Massachusetts would likely be a great president. The mitt of days past was never a doctrine anything, but a brilliant problem solver and this country has lots of big problems that need practical solutions.
The mitt at the "debates" was not the mitt who accomplished so many things in his past. Newt is probably right-he was re-building himself to fit into the polling data as much as he could. Almost too much so. I would not vote before I would vote for newt.
Well mr exxon123 explain yourself or go back to filling yourself with hate for any one mormon. I'm not a mormon. I am disappointed with you mr 123-I expected better.
I agree with david33, the religion is not all that spiritually appealing to me. I also see what can be done to the new testament by political operators and also scratch my head. In 1960 it was said that JFK would be controlled by the pope.
This statement almost doesn't deserve a response BUT.
[QUOTE=David_33;420429]
If Romney gets in, he will follow his religion's dictates of only dealing with other Mormons when at all possible. [/QUOTE]
My response is very simple. Maybe the stupidiest thing ever said on this board! Congrats on becoming the latest "village idiot". Crawl back under your rock fool. You understand little about mormons and / or the man Mitt Romney. Take your obvious liberal hate spew and get back to commenting on chicas. Oh, I forgot, you rarely if ever post anything valuable about the putas. IALOTFLMAO. Happy mongering All except for the uniformed and uneducated David33, Toymann
ps. for the benefit of the board please post all credible links to "said docrines". IALOTFLMAO again.
Toymann-I am not disagreeing, but there is a grain of truth to what david says
I tried to bring in mormon financing on a little something I tried to put togehter. The investment banker is greek orthodox. He told me that the mormon investors wanted mormons involved in the operation or they wouldn't invest. The operation's guy had a great cv and is a very pleasant guy who is it hard not to like. I couldn't understand. The bottom line was somesort of inte-rchurch stuff. It was sort of offensive.
I can't make any generalizations about all mormons from this experience, but from what the investment banker told me, his mormon investors liked having church boys in positions of authority. Very close to non-negociable. Our loyality to the operations guy screwed the deal.
My ultra-orthox jewish cousin hooked me up with introductions thru the ultrarthodox jewish community-a tight group where one of the ways trust can be established is through their community which binds them together in a way that individuals are less likely to screw each other. Do all jews form a secret society that control the world-adolph hitler thought so?
Now, back on point: mitt didn't pack bain capital, the olympics committee nor his mass policy advisors from any one group. Will he be influenced by the church: as a devote man, likely the same way Obama is effected by his faith as was W and other actively practicing executives are effected by their views of the world and may be influence by people they trust. Jkf met with cardinals, but the church didn't likely play a major role in his decision making but may have been a factor at times.
I might be equally or more worried about mitt's wall street backround. We live in times when regulation vs lack of reugulation of large financial institutions will required difficult policy decisions to be made. Over-regulate and the big boys will move overseas, but underregulate and in the process of engorgring themselves with profit[that is their reason to be] they can bring down the economy.
David 33 is one the most sophosticated mongers I have met-look on ISG
Look beyond disagreements over your views of mitt, the mormon church-david is the man in Lima. Fly to ba with a 3 day stop off in Lima and david is a very generous host. The lan stop off will likely cost you almost nothing.
I personally do not have a clear understanding of how certain fringes of the mormon community function: richard nixon's fall from grace was peppered with a mormon presence-but blaming all mormons or the church itself for the actions of a few members. Howard hughs also had a mormon connection.
Exxon your postings sound like skinhead talk. Criticize mitt's history, his policy statements at the debate or even the us$10, 000. Offer to bet with rick perryi-hate based upon his religion alone?
this discourse will lead me to do some reading
Well David the South Carolina Primary is right around the corner!
[QUOTE=David_33;420450]1. I am sure you will find the the majority of the Tea Party and Religious Right agree with me on the Mormon issue.[/QUOTE]Well, your morman hate theory regarding the tea party and religious right will be duely tested in the near future. Having lived in South Carolina for 7 years I will not be surprised if things don't work out quite like you are expecting David. The Southern Baptists are not easily understood by those that have not had personal experience within that culture. The fact that Mitt goes to church will play just fine in the south, they are not that particular about the form of worship JUST THAT YOU WORSHIP. Furthermore, Mitt's long standing marriage to the same woman will also play quite well in South Carolina. Currently, in South Carolina they are playing ads showing Gingritch's past affiliation with Nancy Pelosi (IALOTFLMAO). Newt is walking dead in South Carolina. LMAO. Expect a surprise that is not consistent with the liberal media's portrayal of the Tea Party and religious right David. Expect a surprise, never let an uninformed position combined with liberal media play form the basis for your opinion. You will end up looking like an idiot everytime.
Happy Mongering All,
Toymann.
Ps. My dear brother EX, please stop with the silly video links. As a flaming liberal and known morman hater you just can't be objective here. The GOP is electing the next president here, not a pope or religious leader. Mitt Romney is an established turnaround expert, and moderate Republican. Exactly what the US needs right now. Your liberal buddies and Obomanation have created quite the mess and we need someone that can take a sows ear and make a silk purse. Remeber the Salt Lake Olympics? That was a horrific mess that Romney, in just 18 months, turned into the most successful Winter Olympiad of all time. His experience with Bain runs a similar path (TWICE in fact). Suggest you gracefully withdraw all the silly morman unsubstantiated video. You have personal history that simply clouds your judgement in this area. Time to chill out dude! See ya in March.
Romney Opens Up 20pt lead in South Carolina!
IALOTFLMAO!
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mitt-romney-opens-major-lead-south-carolina-182157407.html[/url]
Did I just speak of this, this morning! Too funny. Must be all those moderate non-religous folks in carolina supporting the devil mormon. The liberal media just kills me. Romney is just having a horrible time appealing to all those redneck bible thumping republicans. It's a good thing we have all those free-thinking liberals out there like David33 forcasting how Romney just can't get the support of the GOP party. Time for a reality check dude. LMAO Toymann
If that occurs you may be right!
[QUOTE=Chezz; 420463]My guess is that the stroke will occur about 9pm PST, Tuesday November 6, 2012, when Romney concedes to Obama. Both candidates being totally nauseating choices.
Toymann, please don't stop. I need a good chuckle.[/QUOTE]I feel quite comfortable the reverse will occur dude. I have more confidence in the US electorate than that. Obomanation is dead man walking, and so is the liberal senate. Tick Tick Tick! Time will only tell brother. Just remember who focasted all this first. Called this shot a year ago on the forumn. He who laughs last always last best! Happy Mongering free-thinker. Toymann.
Ps. Any interest in a Madahos wager Chezz or David? Your liberal brother Esten has crawled back under his rock to protect himself from the oncoming GOP tsunami!
Pps. You liberals have such a short memory. Did you both already forget what happened last November. Keep whistling past the grave yard boys. IALOTFLMAO!
Guesse the debate got too tough for you!
[QUOTE=David_33;420471]OK Toymann, so anyone who thinks the Mormons are a dangerous cult full of brainwashed automatons and that Willard is a wienie is a liberal. Going by this ridiculous, pea-brained and intellectually bankrupt definition, I am more than happy that one of the principal forces behind the desertion of AP forum members thinks I'm a liberal. Keep on trying to convince those few who are still on the forum that you are capable of more than just insulting posters. I am one of the majority who repudiate you. And I do so without lowering myself to your level of insults and personal attacks. Have a good day.[/QUOTE]What personal attachs dude. All dialog here. Like most uninformed and ignorant clowns you run away! Guess I am also the cause of 9/11 and the Easter bunny being history as well as ap becoming history. PLEASE! Do you really think this way or does the current facts get in the way of your argument. Devil Mormons. They are taking over the us don't ya know. Crawl back under your rock dude. Your debating skills suggest you are a flor de puto! Ialotflamo. Bye bye. Happy mongering all. Toyman
Exxon-take the time to learn more about what you are talking about
The wall street journal recomended 5 books about the mormon church and the history of prejudice against this group. I understand why you are personally angry about some of your past involvement with some people of the mormon faith-or at least they were born into the church. All mormons are not dedicated towards thievery and criminal activities. Basic knowledge about the religion might help and surely couldn't help if you are going to have business dealings regularly with mormons-
Maybe reading about the 1907 smoot hearings, when the first mormon elected to the us senate was initially refuseed their seat and senate hearings were held about whether a mormon should be seated in the USA senate. After obtaining information-including to testimony from joseph smith's son, senator smoot was seated
Exxon you aren't the only one who has made assumptions about an entire religion based out the acts of a few bad guys. Why don't you just keep it to yourself and at least read something about.
Why don't you try reading one of these books or more and at least reading the book reviews:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203462304577136340783641140.html?mod=WSJ_Books_LS_Books_8
warmest regards,
raciasm and prejudice are the lowest forms of political discourse,
the FBI denied the existance of organized crime in america until j edgar retired--what else is new. fjk's religion had nothing to do with him banging one of sam giacano's girl friends--don't next start posting about all catholics and all jews
Something else on the mormons-4 hour special on pbs
[url]http://www.pbs.org/mormons/[/url]
Put this on your I-pad and it will put you to sleep. Yes, this is an imperfect group of people-like all groups of people, are most horrible, not. Why may not accept their beliefs. All religions require some form of leap of faith. In our culture some sets of beliefs are more comfortable than others. If the majority wins-then the Buddhists are right!
I'm more worried about the christian ultra-far right political types- I wonder how rick santurom's justice department would approach many things that many of us enjoy-they would make john ashcroft look like a pussy? Now there is a more sympathetic supreme court.
If newt wins, he wants to re-do the constitution and end all over-site my federal courts if the executive and legislative branches agree to disagree with the courts.
Mitt and Obama are the only two that I can seriously imagine
The you=tube you posted is by a guy who posts many, many negative video
He is an atheist who who laike make fun of all accepted religious beliefs. He is laughing about the stupidity of religious belief. So what: go find more wacko stuff to make it clearer that your personal obsessions should more the basis for voting decisions.
If I am a "wacko" for accepting freedom of religion and not exploring nor mocking religious beliefs that don't seem attractive to me. I personally to not find most organized religions intellectually nor spiritually attractive.
Membership watch 2 or 3 of exxons' favorite expert in mormonism and judge him as a good sourse of data for making an important decision. I watch bill mar's comedy show. He is a fallen catholic and tells jokes about the cathelic church consistantly. Would you use him for an accurate expert on the church? Bill mar himself is intending to be funny. Your intentions aren't humor and you should know better.
Urch mem.
I take your insults as compliments based upon the source. You have no desire for discourse on the issue-go find more.
You-tubes by unusual guys to support your arguements.
Show me something that mitt has done in the past to hurt non-church members to favor church membership and I'll.
Pay attention. Show me hatred and obsession and I'll feel sorry for you and recognize you as obsessed.
Please call me wacko again, so I know that I am doing the right thing and I am on the right side of this issue:
Should mitt be eliminated as a possible candidate in the minds of the member ship here because he calls himself a mormon?
David33-mitt vs newt or santorum? Who would you see as a possible president
This is the issue here. Not the mormon church, unless you can tie mitt's public actions to hurting the people to do something to help the church or that most mormons are theives as mr exxon123 has stated or directly implied.
It's clear that generally you do not have a positive outlook on the mormon church==neither do i BUT our personal feelings about the church may or ma ynot have a substantial influence on our final voting decisions depending on the context and choices available. You don't seem obsessed with the issue.
If WW was till posting he would call this a variable that is too subjective to analyze and not lending itself to rational discourse.
NEWT, the free market guy, is now helping Obama attack Mitt, a real free market capitalist?
This is really fun. Newt is creating tv spots for Obama. Newt could never beat anyone in a national election-too checkered a past: ethical violations while speaker; took millions in consulting fees from freddy / fannie, too many wacko things that will hit him hard in 30 second tv spots.
Now newt is attacking Mitt for doing what a venture capitalist does. Sometimes raping the companies bain purchased. The venture capitalist, sometimes, are the vultures who eat the dead and weak. Other times they help grow a company, bain under mitt turned around staples, domino's pizza amongst othesr.
Newt's super pack-these outfits are amazing-has produced a 28 minute film filled with interviews of people who lost their jobs when bain capital, under Mitt, broke-up their employer, sold off the pieces for profit and lead the remaining shell into bankruptcy. I wonder if the "super pac" will sell the production to the Obama supporters after newt doesn't get the nomination?
