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MahicHat
Good review of Flores! You missed the most important boliche, though (Doly's, facing Liza at the 2800s of Directorio Ave)
"Arancel" means "fee". I guess that they mentioned you the lowest price for chica (ar$20 for 15-20 minutes).
Hope this helps,
Andres
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While at CAFE ORLEANS and/or EXCEDRA
Having visited Café Orleans and Excedra a few times, I did as recommended by Edonist in the Cafes and Coffeeshops listof the Argentina WSG-Forum: I sat around, sipping coffees and eating chocolated wafers served with them, watching everyone else, soaking in Latin society, and the following description flowed out of my fingers on a paper tissue:
In their early 20s,
They have of youth
The innocence.
In their late 20s,
They have of beauty
The arrogance.
In their 30s,
They have of volupty
The magnificence.
In their 40s,
They have of maturity
The elegance.
In their 50s,
They have of attractivity
A reminiscence.
In their 60s,
They have of festivity
The impatience.
In their dignities,
They have of duty
The silence.
Whatever their age
They have of grace
The permanence.
Make your choice,
They have of diversity
OUR preference.
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Thanks Andres. Yes I couldnt work out why I couldnt find Dolys at the time (must be blind). Think they had been redeveloping it but am fairly sure it had re-opened by then. Basically I only I had one evening in Flores and started in that area and then headed for Rivadavia and didnt have time to go back and wander round as I had to get back to Palermo, but next trip I plan on spending some time in Flores.
Apart from Dolys, are there any other bars/clubs/boliches in that area that you would recommend? And are there any other areas like Flores? I'm not much into Madahos/Blacks etc. and have done the microcentro clubs too, but love the more 'off the beaten track' places (have noted the dpto on Av.Corro) and was wondering if there was another area in Capital Federal or just outside with a similar concentration of boliches?
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MagicHat:
Unfortunately, BA has only one Flores. However, you still have 2 boliches in JB Justo Ave and Artigas St to visit (Top Secret and New Area), although they are expensive and not necessarily better than most places in Flores.
Outside BA, you have some boliches in San Miguel suburb, but I don't dare to go there (too much risk for too little reward).
Hope this helps,
Andres
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Hi MagicHat,
Thanks for the report about Flores. Next time I am there will have to investigate.
Stowe
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Thanks, as always for the info Andres. If we ever meet, the drinks are on me (provided we arent in Blacks)! :-)
MH.
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El Ricardo,
The prices I got at my two visits to Madahos were 200 pesos for 1 hour (she half-heartedly said 1.5 hours when I didn't bite at that price) + 50 peso drink (this was on a Sunday at 3 a.m.), and the chica I took out on Friday was 250 for a full 1.5 hours + 50 peso drink. Negotiations started at 300 pesos each time, but I get the sense that 200-250 is the going rate for short time, with the former being the late night/no other prospects going rate. This is for the hotter girls, though, so YMMV if you talk to the girls there that aren't getting any love from the fellas.
To put it in perspective, I returned to Black last Wednesday (it was much better than Sunday...loads and loads of beautiful women of every color and build), and the negotiations for a pretty but not model quality chica began at $200 dollars and she finally accepted 350 pesos (plus a 80 dollar chica drink) for an hour and a half. She told me not to tell anyone, especially other girls at Black if I returned, that she took this little, so here you are guys :) You're going to find a better average quality looker at Black's, but for the money to hotness ratio, Madahos, I think, is where it's at.
Regards,
GC
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Late Night Out in Recoleta
I had a great night. My amigovia came over earlier and we hung out and had a great time as usual. I met her in one of the clubs when I first moved here and she has been coming over since. I try to be very honest with her and tell her I have no plans on getting serious because she is making rumblings about that lately. Anyway, we went out to dinner so I was all dressed up so I decided to go to Madahos since she had to go to work. All the clubs really suck on Saturdays. I hung out and talked to my amigo, Bobby and he mentioned that a few guys asked for him and then asked me if I'm "Saint". Ha, ha. Anyway, he and Gabriel will take good care of you. I assume they will keep letting you waive the cover by asking for them as long as too many pikers aren't just doing it to avoid the cover then leave quickly.
There weren't too many hot girls but I did manage to get 2 phone numbers there of some pretty girls. One I asked out for lunch tomorrow and she surprised me when she said yes. So, hopefully that goes well. I told her it's not a money thing. Just two people going out to have lunch and getting to know each other. Don't be afraid to ask these girls to do things. Many might shoot you down but you lose nothing by asking.
Then I went to Black. I haven't been here in a long time. The quality wasn't that good as usual for a Saturday but I still decided to hang out. I just got home and it's 4 AM. I hung out there for about 2.5 hours. I talked to several girls that I already know. There still were a few stunners tonight. I've been coming here since my first trip a few years ago and it's a little depressing seeing some of the same girls working here still. Many have really aged alot. The routine of drinking all the time and being around all that smoke is not good for them. There is one Brazilian girl named Celia that I pulled out my very first trip. She was really pretty with a good body. I saw her in there tonight and almost fell out of my chair. She has gained about 15 lbs. and her face looks really aged.
The depressing part was she told me that first trip she was only working 5 more months then quitting. That was over 2.5 years ago. Oh well, so much for that plan. There were some blonde stunners there tonight. If you like blondes with big fake tits you might like Paola. She is a Portena that always has a smile on her face. Her tits are just too big and fake for me but I was still tempted to pull her out. I also saw this Paraguayan girl my good friend, T.B.D. pulled out our first trip. She also still works there and she has put on a lot of weight and looks much older. She used to be so gorgeous.
There is this blonde pair that is always with one another. Great bodies and seemingly pretty. One of them is pretty but the other up close has a pretty used looking face. They are from Brazil as wel and are sistersl. I tried negotiating with them and at first they asked for $200 US. I just laughed and told them I'm not a tourist. She started negotiating saying the minimum is $150 US. I just told her I was going to go let her talk to one of the tourists. She started to backpeddle since it was so late but I just walked away and talked to her cousin who is also a blonde. Her name is Sabrina and is pretty. She was a little more flexible but then I just saw that it was already 4 AM and I was tired and already had sex tonight.
I did manage to get two phone numbers from 2 girls in Black so not a bad night. 4 phone numbers which I might use some time. I talked to two tourists from South Beach tonight that were in Black and these two were really picky like me. They didn't see much they liked. They did talk to 2 girls but they were put off with the price. They are also jaded like me. They commented they like younger girls so I told them they would love Brazil.
The cool thing is most of the girls in Madahos know I'm not a tourist so they know that (a) I won't pay inflated prices and (b) that I'm going to be around a while, which is why I think the girl agreed to meet me for the date tomorrow. Anyway, I love living here. I'll like it a lot more though...once I start making money here.
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El Ricardo and General Custer,
The other night leaving Madahos very late, there was a pretty blonde girl outside waiting for a taxi. I had my own girl with me, but my partner was pretty drunk and he did not have a girl with him. So I offered her a ride with us to the hotel to see if she and my partner would hook up for the night.
I started with 200 pesos, she would not budge below 300. This was at about 0400, and she was going home without a dime. Some of the girls drive a hard bargain, and will not budge, and others are like you experienced, i.e, they will go lower, but do not want other girls to know.
Enjoy the life,
Moondog
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430 pesos for a "not model quality chica." Interesting. Anyway I just came from Nuevo Estilo and I know I said I wasn't going to fuck there any more but I did anyway and there was no cover and 5 peso beers and I took Melina, who is a 7.5 if you ignore the tattos which I can. I did not even buy her a drink and it was 173 pesos including the hotel. That is still too much but GOD she is an animal and I really like her body. Killer body. Better than I expected even though I'd seen it all on stage. OK maybe a borderline 8. CBJ but God can she suck.
Anyway in all fairness since I live here I can put them on pre-heat and I never go with a chica the first time I meet her. You can't really afford that luxury when you are visiting. Melina and I have been wanting to fuck each other for a couple of months now and that makes a big difference.
So really all you overpayers aren't really competing with me since I live here and speak the language fairly well. I have plenty of great 100 peso alternatives so just keep on wasting your money.
Just remember, though, that it isn't really necessary.
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Dickhead,
Sometimes I really think you overthink the financial aspect of the hobby too much. Sometimes it's not just about how much you spend. You aren't really "overspending" if you are getting what you want. I agree that in principle it's not good to overpay for things but you keep forgetting that many guys don't find what they are looking for in the other clubs.
I've been in many of the various clubs in Buenos Aires several times (including some of the ones in Flores). I think you mentioned that you don't want to hang out in the Recoleta clubs. I don't blame you. My point is that many guys that I know and talk to simply don't find what they are looking for in the other clubs so they aren't an "overpayer" just because you are spending less for sex then they are.
Everything is relative in life and the hobby. The 173 pesos you spent tonight.. the guy that only picks up street walkers could call you an "overspender" and foolish to spend that much money. You paid the price of admission and you got what you wanted. You sound satisfied, so that is what matters. Someone could say, "you spent 173 pesos for a 7.5 and didn't even get a BBBJ????" Life isn't always about dollars and cents and either is the hobby.
It's all about having fun in the end. I always try to be open minded with all types of hobbyers. I don't criticize the guys that are picking up 50 year old women on the street and paying 20 pesos. I would never do it, but I don't try to judge them or say they are simply wrong to do it. If that is what they like than I think it's great for them. It's all about having fun. I still remember a guy at a WSG Mansion dinner that was telling us how he picked up this 50 something woman off the street and only paid something like 25 pesos or so. Then went on to tell me how crazy some guys are to pay 200+ pesos to leave with a girl from Madahos or Black. Many guys judge everyone else based on their own economies of scale instead of trying to understand the grand scheme of things. That is simply being ignorant.
When you say things like "it isn't really necessary" I think you are thinking subjectively but not objectively. For many guys, it IS necessary to pay more to get what they want. It's like saying a guy that buys a BMW is overpaying and "it isn't really necessary". It IS necessary if he wants to drive a luxury car, likes the model, and doesn't want to drive something he doesn't like. Or a better example might be tonight. The hot girl in Black that I asked for a quote and she wanted $200 US. She wouldn't leave for less than that and that was her final price. She claimed never to go below it and I tend to believe her. (By the way, she did find a guy that would pay it and she winked at me as she was leaving with him..I gave her a thumbs up). For the guy that definitely wants HER, it IS really necessary if he wants to have sex with her. Personally, to me I wouldn't do it but I don't think the guy that IS paying her is wasting his money. If that is what he wants and he has the money to buy it. Who are we to say "it's not necessary" when it clearly is necessary.
Just my 2 cents. Again, we can agree to disagree. Good luck.
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Saint,
I think what dick meant by "it isn't really necessary" was that one can get the same quality for less. If you wanna get the BMW and you can pay half the price why pay more. Just because you can afford it? The thing is that you ruin the market for the rest of us who can't afford it.
[blue]Hi Roger,
Actually, it's been my observation that guys who knowingly pay more do so because they suffer from fear of rejection.
Jackson[/blue]
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Bait and Switch warning
Called up Mariel of Gemidos - she´s brown hair with blond streaks in the pictures. I called, and she seemed to understood some english. She said that she´ll be over in 30 minutes.
When she arrived 90 minutes later, it was obvious that she was neither the girl on the phone or in the pictures. She was much more latina appearing, with american indian features one might see at, say, a TJ club. She spoke absolutely no english. She presented herself very poorly with no class, acting somewhat bewildered and lost, like an overgrown 12 year old kid. She was about 5 in looks and had stubbly hair on her legs which put me off even more. She wanted 150p for 1 hour and 100p for 30 min before starting the session.
Although she wasn´t that attractive, I figured, ¨what the hell, what about 33 dollars for a 30 minute blow job? I´ll just keep my eyes closed!¨ She bailed herself out of that even as she didn´t want to do anything before getting paid first, saying she ¨siempre paga antes.¨ Since I RTFF (thanks to all the senior members who laid down the law) I told her that ¨YO siempre pagan despues.¨ She wouldn´t budge. I got pretty annoyed with her attitude and after a couple minutes of more aggravation, offered her 10p for taxi.
She then wanted to borrow my phone to talk to someone on the phone. After couple minutes begged me to talk to the girl (the mamasan?) myself - it turned out to be the girl that I talked to earlier on the phone to make the appointment. She was as inflexible as the chica was. So I was only too happy to send her away with 10p.
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The point I am trying to make is that if you can get product X for say 150 pesos it is not necessary to pay 350 pesos for product X. It may be necessary to pay 350 pesos for product Y. I'm just not convinced, based on 32 years of mongering experience on 5 continents, that those who are paying say 350 pesos are getting product Y. I think they are still getting product X, in most cases.
Value = Quality / Price
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Agree with sentence 1.
Agree with sentence 2.
However, lets look at the formula:
Value = Quality/Price
Price is Objective (you have already been told what this is)
Quality is Subjective
Therefore, Value is Subjective.
Quality can be only be fully assessed after consumption, so it is an ex post assessment not an ex ante assessment. However, a decision needs to be made up front (or ex ante) on what the quality might be and this is where experience comes into play.
Needless to say, a wrong (over) estimate of quality at the higher price end can lead to a greater sense of loss than at the lower end. An underestimate of quality at the lower end has less of an effect as the downside here is much less.
(an excerpt from the WSG University research paper on this subject)