2004 Reports - Edited

55% tip? No wonder Argentina economy is better now.

By the way, many countries have no tipping tradition until American started to visit.

In this discussion about sex and price I keep seeing some mongers writers talking about how attractive the chica is. In the same posting they exclude from the conversation how good the sex is.

It seems that for some, how attractive a chica is is the only thing that is important. For me, how good was the sex is first and how attractive the chica was is second (assuming the chicas are at least a 6.5).

What's more important guys, good sex with a reasonably attractive chica or bad or lackluster sex with a super model. I'll take the former over the later any day.

Stowe

[blue]Attitude is 90% of the score.

Jackson[/blue]

CaptainNemo,

To be honest I have no idea what the tip was that night. The food was great the atmosphere was wonderful and I got my first chance to meet a real Dickhead. How could you possibly put a price on that ? I think our dinner with Andre the following night at a chinese restaurant was the big tip night. Back to back great dining experiences. The highlight of the evening was the lesbian club Andre took us to after. I never said thank you to Andre for trying to buy me the bartender. He offered her 300 U.S. for an hour for me. No luck. I would have paid $500 for the chance. I still would today.

Starfe

Starfe,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Good food, good friends, good atmosphere, good service. The last thing I think about is what % I'm going to tip. Also, don't think that we didn't notice you sneaking back to the table at Todos Contentos and leaving a bigger tip. Ha, ha. T.B.D. and I caught it. (I guess you think we are cheap leaving a 20% tip?? - ha, ha).

That bartender was beautiful at Nuevo Estilo. Speaking of non-pros, I asked Bobby at Madahos if the dancers are available and he said there are good odds that I could get most of them to go out for a session, albeit for a higher price. That is interesting to note for some of you..

CaptainNemo, I think that Americans are some of the most generous travelers in the world. I've traveled all around and I think there is a reason that even though foreigners might not have a good opinion of America, they still love Americans. Just because the rest of the world might not like tipping for good service and doesn't like tipping doesn't mean that it is right. Most of the true friends that I have believe the same thing as I do. That in the hobby and life in general... what goes around comes around. All of them are happy and it's good karma. Good luck all.

I guess I won't be winning the value mongering prize any time soon! I actually hesitated to post what I paid for the girl in Black because I knew comments would be forthcoming, but since no one other than Saint has been providing pricing information for mongers so inclined to visit there, I thought I'd go ahead and contribute.

No hard feelings or offense taken, Dickhead. We all know where you stand on things and I, for one, enjoy reading your posts. But until you can show me that you sessioned with the same woman I did for less money, you have no basis for calling me an overspender. You got pissed that others were making assumptions about you, but at the same time, you can't really say that you know me, either. There are only two valid reasons I can think of for mongers here to be calling each other out on pricing:

1) somone not knowing better (i.e. the current going rates at various boliches)
2) sessioning with the same woman (i.e. off an internet site) for a much lower price

Funny that we show each other an appropriate amount of respect with regard to the chica pictures posted here (with chastisement of members that express disapproval at the looks of some of the women bedded by fellow WSGers), but as soon as someone's personal threshold for maximum price payable for sex is crossed, we're quick to hear about it. Do you honestly think some of us are just looking to throw money away? I'm not rich. Why would I spend that kind of cash on one woman if I could, say, session 4 times at Santa Fe for less? It's because of the one thing that Saint has been referring to but hasn't named:

Aesthetic. Our idea of beauty. I really do not know you, Dickhead, but I would venture you are at least past your 30's, as are the others who are insulted by some of us paying more than 200 pesos for a woman. I think there's a generational gap between the aesthetic of us younger, pickier mongers and those more experienced than us. I can think of no other explanation for the notion expressed by some that the girls in Black or Madahos are not hotter than those in the other clubs. For all the younger guys I've been in contact with, this is truly a no-brainer. The young women that fit this aesthetic have a price which some of you are unwilling to pay. That's your choice, just don't belittle mine.

You are, in fact, right that you aren't competing with us. But realize that we're shopping for entirely different things if you think an equation can settle this.

GC

I can't wait to get back to B.A.
I heard about a new place where you can eat dinner, have a few beers, and get laid all night, all for only 20 pesos! I haven't been there yet, but my sister said it was GREAT!

Well, [i]ceteris paribus[/i] (that means "all else equal" for those who slept through that class). it seems to me that a younger monger should be paying [b]less[/b] for any given chica and not more. Ditto very handsome mongers. I am neither young nor handsome but I am a lot of fun. I am not one of those saying the chicas in Black and Madaho's are or are not any hotter since I don't go there. Perhaps a source of confusion is the mean or average looks in any given boliche vs. the presence or absence of hot chicas. Let's say the average in Madaho's is 8.5 and 25% are >9.0. Let's further say the average in Boliche X is 6.0 and only 5% are >9.0. I can still go to Boliche X since I only need one chica.

But to give you an example, I know a chica who works in both Black and Catto's. She is an 8 and not a 10, but she fucked a fairly frequent poster from Black for 300 pesos and was telling me she never leaves from Black for less than 250 pesos. But, I pay her 125 and it's not just me, either. Another guy who was down here just fucked her from Catto's for 150.

So, yes, the [b]exact same chica[/b], and less ([b]way[/b] less, in fact) at someplace other than Black or Madaho's. Throw in the wild disparity in the price of chica drinks and the savings are even more.

Another example would be Jamadi, the Cuban chick who works in Madaho's and also at Catto's. I got her to agree to 200 in Catto's (would I pay 200? NO! Another monger was buying; it was my birthday or something) but then I told her to fuck off because she wanted the money up front. The guys I know who've taken her from Madaho's have paid 250 or 300, Exact same chica. And again, in all fairness she is certainly not a 10, but then on my scale a 10 is only theoretical. 9,999999999999999999 is as high as I go and to be honest I have never seen anything above a 9.12452918 in Buenos Aires, not even in Madaho's (never been in Black; maybe it is littered with 9.9995s but I will never find out).

And (hopefully) the last thing I will say right now is that perhaps part of this "generation gap" to which GC refers is that the more experience I have, the less looks matter and the more attitude and perfomance do.

Hey, DH, stop using Latin! I'm in Bali and having to use Google to figure out what the hell you're talking about on their snot slow internet service! ($3 an hour, only a dialup line, shared among 4 computers. That sucks!)

How many space all of you lose on discussion about money? Every one have a point of view. Is two years I ask for models in this forum and no one give my a answer and now you start a big discussion about money, starts a big discossuino about no one give me a direction for what I ask.

I don't tip girls, is realy hard I tip in restaurant. I am italian probably is for this, we are not use to tip. You never understand why the price rise up in that club? This two club are all the time in this forum and you know how many people read this forum?

Most of this people are english speaking, in the anglosaxon culture is realy normal to tip an probably this is one of the reason the price rise up.

Step 2:

I work in Black: nice legs, nice ass, breast champagne cup, I rate me 7/8 good attitude in bed. Black is in front of Alvear, the most expensive hotel in BA. I ask normaly 200 peso. Night after night, some give me 200, 300, 250, 400, 500, 420, some time I found 1000, 1500 peso and all the time they tip me. Ok, I start to ask 300 peso and they tip me all the time to. I start to ask 400 peso and the game go on.

All of you undestand the problem. If you like some girls repeat and and you found good chemistry go on with this girl, because if the girls do something more is probably the way she act or she found something in you and why not repeat.

And remember in west country the night club like Blacks or Madahos charge betwen 250/500 euro (800/1600 peso), the people in Alvear are use to spend 600 to 2000 euro for a girls.

In Milano you can have beatuful models the day after are on fashion shows and cost you 500/600 euro if you bring out; dinner, drugs, table in the disco with some bottles of Veuve e Clicoq, but you must know the right people. Or put some 1000/2000 euro and no problem and sure some come true.

I have frends they spend 500/800 euro in disco for table and they have a lot of girls around the table and they have screw some of this.
I hope you understand what I have written. If you have information about high level girls in BA give me a message. Remember this: These girls don't go to Madahos or Black, they go to non-pro disco in most of the time in the exclusive one.

An old Jacksonian (not Andrew) adage:

There is no correlation between the amount of money one pays and the degree of sexual satisfaction obtained.

On another note, the old boliche Snob (or Snot) on Cordoba has risen from the ashes again as the "Pussy Club". With a name like that I suspect sexual services are being offered or maybe not. We need a report from some adventuresome monger (not me).

Stormy

General Custer,

That's a great post. That is exactly the point I was making. Two totally different classes of girls. There might be a rare girl that works in both Black and another lower tier club but it is very few and far between. (Keep in mind that Black and Madahos has very ugly girls too).

I totally agree with your comment about not being rich. Most of us aren't and we don't like throwing money away. It's just that we are after a different product. Perhaps the best paragraph on this whole price argument was the one you made about the pictures posted here. No one calls out guys on how ugly some of these girls are yet they will call out a guy for paying more than a certain amount for a girl. It's all relative fellas.

I've received a few private emails and PMs from other guys that went to Black but didn't want to post because they felt they would get slammed on the price issue. No one should be afraid to post their opinions and experiences. It's how we all get more educated.

As far as the age thing. I agree with Dickhead that younger guys usually can pay less OR I've found more that they will get much more time than someone else. It's simple human nature sometimes. If a girl is attracted more to a guy she might be more inclined to spend more time with him or leave for a lower amount. Of course you have some girls that don't budge on the price but 99% of the time I have gotten her to stay for much longer.

After reading your post, I'm sorry I couldn't hook up with you that one night. If you make it make to BA again, drop me an email or PM and we'll hit the clubs. Best of luck to you.

Outstanding post, General Custer.

I don't live in BsAs, I visit, generally for no more than a week at a time. This being the case, I am able to pay for better looking products and don't have a heart attack when I might blow an extra fifty bucks in order to have some pretty young thing that could easily be on the pages of a swimsuit edition. If I do it every day, over the course of a week I'm only down $350. Which is only a third to a half of what I spent on that plane ticket alone.

If I so chose, I could stay home and get a good blowjob from a homely chick for $50. Why would I fly 5,000 miles to get a good blowjob from a homely chick for 100 pesos?

Horses for courses, of course - some might well prefer this. But I don't, and many others don't, either. Like you, General, I get tired of people claiming others pay too much or are stupid because their preferences don't match those of a few, very opinionated, very prolific posters. Some guys are on the search for the holy grail of a five peso drill - more power to them, I say - but when I shop for clothes I don't go rummaging around Goodwill, so why should shopping for chicas be any different?

I'm glad you are enjoying the lifestyle - because that's why I travel there too.

Uncle Otto

This whole thread about the girls in Blacks and Madahoes makes me recall the old addage about there being nothing written about tastes in flavors and colors. I went to Blacks a few years ago and just couldn't for the life of me feel that there was anything there that warranted the absurd prices the girls were asking. Makes me remember that supposedly the well-loved Sandy from Platynum and Escortsbaires, etc, etc, now works at Blacks and just a few years ago I spent a chunk of time with her but if I calculated how much I spent spent per hour it would have to be the equivalent of $25 pesos per hour with the girl. YMMV. So why would I ever want to spend $300 p per hour for someone like that?

And now this same girl's in Blacks getting $300 pesos per hour or more.

This entire thread about how Blacks and Madahoes have the hottest chicas is so overblown anyway since neither of those two clubs have anything remotely like a super model that you'd find on the cover of the Sport Illustrated bathing suit model such as Yamila Ruiz Diaz from Argentina or the famous Pampita form Argentina.

I agree with Professor Dickhead with all his formulae that you only need one chica and that these hot chicas are available in most of the boliches and privados, etc, on any given day. The first time I went into Nuevo Estilo I went upstairs with a 21 year old in need of a little dental work but aside from that she pushed all the right buttons and had the cutuest, tighest little ass and the most pleasant personality though she didn't remotely belong on the Sports Illustrated cover but that didn't stop me from being in pig heaven the entire time I was with her.

And some of these girls that quote you U$600.00 per hour, who the fuck are they kidding? It's just that they're catering to the top 2 percentile of the wealthiest people in Buenos Aires but they're just not worth it, they just don't fucking have gold-lined pussies or know how to fuck like Tracy Lords. So this whole finger wagging thing that we're doing here with some of the younger posters saying that they wouldn't touch a lot of these girls with someone else's 10 foot pole is just blatant bragging. This is just a case of some of us wanting to brag that they get better looking girls than the rest of us and THAT is just another case of "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

I will try very hard to express my view on tipping without offending anyone. After all, how you spend your money is not my business.

A few years back, I was in one of European country for business. I invited my local colleagues out for dinner at one of best restaurants. When the bill came, I paid with my credit. On the credit card receipt, there is no place to leave a tip as I do in the US. So, I took out a few bills to leave on the table. My colleagues looked at me as I was from another planet. They were amazed and embarrassed by what I did. One of them finally took bills off the table and stuffed them in my pocket. Then he took out a few coins and left them on the table. They quickly dragged me out the place to prevent me to leave more money. This is not a poor country. It is just not a tipping country.

This is an extreme case. In some other situations, others think at least that I am odd to do such thing.

On the other side, I was embarrassed by some of those European who absolutely refuse to leave a tip in American restaurants.

American is the most generous people on the planet. Doing things with great intention. However, actions with great intention do not translate well in other cultures. This is not limited to tipping. Looking at US foreign policy around world, you get the idea. What’s right for American culture is not necessary right for some of other countries. If we can agree on that we have different tastes on women, why can’t we accept the difference in other cultures?

Some love to drink $2 wine, others like $100 wine. Or, drinking $2 wine at $200 a plate restaurants. For the record, I love Madahos and Black. I did pay $200 pesos for the Madahos girl after a quick negotiation.

I used to hate negotiation. Since I took the negotiation training from Chester Karrass(it is in every airline magazine), I love to negotiate. It improves my business negotiation skill greatly. If you cannot take the training, you can read Dr. Karrass’s books.

Captain Nemo,

No offense taken and no offense to you but I think being a cheapo is the same in the USA, England, Africa, South America or anywhere else in the world.

You shouldn't be worried about what your friends think but start getting worried when the waitress that served you tells you that you need to put your money back in your pocket. I doubt the waitress complained that you were leaving a tip. I'm not saying you leave a huge tip every time. Hell, if you receive bad service you don't even have to tip.

I know it's different in many countries including many in Europe where they are paid a salary. Still, leaving a few extra euros, dollars, or pesos won't kill anyone if you get good service. If I was in a restaurant in the USA with a European and they didn't leave a tip, I'd never go out to eat with them again. Just the same as in Buenos Aires. I've been out with Americans to dinner that didn't want to leave a tip and needless to say I'll never go out to dinner with them again. What I've ALWAYS done since I was maybe 18 years old is tell myself if I was working in their position how would I feel if someone didn't appreciate my hard work. I knew from a young age that I could NEVER work in that type of environment so I am especially mindful when I get good service.

Perhaps the most disturbing/painful event since moving here was when I was being nice and accepted a dinner invitation from this guy who kept bragging about the millions he had made. Then he complained about the 6.50 peso taxi fare to Puerto Madero with lines like, "I think the taxi driver is taking a longer route", even though it was his first time to Puerto Madero. All during dinner he talked about all the "deals" he had made and the money he made. (I hate talking about money with strangers. ) Then the check comes and he doesn't really want to leave a tip with lines like "I think it's already included in the bill....yadda yadda yadda". That is just being a cheap bastard and we all know it.

Like I said. A piker in New York is the same as a piker in Europe. JMHO.