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[QUOTE=Esten;434645]
Doppel, do you know which American president signed this Act into law on December 17, 2010, thereby ensuring your income taxes would not increase by 3% for 2011 and 2012 ?[/QUOTE]Just what I'm talking about, since when is maintaining current rates a "CUT" and signing a veto proof bill passed by the House and Senate to maintain current rates stopping an "INCREASE"?
That's the same as saying every year tax rates remain the same is both a "CUT" and prevented an "INCREASE"
Esten, if harping on Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare are socialists programs and trying to convince people they need to kneel down to the new MASTER in the White House for his endless bounty, his most transparent administration in history, his 17 Trillion debt, and scandals galore you've got a real problem.
No need to visit foreign policy.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;434652]Esten, if harping on Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare are socialists programs and trying to convince people they need to kneel down to the new MASTER in the White House for his endless bounty, his most transparent administration in history, his 17 Trillion debt, and scandals galore you've got a real problem.[/QUOTE]No need to kneel or call anyone MASTER, Doppel. Simply to give credit where credit is due. Obama helped you save approximately [B]$19,400[/B] in taxes over 2011-12. In other words, you would have paid this much more in taxes without the legislation he signed.
Here's some more numbers for you, the latest Gallup approval numbers. Why do you think Republican approval numbers are in the toilet?
Obama: 48%
Congressional Democrats: 34%
Congressional Republicans: 26%
BTW, you were crowing about how well Texas is doing. Texas ranks #18 in unemployment (6.5%, better than national average), but #46 in poverty (16.2%, worse than national average). Texas has the dubious distinction of having the second-highest percentage of minimum wage jobs. Race-to-the-bottom capitalism doesn't lead to prosperity.
Esten you are so full of it.
I owe Obama nothing as he has done nothing except raise taxes. I suppose the increase of the FICA taxable limit in 2011, again in 2012 and now to $113,700 in 2013 is not a tax increase?
You simply don't understand taxes or choose not to understand to maintain your personal dogma.
Rave on Esten, few are listening and fewer still believe you.
As for Texas, while I doubt your stats, at least we are attracting industry and creating jobs. What is you answer to the 11 million without jobs, to Chicago, Detroit, and the other collapsing liberal bastions drowning in debt?
Your idea of racing to prosperity is the Nanny State? The only equality there is everyone is equally poor and dependent upon the government.
[QUOTE=Esten;434663]No need to kneel or call anyone MASTER, Doppel. Simply to give credit where credit is due. Obama helped you save approximately [B]$19,400[/B] in taxes over 2011-12. In other words, you would have paid this much more in taxes without the legislation he signed.
BTW, you were crowing about how well Texas is doing. Texas ranks #18 in unemployment (6.5%, better than national average), but #46 in poverty (16.2%, worse than national average). Texas has the dubious distinction of having the second-highest percentage of minimum wage jobs. Race-to-the-bottom capitalism doesn't lead to prosperity.[/QUOTE]
Esten is not stupid, he knows exactly what he's doing. His obfuscations are in the same league as master politicians, like Bill "I-did-not-have-sexual-relations-with-that-woman" Clinton. Obama is largely responsible for a big tax hike on high-earners and successful small businesses that went into effect January 1, 2013. But because he didn't prevent legislation that delayed the hike for 2 years he saved Doppelganger lots of money, according to Esten.
Adjust income in Texas for purchasing power and taxes and the state starts to look better than California.
And about "race-to-the-bottom capitalism," it's actually race to the top. Look at Hong Kong and Singapore. Look at European countries that have dropped marginal tax rates on businesses far below our level -- they've learned while we're going the other way.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434666]Esten is not stupid, he knows exactly what he's doing. His obfuscations are in the same league as master politicians, like Bill "I-did-not-have-sexual-relations-with-that-woman" Clinton. Obama is largely responsible for a big tax hike on high-earners and successful small businesses that went into effect January 1, 2013. But because he didn't prevent legislation that delayed the hike for 2 years he saved Doppelganger lots of money, according to Esten.
Adjust income in Texas for purchasing power and taxes and the state starts to look better than California.
And about "race-to-the-bottom capitalism," it's actually race to the top. Look at Hong Kong and Singapore. Look at European countries that have dropped marginal tax rates on businesses far below our level -- they've learned while we're going the other way.[/QUOTE]Esten, Obama, etal are either stupid or evil. Obama is certainly evil and since you think Esten is not stupid, well...
I disagree with Paul Ryan on a lot of issues. For example, during the Republican convention he said; "President Obama is not a bad man, he is a bad President".
Don B
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434666]Esten is not stupid, he knows exactly what he's doing. His obfuscations are in the same league as master politicians, like Bill "I-did-not-have-sexual-relations-with-that-woman" Clinton. Obama is largely responsible for a big tax hike on high-earners and successful small businesses that went into effect January 1, 2013. [/QUOTE]Tiny you need to look in the mirror.
Obama is not responsible for the recent tax hike for incomes above $400K (or, only responsible in the sense he did not act to stop it). That is a Bush tax increase. The Bush Tax Cuts were temporary, when they went into effect they were a tax cut, and when they expired they were a tax increase. The legislation responsible for that increase was signed by Bush. If you're affected by this increase, blame Bush. It's the same as with Obama's temporary payroll tax cuts. A cut when they went into effect, and an increase when they expired. Your claim that Obama is largely responsible for the tax hike on $400K+ earners is an obfuscation, if not an outright lie.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;434664]I owe Obama nothing as he has done nothing except raise taxes. [/QUOTE]Obama has both raised and lowered taxes. You can keep repeating your lies over and over, but that doesn't make them true.
Okay, I understand. Bush is responsible for the additional tax on income from the Affordable Care Act. Or maybe you'd argue that's not an income tax, it's something else. That would be a real stretch BTW, like something out of Orwell's 1984.
Forgetting about the Affordable Care Act, I assume you'd agree that Obama and Democrats passed a bill that resulted in maintenance of the status quo for certain taxpayers while allowing rates to increase for high earners. And Republicans pushed hard to continue 2012 rates for all taxpayers. And thus saying Obama et al are responsible for the tax hike on high earners is a lie? Again, it's Bush's fault?
Your reasoning is similar to that of Congressmen, both Democrats and Republicans, who consider a 4% or 5% increase in spending to be a "cut." It makes no sense.
[QUOTE=DonB;434667]Esten, Obama, etal are either stupid or evil. Obama is certainly evil and since you think Esten is not stupid, well...
I disagree with Paul Ryan on a lot of issues. For example, during the Republican convention he said; "President Obama is not a bad man, he is a bad President".
Don B[/QUOTE
Ok, so Obama is evil. I did not know that you knew him that well. Today, I read that your buddy, Tavis Smiley was smacking him. But what I am interested is, compared to Dick Cheney, who is more evil. I already know who you will pick, but just give me a couple of reasons why.
It has been said that "ideology can be a manifestation of personality disorders". If you are puzzled by that, it just means that often, ideology, religion, patriotism, etc. can locked an individual's mindset where they pre-determined an issue or a person. We can say that our esteemed colleague, Toyman, would be a prime example of that trait.
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434674]It has been said that "ideology can be a manifestation of personality disorders". If you are puzzled by that, it just means that often, ideology, religion, patriotism, etc. can locked an individual's mindset where they pre-determined an issue or a person. We can say that our esteemed colleague, Toyman, would be a prime example of that trait.[/QUOTE]So should society treat the personality disorders to correct the person's ideology? That's been tried, with a good deal of success, in China, Cambodia and the USSR.
Tiny, I simply say look at the tax legislation, and assign credit / blame based on who passed the legislation.
Obama is responsible for the taxes in the Affordable Care Act (BTW, kudos for using the correct name). Obama is also responsible for the tax provisions in the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010.
Bush is responsible for the Bush Tax Cuts. They were temporary and expired. BTW, I inferred the tax hike you referred to had to be the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts, because the legislation I claim saved Doppel money was the legislation extending these cuts (plus the payroll tax legislation).
Obama never passed legislation to raise income taxes on $400K+ incomes. Those rates rose due to the sunset provision in Bush's legislation, but you want to pin the blame on Obama?
BTW, I think Obama gave too much away with the $400K threshold. He should have stuck to his original $200K point, or even gone down to $100K, or let them all expire. I understand why he didn't do the latter though, because it would have been coincident with the payroll tax holiday expiration, a double whammy. He should have found a way to stagger them. I'm glad he achieved a net shift in the tax burden to the wealthy, but we still have a lot to do to reduce the deficit.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434675]So should society treat the personality disorders to correct the person's ideology? That's been tried, with a good deal of success, in China, Cambodia and the USSR.[/QUOTE]Your know the jihadists dosn't need much to get stirred up. Just mentioned America, and the froth & hate starts to flow. So it is with the name Obama, it unleashes name-calling like Evil and Satan. Notice the similarities.
Esten, you critical reasoning when assigning "blame / credit" is so convoluted it boggles the mind. No twist or turn of logic or outright lie is too much so long as you end at a predetermined point.
In your view Obama can do no wrong regardless of scandals, unemployment, out of control spending and back tracking on his signature legislation to avoid the slaughter that will be 2014.
You are entitled to your opinion but I believe you are seeing not many are agreeing.
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434674][QUOTE=DonB;434667]Esten, Obama, etal are either stupid or evil. Obama is certainly evil and since you think Esten is not stupid, well...
I disagree with Paul Ryan on a lot of issues. For example, during the Republican convention he said; "President Obama is not a bad man, he is a bad President".
Don B[/QUOTE
Ok, so Obama is evil. I did not know that you knew him that well. Today, I read that your buddy, Tavis Smiley was smacking him. But what I am interested is, compared to Dick Cheney, who is more evil. I already know who you will pick, but just give me a couple of reasons why.
It has been said that "ideology can be a manifestation of personality disorders". If you are puzzled by that, it just means that often, ideology, religion, patriotism, etc. can locked an individual's mindset where they pre-determined an issue or a person. We can say that our esteemed colleague, Toyman, would be a prime example of that trait.[/QUOTE]
One reason why I think Obama is evil>
"Indeed, the scary part is that Detroit is what Obama
wants to fundamentally transform America into: a place
where wealth is redistributed, not created, and where
government picks winners and losers in an economy in
which we all ultimately lose."
A quote from:
http://news.investors.com/print/ibd-editorials/071913-664483-detroit-bankruptcy-caused-by-unions-government.aspx
How about citing your quote and I never heard of Tavis Smiley. Cheney has nothing to do with my opinion of Obama.
Don B
Once upon a time, there was a man named "D" who lived in a rainy town. D walked to work each day, and sometimes he got wet when he forgot his umbrella. One rainy day, a stranger approached D as he was walking to work.
"Dear Sir", said the stranger. "I notice you don't have an umbrella, and you're getting wet from the rain. I am walking down this street for the next 5 blocks. Would you like to walk under my umbrella ?" What great luck D thought, and replied "Yes thank you that would be great! I'm going the same direction". So the two men walked the next 5 blocks, staying dry under the umbrella, until they reached a corner where the stranger had to go into a building. D thanked the stranger, who replied he was sorry that D would get wet for the remainder of his walk to work.
As luck would have it, another stranger standing right next to them overheard the conversation, and invited D to walk under his umbrella for the next few blocks, which would be enough for D to reach his workplace. So D moved under the new stranger's umbrella, not getting a drop wet, and both men continued walking. When they arrived at D's workplace, having noticed that D had not yet expressed any thanks, the new stranger asked, "Sir, I hope you appreciate that you were able to continue walking under my umbrella, so that you never got wet."
To which D replied, "Listen buddy, I was fine before you came along. All you did was continue what the first guy did, so I don't owe you anything."
The second stranger shook his head, turned around and walked away, muttering 'What a $#@%$#!'.
Esten, you are dealing in parables now?
There is a great difference between individuals voluntarily offering assistance to others and “government” forcing individuals to pay for assistance the “government” deems necessary, so your parable falls a bit flat.
Some of us have the good sense to come in out of the rain, do you?
Need I say where the umbrella should be placed?
Have a great day Esten.
[QUOTE=Esten;434699]When they arrived at D's workplace, having noticed that D had not yet expressed any thanks, the new stranger asked, "Sir, I hope you appreciate that you were able to continue walking under my umbrella, so that you never got wet."[/QUOTE]"Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business—you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
And that somebody is Barack Hussein Obama. Thank you President Obama. Thank you for taxing my income at 43.4%. While I also pay state and local taxes amounting to an additional 15% of my income, the federal taxes warm my heart, because I'm giving and receiving nothing in return. This has caused me to achieve true enlightenment. Thank you for all the government forms that I enjoy filling out. Thank you for the tens of thousands of pages of federal regulations and laws, especially the senseless ones and the ones that can send me away to jail for a year or two if I don't know about them, for they keep me excited and at my sharpest. Thank you dear President, for you bend me over and you fuck me in the ass, and I love you for it.
O.K., parables aside, what President Obama really wants to do is take "this unbelievable American system" and make it just like Europe, complete with high unemployment and stagnant economic growth. He wants to screw over the successful small businessman, because like Esten he thinks the guy will spend his free cash flow on yachts, champagne and Cadillacs instead of reinvesting it. And President Obama also believes a dollar flushed down the toilet by Washington is much more valuable than a dollar invested in the private sector. Unless of course it's government that's directing where that dollar goes within the private sector, like growing corn for ethanol or loaning money to homeowners that can't afford their monthly mortgage payments.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434718]"Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business—you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
And that somebody is Barack Hussein Obama. Thank you President Obama. Thank you for taxing my income at 43.4%. While I also pay state and local taxes amounting to an additional 15% of my income, the federal taxes warm my heart, because I'm giving and receiving nothing in return. This has caused me to achieve true enlightenment. Thank you for all the government forms that I enjoy filling out. Thank you for the tens of thousands of pages of federal regulations and laws, especially the senseless ones and the ones that can send me away to jail for a year or two if I don't know about them, for they keep me excited and at my sharpest. Thank you dear President, for you bend me over and you fuck me in the ass, and I love you for it.
O.K., parables aside, what President Obama really wants to do is take "this unbelievable American system" and make it just like Europe, complete with high unemployment and stagnant economic growth. He wants to screw over the successful small businessman, because like Esten he thinks the guy will spend his free cash flow on yachts, champagne and Cadillacs instead of reinvesting it. And President Obama also believes a dollar flushed down the toilet by Washington is much more valuable than a dollar invested in the private sector. Unless of course it's government that's directing where that dollar goes within the private sector, like growing corn for ethanol or loaning money to homeowners that can't afford their monthly mortgage payments.[/QUOTE]It seems you are hurting real bad, tell us what is was like under Clinton, then Bush. Or even before that. If you are at that level of taxation, you are not hurting for your basic needs? Or are you? I may be wrong, but people with high incomes were being taxed at close to 50% once upon a time. Tax shelters galore sprang up. So, enlighten us who are not in your oxygen deprived orbit.
By the way, I favor a flat tax. For most of my working life, I paid around 27-29%.
[QUOTE=DonB;434697][QUOTE=BlackShirt;434674]
One reason why I think Obama is evil>
"Indeed, the scary part is that Detroit is what Obama
wants to fundamentally transform America into: a place
where wealth is redistributed, not created, and where
government picks winners and losers in an economy in
which we all ultimately lose."
A quote from:
http://news.investors.com/print/ibd-editorials/071913-664483-detroit-bankruptcy-caused-by-unions-government.aspx
How about citing your quote and I never heard of Tavis Smiley. Cheney has nothing to do with my opinion of Obama.
Don B[/QUOTE]
About your psychological make-up. Forget about Tavis Smiley, he is not worth your time. It is just to note you are not the only one Obama is making sucidal.
Back to point #1, so Detroit went bankrupt because of Obama? In that same vein, 9-11 was Bush's fault. That is your premise? Yeah, right. Wish they would have lined up all those bankers in front of a firing squad.
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434721]It people with high incomes were being taxed at close to 50% once upon a time. [/QUOTE]You are wrong. At one time people with high incomes were being taxed at a 90% marginal rate.
Tres3
[QUOTE=Tres3;434724][QUOTE=BlackShirt;434721]It people with high incomes were being taxed at close to 50% once upon a time.
[QUOTE]
You are wrong. At one time people with high incomes were being taxed at a 90% marginal rate.
Tres3[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I am just a youngster, I don't go that far back.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;434709]There is a great difference between individuals voluntarily offering assistance to others and “government” forcing individuals to pay for assistance the “government” deems necessary, so your parable falls a bit flat.[/QUOTE]Slippery like an eel, trying to change the subject from tax cuts to taxes.
Just like with the umbrella, the Bush Tax Cuts and their extension were provided and accepted without force, at least for people who want tax cuts. In your case Doppel, the extension over 2011-12, along with the payroll tax holiday, saved you approximately [B]$19,400[/B] compared to what you would have paid without Obama's legislation.
How about acknowledging, yes you appreciate that Obama did that.
It was in the 50's and 60's we had rates that high and it was John Kennedy who reduced them.
Obama is not necessarily evil but believes the United States is too powerful and should be "equal with other nations" and not superior to them. He likes the European model as a way to put the United States in our "place".
While Obama is not responsible for Detroit going into bankruptcy, Detroit is a classic case demonstrating what Obama's dream for America will be.
Obama reminds me a lot of Chauncey Gardner from Being There.
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434727][QUOTE=Tres3;434724][QUOTE=BlackShirt;434721]It people with high incomes were being taxed at close to 50% once upon a time.
Thanks, I am just a youngster, I don't go that far back.[/QUOTE]
I guess I am guilty of showing my age. Ugh! At least back then I was young enough and did not earn enough to pay the 90% rate.
Tres3
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434721]It seems you are hurting real bad, tell us what is was like under Clinton, then Bush. Or even before that. If you are at that level of taxation, you are not hurting for your basic needs? Or are you? I may be wrong, but people with high incomes were being taxed at close to 50% once upon a time. Tax shelters galore sprang up. So, enlighten us who are not in your oxygen deprived orbit.
By the way, I favor a flat tax. For most of my working life, I paid around 27-29%.[/QUOTE]Apparently this parable stuff Esten started doesn't work worth a crap, because your conclusion is the same as mine. When the marginal federal + state income tax rate on small business is 50%, like it is now, or 90% or whatever, money is channeled from its most productive uses into things like tax shelters. The marginal tax rate on large U.S. corporations is around 40%, depending on the state, but they on average actually only pay 16%. That's because they have armies of tax attorneys and accountants and lobbyists. I guess it's good they do since the US corporate rate is the highest in the world and otherwise they couldn't compete. But how does small business, the engine of American entrepenuership, compete with that, without the legions of lawyers and lobbyists? Your flat tax solution sounds good to me.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434737]Apparently this parable stuff Esten started doesn't work worth a crap, because your conclusion is the same as mine. When the marginal federal + state income tax rate on small business is 50%, like it is now, or 90% or whatever, money is channeled from its most productive uses into things like tax shelters. The marginal tax rate on large U.S. corporations is around 40%, depending on the state, but they on average actually only pay 16%. That's because they have armies of tax attorneys and accountants and lobbyists. I guess it's good they do since the US corporate rate is the highest in the world and otherwise they couldn't compete. But how does small business, the engine of American entrepenuership, compete with that, without the legions of lawyers and lobbyists? Your flat tax solution sounds good to me.[/QUOTE]As Tres3 pointed out, at an earlier point, it is possible you were paying even more taxes. Yet America and you were able to thrive and be successful. And the prosperity of America was the resultant middle class that is the envy of the world. Now that world is shrinking. So you want to blame Obama, fine. He is not perfect, he is not the Messiah. I do not agree with all his policies. But he is just trying his best, and not too many people want to help him. They only want to benefit themselves. He is not trying to destroy America, Americans are destroying themselves quite well, thank you.
But what I don't get is that intensity of hate that to me is so unjustified & unreal. So much so, he has been called Evil, Communist, Racist, Muslim and more. Yet the same people are doing well, have more than enough for a good life, and is not hurting. Amazing. I don't want to dig too deep here, it might reveal some real ugliness.
[QUOTE=Esten;434728]Slippery like an eel, trying to change the subject from tax cuts to taxes.
Just like with the umbrella, the Bush Tax Cuts and their extension were provided and accepted without force, at least for people who want tax cuts. In your case Doppel, the extension over 2011-12, along with the payroll tax holiday, saved you approximately [B]$19,400[/B] compared to what you would have paid without Obama's legislation.
How about acknowledging, yes you appreciate that Obama did that.[/QUOTE]Esten, you sound like a broken record.
I'm wasting my breath / typing on a person who deems maintaining current tax rates is a "cut".
As I have already demonstrated your $19+K number is total BS.
With your boy bouncing from scandal to scandal I guess this is the best you've got.
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434741]As Tres3 pointed out, at an earlier point, it is possible you were paying even more taxes. Yet America and you were able to thrive and be successful. And the prosperity of America was the resultant middle class that is the envy of the world. Now that world is shrinking. So you want to blame Obama, fine. He is not perfect, he is not the Messiah. I do not agree with all his policies. But he is just trying his best, and not too many people want to help him. They only want to benefit themselves. He is not trying to destroy America, Americans are destroying themselves quite well, thank you.
But what I don't get is that intensity of hate that to me is so unjustified & unreal. So much so, he has been called Evil, Communist, Racist, Muslim and more. Yet the same people are doing well, have more than enough for a good life, and is not hurting. Amazing. I don't want to dig too deep here, it might reveal some real ugliness.[/QUOTE]I hate to say this because it will garner an angry, knee jerk, unintelligent retort, but there is a group of people in the USA that is still fighting the Civil War, and cannot accept the notion that a black (albeit half black) man was elected President, not once, but twice. BTW, I am a white male who did not vote for Obama in either election, but also believe that the majority of the people who voted have spoken. I often disagree with Obama, but he is the duly elected President, and we are a nation of laws, no matter how imperfect.
Tres3.
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434741]As Tres3 pointed out, at an earlier point, it is possible you were paying even more taxes. Yet America and you were able to thrive and be successful. And the prosperity of America was the resultant middle class that is the envy of the world. Now that world is shrinking. So you want to blame Obama, fine. He is not perfect, he is not the Messiah. I do not agree with all his policies. But he is just trying his best, and not too many people want to help him. They only want to benefit themselves. He is not trying to destroy America, Americans are destroying themselves quite well, thank you.
But what I don't get is that intensity of hate that to me is so unjustified & unreal. So much so, he has been called Evil, Communist, Racist, Muslim and more. Yet the same people are doing well, have more than enough for a good life, and is not hurting. Amazing. I don't want to dig too deep here, it might reveal some real ugliness.[/QUOTE]Tres, Unbelievable. Now I'm a racist. I'm no defender of Bush, he's the second or third worst US President during my adult life. But you don't think those on the left came after him every bit as hard as those on the right have gone after Obama? So why didn't you vote for Obama? Maybe you're a racist too?
Black Shirt, Now thanks to Obama I will pay less in taxes, because I'm not working. Why work 12 hours a day and reinvest in my business when 50% of my incremental income goes to the federal and state governments. Plus 40% of what I own when I die plus 8% of what I purchase plus 2-1/2% per year of the value of any real estate I own. The effective tax rate on my income is however now approximately 20% higher than it was under any previous president. I actually don't begrudge state and local governments getting their take, because they provide value for the money. Nor do I think Clinton was a bad president. Yes he raised the federal marginal rate to 39.6% (versus 43.4% now). However he balanced the budget, unlike Obama who has flushed massive quantities of money down the toilet.
There's no point in arguing, you believe Singapore is a basket case while I perceive it as an economic miracle. I don't think Obama or you are evil. You both exhibit smug, misplaced moral superiority because you think you're right and you think people like me are greedy. I'm tempted to say in another time you and he would be happy fellow travelers, following in the footsteps of other Bolsheviks and Maoists. But it's really a matter of degree. You and Obama actually are more like left of center Europeans, and your policies fortunately would just result in economic stagnation, not starvation.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434746]
There's no point in arguing, you believe Singapore is a basket case while I perceive it as an economic miracle. I don't think Obama or you are evil. You both exhibit smug, misplaced moral superiority because you think you're right and you think people like me are greedy. I'm tempted to say in another time you and he would be happy fellow travelers, following in the footsteps of other Bolsheviks and Maoists. But it's really a matter of degree. You and Obama actually are more like left of center Europeans, and your policies fortunately would just result in economic stagnation, not starvation.[/QUOTE]America is about diversity, but we are so fragmented today. There is so much mistrust, even hatred. The misunderstanding between you & me can easily be taken care of over a cup of coffee.
Greed is a component we meet every day, more often than not, I am greedy myself. Like cholesterol, there is good greed and bad greed. I would say, 99% of our actions & thoughts are based on self benefit and greed. So I think the biggest issue with you & Obama is "distribution of wealth". Here in Bangkok, when Thais get together, and when the bill gets a little excessive, the better-off people would take care of the larger portion of the bill. Nothing has to be said, no face is left a little red. When we come to Americans, well, end of story.
Singapore, of course, is a miracle story. Once upon a time in a gone-forever Singapore, I lived in a house with no flushing toilet, electricity, paved road, garbage collection, not to mention, money. I looked upon this time with fondness and nostalgia, life was so simple. And now walking down bustling Orchard Road, as I said before, the only thing left in Singapore to do for free, is fart.
And so, our debate is not about our ability to solve any issue, it is to create dialogue that can show that we have more in common than otherwise.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;434743]I'm wasting my breath / typing on a person who deems maintaining current tax rates is a "cut".[/QUOTE]I love this topic Doppel. It's the perfect example of Republican bullshit! How small business owners like yourself actually benefitted from Obama's tax legislation.
Forget about semantics and definitions of "tax cuts". Just tell us this: How much more in taxes would you have paid over 2011-12 without the legislation Obama signed?
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434718]He wants to screw over the successful small businessman, [/QUOTE]Yeah, I guess that's why Obama signed legislation that saved small businessmen like Doppel tens of thousands of dollars.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;434718]Thank you President Obama. Thank you for taxing my income at 43.4%. While I also pay state and local taxes amounting to an additional 15% of my income, the federal taxes warm my heart, because I'm giving and receiving nothing in return. This has caused me to achieve true enlightenment. Thank you for all the government forms that I enjoy filling out. Thank you for the tens of thousands of pages of federal regulations and laws, especially the senseless ones and the ones that can send me away to jail for a year or two if I don't know about them, for they keep me excited and at my sharpest. Thank you dear President, for you bend me over and you fuck me in the ass, and I love you for it. [/QUOTE]Tiny sounds more like Whiny.
The 43.4% figure is presumably from adding the 39.6% top income tax rate to the 3.8% Medicare surtax on investment income in PPACA. But these rates don't kick in until 400K and 200K, respectively. Also, these are different types of income. While the incomes are combined to determine if the surtax applies, the tax rates are not additive. For example the top dividend tax rate is 20%; adding the 3.8% surtax (for high incomes only) gives a top rate of 23.8%.
Tiny, could you please explain how you pay a 43.4% tax rate. Thanks
[QUOTE=BlackShirt;434682]Your know the jihadists dosn't need much to get stirred up. Just mentioned America, and the froth & hate starts to flow. So it is with the name Obama, it unleashes name-calling like Evil and Satan. Notice the similarities.[/QUOTE]It's called Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS).
I agree with Esten regarding Obama Derangement Syndrome except I would submit it is the liberal state of mind calling black white, no change in rates a "cut" or "saved from a raise" and ignoring true economic facts.
Quite frankly Esten, Obama did not save me a dime. When taken in total his polices and regulations were more costly and reduced the bottom line of many of my clients as well as my own. Sorry Esten, just because you keep saying it does not make it true. You simply don't know what you are talking about.
I have a great idea Esten, as you seem to be so tuned in on everyone's financial status why don't you publish your financials, full tax return with all schedules and supplements, as well as you CV to show us what a great guy you are and the depth of your infinite knowledge so we may all tremble before your great intellect?
By the way your boy sounded really whiny yesterday trotting out all the same old campaign slogans and again blaming Bush.
All your Obama blame is getting real tired, Doppel. Like we can believe a Serial Obama Denigrator will give a fair assessment of Obama's impact on their business. Right! LOL You simply don't have much credibility here, Doppel. I suggest you look deeper into how other factors, including capitalism itself, have affected small business in the US. Here's some more reading.
Obama's 18 small business tax cuts - explained
[URL]http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/24/smallbusiness/obama-tax-cuts/index.html[/URL]
Here's what we know about Doppel:
He's failed to provide a concrete example of how Obama hurt his business.
He's provided information that allows a calculation of saving approximately [B]$19,400[/B] in his taxes over 2011-12, due to tax legislation Obama signed.
Doppel would like to hide behind the facade of "My business is too complicated for you to understand, take my word for it." But an income and payroll tax calculation is a simple matter of multiplication. His lack of appreciation for the help he has received is astounding.
Here's an example of how capitalism hurts small business.
New Study: Wal-Mart Means Fewer Jobs, Less Small Businesses, More Burden on Taxpayers
[URL]http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/news/2011-01-11/new-study-wal-mart-means-fewer-jobs-less-small-businesses-more-burden-taxpayers[/URL]
Some interesting findings:
- Wal-Mart store openings kill three local jobs for every two they create by reducing retail employment by an average of 2.7 percent in every county they enter.
- Chain stores, like Wal-Mart send most of their revenues out of the community, while local businesses keep more consumer dollars in local economy: for every $100 spent in locally owned businesses, $68 stayed in the local economy while chain stores only left $43 to re-circulate locally.
[QUOTE=Esten;434781]
Here's what we know about Doppel:
He's failed to provide a concrete example of how Obama hurt his business.
He's provided information that allows a calculation of saving approximately [B]$19,400[/B] in his taxes over 2011-12, due to tax legislation Obama signed.
Doppel would like to hide behind the facade of "My business is too complicated for you to understand, take my word for it." But an income and payroll tax calculation is a simple matter of multiplication. His lack of appreciation for the help he has received is astounding.[/QUOTE]Don't you ever get tired of being wrong Esten?
First your calculations are wrong, remember the $200 K break point? Second, just because you plug a percentage into a number does not make your answer correct or even relevant. I never said my financials were too complicated, I said you don't know what you are talking about since you don't even know what they are.
I could say Esten save $100 K under Obama's "tax cuts" in addition to another $100 K in direct government benefits. But that does not make the statement true as I have no real information about Esten. Even if the $250 K number were still accurate, you don't know the composition or source of the funds.
Esten, you are like the child who asks the same stupid question over and over. Go stand in the corner, your in time out.
As far as Wal-Mart and mom & pop businesses, Wal-Mart delivers more products at lower cost than their competition that's just the way it is unless your a liberal and want to control everything for everyone's "best interest". I think we are back at the "Liberal Elite" discussion.
What out of the corner already?
Obama met with Hilary Clinton for lunch, and the begging question is, did they talk about 2016? Now, you can draw your own conclusions. But like an athlete aiming for the Olympics, you really need to start your preparations early. Physically, which she is doing right by resigning that exhaustive job of Secretary of State. And then doing the rounds of maintaining her profile in the public eye, being current and relevant, and integrating among the adoring faithful supporters and donors. Perhaps, another book? Her ambition to be president is quite extraordinary, the knocks and sacrifices that she has taken in the personal and public arenas is no less than many Olympic gold medal winners.
Will she be a formidable candidate? I think I can hear the knees knocking and trembling already across the aisle. Young gunslingers like Rubio & Cruz might think they are the fastest guns in the west, but will they survive High Noon. With Bill Clinton hovering by her side, she could win with Barbara Streisand as her VP. Or maybe, by then, Sarah Palin might have switch sides.
BlackShirt, Bill Clinton as "first lady" is to horrible to even think about. Running around the White House feeling up the female staff and "starching" their clothing for them.
They would need to replace the desk chair in the oval office for a double wide as well.
I think if the Republican's can come up with a young viable candidate it should be an interesting election cycle which the Republican's should win. Obama will be leaving such a mess by the end of his term folks will be looking for leadership and let's face it Hillary and Bill by then will be has beens, I hope.
Never under estimate Hillary, but she was the anointed one for the 2008 election and got her ass kicked by a young upstart with little experience and a slick tongue. Democrats are not very forgiving of losers, so we will see.