American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Sidney]He is making a big and a minimum 5 year commitment there. Expect a big build-up. And don't be surprised if we start something serious in Somalia! CHANGE![/QUOTE]Two aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Adan and goodnight pirates. F / A18s respond to distress calls, goodbuy Zodiacs. The Hawkeyes keep tab of what ship the Zodes came from and goodby mother ships. No missles, cannon fire would obliterate all those targets.

I would bet we could get it paid for by the shipping companies. They wouldn't have to skirt the gulf and their insurance rates would go down, it would probably be cost effective.

No need to land, we could also solve the basic Somali problem this way. That of illegal fishing and dumping, which was what contributed to the piracy in the first place. Somebody dumps waste we sink um, other nations fishing boats inside of 12 miles we confiscate the boats and give them to the Somalis.

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]Two aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Adan and goodnight pirates. F / A18s respond to distress calls, goodbuy Zodiacs. The Hawkeyes keep tab of what ship the Zodes came from and goodby mother ships. No missles, cannon fire would obliterate all those targets.

I would bet we could get it paid for by the shipping companies. They wouldn't have to skirt the gulf and their insurance rates would go down, it would probably be cost effective.

No need to land, we could also solve the basic Somali problem this way. That of illegal fishing and dumping, which was what contributed to the piracy in the first place. Somebody dumps waste we sink um, other nations fishing boats inside of 12 miles we confiscate the boats and give them to the Somalis.[/QUOTE]Oh but wait “we can ’t afford to be the policeman of the world ”!

What happened to negotiating peaceful endings to these situations?

Why didn ’t we try sanctions before violence?

Why must these things end with the loss of life?

Did we get UN approval before we took action and used force?

I thought everybody in the world would love America, if we elected Obama.

If Obama can't deal with a few pirates without using deadly force; how will he possibly deal with the likes of North Korea and Iran? (Without using force)

Where ’s our change?

My compliments to the United States Navy Seals; JOB WELL DONE!

Mongers,

Actually, what took place should be viewed as a police action rather than a military strike, as the Somali pirates were non-state actors who in reality are nothing more than well-equipped common criminals. Somalia is a failed state with no effective central government and thus no law enforcement apparatus, as such the only way to deal with the lawlessness emanating from this situation is exactly the way it was handled. Pirates caught in the act should always be shot on sight if possible. If this situation of unabated piracy continues in the area, the navies of the affected countries should bomb the ports that outfit and harbor the said pirates. High seas piracy is ridiculous and there should be zero tolerance for it.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[QUOTE=Punter 127]Oh but wait "we can 't afford to be the policeman of the world "!

What happened to negotiating peaceful endings to these situations?

Why didn 't we try sanctions before violence?

Why must these things end with the loss of life?

Did we get UN approval before we took action and used force?

I thought everybody in the world would love America, if we elected Obama.

If Obama can't deal with a few pirates without using deadly force; how will he possibly deal with the likes of North Korea and Iran? (Without using force)

Where 's our change?

My compliments to the United States Navy Seals; JOB WELL DONE![/QUOTE]Because I thought (before the act, not like some johnny come lately) that Iraq was going to be, and continues to be one of the worst policy decisions this country has ever engaged in does not make me some wussy panty waisted dove. The purpose of the military is first to deter then to inflict damage and of course finally not to let any gays in. That is the reason Louis XIV had "The final argument of Kings" stamped into his cannon barrels.

Rock is right, it was a police action, however he was an American and ultimatly the safety and security of Americans is the primary duty of the President. My proposal simply allows us to clean up international waters and get somebody to pay for it. You need no consensus to act in international waters. Impose sanctions on who, the Government of the Gulf of Adan?

Change, how about this for change, doing the right thing in the right way. The only people condeming us for acting are the pirates.

That's the problem with you hillbillys, too much inbreeding and not enough schooling!

Sorry bubba couldn't help that whole hillbilly thang.

I do however echo your praise of the seals, 3 in the x-ring from a pitching deck, not bad atal.

Would you have called it a "police action " and condoned it if Bush was still president? All at once you guys are fucking "War Hawks ", not likely. If Bush would have been in office you would have found some way to blame him for the whole ordeal to begin with, hell you probably will anyway.

Daddy I ’m not surprised by your personal attacks, that ’s what leftwing nuts do when they can ’t support there arguments with facts. It ’s a cheap tactic that ’s been over used, I would even call it pusillanimous, and I think most people see through it. So why don ’t you give it a rest?

IMHO the action taken with the pirates was too little and almost too late, we ’re very lucky no Americans were killed.

The military should not have to wait for the presidents ’ permission to use force to rescue Americans being held hostage, it should be an action of opportunity, especially in international waters.

I also think the pirates "mother ship " should have been hunted down and sunk, as it is they are left with the ability to repeat their dastardly deeds. The guys on that life boat did not act alone! Is this what you call [i]"doing the right thing in the right way "? [/i] To me it ’s like shooting the messenger.

Could one of you highly educated all-knowing leftwing doves turned "War Hawk " please explain to me why the pirates never hit an American ship before Obama took office? They sure seem to have hit just about everybody else, including the Russians.

BTW what should we do with the pirate that was captured?

I suppose you new found "War Hawks " want to hang him from the nearest yardarm and let him rot, as a deterrent to others.

Mongers,

A police action is a police action no matter who the political leader is who orders the action. The point is that there is no local or national police force in existence to handle the criminal activity that goes on off the coast of Somalia; as such the only way to police the high seas is with the Navy. There was no violation of sovereignty, no invasion, no tearing down of a functioning state apparatus, no destroying of basic public works such as clean water and reliable electricity. It was an apprehension / termination of criminals, nothing more, nothing less.

The reason this was the first US-flagged and crewed vessel taken by these pirates is twofold; first, there are very few US-flagged and crewed vessels, especially in this part of world. Most ships are flagged in places such as Liberia, Panama, or Bahamas as a flag of convenience because it is cheaper and less regulated; their crews are almost always made up of filipinos or other such cheap labor. The second part is that since many of the pirate attacks yielded ransoms in the tens of millions of dollars, this is becoming a lucrative business in poverty-stricken Somalia which is attracting new job applicants on a daily basis.

As for why the mother ship was not sunk, that would have been an illegal aggressive action under international law. There would have to be proof that a particular ship was responsible and directly involved with the smaller boat that actually initiated the attempted hijacking and kidnapping. It's not so easy to tell which boat is just fishing and which is loaded with RPG's, ak-47's and boarding equipment. If the situation escalates, however, measures should be taken such as leveling the primary ports that harbor the pirates and subjecting all boats off the coast of Somalia to inspection by international navys.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Hey Hard, should we have read them their rights? This is not a law enforcement matter, but a military one. Last time I checked the FBI was limited to the US, so how do they end up out to sea off Somolia? Democrats always want to view terror groups as a law enforcement issue and not the military threat it truly is.

If you want police action to rid the waters of pirates off the coast of Somalia it should be UN led forces, not the American Navy! (Isn ’t that the way you always wanted it in the past?)

If the UN will not act then American ships should be kept out of those waters, or at least told to enter at their own risk.

It's my understanding (from news reports) that we knew which ship was the “mother ship ” and that it even tried to approach the life boat and was turn away by the U. S. Navy.

Oh and BTW the guns I saw the pirates with were a hell of a lot bigger than AK 47’s, but I ’ll bet they bought them at a gun shop in Texas. Better pass some more U. S. Gun laws.

[QUOTE=Sidney]It becomes so clear that he is a hypocritical liar. The USA is doomed to failure under the guidance of this idiot! Quickly, he is exceeding Bush, as the worst President in the history of the USA! HELP US![/QUOTE]Sidney,

With all due respect, I think your statement is a bit too strong and certainly premature.

I didn't vote for Obama because I believe that he lacked the experience necessary to do the job well. However, that being said, now that he's got the job, I certainly don't want him to be "the worst President in the history of the USA".

Thanks,

Jackson

Hey Punter,

I resent that remark about the pirates getting their guns from a gun shop in Texas, we got way bigger and better iron than that down here!

First please accept my appologies if you truely were offended by the hillbilly lacking education comment. I assumed given the nature of our friendship and from past conversations you would understand that I was ribbing you as you are more highly educated than I am. This is honest, I consider you a friend in reality, and am very sorry if I offended you.

On to the rest, I was in favor of the Afghan invasion. Osama bin Balogny and Al Q was in Afghanistan at he invitation of the legal government of that country and they were operating with the expressed approval of that same government and had launched several operations that had directly harmed America. I disagreed with the Iraqi invasion before we ever crossed the Berm because those same reasons did not exsist. As a matter of fact I was in support of the first dust up there because it was clear that after Kuwait Saddam would go for the Kingdom and that would have placed far too many of the worlds proven oil reserves in one mans hands madman or not.

Patroling the Gulf of Adan, seriously as a matter of course no, my idea was to do it on a for hire basis. It's kind of crazy but if we could turn a profit and stop the piracy there then I'm all for it.

The man in question was an American. Personally I'm all about the military protecting Americans. If the Brits were holding an American in their embassy in Washington I would be just fine with the Marines going over that wall, though Delta would probably do it. Yes that would be an act of war but you can't let people fuck with your citizens like that. Now of course had the same man been legally detained by the non-exsistant government of Somalia for smuggeling narcotics than he is on his own. But taken during an act of piracy on the high seas? Either one of us would have been happy to pull that trigger but the Seals did it better.

Can I still call you a hillbilly as long as I don't call you an uneducated one?

Jax thank you for your remarks regarding your wait and see attitude regarding Obama.

Mongers,

I applaud Jackson for his moment of rationality. As for my buddies Sidney, Punter and the others, they need to accept the fact that the election is over, Barack Obama won a free and fair election, is now the sitting President of the United States, and has broken away from the failed policies of past. Please accept the fact that a young black guy with a Harvard mouth and thought process is the President of the United States. He will be conducting policy according to rational thought processes and diplomatic norms and not according to how he can make the most money for his friends. Realism and neo-conservativism are dead. Get over it.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[QUOTE=Doppelganger]Hey Punter I resent that remark about the pirates getting their guns from a gun shop in Texas, we got way bigger and better iron than that down here![/QUOTE]I apologize, I know what you say is true, but I figured since you ’re getting blame for the guns in Mexico, well we might as well put this on you guys as well …lol.

I also didn ’t mean to belittle the AK 47 it ’s not to bad a gun considering how inexpensive they are, I actually own a couple of them.

BTW I will be a Texas resident myself very soon, although I don ’t plan to be there very much.