American Politics during the Obama Presidency

If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you have to get your parents' permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If, in the nation's largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If an 80-year-old woman or a three-year-old girl who is confined to a wheelchair can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If a seven-year-old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher is 'cute,' but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government regulation and intrusion, while not working is rewarded with Food Stamps, WIC checks, Medicaid benefits, subsidized housing, and free cell phones * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government's plan for getting people back to work is to provide incentives for not working, by granting 99 weeks of unemployment checks, without any requirement to prove that gainful employment was diligently sought, but couldn't be found * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares, a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more 'safe' according to the government * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

What a country!

How about we give God a reason to continue blessing America!

TL.

You are right on some and wrong on others.

What gun laws have congress passed since Sandy Hook?

[URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/13/gun-control-newtown_n_4425157.html[/URL]

What are you doing kissing up to Jackson and his cronies?

[QUOTE=TejanoLibre;438128]If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you have to get your parents' permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If, in the nation's largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If an 80-year-old woman or a three-year-old girl who is confined to a wheelchair can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If a seven-year-old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher is 'cute,' but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government regulation and intrusion, while not working is rewarded with Food Stamps, WIC checks, Medicaid benefits, subsidized housing, and free cell phones * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government's plan for getting people back to work is to provide incentives for not working, by granting 99 weeks of unemployment checks, without any requirement to prove that gainful employment was diligently sought, but couldn't be found * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares, a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more 'safe' according to the government * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

What a country!

How about we give God a reason to continue blessing America!

TL.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;438133]What gun laws have congress passed since Sandy Hook?[/QUOTE]Other than outright banning private citizens from possessing weapons, exactly what other gun laws did you want Congress to pass?

And please don't answer by posting yet another cartoon that you can't explain.

Thanks,

Jax.

Where did you dream that up?

Nobody is trying to take any ones gun away, except the criminals and nut jobs.

The only reason anyone would need a multi-magazine gun is if they need to shoot all those beer cans in their back yard.

[QUOTE=Jackson;438135]Other than outright banning private citizens from possessing weapons, exactly what other gun laws did you want Congress to pass?

And please don't answer by posting yet another cartoon that you can't explain.

Thanks,

Jax.[/QUOTE]

WT that's a pretty weak response to TL's post, which is a take off on "you might be a redneck".

The thing that makes the post really funny is it points out the liberal / progressive schizophrenia when it comes to what they see as "good" and "bad".

Need a note to the school for your kid to take an aspirin but getting an abortion without parental consent is OK?

Big whoop on Sandy Hook. Sure it was a tragedy the kids and teachers were killed but where is all the liberal empathy for all the kids killed in automobile accidents? No liberal protesting for banning cars.

I noticed the Obamanation has changed ObamaCare again to allow companies with 50 to 199 employees to skip the penalties for another year. Wonder if he is feeling the heat for all the cancellations which are coming in September, October and November. Skipping the penalties is not going to stop the insurance companies from following the law which will force them to cancel non-ObamaCare conforming policies. I guess it will be much like when Obama waved his magic wand and told the insurance companies to re-issue non-compliant individual policies which the insurance companies declined to do as it was AGAINST THE LAW.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;438136]Where did you dream that up?

Nobody is trying to take any ones gun away, except the criminals and nut jobs.

The only reason anyone would need a multi-magazine gun is if they need to shoot all those beer cans in their back yard.[/QUOTE]So I met a nice Kid on the beach in Texas and he showed me his M-16 and I asked him what he shot with it.

He said "Cans!

Cans?

Yes, Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, Africans, all sorts of "Cans!

He must have been joking !

Property of the US Airforce written all over that smoking hot M16 !

Reminds me of the clerk at the Porn store that sold hand grenades and Laws Rockets!

TL.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;438136]

Nobody is trying to take any ones gun away.[snip][/QUOTE]

I think it's also safe to assume that you still believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny as well.


[b]'Mr. and Mrs. America, Turn Them All In' [/b] [i]Dianne Feinstein[/i]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI-tWh37UY[/url]

Or use them, turn them in.

My Brother didn't use his. But he had it in his hand when two 13 year old kids knocked on his door.

So, the next day or so, when my brother was not home, the kids broke into his house and stole it.

So, you see if you don't use it get rid of it, or at least don't leave it laying around.

[QUOTE=Punter127;438142]I think it's also safe to assume that you still believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny as well.


[b]'Mr. and Mrs. America, Turn Them All In' [/b] [i]Dianne Feinstein[/i]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI-tWh37UY[/url][/QUOTE]

Wow, Tejano has got quite a skill in nailing down issues and opening them up.

Good job buddy!

Carry on...

Jackpot.

[QUOTE=Jackpot;438144]Wow, Tejano has got quite a skill in nailing down issues and opening them up.

Good job buddy!

Carry on...

Jackpot.[/QUOTE]Thanks JP!

[URL]https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/s261x260/1781899_10202581959205623_2144896843_n.jpg[/URL]

Take Care,

TL.

TL didn't write that crap, the conspicuous absence of dozens of exclamation marks was a dead giveaway! It's internet spam.

It is however masterfully written, probably by someone with a deep understanding of psychological programming and manipulation. It is full of falsehoods, superficial comparisons, and narrow, isolated anecdotes that are far from representative. For example the last one, nobody's Constitutional right to defend themselves is being stripped. That is false. But that's what works with many Conservatives. Bonding with their anti-government potshots. LOL! Here's a good question. Why do you think there is so much of this misleading stuff on the right, but not on the left?

Nobody said the right wing wasn't endlessly entertaining. Got to love how Mitch McConnell's Kentucky Tea Party challenger immediately started attacking him, after Ted Cruz forced him to make a responsible vote to avoid government default. And Sarah Palin is suggesting Christie is lying about Bridgegate. 2014 is shaping up to be the year of right wing cannabalism, plenty of entertainment ahead.

[QUOTE=TejanoLibre;438128]If you can get arrested...but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots. (Tiny's note: What other country in the world would award people who enter illegally with citizenship?)

If you MUST show your identification...but not to vote for who runs the government * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government's plan for getting people back to work is to provide incentives for not working, by granting 99 weeks of unemployment checks, without any requirement to prove that gainful employment was diligently sought, but couldn't be found * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares, a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage * you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Esten;438159]TL didn't write that crap, the conspicuous absence of dozens of exclamation marks was a dead giveaway! It's internet spam. It is however masterfully written, probably by someone with a deep understanding of psychological programming and manipulation. It is full of falsehoods, superficial comparisons, and narrow, isolated anecdotes that are far from representative. [/QUOTE]Yes, this is indeed crap, that makes absolutely no sense. It exists for the sole purpose of giving one of the major political parties a leg up in elections. The Democrats who came up with this are not, however, idiots. In fact, like Nestor Kirchner and Hugo Chavez, they are political geniuses, and these are some of the ways they buy votes and stay in power.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438160]Yes, this is indeed crap, that makes absolutely no sense. It exists for the sole purpose of giving one of the major political parties a leg up in elections. The Democrats who came up with this are not, however, idiots. In fact, like Nestor Kirchner and Hugo Chavez, they are political geniuses, and these are some of the ways they buy votes and stay in power.[/QUOTE]Of course I did NOT write that Boys!

I would not waste my time on Political B. S unless it was humorous and in my Parties favor.

If you are going to quote me then please show the entire quote so none of the humor is lost in translation.

Thanks,

TL.

Best quote of the Day:

"she drinks whiskey, and she swears, and she is a republican, which makes her a low, foul creature.".

From "Stagecoach" Mary Fields

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Fields[/URL]

Absolutely worth reading!

She could run for President

Darrel Issa's is locked on the IRS, how long ago was that?

His record:

[URL]http://whohijackedourcountry.blogspot.com/2012/06/darrell-issas-long-criminal-record.html[/URL]

And Obama Care for All. The Republicans want you to not have inexpensive Health Care.

What Greedy Bastards. They and their Insurance Companies just you want to pay more for YOUR Health Care.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438160]The Democrats who came up with this are not, however, idiots. In fact, like Nestor Kirchner and Hugo Chavez, they are political geniuses, and these are some of the ways they buy votes and stay in power.[/QUOTE]Brilliant, absolutely brilliant Tiny. My hat off to you. You figured it out. Democrats have been spamming the internet with anti-government writings that are so absurd, they are sure to make anti-government folks (AKA Republicans) look bad. In turn this alienates voters from Republicans and helps Obama stay in power.

But it's even deeper than this. I know I can trust you guys to keep this here on AP, amongst us mongers.

In fact the entire Tea Party movement is an Obama strategy to maintain power. He figured the best way to sink his opponents was to damage their credibility and promote internal division. To achieve both objectives, he formed a secret group to infiltrate the right wing, from the grass roots level all the way up to the top. Big names like Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, some of them might be Obama plants. Of course there are many real Tea Party members and sympathizers, but they've been pulled along and encouraged by Obama's plants and stealth propaganda. In the meantime, the twin goals of voter alienation and internal division are coming to fruition. Tiny is right, Obama is a genius.

The next time you are with a group of fellow conservatives, you might want to look at the guy next to you and ask yourself, is this guy real or an Obama plant ? I'm just saying.

Esten and T.L., You're both smart, so I assume you're being facetious. But just in case, I intended to say that the following don't make common sense. Shrewd politicians on the left made these proposals or policies because they thought they would get them votes, and don't much care if they're idiotic or bad for the country:

1. Give citizenship to people who entered and remain in the United States illegally.

2. Allow people to vote without identification.

3. Spend more government money (years after the end of the recession but before the 2012 and 2014 elections) because that will reduce federal debt later on.

4. Grant long term unemployment benefits to people without making them diligently look for work and accept available jobs.

5. Make banks or government knock off mortgage debt in excess of the value of a house.

T.L., I enjoyed your post and realize it was meant to be humorous. Politicians from both political parties support a couple of the idiocies, like military aid for Egypt. And, as Esten and WT69 point out, some items in the list, including a couple paraphrased above, haven't become law. Yet.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;438171]
And Obama Care for All. The Republicans want you to not have inexpensive Health Care.

What Greedy Bastards. They and their Insurance Companies just you want to pay more for YOUR Health Care.[/QUOTE]Ha! Obamacare was a huge giveaway to the insurance companies. Look at the share price of Aetna, up 130%. Insurance companies will have more business and less competition. Health care costs will continue to go up. Obamacare fixed nothing.

Now that the Tea Party has more power in the Republican Party, the Greedy Rent Seeking Bastards are working your side of the aisle instead.

[QUOTE=Esten;438181]Brilliant, absolutely brilliant Tiny. My hat off to you. You figured it out. Democrats have been spamming the internet with anti-government writings that are so absurd, they are sure to make anti-government folks (AKA Republicans) look bad. In turn this alienates voters from Republicans and helps Obama stay in power.

But it's even deeper than this. I know I can trust you guys to keep this here on AP, amongst us mongers.

In fact the entire Tea Party movement is an Obama strategy to maintain power. He figured the best way to sink his opponents was to damage their credibility and promote internal division. To achieve both objectives, he formed a secret group to infiltrate the right wing, from the grass roots level all the way up to the top. Big names like Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, some of them might be Obama plants. Of course there are many real Tea Party members and sympathizers, but they've been pulled along and encouraged by Obama's plants and stealth propaganda. In the meantime, the twin goals of voter alienation and internal division are coming to fruition. Tiny is right, Obama is a genius.

The next time you are with a group of fellow conservatives, you might want to look at the guy next to you and ask yourself, is this guy real or an Obama plant ? I'm just saying.[/QUOTE]I think that Esten wants to be reincarnated as a satirist.

Tres3.

[QUOTE=Esten;438181]Brilliant, absolutely brilliant Tiny. My hat off to you. You figured it out. Democrats have been spamming the internet with anti-government writings that are so absurd, they are sure to make anti-government folks (AKA Republicans) look bad. In turn this alienates voters from Republicans and helps Obama stay in power.

But it's even deeper than this. I know I can trust you guys to keep this here on AP, amongst us mongers.

In fact the entire Tea Party movement is an Obama strategy to maintain power. He figured the best way to sink his opponents was to damage their credibility and promote internal division. To achieve both objectives, he formed a secret group to infiltrate the right wing, from the grass roots level all the way up to the top. Big names like Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, some of them might be Obama plants. Of course there are many real Tea Party members and sympathizers, but they've been pulled along and encouraged by Obama's plants and stealth propaganda. In the meantime, the twin goals of voter alienation and internal division are coming to fruition. Tiny is right, Obama is a genius.

The next time you are with a group of fellow conservatives, you might want to look at the guy next to you and ask yourself, is this guy real or an Obama plant ? I'm just saying.[/QUOTE]Wow, John Le Carre stuff, and I am part of it.

[QUOTE=Tres3;438192]I think that Esten wants to be reincarnated as a satirist.

Tres3.[/QUOTE]Satire or changing the subject are your only options if you're trying to defend some of these positions.

It is funny to watch the insurance companies and large hospital corporations who supported ObamaCare when it was first being proposed now becoming very nervous as they see their projected profits from ObamaCare slipping away due the beast the Democrats created.

When Obama was first proposing this boondoggle he got the insurance carriers and hospital corporations on board with the tantalizing vision of:

For the insurance companies, everyone would have to buy insurance, increasing their revenue from premiums while offering more expensive policies which conformed to the new ObamaCare coverage requirements. Those in lower income brackets would receive subsidies which would be paid to the insurance companies to make up for reduced premiums they received, much like Section 8 housing.

The hospital corporations would now be able to stop cost shifting from those who could pay for services either personally, via insurance or a combination of both to subsidized indigent care they were forced to provide. Now everyone would have healthcare insurance and the cost for treating the indigent would nearly disappear as their profits would increase due to being reimbursed for all care delivered.

Now as the reality is sinking in the insurance companies are seeing a significant reduction in the projected number of policies they thought they would be selling, the insured mix is very heavily weighted toward older / sicker enrollees and the subsidies are not coming in anytime soon because the "back end" of the ObamaCare website is not only not working, it has not even been built yet. It's anybody's guess as to who has coverage, if they have paid, if they actually qualified for a subsidy or were shifted to Medicaid and qualified. Can anyone say "Death Spiral".

The hospital corporations are seeing they are not going to receive payment in a timely manner due to the insurance problems listed above and are now finding out there are still going to be more than 10 million people who are still not going to have coverage they still must treat, so the indigent costs are not going away but may well go up due to the new scope of services required under ObamaCare.

November 2014 is getting closer every day. The Democrats don't have a hope in hell of retaking the House and may well lose the Senate. Have you noticed many of the architects of ObamaCare are retiring so as not to face a possible re-election defeat in 2014?

Just my humble opinion.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;438206]November 2014 is getting closer every day. The Democrats don't have a hope in hell of retaking the House and may well lose the Senate. Have you noticed many of the architects of ObamaCare are retiring so as not to face a possible re-election defeat in 2014?

Just my humble opinion.[/QUOTE][URL]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/14/rand-paul-gop-will-not-win-again-my-lifetime-presi/[/URL]

Rand Paul think otherwise.

Rev, either you did not read my post or the article you cited or you did not understand either.

I addressed the up coming 2014 mid-term elections. Paul was talking about the 2016 presidential elections.

I think Senator Paul is wrong, but we are way to far away to even be thinking about 2016 and need to concentrate on the 2014 mid-term election.

As I recall the Democrats were crowing about the "Death of Conservatism" after the 2008 elections only to take a similar beating in 2010. Too bad it was not a presidential year, Obama would have been gone, but alas it was not and we are still stuck with him.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;438209]Rev, either you did not read my post or the article you cited or you did not understand either.

I addressed the up coming 2014 mid-term elections. Paul was talking about the 2016 presidential elections.

I think Senator Paul is wrong, but we are way to far away to even be thinking about 2016 and need to concentrate on the 2014 mid-term election.

As I recall the Democrats were crowing about the "Death of Conservatism" after the 2008 elections only to take a similar beating in 2010. Too bad it was not a presidential year, Obama would have been gone, but alas it was not and we are still stuck with him.[/QUOTE]Yes, I did confuse the two different campaigns.

I would add that Americans have traditionally voted in favor of separating the powers between the presidency and congress. It's part of the American DNA.

[QUOTE=RevBS;438215]Yes, I did confuse the two different campaigns.

I would add that Americans have traditionally voted in favor of separating the powers between the presidency and congress. It's part of the American DNA.[/QUOTE]It helps to keep them honest. The problem is they need even more help then that!

[URL]http://www.nationalreview.com/article/371699/fcc-throws-towel-explosive-content-study-tim-cavanaugh[/URL]

I mean I could have come up with a better acronym for this boondoggle..something like Censorship Interdiction Manipulation While Spying...or CIMWS...now THAT has a ring to it.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;438209]Rev, either you did not read my post or the article you cited or you did not understand either.

I addressed the up coming 2014 mid-term elections. Paul was talking about the 2016 presidential elections.

I think Senator Paul is wrong, but we are way to far away to even be thinking about 2016 and need to concentrate on the 2014 mid-term election.

As I recall the Democrats were crowing about the "Death of Conservatism" after the 2008 elections only to take a similar beating in 2010. Too bad it was not a presidential year, Obama would have been gone, but alas it was not and we are still stuck with him.[/QUOTE]Too bad that the IRS and other groups had an additional 2 years to suppress the conservative vote. The truth, whether we want to admit it or not is that the 2012 US presidential election was corrupted and compromised. There were hundreds of groups (that 'coincidentally' didn't support the president) that were denied tax-free status and therefore effectively removed from the election cycle and their first amendment rights were stifled.

Could they have swayed 200 k votes in various districts across the country? Quite possibly. However, we'll never know and the truth will never come out. Just like all the other impeachable offenses over which this Marxist, want to-be dictator has presided. In theory, it isn't "if" the requisite number of votes could have been swayed. It is "if" this political targeting of political opponents took place (which it did). The IRS debacle (or Fast and Furious or Benghazi) would have been an impeachable offense for a white president (please think about both this statement and the facts before calling me a racist in some sadly, malformed knee-jerk diatribe). If it happened, then the responsible parties should have been held accountable. The high degree of visitation between the IRS and the POTUS (said to be about Obamacare when he didn't meet with Sebelius for three years) make it possible for only the most gullible, the mentally impaired and true believers to dismiss out of hand the likelihood that the POTUS was both aware of and complicit in the IRS targeting. Therefore, he should have had his day in court (Senate) which would have either changed the outcome of the presidential election or resulted in another corrupt POTUS being impeached.

Did you miss me?

[URL]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rachel-durchslag/why-we-should-listen-to-m_b_2583484.html[/URL]

For those of you who were not around in 1938 we are now having a rerun.

Don B.

That the USA fell right back into the depression.

Nice to see you posting again, but please hit the other parts of the forum. There is a whole group of of formerly active members from AP, who discuss politics on the NY Times and WSJ forums.

Welcome back.

[QUOTE=MiamiBob;438416]Nice to see you posting again, but please hit the other parts of the forum. [/QUOTE]It's so good to be back at the Desta Lake Club...

[QUOTE==]There is a whole group of of formerly active members from AP, who discuss politics on the NY Times and WSJ.

Forums.

Welcome back.[/QUOTE]You're in luck, I can't read!


Check the times of my posts. Out of respect for you, I made sure not to make my initial, returning posts in this forum.

[QUOTE=WildWalleye;438321]Too bad that the IRS and other groups had an additional 2 years to suppress the conservative vote. The truth, whether we want to admit it or not is that the 2012 US presidential election was corrupted and compromised. There were hundreds of groups (that 'coincidentally' didn't support the president) that were denied tax-free status and therefore effectively removed from the election cycle and their first amendment rights were stifled.

Did you miss me?[/QUOTE]Yes but could not the groups just have paid the taxes and gotten their first amendment rights freed? Sometimes pragmatic men are more successful than ideologues.

On his deathbed, my dad who fought the IRS for 15 years told me, if he could do it all over again he would have just paid the fuckin taxes and moved on. Too much of his life was wasted fighting the IRS.

Welcome back.

There's a bit of one sidedness here. The ACLU, of which I used to be a member, is just as pissed off as "conservative" 504 (c)(4)'s about having having to close shop or alternately disclose their membership and have it subjected to the wrath of those in the federal government who would persecute them. Rachel Durschslag is probably a left wing Democrat, not a conservative. And Don B's comment about 1938 most likely related to the annexation of Crimea by Russia, not how much money the federal government spends on trying to stimulate the economy, or sway elections, depending on how you look at it.

The IRS shouldn't be involved in politics or encharged with suppressing free speech.

Comparison of Crimea to Sudetenland, 1938: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-charles-g-cogan/crimea-sudetenland_b_4892893.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438435]The IRS shouldn't be involved in politics or encharged with suppressing free speech.[/QUOTE]They're not. They are involved in ensuring applications for tax-exempt status are legitimate.

If you don't want to risk scrutiny, don't apply for tax-exempt status.

[QUOTE=Esten;438449]They're not. They are involved in ensuring applications for tax-exempt status are legitimate.

If you don't want to risk scrutiny, don't apply for tax-exempt status.[/QUOTE]If Obama gets his way and makes the IRS implement proposed new rules, then that's exactly what will happen. The IRS will be encharged with determining whether an organization is involved in any "direct or indirect candidate-related political activity."

As you say if the organization wants to continue operating as usual it can start paying 35% tax to the federal government. Right, fat chance Esten. That's kind of like saying if you didn't want to get drafted and serve in Vietnam you could shoot yourself in the head. What will happen is the organizations will either cease to exercise their right to free speech and stop political activity. Or they will change their status and disclose the names of each and every one of their donors. The ACLU and Sierra Club among others are up in arms over this.

It's ridiculous the mental gymnastics and self-deceit that the Obama Administration will go to in order improve its edge in politics, especially given this is his last term. The man was a professor of constitutional law but thinks it's fine to disregard the first amendment.

[QUOTE=BigBossMan;438434]Yes but could not the groups just have paid the taxes and gotten their first amendment rights freed? Sometimes pragmatic men are more successful than ideologues.

On his deathbed, my dad who fought the IRS for 15 years told me, if he could do it all over again he would have just paid the fuckin taxes and moved on. Too much of his life was wasted fighting the IRS.

Welcome back.[/QUOTE]"Parties tend to become pragmatic when they become powerless. It's time for us to get pragmatic. Please, let us come out of this conference not only resolved to stand for our principles, but let's come out of this conference resolved to win elections again. We don't get to govern if we don't win.".

In other words, stop bitching about unfairness of political tax exemptions, voting reforms, immigration strategies, press bias, etc. Conservative hardliners believe that one can arise from poverty by sheer hard work & determination, riight? And here, they are moaning & groaning like the welfare class that they so despise.

But with Trump, Issa, Palin, Judge Napolitano, Ryan, Cruz & O'Reilly, it looks more like the 3 Stooges & Company.

[QUOTE=RevBS;438460]"Parties tend to become pragmatic when they become powerless. It's time for us to get pragmatic. Please, let us come out of this conference not only resolved to stand for our principles, but let's come out of this conference resolved to win elections again. We don't get to govern if we don't win.".
[/QUOTE]I just finished reading the book "Double Down" which is about the 2012 Presidential campaign. With the caveat that these are liberal writers, one problem Romney faced is that he received all his campaign financing from a small group of people. So with the campaign laws written as they were, donors are limited to giving certain amounts within certain time periods. So in August when the 47% comment came out, Obama gambled and moved funds forward to hammer Romney in television ads when Romney could not fight back due to lack of funds. Romney eventually had to cut a check for $20 million from his own stash to keep his campaign going. Obama had a better grassroots fund raising campaign so he did not have a donor problem or at least he had more slack. So the other work around from the IRS problem was just to give directly to the Romney campaign. In truth, the Tea Party did not like Romney all that much which is why they did not want to give up control of the money.

In Romney's version of why he lost, he says that Obama gave all his special interest groups gifts. In my cynical mind, the special interest groups then re-gifted some of their haul back to Obama's campaign which allowed Obama to paint Romney as an out-of-touch plutocrat which allowed him to win the final 4% which led to victory.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438450]If Obama gets his way and makes the IRS implement proposed new rules, then that's exactly what will happen. The IRS will be encharged with determining whether an organization is involved in any "direct or indirect candidate-related political activity."
[/QUOTE]So Issa and Boehner need to come up with an actual reform. Lerner is going to continue to cite the Fifth Amendment because she is in violation of the Hatch Act.

I watched the IRS hearing this week, what struck me most was the appalling conduct of the chairman, Darrell Issa.

He controlled the hearing the entire time, and when Lerner kept taking the 5th in response to his questions and slideshows, he made a short statement and quickly adjourned the meeting. He said "I have no expectation that Miss Lerner will cooperate with this committee, and therefore we stand adjourned." and banged the gavel to adjourn. When he said " [I]this committee[/I]" he really meant "[I]me[/I]". He didn't ask if anyone else had questions. When Elijah Cummings said he had a question, Issa initially completely ignored him. He then tried to dissuade Cummings, encouraged Lerner to leave, and then finally asked that Cummings microphone be cut off. [b]Un-be-lievable ![/b]

This is not the first time Issa has blatantly abused his position. Last year, he selectively released documents and withheld specific documents that showed IRS staffers were not politically motivated. There has been speculation that Lerner was politically motivated, but no evidence. OTOH, Issa's blatant partisan conduct is on display for all to see. This guy needs to be fired, charged for abusing his position, and tried in court.