2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 428921]I wish to congratulate the liberals / democrats and President Obama upon his reelection.

I find it disheartening to see those liberals / Democrats on the board are unable to be magnanimous in victory or conduct themselves with any sense of dignity or deportment upon their victory.[/QUOTE]Hey I'm not doing a happy dance. Though I'm more of a progressive / apathist than a liberal / democrat.

As far as Member 2041 you guys have been beating the crap out of him for months and he has taken on all comers. As Tiny12 said "Member #2041 is formidable" I think he's earned a victory lap, besides anybody who couldn't see he would gloat needs to get their glasses changed. His hunger for gloating is only eclipsed by his hunger for a certain something, something on Calle Paraguay.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 428921]I wish to congratulate the liberals / democrats and President Obama upon his reelection.

I find it disheartening to see those liberals / Democrats on the board are unable to be magnanimous in victory or conduct themselves with any sense of dignity or deportment upon their victory.[/QUOTE]Magnanimity best expressed by posting nothing at all....or almost nothing.

Fuck the presidential election. WEED WINS. And the fact it did so in two states and not just one means these fuckers are going to have to address the issue. Smoke it if you got it. And I got it. I think even El Jefe can get on board with this one.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;428924]It actually wasn't entirely an insult. Read my other post. I think Member #2041 is formidable and underutilized.[/QUOTE]Perhaps, but what he is, is content with his life.

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz; 428928]Hey I'm not doing a happy dance. Though I'm more of a progressive / apathist than a liberal / democrat.

As far as Member 2041 you guys have been beating the crap out of him for months and he has taken on all comers. As Tiny12 said "Member #2041 is formidable" I think he's earned a victory lap, besides anybody who couldn't see he would gloat needs to get their glasses changed. His hunger for gloating is only eclipsed by his hunger for a certain something, something on Calle Paraguay.[/QUOTE]That being said, I have left you all with a gift. Although I seriously doubt that you will have the sense to recognize it as such (although one righty on this forum has already complimented me on it in a Private Message). My post #2090 in this thread genuinely represents my best advice to all of you. And it was offered without malice, or sarcasm, or the gloating that many of my other posts of the past day have contained. If the right wing here, and in the rest of the Republican party actually took it to heart, they could again become a viable, positive force in American politics. And even for me as a moderate Democratic-leaning person, I would appreciate that sort of a useful counterweight to the often overly entitlement-leaning orthodoxy of the Democratic Party. Just not one that panders to the Religious Right Zealotry that has come to dominate the Present-day Republican party.

The Right Wing has become marginalized by their unwillingness to deal in facts, and in science, and in objectivity. When they don't like objective reality, they disregard it, and create their own false reality, rather than actually dealing with the truth and crafting LEGITIMATE arguments that address the real world. And that is what Re-elected Barack Obama.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;428931]Fuck the presidential election. WEED WINS. And the fact it did so in two states and not just one means these fuckers are going to have to address the issue. Smoke it if you got it. And I got it. I think even El Jefe can get on board with this one.[/QUOTE]DH this is just for you

[QUOTE=Member #2041;428919]You are unable to educate those who are more enlightened than yourself.[/QUOTE]It's got nothing to do with "education" or "enlightenment".

You're selling dependency, but I'm interested in self-reliance and personal responsibility.

You're selling prejudice against those who work hard and succeed, but I'm interested in equal opportunity but not guaranteed outcome.

You're selling out of control borrowing and spending, but I'm interested in living within our fiscal means.

You're selling bigger government, but I'm interested in a smaller, less intrusive government.

And on and on and on...

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Member #2041;428933]...has become marginalized by their unwillingness to deal in facts, and in science, and in objectivity. When they don't like objective reality, they disregard it, and create their own false reality, rather than actually dealing with the truth and crafting LEGITIMATE arguments that address the real world. And that is what Re-elected Barack Obama.[/QUOTE]WOW! That's EXACTLY how I see the Democrats!

Thank you, DR. Rest assured my apartment would appear similar from an aerial view right now. Regarding what #2041 said, if I got the number right, I wonder if the Republican party could split with the insane religious zealots going one way and the pragmatic supply siders maybe joining the Libertarians. If that happened, maybe some fiscally conservative Democrats would defect to the Libertarians. Right now I don't think the Libertarian party appeals to those Democrats because their plans for fiscal contraction are too extreme. I would consider it a good thing if a viable third party could emerge. Even if a third party could get 10% of the vote, it would result in more coalition building and consensus seeking, which I believe is what is needed right now. A frequent criticism of this kind of '10%' situation is that the third party then holds the other two hostage. I am sort of okay with that idea. The 10%ers put everybody else in a room and say now you fuckers work it out. The Libertarians could be that party, if they themselves moderate a bit. If they moderate too much then they will be viewed as sell-outs so it is a fine line to walk.

[QUOTE=Jackson;428939]WOW! That's EXACTLY how I see the Democrats![/QUOTE]Which, as I said, is emblematic of the problem at hand, and why your side got it's ass handed to it yesterday.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;428940]Thank you, DR. Rest assured my apartment would appear similar from an aerial view right now. Regarding what #2041 said, if I got the number right, I wonder if the Republican party could split with the insane religious zealots going one way and the pragmatic supply siders maybe joining the Libertarians. If that happened, maybe some fiscally conservative Democrats would defect to the Libertarians. Right now I don't think the Libertarian party appeals to those Democrats because their plans for fiscal contraction are too extreme. I would consider it a good thing if a viable third party could emerge. Even if a third party could get 10% of the vote, it would result in more coalition building and consensus seeking, which I believe is what is needed right now. A frequent criticism of this kind of '10%' situation is that the third party then holds the other two hostage. I am sort of okay with that idea. The 10%ers put everybody else in a room and say now you fuckers work it out. The Libertarians could be that party, if they themselves moderate a bit. If they moderate too much then they will be viewed as sell-outs so it is a fine line to walk.[/QUOTE]The other issue with Libertarianism is that, while they give lip-service to laissez-faire foreign policy, and real personal freedoms in individual beliefs and conduct, they don't really believe it in the fiber of their bones the way that they do about not being taxed by the government. If the tenets of Libertarianism that appeal to Democrats were hewn to as aggressively as the tenets that appeal to Republicans are, a significant portion of Democrats WOULD be attracted to it. But the Libertarian movement really DOESN'T give those tenets their true passion, the way that they do the anti-tax and anti-government message. If my right to live freely and equally as an Atheist were as aggressively defended as righties desire not to be taxed is defended, the movement would have some coherence and consistency. But it really does not, and is not fooling anyone.

People like me and Jackson want the same thing at the end of the day but have come to view each other as such polar opposites that we can look at the same set of conditions and circumstances and come to completely opposite conclusions. That is a fuck of a lot better situation than Stalin or Stroessner or even Plutarco Calles, where we would both have to come to someone else's conclusion or get shot. It is like Keynes and Hayek, fundamentally different starting points. Sometimes the US pisses me off but the political process here is better than in most places. We just had an election and last I heard out of a country of 310 million or whatever it is, the difference in the popular vote is 90, 000 or something like that, an amazingly small difference. Yet there will not be a revolution either way. That whole electoral college thing is bullshit but we will have to live with that.

Now I suggest both sides move to the center for the sake of sheer efficiency, because the extreme shit is not going to happen.

[QUOTE=Member #2041;428942]The other issue with Libertarianism is that, while they give lip-service to laissez-faire foreign policy, and real personal freedoms in individual beliefs and conduct, they don't really believe it in the fiber of their bones the way that they do about not being taxed by the government. If the tenets of Libertarianism that appeal to Democrats were hewn to as aggressively as the tenets that appeal to Republicans are, a significant portion of Democrats WOULD be attracted to it. But the Libertarian movement really DOESN'T give those tenets their true passion, the way that they do the anti-tax and anti-government message. If my right to live freely and equally as an Atheist were as aggressively defended as righties desire not to be taxed is defended, the movement would have some coherence and consistency. But it really does not, and is not fooling anyone.[/QUOTE]When I went to see Jim Gray, it is definitely the case that once the discussion moved from tax to health care and exactly how the whole money thing would work, he fuzzed out completely. The Libertarians need to do more economic research and put their numbers together in a way that can be taken seriously, and address health care in some coherent fashion even if it is to say fuck you, you are on your own. Gray flat out embarrassed himself there.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;428931]Fuck the presidential election. WEED WINS. And the fact it did so in two states and not just one means these fuckers are going to have to address the issue. Smoke it if you got it. And I got it. I think even El Jefe can get on board with this one.[/QUOTE]Here here, but worth noting that even under the guidance of the "communist" Obama, the Feds are not on board with this. But hey, one small step for man.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 428916]Bullshit.

They voted for the guy they thought was the most likely to give them free money.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Wrong. The deciding votes were cast by working class white voters, women, and hispanics who were voting AGAINST Romney, much more so than FOR Obama. As I stated months ago, Romney was a terrible candidate and the Republicans signed their own death warrant in this election by nominating him. How can anyone with half a brain expect to win an election in the USA today when they take extreme hardline positions against these groups (Romney's anti abortion, anti immigrant, anti-auto bailout stances sank his ship). Many news commentators were speculating that the Republicans are finished as a catch all party because of changing demographics but I actually do not believe this. If the Republicans come up with a middle of the road candidate that doesn't take hardline social positions and doesn't have a history as a corporate raider they could very well win in 2016.