2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=Mpexy; 429011]At that close a margin, we are a divided nation. Believing that either side has a "mandate" because of a relatively few percentile points of active vs disaffected voters that swings back and forth over momentary periods of time is rather foolish.

Both parties have "led" by these swings, both have claimed a "mandate". But only time will tell how this great American experiment works out when in almost any situation, nearly 5 out of 10 people like and other half doesn't like the decision.

Having one side claim they have the will of the people because of a slight 5. X ratio edge is as stupid now as when Bush did it. Neither party has rights to mandate, and neither party has sole claim on the stupidity of this assumption other than as a PR soundbite.[/QUOTE]And it shall come to pass that the unbelievers and impeders will suffer the wrath of Mother Nature, for they have been given the message by the Son of Heaven. Fear Ye, Fear Year! Money is thy God and woe be unto you, and you will be brought down to your knees, for you have been warned.

[QUOTE=SnakeOilSales;429019]You are a quack and an immoral idiot that we all hope will finally be caught by Medicare for your crimes. Your Mormon slimebag candidate got taken to the cleaners on Tuesday now you and his other supporters will have to pay the price in the way of higher taxes. So bend over, open up your wallet and get ready to pay.[/QUOTE]He's guilty of Medicare crimes? For stating that some employers may switch workers to part time to avoid paying higher healthcare costs? That doesn't make sense. Do a search and see if you still believe there was an actual bet between Toymann and David. I did and I don't.

I think the liberals here are becoming drunk with power, or something like that. Black Shirt thinks he's God.

No offense Black Shirt, you've had some very thoughtful, wise posts here. But I'm really wondering about that last one.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 429022]He's guilty of Medicare crimes? For stating that some employers may switch workers to part time to avoid paying higher healthcare costs? That doesn't make sense. Do a search and see if you still believe there was an actual bet between Toymann and David. I did and I don't.

I think the liberals here are becoming drunk with power, or something like that. Black Shirt thinks he's God.

No offense Black Shirt, you've had some very thoughtful, wise posts here. But I'm really wondering about that last one.[/QUOTE]I'm looking forward to the next 4 years. If nothing gets done, there will be a American spring to force the House to it's knees.

[QUOTE=Black Shirt;429021]And it shall come to pass that the unbelievers and impeders will suffer the wrath of Mother Nature, for they have been given the message by the Son of Heaven. Fear Ye, Fear Year! Money is thy God and woe be unto you, and you will be brought down to your knees, for you have been warned.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, I started thinking about your post and for a split second thought maybe I should change the direction of my life. Maybe Black Shirt is a prophet. But that was only for a split second.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 429018]The "small town", where Romney won 60 percentage points more than Obama, has a population of 150, 000, 39% Hispanic. 7% Black. 54% White. You've got a point though. Look at a map of USA counties, which voted for Romney and which voted for Obama, and it's mostly painted red. People in the cities have spoken and Obama is our president for 4 more years.

Why does Obama have a mandate but the House of Representatives is irrelevant? That's not the way the Constitution was set up. The founders considered it the most democratic of the branches of government. That's why revenue bills are supposed to be written in the House and amended in the Senate. Not that it makes any difference now, since Reid bats down much of what they send him.[/QUOTE] Big Fucking Deal. If your point is that there is more mostly empty space that is red than blue on the map, I'll concede that issue, but ask you what the fuck that matters? Do you think that Alaska should have 30% of the votes in the USA Congress just because it has 30% of the (unpopulated) space? We've already had a great example of the sort of unqualified idiot Alaskans vote for - you betcha we have. Perhaps the Grizzley Bears in Alaska, Wyoming, and Montana are entitled to votes where there are no people living in the places?

The fact is, votes are apportioned by population. Each person gets exactly one. And while we recognize that you strict constructionists would rather that congressional representation for blacks still be calculated at 3/5 that of whites (and even then, the white "owners" were the only ones enfrachised). Thankfully, we as a society have moved well past that.

[QUOTE=SnakeOilSales;429019]You are a quack and an immoral idiot that we all hope will finally be caught by Medicare for your crimes. Your Mormon slimebag candidate got taken to the cleaners on Tuesday now you and his other supporters will have to pay the price in the way of higher taxes. So bend over, open up your wallet and get ready to pay.[/QUOTE]Does anyone else think this is starting to get out of hand. Other than snakeboy, member and david33? Just curious? Makes for incredible entertainment though. Monger on all. Toymann

[QUOTE=David_33; 428920]You have been shown up on the forum as a blowhard, a fake, a cheater and a scumbag (for the few who already didn't realize that). Many on the forum are afraid to face you because you will then begin to abuse them in your customary hysterical ungrammatical posts. I have called you out as a coward and a fake. I would have paid off the bet had your Mormon won. But that is the difference between you and me and why I am respected on the forums and you aren't. Too bad you don't have any self respect because then you would go away and AP would be better off. But since you obviously don't have a life without AP, I imagine you will linger on until Jackson hopefully decides that your negativity on the forum is not worth the few bucks he gets from renting you a room and bans you. The majority of AP forum members and myself will count the days until that happens. Until then, everytime you start to brag about how much money you are supposed to have, all will remember that you weasled out of a bet to avoid paying a measily $350. Those are the facts and you can keep whining and posting personal insults; talk is cheap but actions are what count. Everytime a forum member meets you he will remember you as the loser who welched on his bet.

Anyone who knows me personally is aware that $350 is no big deal for me. Its not about the dollars, its about PUTTING YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. This is why I took the bet. As far as I'm concerned showing up Toymann for what he really is (to anyone who didn't already know) , is worth far more than $350.

The case is closed.[/QUOTE]A long time ago someone told me that you should always avoid discussing Politics, Religion and Abortion if you want to keep the peace amongst friends. I guess she was right.

As for me last Tuesday, I went to the Evangelical Sermon, stopped off to vote for Obama and then took one of my girlfriends to the abortion clinic; just another day in the neighborhood!

TL

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 429022]He's guilty of Medicare crimes? For stating that some employers may switch workers to part time to avoid paying higher healthcare costs? That doesn't make sense. Do a search and see if you still believe there was an actual bet between Toymann and David. I did and I don't.

I think the liberals here are becoming drunk with power, or something like that. Black Shirt thinks he's God.

No offense Black Shirt, you've had some very thoughtful, wise posts here. But I'm really wondering about that last one.[/QUOTE]Don't waste your time dude. These loons are way out of control! Toymann.

PS. Crazy liberals never let the facts get in the way! Dudes are muy loco.

[QUOTE=Toymann;429027]Does anyone else think this is starting to get out of hand. Other than snakeboy, member and david33? Just curious? Makes for incredible entertainment though. Monger on all. Toymann[/QUOTE]A little bit.

BTW, I will PM you on the bet..... but I will be in town real soon. BTW, why did you share almost no info from your past trip ? Keeping all the good ones to yourself ??!

[b][i]Hey Dems..... [/i][/b] no need for name calling. This is a great moment.

Let those Repubs who insist on it, continue with their false stereotypes that the Democrat Party thinks rich people are evil, that the Democrat Party is all about giving people free stuff. Let them take comfort in their delusions if they insist. It matters not, except for being a drag on their party's ability to move forward.

Think of the election implications for helping reverse some of the plutocratic trends that are harming our country.
Think of the election implications for the composition of the Supreme Court.
Think of the election implications for a growing consensus that trickle-down economics don't work.

Sit back, cook a spliff, and tune in to some Mark Levin and have a good laugh !

[QUOTE=Tiny12;429022]Do a search and see if you still believe there was an actual bet between Toymann and David. I did and I don't.[/QUOTE]Ditto.

David, it's up to you to explain to us when / where your bet with Toymann took place. I had one with him, and since I read most of the political threads I would have noticed whether Toymann also had bets with others. He only had a bet with me AFAIK.

You have a lot of board cred, and I hope to enlist your help if and when I ever get to Lima. But for the readers here I think you should explain this one.

Esten, In the coming socialist proletarian republic, I hope someone like you is my local political commissar. Unlike many here, including me, you're always diplomatic. And fairminded, except when it comes to taxes.

On taxes, Boehner is saying no increase in the maximum rate and the Dems are sticking to raising the maximum rate for those over $250k. So we are talking about moving the top two brackets from 33% to 36% and 35% to 39. 6. Dems are stating a willingness to make "significant" cuts to entitlements. Split the difference on the rates, say to 35% and 37% or 34% and 38% or whatever and be done with that. Build a fence around that money and earmark it for deficit reduction. 2% payroll tax cut is set to expire. Either compromise at 1% or cut it 1% for employers and raise it 1% for employees so both pay 5. 2.

Now, on entitlements, there is cutting short term and cutting long term. I don't know how many view unemployment insurance as an entitlement but these extensions are getting ridiculous. If you can't find a job in six months there is some larger issue. So nix the extensions. Given Obamacare, why not raise the Medicare eligibility age to say 67 or 68? Cutting food stamps would just be plain mean. The maximum benefit is I believe $216 a month. Can you eat on that? Well, yeah, I can (that is pretty close to what I spend) but I know nutrition and how to shop and I am not homeless. Hungry people get restless so even if you have a conservative viewpoint you should recognize the danger in hungry mobs.

I am okay with subsidizing student loans but the people writing the laws are not doing a good job of defining things like income and need and there is abuse potential. The Democrats have to shoulder the blame for that one. However, part of the reason the definition of income is fucked up is because the tax system is too complicated.

So for tax reform (leaving out the corporate side which is fictitious) we need to simplify and consolidate the myriad educational tax breaks. We need to get rid of paying people to having children, who are not an economic advantage in an advanced society. Having children is a choice like any other. I doubt attacks on the mortgage interest deduction would be successful but it makes no intellectual sense. Charitable deductions should go. If you need these types of incentives to donate then I question both your motivation and the quality of the organization.

Legislators should take pay cuts on the order of 20% and their fringe benefits are excessive and too easy to qualify for. Make all the congressional districts twice as big and get rid of half of those fuckers. That would make for a very good election in 2014. I am sure that won't happen but I wonder what exactly would be the legal process for cutting the legislature itself. 435 people is too unwieldy even if you take cost out of the equation.

After years of this.

[url]http://mediamatters.org/video/2010/12/08/hannity-and-andrew-mccarthy-attack-dream-act-as/174196[/url]

This.

[url]http://mediamatters.org/video/2010/04/28/hannity-displays-b-roll-of-border-crossers-whil/163951[/url]

And this.

[url]http://mediamatters.org/video/2012/05/01/fox-guest-michelle-fields-if-illegals-are-so-up/184362[/url]

Two days after the election where they were drubbed by the "brown" folks we now have this.

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/08/sean-hannity-ive-evolved-on-immigration/[/url]

How do they overcome the lying liberal campaign? Did he seriously just say that? At least he was honest enough to say we have to be nicer to them because we need the votes of their cousins that are legal. Jesus what a hypocrite. All you Fox guys here get ready for a massive move to the left by your party. Seriously, a massive move. By 2016 Hillary will be the GOP nominee.

[QUOTE=Esten; 429039]Ditto.

David, it's up to you to explain to us when / where your bet with Toymann took place. I had one with him, and since I read most of the political threads I would have noticed whether Toymann also had bets with others. He only had a bet with me AFAIK.

You have a lot of board cred, and I hope to enlist your help if and when I ever get to Lima. But for the readers here I think you should explain this one.[/QUOTE]Never read the ISG but I have never noticed any serious contribution to this thread, except his obsession with me. In the last year his focus has been obsessively ranting about ol'toymann. As best I can figure from the forwarded or copied text. Kinda wierd if ya ask me.

Congrats Esten, I am still confounded regarding Tuesdays result. Growing up in a socialist country, I left hoping to find success in capitalist society. I totally get the socialist thing. Oppressive taxes, no social class movement, etc. Etc. Luckily my last 20 years in America have been good ones. I will like many other small business owners adjust my approach to adapt to the oncoming psunami! I am already shaping my pitch to my employees explaining why their once very low cost healthcare is now substantially higher (was employee contribution 50 bucks per month for indemnity 1500 deductible in 2012, now 300 in 2013). Sadly, or luckily I am just not ready to move my 40 fulltime support staff employees from fulltime status to 60 part time employees. The savings would be dramatic (no overtime, benefits, vacation or sick liabilty for me, plus I could now really perk up my professional staff as I could tailer my benefits to a small few) but we'll see what 2013 brings. The unemployment in my state is soo high that a Craig's list ad will bring 300 resumes in just 3 hours. In the past I could never get good front office help for under 19 bucks an hour. Today the same folks are thrilled to have a job with benefits for 12-13 bucks an hour. Welcome to the new socialist america all. It's all good. Toymann