American Politics during the Obama Presidency

Relax, people! This is a site meant for fun, not arguments based on whatever. Miami, you think I´ve been sending too many pictures lately? I´m sorry about that. Thanks though for saying I´m cute. Is there a Shirley Temple for me as well?

Wild Walleye you´re always so nice to me, it´s such a pity we haven´t met yet. I´m sure we will pretty soon.

Let´s just follow the spirit of the site! Sex and fun!

Happy mongering all!

[QUOTE=Miamipro; 412439]I never said you spewed hate. You you like exaggeration don't you? . "Hater" is just a figure of speech but I am sure you already know that.

Political Debates can be fun and entertaining. And its ok if you want to try and be right. But where you fail is with your sarcastic comments and pithy insults. I am sure you have the aptitude of debating without trying to belittle people. Try it.

Cool I will have a Shirley Temple waiting for you. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Miamipro;412439]And its ok if you want to try and be right.[/quote]It is good to aspire to achieve, some do both, aspire and achieve.

[quote=]But where you fail is with your sarcastic comments and pithy insults.[/quote]My apologies, I do tend to use some big words so I can understand losing you with some of them.

[quote=] I am sure you have the aptitude of debating without trying to belittle people.

Try it. [/quote]I will try to counter your subobtuseness with less oblique references. Although that might take some of the fun out of it.

[quote=]Cool I will have a Shirley Temple waiting for you.[/QUOTE]Is she a regular at Newport?

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye; 412460]It is good to aspire to achieve, some do both, aspire and achieve.

My apologies, I do tend to use some big words so I can understand losing you with some of them.

I will try to counter your subobtuseness with less oblique references. Although that might take some of the fun out of it.

Is she a regular at Newport? [/QUOTE]Maybe you can aspire and achieve at some point in your life, but you seem to be far from it. Also if you consider those big words, you might be in a pickle.

Double it is!

[QUOTE=Transito; 412457]Relax, people! This is a site meant for fun, not arguments based on whatever. Miami, you think I´ve been sending too many pictures lately? I´m sorry about that. Thanks though for saying I´m cute. Is there a Shirley Temple for me as well?

Wild Walleye you´re always so nice to me, it´s such a pity we haven´t met yet. I´m sure we will pretty soon.

Let´s just follow the spirit of the site! Sex and fun!

Happy mongering all! [/QUOTE]No you haven't been sending to many pictures lately. You look great keep sending. Salute!

[QUOTE=Miamipro;412461]Maybe you can aspire and achieve at some point in your life, but you seem to be far from it. [/QUOTE]I realize that I haven't forced rationed healthcare on 300 million unwilling citizens but, I'd like to think I have accomplished something.

That said, "a man has to know his own limitations. "

While my accomplishments are many, I like to count among my favoritas: eating six empenadas in one seating (dos queso, dos carne y dos jamon y queso, walking from San Telmo to Belgrano and entering a privado in darkness and exiting in the light.

Then again, I measure achievement against one's capabilities rather than against what conventional wisdom tells us achievement is. Maybe that is why I get to do what I do, and love it.

I am a legend in my own mind.

(hat tip to Harry Callahan and his friend's S&W)

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;412464]While my accomplishments are many, I like to count among my favoritas: eating six empenadas in one seating (dos queso, dos carne y dos jamon y queso, walking from San Telmo to Belgrano and entering a privado in darkness and exiting in the light.[/QUOTE]Well at least you have this going for you. As for the rest. Refer below.

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;412464]I am a legend in my own mind.[/QUOTE]Agreed

One of those things is realizing that getting there is half the fun. Since I spend all of my time getting somewhere, that is a good thing.

Miamipro I said nothing about death panels. I just pointed out the Dems hypocrisy after cutting $500 billion from Medicaid to fund ObamaCare and you no intelligent response. Who is the fear monger here?

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;412476]Miamipro I said nothing about death panels. I just pointed out the Dems hypocrisy after cutting $500 billion from Medicaid to fund ObamaCare and you no intelligent response. Who is the fear monger here?[/QUOTE]OK, partner (MP & Co, I spent well-earned navel-gazing time educating you on what fear mongering is (since you didn't know when you opened up this can of worms) , and you throw out "death panels. " That is almost as bad as your first example.

Sorry, "Death Panel" is an outdated term they are the "Independent Payment Advisory Board. " They couldn't even come up with a name that would hide what they do. This panel exists solely to deny coverage to individuals covered by the plan. There is no other purpose for this panel. This panel, whose authority is above the treating physician, "will control healthcare costs" (according to Obama and his budget director. Its decisions are essentially irrefutable.

One of the great things about pre-Obama healthcare in the US is that there was always hope.

Let me tell you a story of pre-Obmam healthcare for someone I was close to, who was living on a very fixed income in the States:

Out of the blue, the doctor says you've got a nasty glioblastoma.

FYI, A glioblastoma is an extremely aggressive and nasty malignant brain cancer that, for lack of a better description, gets into all the nooks and cranneys of the brain making total removal impossible. Its aggressiveness means that it will be back regardless of the course of treatment. That said, the nature of the cancer means that pressure from the growth (normally in the cerebrum. Brain) will effect memory, motor skills and other brain functions before the cancer takes its toll. Therefore, you typically have a 'healthy' patient (body function excellent) that will experience precipitous loss of brain function (which impacts speech, memory, physicality, etc) due to the size and pressure exerted by the tumor. The mass of the tumor can be decreased, reducing the pressure and reversing the effects.

Simply put, your loved one has been visited by the grim reaper. The prognosis for malignant astrocytoma is generally very short (say six months. While you gather family around to figure out what to do, you loved one slips into a state of "unknowing" not dissimilar form advanced Alzheimer's disease. Typically, you have unfinished business with this loved one. She or he has unfinished business with all of the progeny. Maybe you haven't said good bye, maybe she or he hasn't made a will, maybe his / her children are returning from college and haven't been in to visit (lots of different elements of the human condition. Maybe that individual is the sole care giver for a slightly, mentally challenged adult. Maybe if that individual passes away there is no one left to care for the special needs individual.

The doctor says "There are a couple of things we can try. " The effects of the cancer can be temporarily abated by reducing the mass of the tumor, through several treatment venues: surgerize the tumor to decrease mass; chemo, radiation or implanted wafers. None of these treatments will kill the cancer or cure the patient. But they all provide the hope of returning mental faculties to your loved one for some finite period of time.

In this case the combination of surgery and radiation (paid for by medicare) provided a window of 6 weeks of excellent mental acuity for this individual, six special, memorable and agonizing weeks for family and friends and six weeks to set things right and establish a program for provide for the long-term care of this individual's dependent.

If the "Independent Payment Advisory Board" will rule out Avastin. Breast cancer drug that in testing showed that by preventing blood flow to tumurs, it extended the amount of time until the disease worsened by more than five months. What is the likelihood that the IPAB will smile fondly upon my friend who might be happy with six weeks? That will be the smile of death. Thus no fear mongering here. I am thankful that this episode occurred pre-Obama.

Sure, after they have made headline-grabbing statements on death panels and pulling the plug, Republicans "explain" what they meant after the fact. But the original statements get widely circulated in the media, enough to stir up some fear and anxiety.

But the fear mongering is only a subset of what the right does. . . . . Mostly it is spin, distortion and exaggeration, all with the goal to influence public perception of the left in a negative way. Some of the more well known ones include: stimulus a failure, Dems are big government, Dems are anti-business, Obama is a Socialist / Marxist, government is the problem, heathcare reform rammed down our throats, healthcare reform a government takeover, Obama exploiting the economic crisis, out of control spending, etc and this great one from Mike Pence last week: "all that is good and great about this country could soon be gone".

[QUOTE=Toymann;412348]There may be a few more surprises left that get me to that 50 number. Time will only tell. That said, as long as there are more GOP senators that DEM senators, one might consider that as a win? Your thoughts. [/QUOTE]Sure.

[QUOTE]P. Remember I win the ties.[/QUOTE]Haha. . . . I don't remember discussing ties!

Not to count my chickens. . . . . But Delaware is a fairly safe bet. The risk would be if the Dem (Coons) sat back and assumed victory, but it's clear he is not going to take anything for granted.

Now as further evidence of GOP party unity, we have Murkowski running as a write-in candidate in the Alaska Senate race. What impact do you think this will have on the election results?

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;412480]OK, partner (MP & Co, I spent well-earned navel-gazing time educating you on what fear mongering is (since you didn't know when you opened up this can of worms) , and you throw out "death panels. " That is almost as bad as your first example..[/QUOTE]You don't have to like my examples. I just threw that in there since we were talking about fear mongering, healthcare and how the Republicans did nothing to contribute to the policy except highlight terms like Death Panels. Specifically Sarah Palin. And the right wing nut-o's.

Also if you want the ultimate example just go back to the reason we went to war with Iraq in the first place. OMG they have weapons of mass destruction. We have to go to war now. GWB not only lied but try to scare us to destroy them before they use the WMD on us.

Your Party USES FEAR MONGERING more than I have ever seen. Now I gave you 3 examples. You may not like those examples but oh well. To bad

For someone who likes to debate to be "right or correct". Your having a hard time getting there. Start of by admitting the Republicans Use Fear tactics and you might have some credibility.

[QUOTE=Esten;412486]But the fear mongering is only a subset of what the right does. . . . . Mostly it is spin, distortion and exaggeration, all with the goal to influence public perception of the left in a negative way. Some of the more well known ones include: stimulus a failure, Dems are big government, Dems are anti-business, Obama is a Socialist / Marxist, government is the problem, heathcare reform rammed down our throats, healthcare reform a government takeover, Obama exploiting the economic crisis, out of control spending, etc and this great one from Mike Pence last week: "all that is good and great about this country could soon be gone".[/QUOTE]Esten I agree with that.

Now we're talking. But is it fear mongering or is it politicizing a national defense issue? Well whatever it was, seemed to me that the Dems couldn't pile on that train fast enough. Look at all these war-crazed right-wing loons:

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the USA Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs. ". From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9,1998

"Saddam's goal. Is to achieve the lifting of you. And. Sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed. ". Madeline Albright, 1998

" (Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983". National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18,1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement. ". Barbara Boxer, November 8,2002.

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. ". Bill Clinton in 1998

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11,2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security. ". Hillary Clinton, October 10,2002

I point out the Democrat's hypocrisy in accusing Republican's of hurting the elderly while cutting funds from Medicare and the first thing Miamipro does is bring up "death panels" and Esten goes off on the "spin" tangent.

Let me mention another example of the Democratic hypocrisy, the Democrat's cut funds from the Food Stamp Program to help fund the Teacher's Union bailout, literally taking the food from the poor's mouths to give to the teachers unions. Now I am sure Miamipro and Esten will go Ouch! Got my dick slammed in the door AGAIN need to make accusations and change the subject.

You guys always follow Bill Clinton's mantra when faced with the truth:

Admit nothing! Deny everything! Make counter accusations!