American Politics during the Obama Presidency

Stan:

We all know that interest in the facts wanes when they (the facts) don't support one's point of view. While I don't want to cast aspersions, I can think of a couple posters who have little interest in facts, largely because there are few if any that support their agendas.

You are correct about the facts, I believe that there is little debate amongst knowledgeable folks regarding the origins and unraveling of the mortgage bubble. Those who insist that it was Bush's fault are just Liberal-caused-housing-bubble-leading to-global-economic-meltdown deniers.

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye; 412839]Stan:

We all know that interest in the facts wanes when they (the facts) don't support one's point of view. While I don't want to cast aspersions, I can think of a couple posters who have little interest in facts, largely because there are few if any that support their agendas.

You are correct about the facts, I believe that there is little debate amongst knowledgeable folks regarding the origins and unraveling of the mortgage bubble. Those who insist that it was Bush's fault are just Liberal-caused-housing-bubble-leading to-global-economic-meltdown deniers. [/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more. It's one of the reasons that I rarely respond to Esten. I labor under no impression that I could convince him of anything. He's too far gone for that. There are others who read the board, and occasionally he posts something that is outright false and worthy of correction. But, I agree: If the goal is to convince him or the latest interloper, MiamiPro, it's not worth the candle, as they say.

Another rat fled the sinking ship today. Rahm Emanuel turned tail and ran. [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101001/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_chief_of_staff[/url]

So, that leaves Geithner as the only top advisor left in less than two years. Frankly, Obama probably would have been better off had all the others stayed and Geithner left.

But, the departure of Rahm Emanuel will leave Obama better off [i]if[/i] his replacement, Pete Rouse, is as low key as the press makes him out to be. Emanuel was a bit too much like James Carville. Carville's antics could work during a campaign, but someone like that wears thin pretty quickly as part of an administration.

Now, if Obama fires David Axelrod next, then perhaps he'll start to back away from the dogmatic, socialist, true-believer agenda he's been peddling. I'm not betting on it, though. True believers generally don't change their spots, even when the ship is sinking.

It is well documented in this thread how many times right wing talking points have been recycled, in a one-sided manner in disregard to opposing facts. This recent claim that Fannie and Freddie were the primary cause of the housing bubble / economic mess is just the latest and greatest example.

To the extent that there is "little debate" on this topic, it's that knowledgeable folks acknowledge there were several contributing factors, and that Fannie/Freddie were not the primary factor. Only those who limit their news sources to far-right media could possibly be unaware of this.

The point has been made many times that Bush sought stronger oversight of the GSEs and Democrats resisted. This is true. But somehow we are supposed to believe, by a magical leap of faith, that if Dems had supported Bush, reforms would have been implemented, and in time, to significantly reduce the magnitude of the bubble and financial crisis. That's a mighty big leap of faith, which hasn't been and likely cannot be proven. But it's the conservative line, because it helps them shift blame to Dems and bring up their allegations of cronyism, which are really a deflection from the discussion as to how big a role the GSEs played in the crisis.

More to come. The conservative myth of the predominant role of Fannie/Freddie has been widely discredited, I will consolidate into a few main points.

Human nature being what it is, you put 2 people in a room, and all hell break loose. This thread is heading that way.

Argentina Private politically leans to the right and is sometimes intolerant to the left, even to moderate liberals. For the thread to be healthy, we need to tone down some of the personal insults and namecalling. And if you have to be hard, do it with some humor.

[QUOTE=Esten;412849]The conservative myth of the predominant role of Fannie/Freddie has been widely discredited[/QUOTE]We all know that the earth is turning into a gigantic ball of fire and that we will all perish due to effects of anthropogenic global warming.

Now, because you say this explanation of the origins of the housing crisis has been invalidated (with saying by whom or up what evidence this is based upon) we are supposed to accept it?

Oh, ok.

[QUOTE=Black Shirt;412851]Human nature being what it is, you put 2 people in a room, and all hell break loose. [/quote]

I have seen this happen first hand, several times. Most recently, it was at 1631 dpto 3D.

[quote=]Argentina Private politically leans to the right[/quote]

Depends on your perspective

[quote=] and is sometimes intolerant to the left, even to moderate liberals.[/quote]

I suffer fools gladly


[quote=] For the thread to be healthy, we need to tone down some of the personal insults and namecalling.[/quote]

"Well Mr. Helper. You remember that thing we had about 30 years ago called the Korean conflict? And how we failed to achieve victory? How come we didn't cross the 38th parallel and push those rice-eaters back to the Great Wall of China?

[quote=]And if you have to be hard, do it with some humor.[/QUOTE]

I've tried that. I think the language barrier impacts the comic delivery of a squirt in the eye. "Fue un accidente..."

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye; 412854]We all know that the earth is turning into a gigantic ball of fire and that we will all perish due to effects of anthropogenic global warming.

Now, because you say this explanation of the origins of the housing crisis has been invalidated (with saying by whom or up what evidence this is based upon) we are supposed to accept it?

Oh, ok. [/QUOTE]Especially most of Esten and Miamipros posts. Unlike most flaming liberals us republicans usually have a great sense of humor. Tick. Tick. Tick. Less than 30 days now. I still haven't conceeded that Madahos evening with Esten as I may still get my wish of more GOP than Dems in the senate in spite of tea party. Time will tell. Looks like the house is a lock!

Happy Mongering All,

Toymann

[QUOTE=Toymann;412857]Especially most of Esten and Miamipros posts.[/QUOTE]Whats really funny about my posts is the fact that your the punchline.

[QUOTE=Black Shirt;412851]Argentina Private politically leans to the right....[/QUOTE]Actualy, AP provides an equal voice to all political perspectives, which of course appears to be biased to liberals are used to dominating online political conversations.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson; 412880]Actualy, AP provides an equal voice to all political perspectives, which of course appears to be biased to liberals are used to dominating online political conversations.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Yes, it is true that Argentina Pirvate provides equal posting rights to all "faiths". I also agree that liberals do dominate mass media. But going ballistic on Argentina Private seem to be a right wing phenomenon.

[QUOTE=Toymann; 412857]Especially most of Esten and Miamipros posts. Unlike most flaming liberals us republicans usually have a great sense of humor. Tick. Tick. Tick. Less than 30 days now. I still haven't conceeded that Madahos evening with Esten as I may still get my wish of more GOP than Dems in the senate in spite of tea party. Time will tell. Looks like the house is a lock!

Happy Mongering All,

Toymann[/QUOTE]I thought my comment about health care in Cuba was pretty funny.

[QUOTE=Black Shirt;412881]Yes, it is true that Argentina Private provides equal posting rights to all "faiths". I also agree that liberals do dominate mass media. But going ballistic on Argentina Private seem to be a right wing phenomenon.[/QUOTE]Hi,

It appears to me that the liberals here have done a pretty good job of enunciating their positions and otherwise "standing up" to the independents, libertarians and conservatives.

Of course, my own perspective may be biased.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson; 412899]Hi,

It appears to me that the liberals here have done a pretty good job of enunciating their positions and otherwise "standing up" to the independents, libertarians and conservatives.

Of course, my own perspective may be biased.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Yes it is, but so is everyone's.

CNBC Special - Wed Oct.6 at 9pm

It's probably just a bunch of investment bankers complaining how Fannie and Freddie forced them to sell risky mortgage-backed products.