Cafe Exedra

[QUOTE=Rockin Bob]Just in case anybody was wondering.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exedra[/url][/QUOTE]Thanks for all the info Rockin. Much appreciated.

[QUOTE=Exon123]

But it still doesn't answer my question "WHY"

Why close it down before your ready for renovations, look at all the cash flow the've lost.[/QUOTE]I'm asking myself the same as you, Exon.

But you'll learn as time goes by that Argentina is a curious and non logic place when you talk about bussines.

No Caveman,

I'm quite aware of prosperess business that have been shut down for no apparent reason. Restaruant row in Recoleta a prime example. The owners of those building will never recover the lost revenue and the place is still a shambles.

But Exedra is another story. Thanks to Rocken Bob I now know a little of its history, what a famious place, "The Temple of Cats". What a story of a remarkable place all of us enjoyed.

Not knowing the financial structure, the overhead, rent, ect, ect the price of $1,300,000 seams cheap. They were charging an arm & a leg and the place was always full 24/7. Theres got to be a reason the old mans son sold, thats what I'm driving at --- WHY?

Exon

Mongers-

I hate to piss on everyone's Exedra love parade here, but the bottom line here is that Exedra was probably not nearly as profitable a business venture as one might think. First of all, just how much money do you think is being made off a group of 5 guys, drinking one 10 peso coffee each, sitting there for 3-4 hours? Not much! In addition, the article said they had 22 waiters, which probably means they had at least 6-10 kitchen / cleaning staff. So we are talking minimum 30 employees, which is ridiculous from an owners standpoint, that is minimum $100,000 AR per month of payroll expenses. In a bar business (where margins are much larger than cafe business) you need to have at least $2000 AR per week in sales per employee to break even. On top of all this, you have 21% IVA, 3% ingresos brutos, and impuestos ganancias (they definitely payed the first two, but maybe not the latter) Naturally, you then have the "extra" expenses which go along with the operation of a prostitution rendezvous point, which could range into the thousands of pesos monthly. All these hefty fixed costs plus the nature of the low turnover, low margin sales scheme in place combined with declining gross sales led the owner to dump the place for $1.3 million USD, and from a business standpoint, you cannot really blame him.

Suerte,

Dirk Diggler

Man, if I just inherited a restaurant that I could sell for 1.3 million bucks I'd have the For Sale sign up in a New York minute.

Today a quite interesting article about the history of this cafe was published in a local newspaper. If you can read Spanish or manage to go through it using an online translator, it could be an interesting activity (labor union leaders, famous writers, secret agents and escorts involved):

[url]http://www.criticadigital.com/impresa/index.php?secc=nota&nid=1450[/url]

All the best

[QUOTE=Dirk Diggler]Mongers-

I hate to piss on everyone's Exedra love parade here, but the bottom line here is that Exedra was probably not nearly as profitable a business venture as one might think. First of all, just how much money do you think is being made off a group of 5 guys, drinking one 10 peso coffee each, sitting there for 3-4 hours? Not much! In addition, the article said they had 22 waiters, which probably means they had at least 6-10 kitchen / cleaning staff. So we are talking minimum 30 employees, which is ridiculous from an owners standpoint, that is minimum $100,000 AR per month of payroll expenses. In a bar business (where margins are much larger than cafe business) you need to have at least $2000 AR per week in sales per employee to break even. On top of all this, you have 21% IVA, 3% ingresos brutos, and impuestos ganancias (they definitely payed the first two, but maybe not the latter) Naturally, you then have the "extra" expenses which go along with the operation of a prostitution rendezvous point, which could range into the thousands of pesos monthly. All these hefty fixed costs plus the nature of the low turnover, low margin sales scheme in place combined with declining gross sales led the owner to dump the place for $1.3 million USD, and from a business standpoint, you cannot really blame him.

Suerte,

Dirk Diggler[/QUOTE]Dirk,

Not withstanding the validity of your argument, but at 1,500 customers a day (per the article), at just $11 pesos each, then Exedra was a $500k peso per month business, against which a $100k payroll would appear reasonable.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Rockin Bob]Man, if I just inherited a restaurant that I could sell for 1.3 million bucks I'd have the For Sale sign up in a New York minute.[/QUOTE]Here's the difference.

Knowing the restaurant was worth a million bucks or so, I'd be much more interested in the cash flow, rather than the million in cash. This way "I'd have my cake and eat it too". I could always sell it if need be, but in the mean time I'd have a money machine and live "High off the Hog", plus a million bucks tucked away.

What most of the Mongers that post here don't realize is, "Money is not Important, Unless there's not enough of it". Thats when money becomes important, when you don't have enough of it. Until then its an insignificant tool we use to navigate threw life.

Sorry Dirk, I'm with Jackson below, Exedra made enough money to satisfy all my creature comforts, at least here in Buenos Aires. I mean any "Dumb MotherFucker" can spend money, that doesn't take any brains. If the numbers written below are true, your looking at 10 thousand dollars a month or so profit. How much can you spend before everyone starts looking at you as a "Stupid CockSucker". Moreover, what do you really need in Buenos Aires that would cost more that $10,000 dollars a month.

I'da kept the restaurant.

Exon

Your use of the word "Assuming" is the key to this deal.

We don't know the deal, we only know the price of the deal, a million, three, there are always deals with in deals.

Say for example, the owner that died owned Exedra out right and paid no rent. After 34 years thats a good possibility, frankly its more that likely he did given the stated price. If thats the case then a Million, Three is not out of the ball park. That being the case, $10,000 dollars a month is roughly a 10 precent return on invested capital. I can live with that all day everyday.

But were be-laboring the point. Its been my experience that Porteno's are not famious for over paying. If the new owner dropped down 1.3 million US he got more than a lease, don't you think. I mean would you drop that kind of money down just for the privledge of paying 10 to 20 thousand peso's a month in rent. Then close it down and not give a Fuck.

I'm saddend by the fact that it "IS" closed down and a real piece of Argentine history is gone forever and none of us can monger their again. It was the one place we could all monger on a relaxed basis and not get soked on drink prices. Plus I personally considered many of the employee's and girls that worked there friends.

Exon

[QUOTE=Guiller]Today a quite interesting article about the history of this cafe was published in a local newspaper. If you can read Spanish or manage to go through it using an online translator, it could be an interesting activity (labor union leaders, famous writers, secret agents and escorts involved):

[url]http://www.criticadigital.com/impresa/index.php?secc=nota&nid=1450[/url]

All the best[/QUOTE]Go back a few posts, Guiller! It's all translated, secret agent sidebar and all.

But thanks for the link, didn't know it was on-line.

[QUOTE=Sidney]100,000 pesos divided by 22 employes= about $1,500 USD per month, average per employe. Seems much too high for AR wages.[/QUOTE]Actually, accepting Dirk's number of 32 employees, which would include kitchen and cleaning staff, divided into 100k = $3,125 per employee per month. Subtracting out Argentina's 70% payroll burden yields an average salary of $1,840 per employee, which in today's inflationary environment appears reasonable. Hell, the encargado of my building gets paid $3,000 pesos a month.

Thanks,

Jackson

Obviously we can't know the motivation behind the seller and as we all know, there are many different reasons for someone to sell a business.

Does the price include the real estate? Did they have title to the lot on the corner? I'm sorry - I haven't picked up on that yet. If so, then the business itself is getting a lower valuation than $1.3M, as I imagine the land price takes up a nice piece of the purchase price.

But then that leads on to the question of whether you'd sell property today in central Buenos Aires. This is probably a discussion for another thread, but I'd have to take a hard look at where I think property values are going.

[QUOTE=Sidney]Actually, the return is nearer 9%. I would never accept that low of a return. I would require 20+% return on my capital to own an AR business. Oh well, It's all assumptions anyway![/QUOTE]If you can get 9 or 10% above inflation, it's not a bad investment. Inflation in Argentina is running about 20%. If he can raze prices every year by inflation, and keep a minimum of 9% profit on top of that, that not bad place to put your money. Plus it's not clear if he owns the space too, that value of the real estate should go up over time too. One of the best defenses against hyperinflation is property.

Lately there have a lot of Chicas from Exedra still there, standing in front waiting for you. The drinks do not cost anything, because the bar is closed, but you can get one nearby at La Madeleine or at l'Alliance.

Tonight there was a least 5 to 10 at different times.

Librarian 3 is there and at La Mads and Castelar, with a couple her blond amigas.

And which are the bad ones? I see lots there, but have only pulled a few of them.

Sorry guys, it does not look good for the future of Exedra.

At this very moment there is an auction going on. All the kitchen utensils and glassware. If you guys want glasses with their logo on it, you had better hurry.

You might have trouble finding the place, because it is so fucking smoggy, you will have a hard time seeing it from across 9 de Julio.

I bet they do not have smog alerts in B.A.

I thought I was in L. A.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69]Sorry guys, it does not look good for the future of Exedra.

At this very moment there is an auction going on. All the kitchen utensils and glassware. If you guys want glasses with their logo on it, you had better hurry.

You might have trouble finding the place, because it is so fucking smoggy, you will have a hard seeing it from across 9 de Julio.

I bet they do not have smog alerts.

I thought I was in L. A.[/QUOTE]Looks like a job for ace investigative reporter Aqualung. Wherefore art thou Aqualung?

[QUOTE=Doggboy]Wherefore art thou Aqualung?[/QUOTE]"... Sitting on a park bench, watching little girls with bad intent..."

I'll have to see what my informers have to say!;)

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69]Sorry guys, it does not look good for the future of Exedra.

At this very moment there is an auction going on. All the kitchen utensils and glassware. If you guys want glasses with their logo on it, you had better hurry.

You might have trouble finding the place, because it is so fucking smoggy, you will have a hard time seeing it from across 9 de Julio.

I bet they do not have smog alerts in be. A.

I thought I was in L. A.[/QUOTE]If someone paid $1,300,000 for Exedra, it make no sense that it not re-open. [url]http://www.criticadigital.com/impresa/index.php?secc=nota&nid=1450[/url] It's also possible this article is false?

If someone did pay 1.3M for it, then maybe the name is changing. Maybe a Court order the sale, to pay off x employees. But it should open at some point if someone paid so much for it.

What I was told by Michel who is working out of Iberia now, that all the x employees have settled, except for one, who wants more money, and it will go to trial. She told me this about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Also said the new owner was going to control, which girls work there and which can not. She did not explain how she knew all this. She said the old man who died, used to control which girls worked there before he died.

Maybe they'll be changing the name, or such of Exedra. I know that they kept troublemaker chicas out, I never heard of any chica getting booted for no reason. I think the new scheme, as it's been detailed, is vastly different. Basically like Cafe Orleans, where they chicas pay to be allowed a table (or a certain amount of consumption)

I have no interest in an Orleans style place, as you get a more rushed service, and you end up paying substantially more that if you deal with a chica that doesn't have the high overhead.

I can tell you that $1500.00 dollars a month for a fucking waiter is way out of line boys! Not even in the USA is that possible.

The Mafia (read restaurant worker's union) tells me what to pay the waiters and dishwashers, etc, etc.

The pay scale is set according to the level of the resto-bar.

1 star.

2 star.

3star.

4 star. (actually they are called ¨tenedor ¨ or forks?)

Tablecloths on the tables being the highest level or even serving Lomo I believe.

Anyway, the highest paid waiters are paid about 1500 - 1800 pesos with a large part of their pay going to retirement, pensions, medical care, etc.

Nobody makes 4500 pesos a month as a waiter on salary alone!

600 to 800 for a waiter or kitchen hand is normal. A chef or parrillero will be the highest paid mf! (always pesos on this boy's blogs!)

The Mafia even tells me what they can and cannot do as part of their job!

Dishwashers cannot clean floors and windows or bathrooms, etc. The MFs!

Just lost my first lawsuit. More to follow I'm sure! The MFs!

X shall return. But no one knows what it will be. Least of all a fat, pale, overfucked and overpriced street *****!

Cheers,

TL.

P. S - Missed the damn auction but I was going to buy all of the items that had X's logos on them. Damn it.

Makes me wonder why a bar would sell all of the resto-bar equipment. Many things were basic kitchen utensils and ovens, stoves, fridges, etc. MAKES NO SENSE if they are going to re-open as a food and or drink establishment. Only a totally custom kitchen but even then?

Selling ALL the old crap at big E only reinforces the speculation that a big chain food purveyor will occupy our favorite corner. They never deal in used.

Food prep stuff. (read Feddo / Volga, Mc Fatty d, or Bugger King)

Jackson, start a poll to guess the next operation to fill the Exedra space.

Jackpot

[QUOTE=Jackpot]Selling ALL the old crap at big E only reinforces the speculation that a big chain food purveyor will occupy our favorite corner. They never deal in used.

Food prep stuff. (read Feddo / Volga, Mc Fatty d, or Bugger King)

Jackson, start a poll to guess the next operation to fill the Exedra space.

Jackpot[/QUOTE]The owners of Rond Point plus some other bars and coffee shops.

[QUOTE=Jackpot]Selling ALL the old crap at big E only reinforces the speculation that a big chain food purveyor will occupy our favorite corner. They never deal in used.

Food prep stuff. (read Feddo / Volga, Mc Fatty d, or Bugger King)

Jackson, start a poll to guess the next operation to fill the Exedra space.

Jackpot[/QUOTE]The article says the new owner is Rafael Pereira Aragón, who owns Rond Point, Las Violetas and el Café de los Angelitos.

No one knows his plans for the place. I think he will keep the girls, since it brings more buiness. But no one knows, except Michel :). Just kidding TejanoLibre.

It's in spanish.

[url]http://www.criticadigital.com/impresa/index.php?secc=nota&nid=1450[/url]

Tessan - This article has already been translated here by Rocking Bob:

[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2011&page=3&pp=15[/url]

According to my informers;)

The idea is another Rond Point style coffee shop aimed more at the Argentine business man, the local Jet Set and high class tourists than at the mongering crowd. This does not necessarily exclude girls but it will set a standard for the quality of the girls. Models and so on!

This means the upping of everything from cutlery to tables and chairs. This is why they have auctioned off all the old stuff.

Someone who has spent 1.3 million on a bar isn't going to worry about spending another hundred grand or two!

We'll see how much of this is true

[QUOTE=Aqualung]According to my informers;)

The idea is another Rond Point style coffee shop aimed more at the Argentine business man, the local Jet Set and high class tourists than at the mongering crowd. This does not necessarily exclude girls but it will set a standard for the quality of the girls. Models and so on!

This means the upping of everything from cutlery to tables and chairs. This is why they have auctioned off all the old stuff.

Someone who has spent 1.3 million on a bar isn't going to worry about spending another hundred grand or two!

We'll see how much of this is true[/QUOTE]Too bad. It looks like Exedra in name, and otherwise, is history. Thanks Aqualung for a little clearer picture on this hazy day.:)

I was at Iberia and saw the waiter Caesar, from Exedra. He was drunk, and the manager of Iberia was kicking him out.

I ask him what going on with Exedra, he did not know, then I ask him if they gave him a big payout when they closed Exedra. He said he got nothing. He was drunk, so it hard to know, but he said nothing. He worked at Exedra a long time.

Here are a few photos, lest we forget.

Thank You WT69

What beautful memories we all have of Excedra it almost make's me cry.

Exon

I walked by there a few weeks back. They had the door facing Cordoba propped open. I looked in and the place was fully gutted. It looked like they took a jackhammer to the walls and the posts.

More than likely it was just one guy with a hammer beating on it for a month.

Will rent out the place.

Maybe a bank or something else, getting ROI.

Sold for 3,400 square meters at 30usd / each.

Let us be lucky to have "Exedra" in our memories and fuck the idiot (son of the owner) who sold our "oasis de alegria".

The latest that I have is that they are set to re-open on Dec. 5th. 2008.

It is gutted at this moment and your probably correct in assuming that one guy with a hammer did it all!

3rd. World Wrecking Crew!

They had been unable to locate the main gas line until recently. Buried somewhere in the basement and maybe made of something that is not metalic so metal detectors could not locate it. ()

That's what I heard from the shoe-shine guy.

The chicas that I talked to yesterday told me that they are planning to return but for now they remain standing by my closed and dusty front door!

There is a new, super hot, young street walker that hangs near X from about 6 p on.

5'7, dark hair, tan, very sexy Paraguayan type!

Too nice for the street boys!

See Ya,

TL

[QUOTE=TejanoLibre]The latest that I have is that they are set to re-open on Dec. 5th. 2008.

It is gutted at this moment and your probably correct in assuming that one guy with a hammer did it all!

3rd. World Wrecking Crew!

They had been unable to locate the main gas line until recently. Buried somewhere in the basement and maybe made of something that is not metalic so metal detectors could not locate it. (

That's what I heard from the shoe-shine guy.

The chicas that I talked to yesterday told me that they are planning to return but for now they remain standing by my closed and dusty front door!

There is a new, super hot, young street walker that hangs near X from about 6 p on.

5'7, dark hair, tan, very sexy Paraguayan type!

Too nice for the street boys!

See Ya,

TL[/QUOTE]Very good news if its true.

Exon

Need to contact a Polish blonde, Monica, who park herself most afternoons at the cafe, always sitting along. She was very nice to me from the get go and I saw her 3 times in 3 trips. The last session, she just about attack me. My contact # was lost together with a Spanish dictionary in Chile, I believe.

Here are a few shots of what it looks like now.