2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=Dccpa; 424239][url]Http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness[/url]

WW read the above executive order. BO gave himself dictatorial powers to seize all food, water, transportation, labor, etc. And for any reason he decides, not just wartime. What scares me most about this executive order is that he put it out before the election. The second most thing that scares me is that most people either aren't aware of the executive order or don't believe he will use it.[/QUOTE]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the right depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the right wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.

From the link below: This executive order is based in part on the Defense Production Act of 1950, which mobilized America for the Korean War. Basically that law granted the Executive branch of government broad authority in the economy: to compel businesses to sign contracts to produce goods for the national defense, to set wage and price controls, especially on raw materials, and to even requisition property that might be useful for national defense. The Act has been reauthorized many times, most recently in 2008 by President Bush, who had previously re-authorized it in 2003. President Clinton did the same in 1994. If you read the order from Obama, it [i]delegates[/i] Authority previously conferred on the President, to others. So it can be argued Obama is reducing the power of the President, not increasing it.

Don't fall for bs Republican conspiracy theories.

[url]http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-19/politics/31209114_1_water-resources-respect-secretary[/url]

[QUOTE=Esten;424241]When you see people equating raising taxes with theft...you know the kool-aid is working.[/QUOTE]I live in Texas. I pay state and local taxes, as imposed by the elected representatives in my community and in my state, to pay for schools, roads, police, and medical care for the indigent. I have no problem with that, as those services are provided reasonably efficiently and as the level of taxation isn't extortionate.

Pelosi, Reid and other politicians I did not elect propose to tax me at the rates in excess of 40% and in return will provide diddly squat. Virtually nothing. They'll help pay for the interstate highways and airports with my money. That's about it, in terms of services I use.

Just exactly why isn't this theft? A lot of people would argue that you're the one drinking the kool-aid. That would include the founders of the country, if they were still alive:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party[/url]

What Grade Did You Get To, that your brother Republicans Don't What You to Get Too? Maybe with a Mind to think for yourself?

The Rich want all us equal to the rest of us poor.

Toymann Maybe you might Need It?

One of the factors supporting the idea of replacing the E college system with a direct vote system.

[QUOTE=Big Boss Man;424228]My vote literally does not count either way and hasn't for several years. Virginians, Ohioans and Floridians are the actual deciders.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69; 424247]What Grade Did You Get To, that your brother Republicans Don't What You to Get Too? Maybe with a Mind to think for yourself?

The Rich want all us equal to the rest of us poor.[/QUOTE]WT,

With all due respect, anyone who writes this incoherently has no standing to question anybody's schooling.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;424248]California is Setting Up the Health Care For All[/QUOTE]Really?

So how exactly are they going to pay for this?

Or is that not a consideration?

[QUOTE=Esten; 424241]Part of the reason Romney is struggling is because of the faltering efforts at deception Republicans are clearly engaged in. No doubt they continue this effort because they have lured many into their upside down world, and hope to lure a few more. When you see people equating raising taxes with theft, and claiming that Obama hates America, you know the kool-aid is working. Fortunately, most people see such right wing messaging for the rubbish it is.

Romney was stumping this week on the quote from Obama that businessmen "didn't build that". Of course Obama was refering to the infrastructure that has helped many businesses, but the way he phrased it gave Romney an opening to distort it. Now if someone really believed businessmen weren't involved in building their businesses, such a person would be an idiot and undeserving of public office.

It might seem surprising that Romney ran with this, but it isn't really. Deception is a core strategy on the right, and Obama's statement came at a convenient time, when Romney was getting pummeled by questions about Bain Capital and his taxes. The result? Multiple speeches and quickly made commercials from Romney. Apparently Romney thinks you're stupid enough to believe this, or at the very least, that there are enough stupid people who might believe it and give him a boost in the polls.

Some people will believe Romney and think "Obama really is clueless about business.". Romney is depending on this demographic. But for those who think for themselves, Romney's argument is bogus, and he comes across as little more than a con-man. Not a surprise from a man who has a long, clear record of saying anything to get elected.[/QUOTE]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.

[QUOTE=Esten;424241]Part of the reason Romney is struggling is because of the faltering efforts at deception Republicans are clearly engaged in. No doubt they continue this effort because they have lured many into their upside down world, and hope to lure a few more. When you see people equating raising taxes with theft, and claiming that Obama hates America, you know the kool-aid is working.[/quote]Says the Kool-aid guzzling champion of the world.

[quote=]Fortunately, most people see such right wing messaging for the rubbish it is.[/quote]I live in a very blue state and I hear complete dissatisfaction with Obama, from my fellow statesmen, all the time. The big difference is in how people view the 'why' of his miserable failure. Most people don't want to believe the truth. That his destruction of America is deliberate. So long as they don't vote for him in November, I don't care if they believe the truth.

[quote=]Romney was stumping this week on the quote from Obama that businessmen "didn't build that". Of course Obama was refering to the infrastructure that has helped many businesses,[/quote]Did you even listen to the speech or any of the other similar, Marxist-populist blather he sprays around, like Fred Willard in an adult theater? He absolutely said it and he absolutely clarified that he was not just referring to the infrastructure (which BTW, was built 100% by TAXPAYER money).

[quote=]but the way he phrased it gave Romney an opening to distort it.[/quote]Do you drink it straight or on the rocks?

[quote=]Now if someone really believed businessmen weren't involved in building their businesses, such a person would be an idiot and undeserving of public office.[/quote]Why then don't you vote for Romney?

[quote=]It might seem surprising that Romney ran with this,[/quote]What? Your opponent, in an American presidential election, tells the world that entrepreneurship is a myth and that collectivism is the only way forward and you think he should ignore it? I wish you were running Obama's campaign.

[quote=]but it isn't really. Deception is a core strategy on the right,[/quote]That's right, Mr. Alinsky. When they throw the truth at you, baffle them with bullsh*t and call them names.

[quote=]and Obama's statement came at a convenient time,[/quote]It was his most recent "Joe the Plumber" moment when he goes off script and gives the world a glimpse of who he really is and what he really thinks. If he was honest with the people in 2007-08, he never would have been elected in the first place.

[quote=]when Romney was getting pummeled by questions about Bain Capital and his taxes.[/quote]Pummeled? According to the polls, only you and the main stream media give a rat's ass about those two non-issues. Romney has been far more transparent that Obama. Maybe when we see all the info behind Fast & Furious, a situation in which the US Attorney General (or senior members of his staff) were legally complicit in more than 2, 000 felonies (knowingly allowing firearms to cross the boarder into Mexico) and the murders of 300 Mexicans and two US agents. I think that is a little more relevant than disclosing tax years that are not required.

[quote=]The result? Multiple speeches and quickly made commercials from Romney. Apparently Romney thinks you're stupid enough to believe this, or at the very least, that there are enough stupid people who might believe it and give him a boost in the polls.[/quote]Whatever it is, it's working. Check the polls.

[quote=]Some people will believe Romney and think "Obama really is clueless about business.".[/quote]Why do people need to believe Romney when they can believe their own eyes? The truly sad thing is that Obama isn't clueless. His economic destruction is deliberate.

[quote=]Romney is depending on this demographic. But for those who think for themselves, Romney's argument is bogus, and he comes across as little more than a con-man. Not a surprise from a man who has a long, clear record of saying anything to get elected.[/QUOTE]Romney wasn't my guy, until he got the de facto nomination. I'd vote for Homer J. Simpson over Obama, any day. It is heart warming to see that you still have no substance to any of your arguments and that you have never put a single factual reference in any of your posts to actually back up the spittle that you spray.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69; 424247]What Grade Did You Get To, that your brother Republicans Don't What You to Get Too? Maybe with a Mind to think for yourself?

The Rich want all us equal to the rest of us poor.[/QUOTE]You're killing me. I hate to take issue with someone who has done so much for me.

However, I would suggest that, during a quiet, post-coital moment sipping cafe and dining on demi lunas, that you jot down on a napkin two lists. The first should be impediments (of any kind) to individual success in America and the latter should be keys to individual success in America. Afterwards, you can ponder who wants you to succeed and who wants you firmly ensconced in a monolithic voting block.

BYW, if we are in town, at the same time (late Aug-Sept, I think), I'm buying and I will gladly listen to your political beliefs. Who knows, maybe I can repay your extensive efforts by setting you straight.

Monger on!

[QUOTE=Jackson;424253]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.[/QUOTE]Jackson, as you know I like facts to back up my arguments. Could you provide some examples of things from the left that weren't false?

If liberals were honest with the voters, they would be a tiny minority of our elected officials, relegated mostly to municipal positions and the Congressional seats of our most liberal cities. If Esten or any of our other resident liberals would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful liberal campaign that ran truthfully on a liberal platforms extolling liberal principals, I'd appreciate it.

More plagiarism from Jackson, taking my statement and substituting "right" with "left". He's done this before. You'll notice when I referred to doing more research, I actually then [i]presented[/i] research which proved a Republican talking point to be false. But Jackson doesn't present any research to refute my points. So his attempt to be cute only reinforces the point about a lack of substance from the right.

I got a good laugh over this poster. [url]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564526_448426308513042_431389878_n.jpg[/url] Bill is definitely more my type of guy than either of the family men Obama or Romney. For you Republicans, yeah I know if Dole had been elected 9-11 would not have occurred. Reagan had the reputation as great cocksman in his younger Hollywood days.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 424245]I live in Texas. I pay state and local taxes, as imposed by the elected representatives in my community and in my state, to pay for schools, roads, police, and medical care for the indigent. I have no problem with that, as those services are provided reasonably efficiently and as the level of taxation isn't extortionate.

Pelosi, Reid and other politicians I did not elect propose to tax me at the rates in excess of 40% and in return will provide diddly squat. Virtually nothing. They'll help pay for the interstate highways and airports with my money. That's about it, in terms of services I use.

Just exactly why isn't this theft?[/QUOTE]Taxation is a legal and economic necessity to pay for government programs and debt. No single taxpayer gets to choose exactly how tax dollars are spent, or to ensure all their tax dollars will benefit them personally. The best you can do is vote for those whose views on spending most closely match your own. If a different party wins the election, and they spend on programs their voters wanted, they are not stealing from you. You just ended up in the minority of a democratic process.

That is how our system works. Only someone focused on themselves, a 'What's in it for me? ' mentality, is going to characterize this as theft.

BTW, it's not just spending. We have a few trillion in debt to pay as well. A debt that came partly from increased spending from Obama, but mostly from Bush unfunded legacy spending, and Bush Tax Cuts and the recession which significantly defunded the government. That recession was largely attributable to conservative free-market policies. Greed is good, right? You know where that money went? Mostly into the pockets of the very wealthy. This country is getting screwed by Wall Street and the likes of Mitt Romney.

Wait till the ads come out en masse on the Romney-supported spending cuts to balance the budget (except for Defense, which he wants to increase). That will be the nail in the coffin for him. Check the polls, voters will never accept deep cuts to Medicare and other benefits, to pay for more tax breaks for the wealthy. Only a sucker would support such a policy.

I don't know what came over me, to stoop down to Toymann's level.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 424251]WT,

With all due respect, anyone who writes this incoherently has no standing to question anybody's schooling.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;424255]Pummeled? According to the polls, only you and the main stream media give a rat's ass about those two non-issues. Romney has been far more transparent that Obama.[/QUOTE]Well then, why have several Republicans, including on Fox News, been calling for Romney to release more tax returns? Why is Obama revealing the names of his bundlers, but Romney isn't? As usual, your statements are inconsistent with the facts. Behind your eloquent writing, unfortunately lies a man still gripped with ODS. Welcome back Walleye.

BTW these issues aren't going away. Romney's past business experience and tax returns are highly relevent, they provide insight into his values and his views on business. What they both tell us is Romney is a profiteer, not a job creator.

Please stop Esten, your killing me. I fell out of my chair I was laughing so hard from your most recent posts. I may have injured myself.

Team Obama's Bain Capital B / S:

Even the Washington paper's own fact checker in addition to your favorite liberal fact checker site has said the exporting jobs thing is totally false but the liberals keep pushing it. Add to that the total B / S of the SEC filings, even Team Obama knows it's B / S but they are still putting it out there hoping someone believes it. Do you think for one second the SEC would not be all over Romney if one word of it was true?

Taxes:

Oh I just love this one. With 49+% of the folks NOT PAYING ANY income tax and the other 50+% of the folks paying it all and you want to harp on how 'fair' it is to keep raising taxes on the 'rich' which is now anyone making over $200K a year. I can only assume you know nothing about business since profits get plowed back into the company for expansion, if you tax the profit away no expansion ie no jobs.

Deficit:

When you started talking about raising taxes to pay off the debt, that's the one I fell out of my chair on. Obama has generated a $1 Trillion dollar + deficit every year he has been in office. It's the spending stupid! No matter how much you raise taxes the spending out strips it every time. Spending has to be cut and that is the only way to end this cycle.

All the arguing will be over come Nov 7th.

If Team Obama continues the way they are going, Europe continues to slide, and unemployment remains above 8%, Obama is toast. I have not seen one forcaster who believes Europe, the US economy nor unemployment will make any improvement before the elction.

Never confuse personality with pocketbook when it come to getting elected Folks vote their pocketbooks when times are hard!

Monger on Dudes

[QUOTE=Esten;424267]Well then, why have several Republicans, including on Fox News, been calling for Romney to release more tax returns? Why is Obama revealing the names of his bundlers, but Romney isn't? As usual, your statements are inconsistent with the facts.[/quote]The facts are that Romney has been far more transparent than the Liar in Chief and has complied with all necessary election laws. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true, whether it is Fox News, Republicans or Democrats. We do know, however, that if it comes out of Obama's mouth, it is rarely true.

[quote=]Behind your eloquent writing, unfortunately lies a man still gripped with ODS.[/quote]Will Cipro clear that up?

[quote=]Welcome back Walleye.[/quote]It's good to be back.

[quote=]BTW these issues aren't going away. Romney's past business experience and tax returns are highly relevent, they provide insight into his values and his views on business.[/quote]The tax returns that he is required to disclose, are already public. No one seems to care about what is in them. He should not release any more and I believe most intelligent people would agree, it just plays into the opposition. If they can ask for things that are not required, when will it stop? It won't. It is a form of extortion and it knows no end.

What they do provide is insight into what one can achieve in America. I bet far more Americans would like to file a tax return like those as opposed to taking Obama's food stamps.

His values? I don't think that there is any comparison. The people will decide.

[quote=]What they both tell us is Romney is a profiteer, not a job creator.[/QUOTE]I guess I would be happy with someone who just isn't a job destroyer like Obama. If it weren't for removing a couple million people from the calculation of unemployed, the rate would be over 10%. The real rate of unemployed and under employed is north of 17%. That's a lot of people (3-5x the margin of Obama's '08 victory) with time on their hands to think about whether or not they want four more years of this bullsh*t.

There is one reason and one reason only you never hear anyone on Team Obama mention the word "deficit." That is because he has increased it more than all the presidents before him, combined. He cannot defend anything in his record. He won't even mention Obamacare, which is supposed to be his great achievement and legacy.

His increases to the deficit were purely partisan payoffs and an attempt to cripple the country he despises by creating an unsustainable level of debt. The deficit under Obama has increased by $4. 7T which is nearly 50% of the deficit, the day he took office. His deficits will be $10T in 10 years, $20T in 20 years, $40T in 30 years, $80T in 40 years and so one, without any further governmental action. And without including the cost of Obamacare.

That's a good one, Esten. The deficit. Now, I have to wipe up the coffee that I blew out my nose when I read your post.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 424269]Even the Washington paper's own fact checker in addition to your favorite liberal fact checker site has said the exporting jobs thing is totally false but the liberals keep pushing it. Add to that the total B / S of the SEC filings, even Team Obama knows it's B / S but they are still putting it out there hoping someone believes it. Do you think for one second the SEC would not be all over Romney if one word of it was true?[/QUOTE]Since the two of the key businesses that Romney made his fortune on were Staples and Dominos obviously he did not export jobs. I do not need a fact checker to figure that one out. However, Romney does include in his 100, 000 jobs created those two companies. I am not dumb enough to believe that I could not buy office supplies or have a pizza delivered without those two companies. Give Romney credit that he bought out the original entrepreneurs and improved the business so that each holds significant if not dominate market share. Often entrepreneurs are great idea men but lousy managers. My Dad knew Harold Butler (airplanes parked on the same hanger row) who started Winchells and Dennys among other businesses. Butler was brilliant idea man but a horrible manager. If you read his history most of the businesses he created are now run by private equity similar to Bain.

[QUOTE=Esten; 424244]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the right depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the right wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.

From the link below: This executive order is based in part on the Defense Production Act of 1950, which mobilized America for the Korean War. Basically that law granted the Executive branch of government broad authority in the economy: to compel businesses to sign contracts to produce goods for the national defense, to set wage and price controls, especially on raw materials, and to even requisition property that might be useful for national defense. The Act has been reauthorized many times, most recently in 2008 by President Bush, who had previously re-authorized it in 2003. President Clinton did the same in 1994. If you read the order from Obama, it [i]delegates[/i] Authority previously conferred on the President, to others. So it can be argued Obama is reducing the power of the President, not increasing it.

Don't fall for bs Republican conspiracy theories.

[url]http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-19/politics/31209114_1_water-resources-respect-secretary[/url][/QUOTE]It states in the EO that it is from the Defense Production Act, that is not news. So if Bush and Clinton, two of the Presidents responsible for wrecking our economy have issued similar executive orders then its ok? The difference between BO & Clinton / Bush is that BO has the type of personality that would use this order on the American Public. The drones have been authorized for a reason.

BO expanded the EO to include the Dept of Homeland the Security. The same DHS whose head has labled people who believe in state's rights as terrorists and the same DHS that has purchased hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition. Between the Patriot Act, this EO, and the plethora of other laws passed in the last few years, all in the name of protecting us, I feel far less safe than ever before.

The law was mainly put in to keep certain machines or processes (ie big sumbitches that no body makes anymore) up and running to keep domestic production possible.

Although 95% of all carbon fiber used in all sorts of defense shit is made in japan, there is one loom in texas thats it.

Making shafts and propellers for navy ships is also another do do bird waiting to happen.

Bright side is we make more tritium than any other country, and export it, to the UK mainly.

I once had to move a vey large machine cross country and dealt with the defense dept wanting to know where it was going and what it would be used for the company also had to tell the DOD if they were going to shut it down. Its still up and running today making shit that goes o China for damns LOL

[QUOTE=Big Boss Man;424275]Since the two of the key businesses that Romney made his fortune on were Staples and Dominos obviously he did not export jobs. I do not need a fact checker to figure that one out. However, Romney does include in his 100, 000 jobs created those two companies. I am not dumb enough to believe that I could not buy office supplies or have a pizza delivered without those two companies. Give Romney credit that he bought out the original entrepreneurs and improved the business so that each holds significant if not dominate market share. Often entrepreneurs are great idea men but lousy managers. My Dad knew Harold Butler (airplanes parked on the same hanger row) who started Winchells and Dennys among other businesses. Butler was brilliant idea man but a horrible manager. If you read his history most of the businesses he created are now run by private equity similar to Bain.[/QUOTE]Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.

[QUOTE=SnakeOilSales;424280]Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.[/QUOTE]You are trying to sell some snake oil. Even Obama and Paul Krugman wouldn't agree about the outsourcing in their heart of hearts. Obama is saying it though, to get votes. The USA has the highest standard of living of any country in the world with a poplulation over 5 million. One reason is because of free trade. We export lower paying jobs and keep the value added work here. American manufacturing actually has been growing in recent years. This trend would accelerate if USA corporations were allowed to repatriate foreign profits and re-invest them in the USA without paying extortionate taxes. Also if school systems were reformed to train more skilled workers instead of trying to send everyone to universities to get liberal arts degrees. Unfortunately that's not going to happen as long as Democrats are in power.

Romney did the exact opposite of what you describe for pension funds for public employees. Bain has produced good returns for the pension funds that invest with it. Raiding retirement funds is what the left does, like Cristina Kirchner and Hugo Chavez.

WT69, You're right, kind of. While I did get to a high grade, I only had one professor who was a Marxist, and only a few college classes that weren't related to science. So I guess I'm not qualified to think for myself, and should let others do that for me.

I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.

Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20% - 80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70%.

Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed - Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.

And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.

It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but also that romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.

But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.

While there are many jobs openings out there they are for people with skills. Sorry liberal arts majors and morons need not apply, they need people with REAL skills who can actually do something.

A minimum wage job under Romney is better than what Obama wants. Obama wants you dependent on the government, on welfare, or unemployment and using food stamps to insure you never leave the Federal Plantation.

Fall to your knees brothers and sisters before the second coming; he has come to take care of you and all your needs and he will tell what those needs are. All hail the Ruling Elite, All hail Obama.

At least until Nov 7th

[QUOTE=SnakeOilSales;424280]Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.[/QUOTE]I guess we all know which you would chose between minimum wage and Obama-stamps. By the way, real businesses that don't get Obama-bucks (Solyndra et al) actually have to turn a profit in order to stay in business. Way to go, let's get rid of all the people who know how to do something right!

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 424288]I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.

Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20%.80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70.

Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed. Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.

And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.

It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.

But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.[/QUOTE]I am not criticizing Romney for saving pizza and office supply businesses; I am criticizing Romney for bragging about saving and creating jobs in those industries, which are nothing more than borderline minimum wage jobs that offer little or no opportunity for advancement or benefits. Obama's support for the auto industry bailouts, on the other hand, actually saved / created REAL jobs that pay an actual living wage with health benefits AND both of the auto manufacturers that accepted bailouts are now profitable.

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;424298]I guess we all know which you would chose between minimum wage and Obama-stamps. By the way, real businesses that don't get Obama-bucks (Solyndra et al) actually have to turn a profit in order to stay in business. Way to go, let's get rid of all the people who know how to do something right![/QUOTE]Solyndra was a disaster; end of story. Obama deserves blame for wasting tens of billions of the taxpayer's money, much in the same mode that Bush deserves the blame for wasting more than $1 TRILLION dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan due to poor accounting, over invoicing, corruption, and graft. There is probably about $1 TRILLION dollars sitting in private bank accounts in Dubai that has been siphoned off from the war / reconstruction effort in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tell the board honestly, WW, if you would recommend your family, friends, or even yourself to work at either Staples or Dominoes pizza. Do you think you could make enough money delivering pizzas to pay a mortgage, your own health insurance, send your kids to college, and maybe take a family vacation once a year? Who do you think its in a better financial position; the dominoes pizza guy, or the GM factory worker? Do you believe (be honest) that the average American even deserves these basic niceties, or that they should just live in a trailer and only earn enough money to feed themselves on a daily ration of fast food?

Snake, your getting as bad as Esten or perhaps as good a keeping us laughing.

So here is the nexus of the argument between you and us terrible conservatives:

According to your posts its better for a person to remain on the Federal Plantation receiving welfare / unemployment, food stamps and Medicaid than to take charge of your life and get a job if it is for minimum wage?

Speaking of GM, what a success story, taking taxpayer money to build a car no one wants, except Obama wants to outfit the entire federal fleet with Volts, screwing the debt holders and handing their share of the company to the unions, while playing a shell game with finances – paying one federal loan off with proceeds from another. Chrysler is even better, selling it off to Fait who is not too happy with the bargain now.

Another good belly laugh is those sterling individuals at GM may find themselves 'rich' under Obama's definition. If they are a two wage earner family at almost anything but an entry level job at GM they are making more the $250K a year. Don't you remember the little played interview with one GM and one Chrysler line employee? They were grousing back in 2008 about what a bad year it had been because they only made $98K that year. I think that got about two plays on the air before they ditched it, since it was hard to feel sorry for folks making that much money.

This is illuminating. According to Obama entry level jobs are worthless and receiving welfare is better than accepting entry level jobs.

I worked in pizza joints, hamburger joints and had a paper route and was happy to have these jobs. They were entry level jobs and they were essential to me. I saved the money I earned for college.

Good grief, the atmosphere of entitlement that Obama is fostering is terrifying.

By the way, it is not hard to understand why Obama defiles entry level jobs. Probably because Obama has never had a real job in his life. entry level or otherwise.

[QUOTE=Jackson;424253]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Esten;424258]More plagiarism from Jackson, taking my statement and substituting "right" with "left". He's done this before. You'll notice when I referred to doing more research, I actually then [i]presented[/i] research which proved a Republican talking point to be false. But Jackson doesn't present any research to refute my points. So his attempt to be cute only reinforces the point about a lack of substance from the right.[/QUOTE]Esten,

I was mocking you, but apparently I was too subtle.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=SnakeOilSales;424302]Bush deserves the blame for wasting more than $1 TRILLION dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan due to poor accounting, over invoicing, corruption, and graft.[/QUOTE]Yea, what a waste that was, decimating Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and subsequently liberating 40 million people from the throes of a murderous dictator in Iraq.

[QUOTE=Dccpa; 424277]It states in the EO that it is from the Defense Production Act, that is not news. So if Bush and Clinton, two of the Presidents responsible for wrecking our economy have issued similar executive orders then its ok? The difference between BO & Clinton / Bush is that BO has the type of personality that would use this order on the American Public. The drones have been authorized for a reason.

BO expanded the EO to include the Dept of Homeland the Security. The same DHS whose head has labled people who believe in state's rights as terrorists and the same DHS that has purchased hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition. Between the Patriot Act, this EO, and the plethora of other laws passed in the last few years, all in the name of protecting us, I feel far less safe than ever before.[/QUOTE]Funny how you guys operate. You originally came on here blazing with your claim "BO gave himself dictatorial powers". Then when I put it in context, you respond oh yeah, that's in the EO, that is not news.

Now that the birther conspiracy has been discredited, the GOP needs a new conspiracy to feed the gullible. Looks like "drones spying on Americans" falls in that category. I went looking for a photo, all I found was one photoshopped photo showing one flying near some cows. It's clearly photoshopped. Only a fool would fall for their shit.

Ironically, the House GOP passed a bill that orders the FAA to develop regulations for the testing and licensing of commercial drones. Republicans have raised some concerns about privacy, but they support this emerging industry. I guess it would be anti-business not to.

Dccpa, it sounds like you are simply determined to believe in Obama conspiracy theories, no matter what.

With Bin Laden and numerous other al-Qaida leaders now taken out, I personally feel more safe than before.

The US Department of Energy has at least 3 programs, which have guaranteed loans totalling about $38 Billion:

46% through the 1705 program
30% through the 1703 program
24% through the ATVM (Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing)

These programs are estimated to have created 63000 jobs, to have contributed to the drop in solar energy costs (making solar energy more economically viable, benefitting US consumers and businesses), and giving the US a stronger footprint in this growth industry, rather than letting China completely dominate.

Solyndra was funded $500 Million through the 1705 program, which represents about 1.3% of the total portfolio.

Focusing only on Solyndra, is like focusing on the small mole on Scarlett Johannson's cheek.

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 424288]I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.

Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20%.80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70.

Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed. Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.

And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.

It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but also that romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.

But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.[/QUOTE]Of course Romney has business experience. So does Donald Trump. That doesn't qualify them to be President. We need to vote on the values and policy positions of the candidates.

And this is why Clinton supports Obama, not Romney. Clinton is on record that Romney would be "calamitous for our country and the world." He also said Republicans' "economics are wrong-headed and their politics are worse."

Clinton knows what he is talking about.

And your last statement is a complete lie. Obama believes individuals are responsible for their success, but in many cases, the government has also [i]contributed[/i] to that success.

Esten.

I am with Jackson. Listening to you is similar to listening to a talking rock, talking marshmellow or a potted plant that talks. You just don't get it.

The government did not contribute to anybodies success. Whatever the government has done, build roads etc was done by the private sector with the taxes the private sector paid. The government has no, none as in 0 income except for what the government extorts from the private sector.

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 424311]This is illuminating. According to Obama entry level jobs are worthless and receiving welfare is better than accepting entry level jobs.

I worked in pizza joints, hamburger joints and had a paper route and was happy to have these jobs. They were entry level jobs and they were essential to me. I saved the money I earned for college.

Good grief, the atmosphere of entitlement that Obama is fostering is terrifying.

By the way, it is not hard to understand why Obama defiles entry level jobs. Probably because Obama has never had a real job in his life. Entry level or otherwise.[/QUOTE]This is exactly the point. Entry level jobs are ideal for high school and college kids and everybody works in those types of jobs when they are at that point in their life. However, they simply do not pay nearly enough to raise a family on. Romney has no business raving about creating these kinds of jobs when they are, almost by definition, dead end borderline minimum wage jobs.

They are jobs and important to the people who have them. Unfortuneately, Obama prevents the creation of jobs at any level.

I can see it now. Obama wants to eliminate entry level jobs in order to get the real unemployment rate over 20%. Whoops, we are already there. One more step in Obama's plan to destroy the economy of the United states.

But i am giving Obama too much credit. Obama isn't purposely destroying the economy of the united states. Destroying the economy of the united states is simply a by product of Obama's inexperience, total lack of knowledge of the how economies function and throw in heaping spoonfuls of incompetence and lack of intelligence.

[quote]New polls show Americans increasingly have serious doubts about the president's ability to do his job, particularly when it comes to the economy.

• In a poll for The Hill. 66% of Americans now believe chronic high joblessness and slow economic growth are due to bad policy and most — 34% — blame Obama. Just 18% fault George W. Bush, Democrats' preferred villain. By 53-42, voters say Obama has followed the wrong policies and hurt the economy.

• After Obama's insulting remarks, a Rasmussen Poll shows 72% "believe small business owners (are) primarily responsible" for their success. And 57% think entrepreneurs "do more to create jobs and economic growth than big businesses or government."

• Despite Obama's repeated attacks on Mitt Romney's business background, another new poll shows Americans increasingly see Romney as a can-do alternative to a bumbling Obama. By a 63-29% margin, a USA Today-Gallup Poll finds Americans "say Romney's background in business. Would cause him to make good decisions, not bad ones" on the economy.

In short, the ballot-box Teflon may be wearing thin for Obama. We're not surprised.

[url]http://news.investors.com/article/619197/201207231913/obama-shows-vulnerability-on-economic-issues-in-new-polls.htm[/url][/quote]Perhaps American voters are finally waking up.