So what the Fuck are You doing in the DR Sidney.
Exon
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So what the Fuck are You doing in the DR Sidney.
Exon
[QUOTE=Exon123]So what the Fuck are You doing in the DR Sidney.
Exon[/QUOTE][blue]Exon,
There is something very specific about the women of the DR that Sidney likes and can't get here in BA.
If you can get him to post just one photo of just one of his girlfriends, then you'd understand his motivation. Of course, you'd also understand the motivation for the rest of us to stay here.
Thanks,
Jackson[/blue]
[QUOTE=Jack 24]An American expat I met driving cab in BA said apartments in Recoleta were $20,000 after the crash and you can get one now for $70,000-$80,000.[/QUOTE][blue]Hi Jack 24,
I'd have to disagree with your cab driver. I came to BA just a couple of months after the crash specifically looking to buy an apartment, and specifically in Recoleta. (Exon isn't the only forum member who visited Argentina regularly before the devaluation) My assumption at the time, having looked at apartments before the devaluation, was that I would then be able to purchase a 100,000 peso apartment for approximately $33,000 USD. Not.
First, I discovered that all the properties that had been generally advertised and listed in pesos were, in the minds of the owners, actually pesos or dollars, both being equal at the time. However, after the devaluation, the owners quickly changed their stance. I made several offers and talked directly to several owners, and their position was universal, something along the lines of "My property was worth $100,000 dollars before the devaluation, and it's still worth $100,000 dollars now. The value of the peso is irrelevant."
Second, I learned that because very few owners had mortgages to pay on their properties, and thus had little carrying costs, and thus there were very few motivated sellers. For sure, some owners panicked and sold their properties for 80-90% of their pre-devaluation USD value, but most Argentine owners, having survived previous economic meltdowns and also suffering from garden-variety Argentina pride, simply decided that they would wait out the crisis with their property priced at the original pre-devaluation price. Ultimately, they were correct.
As for me, I determined that monthly rents, at an international low of 1/3 of a percent of the value, to be a better deal. Even today I am renting a $100,000 apartment in Recoleta for just 1/2 a percent of it's value per month, and I still think that's the best deal going in BA.
Thanks,
Jackson[/blue]
I found the article in yesterdays clarin about carpincho. It mainly talked about stores lacking the goverment stamp and the illegal hunting of the animal.
I appreciate the heads up. I made sure today that mine was real and it is.
The comment Tomaso made about shotty worksmanship is very true. The leather is great but the production often lacks. In my opinion I think mexico does way better leather work.
The Impossible has just happend, I'm in total agreement with Jackson.
But lets just supose I wanted to throw in the towel here in "Sex Prison" and move to Buenos Aires full time and become an American Porteno.
First I'd rent a place for a year too get my feet on the ground in Argentina.
I'd use that year to check out the whole country, not just B. A.
Assuming I finally decided on Buenos Aires, then I'd look at neighborhoods, Palermo, Belgrano, Vencenite Lopez, Tigre, even Pilar and live at the counrty club in a real American style house. Most Mongers that post have never heard of Pilar, its beautiful and "Classy".
There no way in Fuck I'd live in the Micro Center or Capital Federal proper. The place is just to busy and too congested with too many people for me. Its good for us the the visiting Monger cause the action is their, but not a place to live the day to day life.
Next I'd do just as the wealthy Porteno's do. I'd have my "Faviorata" move into my house, not my apartment. Then I'd set up my regular Mistress in some sort of Studio apartment. For varrity I'd use the internet and private apartments and clubs.
Theres plenty of Pussy in Argentina and all of it is willing to commute for a few extra peso's.
Even still I don't think I'd ever buy in Argentina.
Assets run in cycles in various economies the world over. As an example before 9-11 we had the biggest market bubble in history, after a huge stock market crash. To recover from that the "Fed" dropped real interest rates to the floor in an effort to rejuvenate the econmony. The result was investors saw an almost unlimited supply of cheap money and started using it to buy real estate on the cheap since there were no returns in stocks or bonds. That resulted in the largest appreciation in real estate the American economy has ever seen.
Now the air has gone out of that bubble and both stocks and bonds are back in favor with stocks at an all time high and interest rates rising. And guess what, now real estate is in the "Dog House". The same will happen in Argentina.
Where I'm going with this is why gamble and how much more money are you going to make by taking that gamble on Argentine real estate, using all cash mind you.
Again using the $100,000 figure I can get anyone a sure safe bet of 5%. Thats $5,000 per year to pay rent with. But taking on just a little risk, (a lot less risky than Argentine real estate) I'll get you 7% or 8% , or $7,000 to $8,000 per year for rent. As an example I bought some Calpine "Junk Bonds" that have returned 50% in 18 months. The opportunites are out there but you need capital to excute on them when the time comes. Therefore I don't want capital tied up in assets I can rent for less than the cost of capital, (the cost of capital is roughly 5% today) plus then I have access to the Capital when the right asset comes along to invest in.
I love Argentina, its a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Exon
It's funny how fast the topic quickly changed from " Quality of life in BA ", to " Why not to buy in BA ". I have said this before. We have heard all the pros and cons endlessly. I for one think investing in real estate isn't for everyone. But you can make good returns with real estate. As with everything in life, I think everyone needs to do their own research.
The one thing I would bring up regarding Jackson's remarks is this: I can understand someone like Ex not wanting to invest in BA real estate, since he clearly states he wouldn't want to live here, therefore there would be no point, but for someone who is planning on living here, the only thing I can say is prices will always go up. No matter what, the price of property today will always be higher 5 years from now.
About living in the provinces, I would probably advise against it, I am told the provinces of Buenos Aires are some of the most dangerous parts of all Argentina. Home invasions, car jacking, armed robbery and so on. Though the " country clubs " do offer some safety, the minute you drive out of there you are suseptible to all kinds of car related homicides and robberies. But if you really want to go all Argentine upper crust, spend a kool $20,000 US minimum getting your car kevlar'd up.
Besides, I personally love the convenience of traveling from country to country and only having to worry about a condo as opposed to an entire house I must leave under someone elses care. But hey that's just me.
Good luck,
Bad
[QUOTE=Thomaso276]Business mentality is creepy, special prices for foreigners are always lurking. [/QUOTE]You know, I was watching "West Side Story" tonight, and during one of the scenes it struck me that we're probably not getting any more dinged here as foreigners than the millions of immigrants who arrived in the U. S. over the years got dinged there. Sad, but probably true.
Personally, I don't perceive too much of a double standard in pricing. On the occasions that it does happen, I just try to chalk it up to "the gringo tax" that I'm paying to live here.
[QUOTE=Sidney]''prices will always go up. No matter what, the price of property today will always be higher 5 years from now.'' Gosh, I've heard this many times before! Most remembered is from Japanese investors in our hedge fund in 1990: ''We only buy, we never sell''![/QUOTE][blue]Greetings guys,
Thanks Sid. It needed to be said. However, I actually agree with both you and Bad, and I'll be very blunt about my strategy, which is to accumulate cash and wait until Argentina's next economic crisis to buy a property I want to keep. In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy relatively low rental costs on some very nice properties (the Junin apartment, The Mansion, my new building in Recoleta, etc.) while basking in my cash liquidity.
Thanks,
Jackson[/blue]
[QUOTE=StrayLight]You know, I was watching "West Side Story" tonight, and during one of the scenes it struck me that we're probably not getting any more dinged here as foreigners than the millions of immigrants who arrived in the U. S. Over the years got dinged there. Sad, but probably true.
Personally, I don't perceive too much of a double standard in pricing. On the occasions that it does happen, I just try to chalk it up to "the gringo tax" that I'm paying to live here.[/QUOTE]I agree with your statement and I think it's still happening in the USA, with the immigrants from Cuba, Mexico, and other countries in the world. They have no money but they have labour which after all is money as well.
Anyway, I believe the gringo tax is in fact the "knowledge tax" many argentines pay as well when they buy anything or they need anything as soon as possible.
[QUOTE=Sidney]''prices will always go up. No matter what, the price of property today will always be higher 5 years from now.'' Gosh, I've heard this many times before! Most remembered is from Japanese investors in our hedge fund in 1990: ''We only buy, we never sell''![/QUOTE]It's true that another crisis can hit Argentina, but certanly, no one knows exactly when is that. I understand what Bad said, and matches perfectly with Jackson's statement:
[QUOTE=Jackson]Second, I learned that because very few owners had mortgages to pay on their properties, and thus had little carrying costs, and thus there were very few motivated sellers. For sure, some owners panicked and sold their properties for 80-90% of their pre-devaluation USD value, but most Argentine owners, having survived previous economic meltdowns and also suffering from garden-variety Argentina pride, simply decided that they would wait out the crisis with their property priced at the original pre-devaluation price. Ultimately, they were correct.[/QUOTE]No matter if real estate goes down, it will rise again, and eventually, all real estate in major cities will rise. The difference is: with 100k you are able to buy a nice apartment in BA, a nice city. And it's all yours, you don't have any debt and taxes are minimal. You can buy in NY too, but you must make money every month to pay the mortgage, or you can buy in a tiny small town. And that's just personal choice.
2003, 2004 was good to buy, 2005 decent, 2006 was risky, 2007 is stupid.
If you spend over 100k on a appartment you should have some kind of relation (wife, kid, company, job) to buy otherwise you are flat out stupid.
I guess I can understand what you are saying Jackson and it makes sense to wait for a prime property at a prime price.
I don't think calling people names for making purchases you don't agree with is called for on this forum. But I guess we all find ways to express our own personal discontent.
Good Luck,
Bad
I was there at the depths of the 2002 crisis, I'll be damned if I didn't pass up a chance to buy a place that's much nicer than the Mansion (in Palermo Chico, if memory serves - a little neighborhood on the north side of Libertador that has a lot of diplomatic residences) that was for sale for US$500,000. If it's for sale now, it has surely doubled in price. Of course, the little fact that I didn't have a spare half million dollars in cash laying around also contributed to my decision - very hard to buy places in this country on credit. There were some outstanding possibilities. There will be again.
Jackson's thoughts on this subject are exactly my own - in fact I think we thrashed this subject out between us back during the meltdown and reached the conclusions that he makes here. Jackson, did you ever see that place I was thinking about buying?
Another remark regarding the quality of life in BA it's about the people's mentality. Freedom of speech, as well as openess it's a good thing about Argentina, as you know, having a lover and a bulo is not censored by the society (while you do it with discretion) having multiple girls (again, being discrete) it's ok. No one will call the police and tell them his neighbor has a working girl in his apartment (again, discretely) So BA has chica-boliches inside of their classier neighborhoods like the recoleta in fact Black is crossing the street from the alvear hotel.
BA is a city with a big ratio of love hotels, and that is because people have extra-marital sex (this of course inlcludes singles) BA it's also known for having a huge activity of group sex in the specialized clubs (swinger clubs in BA, but not the same than the wife-swapping american version) also, BA it's a gay friendly city, personally I remark I don't support gays and I just don't like them, but it's important to menction that people is open-minded. Again, with discretion, since I have never seen two (or more) male kissing each other in public on the streets, as I have seen it in South Beach, Miami, which, in my opinion is disgusting. Also, disgusting is seeing those cheap street walkers you see in BA only in the dark night in the worst corners of the uglier barrios. Censorship overlooks a lot of things they wouldn't in other cities in the world.
Non sex-worker woman sexually active are very open in comparision to other south american countries, BUT, they are not as feminist as they are in the northen hemisphere which results in a great blend of personality.
Buenos Aires demonstrated that Male have different and higher sexual neccesities and woman respected. That's quality of life!