Corruption in Argentina

I was debating which thread to post this in. Corruption won. From the Herald. This is filed under the "You Think?" category; especially the last comment.

Duhalde: 'I regret backing Kirchner'

Former president Eduardo Duhalde said he regrets having supported former president Néstor Kirchner and harshly criticized the administration of President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, in an interview published yesterday by La Nación newspaper.

Duhalde said he regretted having sponsored Kirchner's presidential candidacy back in 2003 and added that Kirchner was the one "who disappointed him the most."

"Some people change with power," he commented. Duhalde said that "everything was fine until Kirchner decided to be the economy minister."

"There's practically nothing good," he replied when asked what he thought about the President's administration, and said, as he had done earlier this year, that presenting her as presidential candidate was "a historic mistake" by Kirchner.

"It's a government that does not think strategically," Duhalde said.

[QUOTE=Spirit Rider]The RNP was against the project.[/QUOTE]Hi Spirit Rider,

What's the "RNP", and why would they or anybody else have been against the project.

Thanks,

Jackson

Jackson,

RNP is Registro Nacional de la Personas; it is the government agency that is in charge of issuing DNI to both Argentines and foreigners. The reason they were against the project is because a digitized DNI would have streamlined the process and eliminated jobs, as it takes many less employees to enter data into a computer and print it out on a PVC card than to go through the long tenuous current DNI process, which involves manually attaching the photo with glue and handwriting all the applicants information in the DNI. All the information, photos, etc have to be certified with a manually placed stamp, all by several people who just sit around waiting to put that stamp in. Also, if any changed need to be made to your data or residency updates, you must again go and wait around for the RNP to manually write in the changes and then go by and have the guy sitting around with the stamp certify the new / updated info. The digitized DNI would have eliminated all these people sitting around, and thus jobs.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

While I agree that the corruption here is overwhelming, let's not forget that it hits us in the USA as well. They difference is it is not as organized and when it is discovered someone gets jailed or at least charged. Can you say Governor Bulgdonovichski or whatever his name is? How about those LAPD cops charged for protecting rap groups several years ago, or NYPD cops working with drug dealers? Or some local hometown newspaper uncovering payoffs to building inspectors.

I think the biggest difference is that here EVERYONE associated with some approval or licensing authority can be bribed, while in the States you have to find that one person or small group who is available. For example try and pay off the next cop who stops you for a traffic violation in the States vs. Here. Which one do you think will be adding charges and taking you to jail? Same with customs or inspectors. You might have limited success in the USA, you have a 99% chance of success here.

One good bribe here is you can bribe chicas for sex!

[QUOTE=Rock Harders]Jackson,

RNP is Registro Nacional de la Personas; it is the government agency that is in charge of issuing DNI to both Argentines and foreigners. The reason they were against the project is because a digitized DNI would have streamlined the process and eliminated jobs, as it takes many less employees to enter data into a computer and print it out on a PVC card than to go through the long tenuous current DNI process, which involves manually attaching the photo with glue and handwriting all the applicants information in the DNI. All the information, photos, etc have to be certified with a manually placed stamp, all by several people who just sit around waiting to put that stamp in. Also, if any changed need to be made to your data or residency updates, you must again go and wait around for the RNP to manually write in the changes and then go by and have the guy sitting around with the stamp certify the new / updated info. The digitized DNI would have eliminated all these people sitting around, and thus jobs.

Suerte,

Rock Harders[/QUOTE]Thanks Rock, and [I]of course[/i] it had to do with protecting jobs.

I'm surprised that there aren't government-subsidized companies in Argentina still manufacturing buggy whips.

J

[QUOTE=Jackson]Thanks Rock, and [I]of course[/i] it had to do with protecting jobs.

I'm surprised that there aren't government-subsidized companies in Argentina still manufacturing buggy whips.

J[/QUOTE]Sheesh read your own forum, look in the BDSM thread!

[QUOTE=Thomaso276]While I agree that the corruption here is overwhelming, let's not forget that it hits us in the USA as well. They difference is it is not as organized and when it is discovered someone gets jailed or at least charged. Can you say Governor Bulgdonovichski or whatever his name is? How about those LAPD cops charged for protecting rap groups several years ago, or NYPD cops working with drug dealers? Or some local hometown newspaper uncovering payoffs to building inspectors.

I think the biggest difference is that here EVERYONE associated with some approval or licensing authority can be bribed, while in the States you have to find that one person or small group who is available. For example try and pay off the next cop who stops you for a traffic violation in the States vs. Here. Which one do you think will be adding charges and taking you to jail? Same with customs or inspectors. You might have limited success in the USA, you have a 99% chance of success here.

One good bribe here is you can bribe chicas for sex![/QUOTE]Sure there is corruption in the USA as well as in most countries. Where I think you are wrong is in that you fail to understand that the political class here aspire to political power just so they can be bribed. It is a gigantic confidence trick played against the Argentine citizens who genuinely think the politicians are trying to change things for the better. If they change anything it is purely to enrich their own pockets. The pollies on the other hand do not have any humanity for their constituents. They are there just for the bribes and if they have to spin a bit about social justice and how bad other countries treat Argentina, they can do it with apparent conviction and with style. Just follow the trail on the Siemens affair and you will see that each successive administration took bribes at the Presidential level. No exceptions and that officials and functionaries lower down the food chain also had their snouts in the trough. These projects are created to develope a pipeline to feed the bribes to those in the foodchain. In the States, the small amount of government corruption is opportunist and severely punished in a social and economic sense. The only one of the Argentine Presidents in trouble with the law is Menem and that is related to illegal arms trading and the bribes he took there. Nothing is being done about the admissions Siemens has coughed up.

When you see perfectly good streets and curbing being replaced, you wonder about such politicians that can sanction such blatantly contrived contracts but continue to do nothing about the more than 200 children a month that die of malnutricion according to the World Health Organisation. They have no doubt about their priorities. It's get as much money as you can as quick as you can.

Argento

No, I understand about the politics here. My first year it was explained to me that although everyone likes to complain about corrupt innefficient gov't, they all aspire to get in on it. It goes back to how Spain treated the Americas, steal everything and ship it overseas, get your family positions of power and after a few years, get thrown out by the King for stealing, usually ratted out by the jealous guy who wants his cut. Of course, your family is still stealing and the next guy in charge does the same thing.

I was also advised that a person who hold political office as a result of being elected has some sort of immunity from criminal charges (maybe past charges, I am not sure) until they leave office. I recall reading something about this and was confused, but I think there are some immunity issues.

Gotta go, gonna start my campaign for city council in the neighborhood!

Rock was 100% correct that it was about protecting jobs. However, extrapolate that to what it really means, POWER. When you have jobs to hand out you have patronage to control and ghost employees to put on the payroll and budgets to use to extract bribes from suppliers, etc.

Carrió accuses former president and other officials of irregularities.

Prosecutor targets K in graft probe.

Elisa Carrió, head of the coalition, sued officials and Kirchnerite businessmen over alleged irregularities in the construction of public works, housing programmes, oil exploitation contracts, gambling and transport.

Information in the case that would link Kirchner to the alleged corruption cases has reportedly been presented to the court by Carrió, following investigations conducted by lawmakers of the ARI (a centre-left party formerly led by Carrió) and the Civic Coalition.

After the judge's decision was announced, Carrió praised the actions of the judiciary and said "there is no other destination than jail for Kirchner.

"This is the best Christmas gift I ever received, the opening of the case means that the prosecutor has ordered to investigate into the accusations against Kirchner and his group" said Carrió during a radio interview.

Federal Judge Julián Ercolini yesterday formally accepted a request from prosecutor Gerardo Pollicita to start a probe into the actions of the alleged criminal organization formed by Kirchner, Planning Minister Julio De Vido, Transport Secretary Ricardo Jaime, Claudio Uberti (former head of the Occovi road watchdog.

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Looks like a scandle is on its way, the above is from todays Buenos Aires Hearld

Exom

These investigations go on all the time and rarely result in anything of importance. Like the military junta guys being in jail 30 years after their crimes!

Read this Ass Kisser from the BA Herald's "Your View" section. My guess is he will get some kind of appointment from CFK. I'm not sure what "Daub-and-Wattle" means, but I have a pretty good grasp on the term "Miracle". Wherever he is from in Europe must be hell. Or someplace where words matter more than results.

Also, CFK in "lacy panties" gives me chills.

[quote=Buenos Aires Herald]IN PRAISE OF THE KIRCHNERS.

As a part-time resident here, fleeing northern European winters annually, I describe Argentina's economic "miracle"to UK friends as a daub-and-wattle job.

Nevertheless, I do not hide my admiration for the Kirchners, in view of the difficult task facing anyone trying to run this country.

To have to harness a disparate assortment of latter-day Peronists, many of whom are not sure they are Peronists, with a few hundred bully boys (los gremios trade unionists) who need appeasing on a daily basis, is a huge task. But they are bright people.

Not Ivy League "smartie pants" clever. More down at the bottom, wooing on the streets, "lacy panties" style.

Comparing the incumbents of the Casa Rosada these past 20 years, the Kirchners may get a good history.

David Davis[/quote]

[QUOTE=QuakHunter]Read this Ass Kisser from the BA Herald's "Your View" section. My guess is he will get some kind of appointment from CFK. I'm not sure what "Daub-and-Wattle" means, but I have a pretty good grasp on the term "Miracle". Wherever he is from in Europe must be hell. Or someplace where words matter more than results.

Also, CFK in "lacy panties" gives me chills.[/QUOTE]This is a fairly accurate description of the Kirschners. How history will view them depends on how long they keep their phony / baloney con operation in power. They will not be judged by how they fundamentaly changed the train wreck known as Argentina.

The Kirschners have refused to make any fundamental changes to the economic Frankenstein known as Peronism.

They have kept themselves in power with mirrors, whistles, rubberbands and chewing gum. This worked because of increasing commodity prices that occurred during most of their administration.

The Kirschners are history. The peso will continue to devalue. Productivity and economic production will decrease. There will be blood in the streets.

How the Kirschners expected a different result without fundamentally changing the economy is beyond me.

But at the end of the day the Kirschners will be sipping Bloody Marys in a foreign country, basking in the sun, with big smiles. They will have had some 8 years (my estimate as to when their administration succumbs to riots in the streets) to rob the country blind and enrich themselves.

The Kirschners are not a new breed of politician. They are Mennon and every previous corrupt Argentine administration reborn.