Buenos Aires - 2002 Reports

Gentlemen,

this is my first post to the board, and I first want to thank Jackson, Saint, Otto, MCSE, and all of you frequent posters for all the valuable information that you so generously shared. It made my 15-day trip to BA many times better.

As about myself, I've been into mongering for the past 25 years, and had a try to 13 countries over 5 continents. As a frequent business traveller, I always try to discover the specifics of the hobby scene of any new country I'm travelling to.

This trip was carefully prepared. I took 3 months of intensive spanish classes, thus adding a 6th language to the 5 I already speak at various fluency levels. I think this is a must if you want to skip the more touristy experiences and dig valuable info while you are onsite. I also read a number of books about Argentina, including one of the first reports on the hobby scene there. This is "The path to Buenos Aires" by Albert Londres, a world famous reporter in the 20's. (re-published in 1998), who describes in some detail the BA world of brothels at the time. I also studied extensively all the posts on this site, the web sites, and... a map of the city.

Following my general strategy to "blend-in' as much as possible, I decided to rent an apartment there, not in the obvious Recoleta, but in Palermo, which seems to be (upper) middle-class neighborhood. The apartment was found through ByT Argentina website (Mariana speaks perfect English and French), at a weeky rate of 200 USD. It was in perfect condition, clean, comfortable, and conveniently located. Renting an apartment offers, i my view, the aditional advantage of discretion, which the kind of lady I'm after generally seem to appreciate, avoiding the embarrassment of checking in at the hotel front desk, etc.

Just to be sure I wouldn't miss anything, I started by a quick review of the top bars scene, beginning by Playwomen (why do most posters stick to the erroneous "Playwoman" spelling?), the Recoleta Affaire, Sodoma, and the like (skipping Black's, which I was sure was a waste of time). Much as I anticipated, none of these places was to my liking, the girls being, in my humble opinion, much too old (late 20's, early 30's) and professional looking.

The street scene being a bit too adventurous for a first-timer, I decided to concentrate my research on what I call the "middle-market", which, for the sake of definitions, shall be deemed to cover: i) bars in Palermo and Belgrano (including the Puyrredon Affaire, the Pampa Nuevo Estilo Boliche); ii) the websites and iii) the "classificados" in Clarin and La Nacion.

My main finding can be summarized as follows: the middle-market apparently consists of two distinct niches: the first one is the bar scene, the second being the "departamientos". However, both might ultimately be under control of the same people, my source of info being the girls themselves.

The bars, as in Recoleta and Cento, ask for a small entrance fee (15 to 20 pesos, which include a drink); the choice varies with time and places, but is generally among 10 to 20 girls, generally in the 7-8 range. Prices are fixed (80 to 120 pesos an hour, and the scheme is described to you by the bartender or the "encargada", i.e. the supervisor of the place). There is generally a higher proportion than elsewhere of foreign (i.e. Brazilian, Paraguayan, Cuban and Dominican) girls, as well as Argentinian girls from the provinces (Misiones). They appear to be a bit more relaxed and less professional than in Recoleta, possibly due to shorter exposure to big city stress. However, they are under strict control of the management, with strong "contractual" pressure to generate revenue. The money you give them is remitted to the "encargada", and they generally receive only 50% of it. These girls do not end up there by mere chance. There ARE import-export arrangements to bring them there; a Cuban girl explained how the (real) owner of the place (name witheld for obvious reasons) arranged for an official invitation to Cuban administration to get her out of Santiago de Cuba, short of which invitation she couldn't have left the country. This shows, if anything, that the schemes described by Albert Londres some 60 years ago (whereby the French mob exported prostitutes to BA) still exist, albeit with different characteristics.

The Departamientos. Now you may think that the girls on Platynum are, as the site claims, "independent escorts". Of course I didn't check all the girls there, and my conclusions rely on random sampling. I leave it to our independent community of research minded mongers to confirm more thoroughly my tests. What I can state by first hand experience is that at least a substantial proportion of the girls there work in "Departamientos".
The "Departamiento" (which in plain words is nothing else than a small-scale brothel) is an appartment (the well famed 2254 French Street being one of many) where various shifts of 2 to 4 girls work; generally, an older lady serves as attendant, answering the phone and keeping track of each girl's business. She reports to an "encargada" who supervises several "deartamientos". The main task of the encargada is to collect money from the girls (the girls I hooked up with consistently reported they had to pay a 50% cut out of the price agreed upon over the phone). A girl will be fired if she has less than 1 or 2 sessions a week over a period of 2 weeks. The money collected by the "encargada" is paid to the "dueño" (owner) of the Departamiento. Now, this person never appears as the legal owners of the place, who seem to be men of straw.
What precedes explains why the girls in Platynum and the Clarin classified are the same as those in the Departamientos. The owners are well organized pimps that use every available advertising media to promote their business. To be fair, this certainly justifies part of the 50% cut on the girls' fees.
I was told by 2 independent sources that many of the Belgrano's Departamientos are owned by the same family (4 brothers).
The worst remains to be said: a girl is NOT totally free to leave. If she wants to avoid serious problems (and, remember, many of them have kids), they only get to leave by finding someone to replace them; and the replacing girl should display, prima facie, the same revenue generating capabilities as the would be leaver.
This was confirmed independently, although with some variation in the details, by 3 different girls I met in 3 different Departamientos.

I'm not sure this post is as entertaining as many others on this board. I'm not sure either which conclusions we should draw from the above. I can only say it came to me as a shock when I realized half the money I had so happily given to some of the sweet girls I met did not end up in their pockets, but in those of... you name it.

Mohctep (Monster in Russian?):

To me, it's easy: Argentina has better girls, more ratio of stunners and I feel literally at home.

Hope this helps,

Andres

Don Jose

Thanks for your input. It is good to get confirming information on what others have posted. This information is important to have for several reasons.

From reading your post I'll venture to say that you seem to prefer your companions in the highschool senior to college junior range.;>) If so, then, did you find these type of women in the Clarin Classifieds and, or, the Palermo bars?


Congratulations on doing your homework. I am impressed.

ferolga777

Apstar,
I was in BA last June and had a great time (I am an Asian) - So stop worrying and pack your bags. I will be in BA for Thanksgiving (A ton of guys are going there). If you are staying at Etoile say hello to me and I will buy the first beer!

Never been to Argentina myself but I am interested in learning a bit about the place for a visit. Does anyone know of any websites that have information on the sex scene there. I could just unload a bunch of questions here such as....Are there localized areas where the action is concentrated such as in Amsterdam and Thailand?....Is the scene predominantly escorts, massage, streetwalkers, brothels or clubs?...or a mix? Are the services
available pretty much open to anything? Any help to get me pointed in the right direction would be appreciated.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don José

[i]The Departamientos. Now you may think that the girls on Platynum are, as the site claims, "independent escorts". Of course I didn't check all the girls there, and my conclusions rely on random sampling. I leave it to our independent community of research minded mongers to confirm more thoroughly my tests. What I can state by first hand experience is that at least a substantial proportion of the girls there work in "Departamientos".[/i][/quote]
Don Jose,

Thanks for the good post and insight.

By "Independent Escorts," the owners of Platynum mean that they are just a hosting service for the girls photos and personal information. They are not an escort service per se, and the girls are free to do what they want with their time as far as Platynum is concerned.

The owners have confirmed to me that about 85% of the girls on Platynum have managers, which may fall into the area that you described in your post. If you want 100% accuracy, and total independence, stick with [url]www.escorts-argentina.com.[/url] This is own by the same people as Platynum, but the photos are accurate and the girls are completely independent. That is a pre-requisite for being on the site of [url]www.escorts-argentina.com.[/url]

Moondog

Moondog.

I understand your point about what "independent" means on the Platynum website. I figured it out, too; it is a standard disclaimer for the owners of the site not to be considered as sharing into the revenues of a working girl, which most likely would be legally considered a criminal offence under argentinian law, which I'm told prohibits prostitution. However, as your source informed you, most of the girls have "managers".

Now, I would like to qualify your statement about girls on escort-argentina being "independent". For one thing, I met a girl from this site (her picture has since then been removed) who works in a departamiento. Hence your statement may not be 100% correct.
But the main point is that even those girls who claim to be "independent" (and who are, to the extent they don't have a "manager") all have to arrange for regular payments to the police in order to avoid trouble. Now this seems to me to be an economic arrangement between various classes of pimps (private vs public), rather than anything else. To this extent, there is nothing as an "independent" escort in BA, but various shades of dependency.

Ferolga 777

Yes, I rather go for the fresh and young thing. But attitude is more important than age to me. What turns me off is the professional attitude. I like to befriend my girls, treat them as a person, and receive similar treatment from them. I think getting this type of relationship requires openness on both sides, a lot of respect, and some sense of humor. The hardened pros won't provide it, but then almost everybody else will, with some time and patience. Some of the girls I was with ended up explaining the economics behind the scene, showing pictures of their kids, singing songs to me, etc. It's a matter of confidence. I don't overpay them, and never pay in advance, but always give more than their asking price, if I think its right. I always make small gifts, like perfume, or books (after knowing the tastes of the lady, of course), or flowers... I want to be seen as a giver by them, and they almost invariably reciprocate...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don José
[i]I don't overpay them, and never pay in advance, but always give more than their asking price, if I think its right. I always make small gifts, like perfume, or books (after knowing the tastes of the lady, of course), or flowers... I want to be seen as a giver by them, and they almost invariably reciprocate... [/i][/QUOTE][blue]My philosophy exactly, and I couldn't have said it better myself!

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

Ditto, it even surprises me sometimes how the little gifts, kind words, and treating them all like ladies improve the quality of the sessions I've had. I've even had some refuse payment after an extended session, and believe me I'm no movie star in the looks department. I think even working girls, maybe them especially, want to feel special and be pampered.

EZE :)

Don Jose,

RE: Escorts-argentina.com. I think the operative phrase from your comments would be "her picture has since been removed." Adriana tries to maintain a site free of chicas with managers. She will remove a girl who does not tell the truth about her status as a true independent. So, while mistakes may happen from time to time, Adriana will correct such mistakes as quickly a possible.

Hello, folks.
Upcoming will be my second visit to BsAs, and I've been scouring the websites and boards for a list of women to call. I have not, though, seen any mention of the area-vip.com site. Has anyone had any experiences with these women? By and large, they seem to be more attractive/polished than those on platynum or escorts-argentina, but some of that may be due to the consistency of the photography....

Also, when I was there last, about two years ago, I tried only one internet girl. On my first day, I called a girl who had been pictured on several sites. When she arrived, it was not immediately clear to me if she was, indeed, the same person I thought I was getting. She was, though, beautiful, but MUCH older than the pictures suggested - that's why she COULD have been that person, but long ago. I believe she may have been in her mid to late thirties, although the pictures showed someone in the prime twenties. Needless to say, I was not happy with the experience, and I became hesitant to take such a risk again. I know I could have sent her away, but as it was my first time doing anything like that, and she was quite sweet, and probably was the same person.... well, I gutted it out.

So. The girls you've been calling from the various sites - are they often not what you expected? Age is a factor for me, as I'm used to Rio, where the girls are almost invariably 18-22 years old. I know the girls in BsAs are more 'mature,' but that wasn't a problem for me last time. I did have a great time in Playwomen and Black, usually with girls 22-26, so I'm not setting any limits, but I'd like to be assured that what I think I'm 'ordering' online is what will show up at my door.

Thanks for your responses.
AB

Saint,
Thank you for that offer, an e-mail is on its way even as we speak. I would very much enjoy meeting you along with other like-minded individuals in person in BA. I think it's terrific idea to get together in BA so you can certainly count me in. As a matter of fact, I've partaken in quite a few similar type of gatherings as the one you proposed in Rio de Janeiro and they have all been trip-enhancing experiences. In fact, the friend who will join me in BA will be leaving for Rio de Janeiro on 11/7 to join a bunch of hobbyists from another board and then fly to BA from Rio. I am sure he is going to have a great time considering he is going to spend more than 3 weeks in Rio and Buenos Aires with some of the finest looking women in the world!! If we get together I am sure he is gonna have some good Brazilian tales to tell not to mention some pictures of the garotas!! As you are of the resident experts on this board, I want to ask you what your opinion is regarding hotel vs apartment in BA. I've always rented an apartment in Rio because it allows me more freedom than the hotels and I am wondering whether this applys in BA as well?

Maddur,
I would certainly look you up if I stay at Etoile, but if you like to get together in BA regardless, shoot me an e-mail and we will figure a way to meet. I am arriving on Tuesday 11/26 and leaving Sunday 12/1.

since it seems the secret is out on giving gifts... i'll offer a tip:

there is a small "market", like a flee market type thing (small tables/booths with arts/crafts stuff) right out from the etoile - just walk west a blk down quintana, next to the cemetary, infront of the what is it ...a community center?. this is a great place to obtain little, inexpensive gifts for giving to the girls, things like jewelry, candles, etc.

I think this forum is very good. However, i really disagree with all the posts about paying too much. I especially dislike that somehow anyone who goes into Blacks and takes a girl home is an idiot. For some of us, Money is not the issue. Sorry if some of choose to pay more that what you think is right. AS for Blacks, regardless of the posts stating otherwise, as of 2 weeks ago, the chicas at Blacks were by far superior in quanitity then any other place i went to. Yes, Black's is expensive compared to the other places. That doesnt mean you shouldnt check it out for yourself. And remember, money isnt everything.

[blue]RB1,

With all due respect, you're wrong. I live down the street from Blacks, and I make the circuit through the clubs, bars and other venues every night, so I know the situation first hand. If you believe that "chicas at Blacks were by far superior in quanitity then any other place i went to", it only tells me that you just don't know where else to go.

As for your stated desire that "money isn't everything" and that you like "choose to pay more", please stay in the USA where you can pay hundreds of dollars.

On second thought, from the tone of your posting, my guess is that you are somehow associated with Blacks and you've decided to use this forum to post disinformation to counter the dissapointing reviews Blacks has received from numerous experienced travelers. Don't worry, Blacks will always stay in business catering to foreign business visitors on expense accounts who are too timid to venture outside Black's safety perimeter to find the real Argentina.

Jackson[/blue]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adam Bomb
[i]Hello, folks.
Upcoming will be my second visit to BsAs, and I've been scouring the websites and boards for a list of women to call. I have not, though, seen any mention of the area-vip.com site. Has anyone had any experiences with these women? By and large, they seem to be more attractive/polished than those on platynum or escorts-argentina, but some of that may be due to the consistency of the photography....[/i][/quote]
AB,

Area-Vip photos are air brushed so that the girls look better than in real life. Take a look at Indiana's photos on [url]www.area-vip.com.ar[/url] and compare them to Bunny's photos on [url]www.escorts-argentina.com.[/url] Same girl.

Moondog

With all due respect, Jackson, I believe the comments about Black were valid, regardless of the accusation of rb1's association with the place.

I've only been to BsAs once, but I did go to almost all of the establishments discussed here, or whatever was in existence two years ago. I found that, for my tastes (my standards are unreasonably high), Black and Playwomen were head-and-shoulders above the other clubs with regard to "quality/attractiveness" of the women. The dollar wasn't worth what it is now, and i still felt compelled to spend the money at those two places, rather than "compromise" with the women i found in the other places.

But, regardless. There's a place for clubs at all price ranges. It's ludicrous for anyone to be labeled an idiot for choosing to spend a bit more to get what one wants. It's not as if anyone's driving the prices up at the other places, as Black just has its own individual structure, and is rather independent of everything else. It's kind of like the large, vocal group of travelers who despise Centaurus in Rio, because it's so much more expensive than the other termas. But, for those who's tastes are satisfied by Centaurus, the price is justified. I know that there have been countless times where I have left other termas, not finding what I wanted. But, with Centaurus, there are invariably many women for me. That is worth the cost, in my opinion. I don't travel so far, and only four or so times per year, in order to pinch pennies. That doesn't make me extravagant or ignorant. But, if I'm paying, I will pay for what I want, with as few compromises as possible.

Similarly, there are many who don't find that the "quality" at Centaurus is any greater than in the other termas. Personally, I can take great issue with what passes for 'taste' in those people, but that's another thread.... But, the whole point is that if the consumer perceives a qualitative difference, then There IS One, whether or not that perception is commonly shared. Then, it's up to that consumer to decide if the cost is too high or not.

I do, of course, agree that no one should be overpaying based on what is the common price structure - but that must be seen in a context. Black is entitled to it's pricing, just as the streetwalker is entitled to another. They aren't the same thing, even though many people will say "pussy is pussy."

And, no, I have no association with any of the places discussed.

[blue]Adam Bomb,

I appreciate your position, and I agree with your observations about Centaurus, having been there a few times myself. However, let me clairify a couple of points about Blacks.

First, there isn't anything about Blacks per se that's expensive. They charge the same entry fee and have approximately the same drink prices as many of the Recoleta establishments. In addition, I've never received anything less than polite and courteous service on every one of the many ocassions that I've been there.

Second, Blacks doesn't establish the prices that the chicas try to charge. The chicas, as in most (I hesitate to say all) clubs, are independent and may choose who they may or may not leave with, and what they may agree to charge, all without involvement by the club.

Third, the chicas in BsAs aren't bound to work only one club, and in fact I've seen many chicas in Blacks also in other clubs, the discos and other establishments. For example, it's not uncommon to find the same girl working the early evening "shift" at Cafe Orleans, then later at Blacks or another club. It's common practice for the girls to work different clubs depending on what club is hot and where the action is at any given time.

Fourth, the chica's price will differ depending upon the venue she is in at the moment, my point being that if they're in Blacks with their tenacles around a foreigner, they will try to get two or three times their regular rate, but only because they're in Blacks.

Fifth, the biggest thing that turns me off about Blacks is the fact that simply because I'm a Norte Americano in Blacks, the same girl that would reaidly accept 200 pesos elsewhere, wants to play me for an idiot by asking for $300 USD. Attitude does count, and it's pretty hard to be "man and woman" if they're playing the "stupid foreigner and smart chica" game.

As I've said before, it's not about the price, it's about respect. The object isn't to pay the cheapest price, but to pay a fair price, all while maintaining your status as the man. Don't forget, this is Latin America, not North America.

Sincerely,

Jackson[/blue]

Thanks, Moondog.

Yes, I'm aware of the potential of airbrushing, as I've done a fair bit of it myself. But, I think actually that the images on area-vip are at least as 'honest' as those on the other sites. I just think it's 'good' photography/lighting/makeup that "helps" these girls. There is a lot of Photoshopping done on Platynum and escorts-argentina, too.

Have you called anyone from area-vip? I find it odd that these women are not being discussed, as the 'agency' seems to be on a different level as far as "representation" goes. Is it that they're perceived as being too expensive? Are they new?

Thanks for any further comment.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adam Bomb

Have you called anyone from area-vip? I find it odd that these women are not being discussed, as the 'agency' seems to be on a different level as far as "representation" goes. Is it that they're perceived as being too expensive? Are they new?

Thanks for any further comment. [/i][/QUOTE]

AB,


I know two of the girls, Karina, and Indiana. They are both very nice. You will find most of the girls repeated, sometimes with different names, on almost every website in BA.

Pick one and go have fun.

Moondog

[quote]Originally posted by Don José
[i]I don't overpay them, and never pay in advance, but always give more than their asking price, if I think its right. I always make small gifts, like perfume, or books (after knowing the tastes of the lady, of course), or flowers... I want to be seen as a giver by them, and they almost invariably reciprocate...


[blue]My philosophy exactly, and I couldn't have said it better myself!

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue] [/i][/QUOTE]
Finally Jackson and I are on the same page. :) All good points.

Moondog

Adam Bomb,

There ARE some cuties on Area-vip.com.ar. I've seen several girls from that site. Some are still on it, some have left and some come and go. Yeah, like all these guys are saying the photos are airbrushed. All of the girls bodies though were almost exactly as pictured on the website. The only thing I noticed is that most of their faces aren't nearly as good as on the site. Case in point, one of the girls I saw is dressed up in all this sexy outfits, her make up is done perfectly, her hair is great. When she came to my hotel, she was wearing a ratty pair of jeans, a white shirt, no make up, her hair was a mess. Don't get me wrong... I still had a great GFE session but just don't expect the exact same girl pictured on that site. Keep an open mind.

I also noticed it was more difficult to reach the girls on Area-Vip's website. My last trip in September many didn't answer their phones, many were "out of the country", or some changed their phone numbers. It is still a website worth considering though. There are a few hotties on that site.

Apstar,

Thanks for the nice words but I'm NO expert on BA. Yeah, I love the city but there are plenty of guys on the board that know the city better than I do. I would suggest an apartment hotel like Art Suites or Design Suites if you're only there a few days. But if you're there a week or longer you may want to consider an apartment. I am in contact with several people that have offered good rates. I have yet to see the apartments in person but they seem to be in a nice area. One is described as, "Luxury building with marble and glass entrance; the ground floor hosts an Art Gallery, Two elevators, two apartments per floor". The prices are very good at around $125 US week!!! (Please don't ask me about the info until I get a chance to look at it).


I'm going at the end of November and also in December for a few weeks where I hope to learn more about renting an apartment or apartment(S).

Remember that we can all agree to disagree with one another. It's good that people are being civil about it. Everyone should give their honest opinions on things. Personally I think Adam Bomb posted a very good post. I'm one of those guys that does think Black's has ridiculously high prices for some girls but you know what? FREE WILL baby! Nothing forces you to pay her asking price and you can always walk out. In fact, I did that more times than not but please note that I had a great time in there hanging with my amigos and looking at the eye candy.

I'm NOT against paying more for a girl that I really want. I do set limits. Anyone that has read my old posts can see that I'd rather go find someone else if a girl isn't being reasonable. At Black's you gotta work harder. It IS possible to score with a Black's chick for not an outrageous price but it helps if your Spanish is at least decent. I took home an "older Brittany Spears" look alike from Black's my first trip. I think I paid 250 pesos for a short time 2 hours visit. At first she wanted $200 US! I just worked her a little and her price came down. I've said it before and I'll say it again....the place is hit or miss. One night you could go and 30 hotties. The next night it could be 3 hotties.

Like Jackson said...there are many better places to go but I don't think you should purposely avoid it. Go in and check it out. Have a drink with your cover coupon. If you don't like it then leave. No big deal.

I wouldn't call anyone an "idiot" necessarily for paying too much. Some guys pay too much out of sheer ignorance, some are temporarily in "love", and some are so freaking wealthy that they don't have anything in their wallets less than US $100 bills. Everything is relative in life. I think what everyone is trying to say is that it often times is not necessary. Think of it like this (I always like analogies). It's like a guy that walks into a BMW dealership. He knows what he wants, he is ready to buy. He already has his checkbook and is determined to buy. But the guy doesn't even bother to look at the sticker on the window, find out what the MSRP is on the car, other options, etc. He just tells the salesman that he will "take it"!

I think that is a perfect example. Yeah, even if you have the money to do that it's just plain silly. EVERYONE is willing to deal a little bit in this economy. Negotiating doesn't make you a cheapskate. Only BEING a cheapskate makes you a cheapskate. If you find the one you've been looking for and you must see her...see her. If you have to pay a little more so be it but at least try to negotiate.

I'm not like Jackson in that he cares if the chicas respect him. I could care less if the chicas respect me. I only care that I get good sex. Ha, ha.

Good luck amigos. Life is good.

Hey guys. I just got off the phone with a chica from Buenos Aires. She called me in a panic asking me about "the internet". I guess one dude named "Eric" emailed her and told her that he saw all these pictures of her on an internet site. She barely knows the dude but he had her email address and he probably thought he could score a better session with her the next time he is in Buenos Aires.

Guys do NOT be stupid!!!! NEVER tell the girls about these sites. NEVER tell the girls you read about them, saw their pictures, etc. You are NOT helping any of us by doing this. You are NOT scoring any points with them. I'm probably gonna stop posting names of girls I see because of morons like this "Eric" dude.

So now not only is this girl freaked out but she is telling all her friends that work in the clubs NOT to let guys take ANY pictures of them because they will end up on the internet. Guys, have some loyalty to your fellow 'brothers'. I've made tons of friends with the girls of the clubs but I never tell them about what I read about them or pictures I see.

Use your brains.

What an unbelievably stupid thing to do. There were already enough girls that shied away from the camera. This will make me think twice about posting any pictures in the future.

EZE :(

Jackson, obviously you have had some problem with Blacks in the past. accusations such as the one you made show not only how ignorant you are, but how shallow your mind is. Just because I disagree with you, doesnt mean you have the right to insult me. I know more about Argentina than you ever will. I will come and go as i please. and i will pay whatever price i think is fair.

Your comments about how Argentine women respect you more if you negotiate is laughable. If you are looking for respect from an escort, maybe you should reevaluate your life.

? on web sites. Some look definitely fake. If I don't see any of the women, like Indiana, who are on numerous sites, I get very suspicious. Some sites have a lot of the regulars, but I still have my doubts. Has anyone used the services of a woman, where she was one of two women on the same site that had the same telephone number? In this case the site is attencion digital.

RB1. I don't know if you are aware of the fact, but this is Jackson's website. He could remove your posts if he so chose, but he has left them up. That is not the action of an ignorant person with a shallow mind. Jackson did not post that paying more than the market rate makes you an idiot, but that the women would perceive you as a sucker (idiot.) In addition, several others have posted similar experiences about Blacks. I noticed that some who had wonderful trips, had their worst experiences at Blacks. They didn't specifically mention it, but it was clear in their descriptions of the sessions with the women.

Most of us are looking for a gfe. Some mutual respect is necessary for that to happen. If you cannot see that these women are also human beings, deserving of the same respect as any other person, it is you who has problems.

i really dont care if this is his website or not. if he chooses to remove me so be it. I didnt state anything other than what i believe and what i experienced. Isnt that what a forum is for?

Where in my posts have i disrespected the women? please enlighten me.


you can choose to believe I am an idiot for going to blacks. thats your choice and jackson's as well. dont insult me for it and certainly dont make up lies about my intentions.

I will say one last thing. You gentleman have no idea how lucky you are to be able to get what you are getting for the prices you are paying. Believe me it wont last forever. Many of the girls know how much they can make in the US, Mexico, Europe etc etc.

Peace

[blue]I was all set to apoligize to RB1 for calling him an idiot, because it's never been my intention to personally insult any fellow member of this forum, but in reviewing my responses to his posts I couldn't find the word used even once.

I continue to maintain my opinion that Blacks is a tourist trap. No, I've never had a bad experinece there, largely because the chicas's attitudes have turned me off so many times that I've never been motivated to pull one out of the place.

RB1's last two posts add nothing in the way of practical information to the forum. Therefor, after a week or so in which everyone may read them, I will delete them.

Jackson[/blue]

jackson, maybe i read it wrong but here it is:

your words:

"Fifth, the biggest thing that turns me off about Blacks is the fact that simply because I'm a Norte Americano in Blacks, the same girl that would reaidly accept 200 pesos elsewhere, wants to play me for an idiot by asking for $300 USD. Attitude does count, and it's pretty hard to be "man and woman" if they're playing the "stupid foreigner and smart chica" game.

Here is some info for those who may be interested. the chicas at blacks were asking 150-200 dollars. i negotiated to paid 150 dollars for an all nite on 2 seperate occasions. is that too much? for me its a gift. another night i went to playwoman and paid 200 pesos for an all niter. you know what? price had nothing to do with the service i received. its all about how you click with the girl.

At blacks, the girls will not approach you, i like that. at playwoman and at solid gold, they are all over you the minute you walk in the door. i dont like that.

peace and hopefully no hard feelings.

[blue]The above quote was NOT addressed to you, and was NOT in a direct response to any posting made by you, and that's my point! In addition, the quote written by me specifically says "wants to play [i]me[/i] for an idiot". I don't see how anything therein could possibly have been construed as an insult to you.

Yes, in my opinion, 550 pesos would be paying too much for an all night session. I typically expect to pay 300-400 pesos, and that means all the sex I can muster until noon the next day, none of this leaving at 6am crap. Still, this is just [i]my opinion[/i].

Your statement "price had nothing to do with the service i received. its all about how you click with the girl." only reinforces my point that there is at best only a causal correlation between price and service.

You're right in your observation that the chicas in Blacks are under instructions not to approach you unless beckoned, although they are undoubtedly the most "on parade" chicas I've ever seen, and to me it's so obvious and repetitive that I find it annoying. Personally, I prefer that they either sit quietly or simply dance on the dance floor.

Your observations about some of the other clubs is accurate, but there are other clubs where the girls are also under instructions not to leave you alone unless beckoned. Personally, I've learned to tell the girls that approach me that I think that they are attractive, but I like to see all the girls and then make my choice later. No big deal. In addition, I also know that I've been in many of the places enough times that the girls already know that they'd be wasting their time because I'm going to make my own selection.

Jackson[/blue]

You are right Jackson. Get over it rb1

LMAO.... I could only expect an argument like this from a person who doesn't care about the costs. dammit, your an idiot!!!
1. For overpaying. And claiming I'm the IMF, price means nothing to me.
2. For keeping up such a bullshit argument, in a vain attempt of people actually taking your obnoxious side.

If the money means nothing to you. Why not do what my uncle does(he does it because he doesn't leave his desk, not obnoxious), Import them!! In fact you can bring women from all over the world to your doorstep. Search the escort sites..read the reviews on this forum..set up the trip thru her agency...Tada, fresh poon at your doorstep, and you can pay them as much as you want. Such an expense should mean nothing for you, so that we can enjoy are mongering destinations trip after trip without being forced to pay the "stupid tax" that you implemented..

i forgot, you all shop the kmart bluelight specials as well.

Thanksgiving Dinner set for Friday, November 28th @ 9 PM.


I'm kind of "wow'ed" by the tremendous response to my invitation for dinner during Thanksgiving. In two days I have about 8-10 guys that have already RSVP'ed. To give each of those arriving a little later in the week a chance to make it I have made reservations for 9 PM on Friday, November 28th. Those that RSVP'ed have been emailed the name of the restaurant and the details of this meeting. I'm not posting publically due to privacy and safety concerns.

The general game plan will be to meet at this restaurant at 9 PM. Some of us will probably meet a little earlier to have some drinks and get to know one another. We'll have a great dinner, dessert and drinks. A good time will be had by all. After dinner we will split up in groups of 3 or so and hit the clubs. Bring your appetites!

If you will be in Buenos Aires and want to be included, email me and I'll add you to the list. Looking forward to seeing some of you again and looking forward to meeting some of you I haven't met.

[email]saintofba@hotmail.com[/email]

I was told by one of the girls at Black, that they will ask Norteamericanos $250 for short time because, and I quote, "it seems that to them that's nothing." So, if that's nothing to you, I say go ahead an pay it, 'cause you are making it easier for her to keep her "managers" happy.


In my trip I found that Playwomen had the same quality of girls as Black, and they were charging me 200 pesos for short time.

My advice to cash flushed Norteamericanos is to go, on their first night in BA, to Black. Once in Black, look for the prettiest girl that you can find there, take her to a well lit area and make sure she's still pretty, then take her to your room for a short time session paying 100 dollars . That will be your baseline, as it is for me.

Then, on your second night, go to the other clubs in Recoleta so that you can see for yourself that the one thing that Black has going for it is location: it's in front of the Alvear Palace

Since you want to give the women of argentina the gift of overpaying, why stop there, argentineans are very hospitable people, Why not just over pay in every way(hotel, plane ticket, tips, meals etc)In fact since money doesn't mean a thing to you why not, help stabilize their economy, by depositing all your us cash into their government(i've seen the owner of the Sandals chains do it for Jamaica). Since your are SO WEALTHY it shouldn't be a problem. If you pulled that of the government would subsidize your hobby fees so you wouldn't even have to worry about paying for sex again.

Seriously, What do you get out of overpaying. You know that you are overpaying, because you noted it. Is it to show off to fellow mongers, to gain the attention of your girls or is it to take away the guilt from the activity? if it is for any of those reasons, you aren't accomplishing them. I would guess that a man of your stature would never bed the same woman twice, so if overpay after the act what good is it? it doesn't change what just happened, all you did was make her underperform when her next client is only able to give her asking price, all you do is put an idea in her head that if she could get that from you she should get it from everyone else(at least tourists) and even if you do plan to see her again, wouldn't it suit you to follow the veteran hobbiest by giving her a cumulative tip on your last encounter.
Your actions are no different from people who litter highways, you think," oh my little garbage won't dirty the whole highway" See how wrong your approach is? too bad we can't fine you. ciao(pimsleur is working)

rb1. Many guys are convinced that if they are in an upscale environment and pay an inflated price they are purchasing a "quality" product. Some times this is true. I don't mind paying for quality when the product for which I am paying is superior to other products on the market.....Hence, I own a Tag rather than a Timex....I drive a Volvo rather than a Honda....and live in a well appointed, upscale home rather than a cheap apartment.

The key is to be discerning.....sometimes there is a difference when paying more, sometimes not. Even when there is a difference between products at different price points....it is still possible to overpay for a quality product. For example, I bought my Tag for several hundred dollars less than I might otherwise have paid by shopping around. This is called being a smart consumer!

I have been to Blacks several times, usually after having visited other boliches. To me: A. There was little or no difference in quality, other than the fact that most of the chicas in Black seemed older and more "professional" (read: hardened, jaded) than the chicas in Hook or Madahos. B. The prices were higher. Consequently, I choose not to return to Blacks. And if I did take a chica home from this location, I would not pay her asking price....

This having been said, if you are convinced that the chicas in Blacks are superior and worth the extra cost, go for it....but, please, confine your impulse to overpay for what many of us consider at best an average product to Blacks. This boliche is already well known as an overpriced location, so you do the rest of us no harm. But if you venture into other boliches and start paying similar amounts you will have the effect of driving up prices, which does a disservice to every other monger in Buenos Aires.

Let's make a deal....we won't laugh at you for paying inflated prices for an inferior product if you won't refer to the chicas we choose as kmart blue light specials.......Cheap shots don't serve any good, other than to make you feel smugly superior.......

Meanwhile, Thanks , Jackson for posting payment guidelines.....as informed consumers we will be able to make better decisions about what to pay for the chica of our choice.....and FWIW, I was in BA two weeks ago and found your post right on target re:prices.....

to the board:

sorry if i offended some of you. not my intent at all. the point i was trying to make was simply this:

the going rate in Blacks is 150-200 us dollars. thats it plain and simple. i chose to pay the rate. to ridicule me or anyone for choosing to pay that rate is ridiculous. i did not overpay by the standards stated by jackson and others when i went to playwoman.

to ridicule and insult me becasue i may have the means to pay 150 dollars is also stupid, as is asking me not to go to argentina.

at least 3 of the posters responding to my messages and attacking me have probably never been to ba, and have never posted any information on ba that would be useful to anyone.

I think Saint and others have said the same thing: there is no harm in checking it out. It was stupid of me to use the kmart line, but its just as stupid to attack me.

Saint, EZE et al, will be in BA, staying in Recoleta, first time later this month. Have read all reviews, etc., but wondering if one of the old pros can give me a specific recommendation at chuponalgasSPAMyahoo.com (SPAM =@). I like GFE type 18-24 skinny, fun good-humored chicas. Large chest, big act not necessary. Prefer sweet and funny. I am clean non-smoker, light drinker, middle-aged and very respectful, so I promise I won't embarass you if you refer your favorite chica. Not a lurker, see my very specific reports on the Panama City board. Any leads appreciated!

Wow, EZY. I'm not going to get into the middle of this, but...

Has Blacks changed so much in the last two years? My experience was rather opposite yours. I found the girls in Blacks and Playwomen to be young and MUCH more attractive than any of the women in ANY of the other establishments. So great was the difference that after seeing the offerings in 8-10 places, i returned exclusively to B and P repeatedly during my stay. From what I saw, there was no reason to go back to the other joints.

I say that only to make this point: Everyone has a different set of experiences with any given place. Perhaps things vary based on the day of the week, or the time of the year, or the year.... Those things, in addition to the variances in people's tastes and expectations means that a given person's preference for Blacks may be quite valid, although it's all a very 'liquid' situation. Things, no doubt, may change. And, just as your experience with Blacks has discouraged you from trying it again, and has elicited the Tourist Trap label from some, other hobbyists may see your prefered establishments as Wastes of Time....

Who really cares who likes what place, and for what reason? If one goes to Blacks and pays what they charge, isn't that the same as buying a Tag? I'm sure the majority of folks would say that the Tag is an extravagant waste, since the Timex keeps the same time.*

If the current rate in Blacks is, indeed 200 US, it seems to be far out of proportion to what is being discussed as the more "common" rate elsewhere. But, I can guarantee you that if I were in BsAs now, having traveled 5,000 miles to get there, and I didn't see anyone I wanted in a lower-priced club, that 200 US would be spent. Certainly not ridiculous.

By the way, I'm only defending a different point of view, whether or not I concur with it. I don't, however, subscribe to the vulgarity in which the various opinions are being expressed.

Adam

*Personally, I favour a Rolex Daytona, so I obviously don't hold this perspective. But, I don't disagree with it. It's just not MY perspective.

Ok. Everyone has made their peace. I think it's time to move on. It's good to get different perspectives on things. Everyone is making good points. Remember one man's trash is another man's treasure. I liked Ezy's TAG analogy. I have a Rolex and a TAG and I'm sure many would consider anyone that spends thousands upon thousands of dollars for a watch is an "idiot". I happen to disagree. Same goes for Blacks.

Some things in life you can't put a price on. My theory is to do what makes you happy. I'm not saying I'm correct on this but it's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. I really don't think anyone is gonna "ruin" the price market by paying more at Black's. Black's will always cost more. No one is saying you can't find better girls at other clubs for cheaper but if paying $200 US for a girl at Black's (or any other club) makes you happy, you have the money, etc. then do it.

Adam Bomb, YES a lot can change in 2 years. Heck, alot can change in 2 months let alone 2 years. I also think too many dudes are trying to over analyze or over plan their trip. Just relax and wait till you get to ground zero. Everyone will be fine.

P.S. Remember it like this. Some of the girls at places like Black's are like jewelry stores that sell Rolex's. They have their price, they will not deviate from that set price, not everyone can afford them, not everyone wants to spend that much money in the store, and many think it's a complete waste of money. However, there will always be a certain segment of the population that not only can afford to shop in that "store" and they will spend that kind of money. These kind of stores could care less what every other store is charging for a "watch".

I hope no one thinks I'm advocating spending that kind of money at Black's because I'm simply NOT. Read my reports. I've walked away if girls wouldn't come down from crazy pricing. Everything to me has a risk/reward ratio. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sex to me is like a precious commodity no different than gold, silver, diamonds. Some will always pay more than they need to for these "things" but if it makes you happy...so be it.

Life is good amigos.

Fellow Argentina Viewers,
On to a little different philosophy then the latest thread. As promised, some insights from my last trip, (end Sept, early Oct.) and other trips.
As mentioned earlier, with a latino amigo, called up a large number of girls from the sites: (area-vip, platynum, gemidos, hotwomen, sensualbaires). My spanish is somewhat limited but with the extension phone, could follow mi amigos conversations. Also had a number of my own, in Enlgish. First off, the phone conversations themselves can be a good source of entertainment. The girls never seem to be at a loss for words, and in English, I noticed they handle delicate discussions with pause and an ear to replying in a manner that the ****** may appreciate.
One of the English speakers on area-vip was very intriguing but there were a number of warning signals that made me uncomfortable. First, she much prefered I come there, but was willing to come to my hotel. Second, other phone calls kept coming in so she had to place me on hold, (could hear her looking for another deal on the other phone in Spanish. Even one at the door finally which shortened the phone call that time.) All understandable but maybe too active for my mental picture. But the strangest experience was when I called another time, to have someone answer in Spanish, saying they were the same girl, pero no inges, (even though the vip ad says english). Got my amigo on the phone, he did not recognize the voice either. Finally, someone else comes on the phone with english, another girl from the site, (not my type), saying the other girl was not available, but I am. Sounds a lot like one of these apartments discussed earlier.
Other phone calls on other sites indicated a few saying they were not the one in the picture, she is out, but that they are just as nice. (offers to come by the hotel and if you did not like what you saw, 10peso cab fare, and goodbye. My amigo did this one night when he brought phone #s back to the hotel, no internet there, and he was VERY pleasantly surprised, with no goodbyes for 2 hours.) My fifth or sixth choice was from sensualbaires, (due to many no answers or change-ups, keeping in mind my limited, self imposed field, they need to speak some English. It is amazing that with all the choices, one can get so picky, but knowing spanish certainly widens the field). A great time and the pictures are true. Availability was without limits, on two separate occasions, no hassle, but not at her place, (never asked to, but later learned young one at home with the housekeeper/nanny.) Great conversations also on the economy, how the coralito has changed things, personal, etc.etc. All internet phone calls were the standard 100P/hr, (1 or 2 at 150P/hr), culo 30 extra if into it, all night 300P.
The nightclubs, playwomen, shampoo, etc. all a lot of fun, but sure get to slim good pickings by 3am to 3:30am. So, when things really don't get started until 12:30am or so, you do not have a lot of time to him and hah. My advice is to get to these places relatively early, and hop fast to the next place if you do not like what you see at the first one after 1/2 hr or so.
Newport is a nice low key place that I have been to many times, with more English speaking girls now then I ever knew in the past. A high number of them were however asking more then most places, and not just to the gringo. One wanted to go in the worst way but just was not my type, (that night). Bought the drink, had some nice rubs, wet ears, etc., told her to go on if she liked as it was not going to happen here. She was then with some portano, quickly came back and she said how about you and me go now, or wait till I get back in an hour after this guy! Her amiga, (cutest little blonde), said to my amigo, call me after 4am when she is off and if I am not with someone, I'll come over, more reasonably priced. He would have but by then too tired to enjoy.
I noted a lot of club girls from Tartagal, Tucuman, etc., some of them very exotic mixes too.
Hope I get back soon.
middleageguy