American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Tiny12;415895]I think you've got a point. Both the CEO and the public union employees play way too big a part in choosing the people who will decide their pay, being directors and politicians respectively. Shareholders and voters / taxpayers must take control, or suffer the consequences. In your imaginary group, it's the tea party activist who's the hero.[/QUOTE]I don't disagree with this. There is an inherent problem when CEOs are bargaining with a board they control.

But, the joke posited by Esten misses the point. While I'm no fan of [i]private sector[/i] Unions, they are at least subject to the laws of supply and demand, profit and loss, and an economic model that forces them to come to grip with reality or face the death (read, bankruptcy) of the host on which they are a parasite. That is, unless the government steps in for a bailout. The same reality does not exist for public sector unions.

In the public sector model, there is no CEO. The fat union guy stole all 12 cookies, passed 5 of them under the table to the Democrat politician, and the union guy still looks hungry. Meanwhile, the Democrat is rifling through the pockets of the tea party guy. The fat union guy's got to eat, and the politician sure as h*ll isn't going to give up any of his 5.

A public union employee, a politician, and a CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies in the middle of it.

The politician pushes the plate over to the employee and thanks him for his public service.

The CEO leans over to the politician and says [i]"That union guy is getting too many cookies. Give him fewer cookies and I'll pay to get you re-elected."[/i]

[QUOTE=Esten; 415914]A public union employee, a politician, and a CEO are sitting at a table with a plate of a dozen cookies in the middle of it.

The politician pushes the plate over to the employee and thanks him for his public service.

The CEO leans over to the politician and says [i]"That union guy is getting too many cookies. Give him fewer cookies and I'll pay to get you re-elected."[/i][/QUOTE]Esten,

In order to understand your scenario, please tell me...

- Who made the cookies on the table?

- Shouldn't the owner of the cookies get to decide what happens to their cookies.

Thanks,

Jackson

I'll surely have fashioned a 'poking stick' (shiv) out of one of the wooden spoons laying around the kitchen. If the table is on my property, the first one to make a move on my cookies is going to catch the poking stick in the carotid, the rest will be catching some 45ACP. Add a $14 spade from Home Depot, a bag of lime and no one is going to miss any of the thieving scum.

Where can we get Sex in the USA?

That is all we want to Know.

We do not give a shit about what you think about who is in charge in our country and the workingman.

Maybe you should join Qaddafi your brother businessman?

Check Minnesota

I have been going to to Buenos Aires to get Laid FOR 10 YEARS.

The Price is right, why do you have to add all this other political bull Shit?

Who Cares, Are You Knot getting enough?

All Us mongers want to know IS WHAT IS THE PRICE AND THE ADDRESSES OF WHERE THEY CAN GET LAID?

How come you are NOT voting at home?

Or Did You Vote Wrong. THINK OR Can You?

Wake Up and see "Inside Job" The Academy award Winner.

How You and I Got FUCKED?

It Is Not About The Party You Voted For! THEY DO NOT CARE FOR US LITTLE MEN!, They Fucked You and ME!

SEE This!

" InSide JOB". The Movie.

You can a get a Pirate copy on any Street corner.

Screw the workers rights in around the the world, especially in China!

No Unions in China.

I know some some you "Can Not See the Trees from the Forest."

Stan, I never gave much thought to public employee unions until you brought it up and the recent news came out of Wisconsin. It's a real problem.

WT69, using your words, you've contributed your share of political bull shit to this thread, so I don't understand what you're complaining about. Especially since you could just disregard the thread. By the way, honestly, thanks for your diligent work compiling lists. I've never used the one in Buenos Aires, but have in a couple of other places.

I can't thank you enough for all the work you do on the privado list. Please don't take this the wrong way, as often times the typed response does not do justice to the intended message.

[quote=]I know some some you "Can Not See the Trees from the Forest."[/QUOTE][quote=]It Is Not About The Party You Voted For! THEY DO NOT CARE FOR US LITTLE MEN!, They Fucked You and ME![/quote]Look out, trees!

[quote=]Who Cares, Are You Knot getting enough?[/quote]Sounds like you care. So do I.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69; 415924]I have been going to to Buenos Aires to get Laid FOR 10 YEARS.

The Price is right, why do you have to add all this other political bull Shit? [/quote]There is no one happier about your freedom to do so than me. Let's hope we can all contribute to keeping it that way.

I don't view it as bullshit.

Everything that I enjoy, have ever enjoyed or will ever enjoy in life is derivative of my freedom to do it. It is not possible, nor desirable for me to separate enjoying and exploiting freedom from respecting it, for neither can exist without the other. Therefore, I enjoy with deference to the forces that made it possible. So far, only God and American patriots (their allies and righteous practitioners of freedom) have contributed to that freedom. It is incumbent upon me to do what I can to make sure that others can avail themselves of those same freedoms. It is a moral imperative of all Americans not only to preserve those freedoms but to avoid infringing upon them, intentionally or otherwise. That last part is what trips up most.

Our freedom didn't come easy or cheap nor is it a maintenance-free appliance. While our creator has imbued certain inalienable rights upon us, He didn't guarantee that we would be free to enjoy them, He left that part up to us.

If my posts bother you, please feel free to ignore me.

He just can't help himself WW. Good guy who is politically "way out there" and certainly not in touch with america these days. Hmmm. Just like the democratic party in general. If he doesn't like the thread then he doesn't have to read it. Makes sense to me! Happy Mongering WT69. Toymann

When I get bored from not getting Laid, etc..

I'm not saying that what this thread has to say is turning me on.
Like some of You.

I check in too see what Middle America is thinking about. Must be tough, with no clear calming Waters to See (Sea) (Ocean) and Feel.

I heard / read that the one of the reasons our founding fathers left England was to get away from the Anti-religion rulers.

I guess the old beliefs followed a little bit of our Middle America thinking.

Like the protesting at a Funeral.

What the election showed in 2008 was:

Bushes religious Right is here.

Personally, I respect all religions.

Even the belief "Each man is his own God".

"But do Not Take one."

"I don't care where anyone is from, Country, State or City."

"I know we all want to get Laid."

My brother gets home and turns on the TV.

FoxNews. I heard on the radio that the viewers are in the age group 65+.

And that the younger age groups do not want to listen or see that B. S.

I watch it with my bro and we both get pissed off. My Bro starts screaming, agreeing or not agreeing at the TV. I get pissed about how they are not impartial about what they are saying. Why would anyone want to Lie or Twist the Truth and Facts?

Must be Big Bucks. How low can you go?

What we believe in, in politics makes no difference to us, the graft and greed will prevail.

" I'd rather be drunk, watching something happy, than depressing". Like the bad guy getting is ass kicked, not ours."
Or getting Laid or helping others to do that, with Lists, not BULL SHIT.

It was said a long time ago."No News Is Good News." Yes, no news, is calming, but does get boring, but FOXNEWS,
Stop the Slanted Opinions. Please!

Gas is going up? Why. 2% is from Libya.?
?

"Greed is Good". What movie was that From?

[QUOTE=Toymann;415938]He just can't help himself WW. Good guy who is politically "way out there" and certainly not in touch with america these days. Hmmm. Just like the democratic party in general. If he doesn't like the thread then he doesn't have to read it. Makes sense to me! Happy Mongering WT69. Toymann[/QUOTE]

The debate goes on, but beyond all the rhetoric is the everpresent virus, SELF INTEREST. It taints every individual and every action. Some may argue that it is a necessay ingredient for self survival. Well, I agree but only up to a certain level before greed is good becomes greed is evil. Where is America is in regard to greed in 2011? Well, I leave it to you. The Middle East revolution shows that we have supported some really evil people for decades in our self interest, but then pretend that we really believe in liberty and domocracy for all. Wow! Obama or Bush, does it really matter?

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;415924]Wake Up and see "Inside Job" The Academy award Winner.[/QUOTE]Do you remember the part in that movie where they showed how Fannie and Freddie were the primary cause of the financial crisis?

I don't either.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 415915]Esten,

In order to understand your scenario, please tell me.

- Who made the cookies on the table?

- Shouldn't the owner of the cookies get to decide what happens to their cookies. [/QUOTE]Jackson and Walleye both asked the question: Where did the cookies come from? In my last example, the politician (government) is giving the cookies (money) to the union guy as payment for services rendered.

Where did the government get the cookies from? From the taxpayers.

Where did the taxpayers get the cookies from? From their employers (or customers).

Where did the employers (or customers) get their cookies from? From their employers (or customers).

And so on and so on. So it's really pointless talking about where the cookies came from. What's important is who are the cookies owed to. To your second question- just who is the owner?

Well the union guy is the owner. He owns the cookies. Why? Because of the laws and contracts in place for the government to collect taxes to pay for public services. I fully agree, the owner should decide what happens to their cookies.

Which brings us to the next question....

[QUOTE=Stan the Man; 415801]Even now, with all the union furor in Wisconsin, none of the union bosses or lackeys, and no one in the media, has ever bothered to try to articulate why public unions are necessary or beneficial. I'm pretty sure I know why.

But, one last time: Why do we need public unions? [/QUOTE]Easy. The same reason private sector unions have value:

[i]To help negotiate good deals and avoid bad deals. [/i]

All hard working Americans deserve fair compensation and reward for their work. We may not agree on what's fair, and fair will vary depending on the job and skill level. But without leverage and negotiating power you are more at risk of unfair or bad deals, however that may be defined.

The potential for unfairness exists in the public sector just as it does in the private sector. Look at the states. Some states are making sure the budget 'pain' is shared by spending cuts and tax increases on the wealthy. Other states are giving the wealthy a free pass and dumping all the pain on public workers.

I'm not a big pro-union guy. But I see the potential for Big Business / Republicans in positions of power to protect or enrich the wealthy at the expense of the working poor and middle class. For this reason alone, I think private and public unions can provide leverage against this threat and therefore have value.

Getting back to Jackson's question, one thing is for sure: the union guy's cookies are NO business of CEO's like David Koch. The Koch Brothers and their front group "Americans for Prosperity" are basically trying to buy politicians to advance their agenda, which includes killing public unions. You guys know the story.

I am sure Walleye has a giant poster of David Koch on his bedroom wall.

[QUOTE=Esten; 415950]Do you remember the part in that movie where they showed how Fannie and Freddie were the primary cause of the financial crisis?

I don't either. [/QUOTE]Unlike Michael Moore, Charles Ferguson is no doubt a brilliant guy. While he is a successful technologist and entrepreneur, however, I missed the part of his background that makes him an expert on micro and macro economics nor did I discover anything that would make him an expert on the effects of government regulation on the economy and human behavior. While I was busy not seeing things that would qualify him as an expert on all these subjects, I did come across some things that would make me question his objectivity, namely: he grew up in the Bay Area, graduated from Berkley in '78, got a PhD in Political science and worked for Clinton.

I am glad to know that the definitive analysis of the largest global economic calamity in generations has been performed by a biased, political operative with an agenda. Maybe Congress should just adopt the movie as the official version of what happened.

You can't help but chuckle that the Congressman Republican Leader of the House now agrees with the Obama Administration:

"I think raising the debt limit is the responsible thing to do for our country, the responsible thing to do for our economy. If we were to fail the increase the debt limit, we would send our economy into a tailspin." (WSJ 3/4/11)

This is exactly what most of the Democrats and President Obama have been saying for months on end.

Welcome to the real world, Congressman Boehner.