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[QUOTE=Dickhead] Granted it could be problematic to have cattle in a one-bedroom apartment in Capital Federal, but why not a few chickens? Even a large pig would fit in a one-bedroom apartment.[/QUOTE]There's plenty of house pigs in this 'burg. You don't have to look too far.
Argento
[QUOTE=Tessan]This seems strange to me. The Truckers are blocking the roads, because they are mad about the Farm Strike. Somehow by blocking the roads they will get the farmers to end there strike? Who do you blame for the food shortages? The farmers or the truckers? The farmers are no longer blocking food coming into the cities, since they want the support of the population. So the Trucker will, so they don't get that support? This is funny Argentine Logic, I think.
(snip)
Don't think the trucker are on the side of the farmers, since when the farmers where blocking roads earlier, they had conflicts with the truckers. At one point the truckers threaded to break throw the farmer lines, and end the blockade, when the farmers announced they where armed, and would defend themselves. There is some legal stuff going on against one of the farm leader because he said that then, think it was DeAnglio, or something like that. Forget his name now. Being accused of inciting valance. The truckers then said, that if they could not pass, they would block all roads, so no one passes.
By blocking the roads, then or now, do the truckers help the Farmers by putting more pressure on the government to settle? Or help the government by getting the public mad? If the public gets mad, who do the blame? Gov? Truckers? Farmers? I am confused.[/QUOTE]The situation is fairly complex, and the sources you use to get info are either rather tilted to the farmers side (after all, Bloomberg, WSJ and such come from the financial sector, which used to enjoy a better position before the Kirchner's model) or incomplete.
I surmise that truckers got a wink from the government to worsen the situation, but that's just a surmise. After all, truckers cannot cope with the sharp decrease in activities that the lockout provokes on them.
The rational behind the trucker-farmer conflict is essentially the same one behind the farmers-government: "If you damage my interests, I will create such a degree of chaos that the population will hate you and force you to backpedal".
All the parties are "playing chess". After the first images on TV of rotten milk spilled at the side of the roads, the farmers lost a lot of support and understood that, if they wanted to continue the lockout, they would have to avoid shortages to the population. Truckers are forcing such shortages, and media groups (even if tilted to the farmers side) cannot avoid to show the milk being wasted again. Farmers lose face that way because, to the eyes of the population, if they create chaos to get their way, truckers / doctors / police officers / industrial tycoons (name your favorite sector) have the same right to do so, and chaos only favors the iron fist of the government to impose its policies.
I guess you were referring to Alfredo De Angeli.
Andres
[QUOTE=Andres]I surmise that truckers got a wink from the government to worsen the situation, but that's just a surmise. After all, truckers cannot cope with the sharp decrease in activities that the lockout provokes on them.
All the parties are "playing chess". After the first images on TV of rotten milk spilled at the side of the roads, the farmers lost a lot of support and understood that, if they wanted to continue the lockout, they would have to avoid shortages to the population. Truckers are forcing such shortages, and media groups (even if tilted to the farmers side) cannot avoid to show the milk being wasted again. Farmers lose face that way because, to the eyes of the population, if they create chaos to get their way, truckers / doctors / police officers / industrial tycoons (name your favorite sector) have the same right to do so, and chaos only favors the iron fist of the government to impose its policies.
Andres[/QUOTE]It is strange that the Argentine people will blame the farmers for the rotting milk, when the farmers want to sell it, and the truckers are not letting them.
If there is allot of chaos, it can justify they government using drastic measures to end the Chaos. The measures will be focused on the Farmers, since the truckers are on the governments side. There might be some logic behind this after all. The K's want to force something to happen.
"All the parties are "playing chess". After the first images on TV of rotten milk spilled at the side of the roads, the farmers lost a lot of support and understood that, if they wanted to continue the lockout, they would have to avoid shortages to the population. Truckers are forcing such shortages, and media groups (even if tilted to the farmers side) cannot avoid to show the milk being wasted again. Farmers lose face that way because, to the eyes of the population, if they create chaos to get their way, truckers / doctors / police officers / industrial tycoons (name your favorite sector) have the same right to do so, and chaos only favors the iron fist of the government to impose its policies."
Andrés, I totally respect your point of view. But why can't Argentineans stop fucking themselves? Why is such a relatively well-educated country so inefficient? I understand this whole idea of "losing face" but isn't it time to move on from that? Especially now with the global food situation. There is opportunity to be had and it seems to me that Argentina could have a narrow window of time to benefit from that, and it seems like they don't want to.
I am an "izquierdista" but if I were running the country I would send police / military force to keep the roads open. Closing the roads and fucking the general citizenry, I can't support it.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]if I were running the country I would send police / military force to keep the roads open.[/QUOTE]I co-sign.
Regards,
BM.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]If I were running the country I would send police / military force to keep the roads open. Closing the roads and fucking the general citizenry, I can't support it.[/QUOTE]The truckers are closing the roads now, not the farmers. They are probably doing it, because the K's ask them too, to put pressure on the farmers. When the people get mad enough, there will be pressure on everyone and the K's will blame the farmers. This might be a tactic to get the farmers to give up, or settle for some token cutting of the tax. The farmers are not held together that strongly, they have different interest. Different types of farmers have different problems. The Milk producers right now, are having there milk spoiled, and they don't care about soy taxes. The K's already said they will help some of the smaller farmers with give backs. The K's want to divide the farmers. By having the truckers put more pressure on the farmers, it will cause divisions that already exist between the farmers to show up faster.
The K's are not going to force the trucker off the road, since there doing there bidding. If the K's ask them to leave the roads, they will. The Trucker union showed up at CFK really a few months back.
After my last post, I went to read news, and found this.
[quote]BUENOS AIRES, June 6 (Reuters) - Argentine farm groups decided to end their latest protest against soy export taxes on Monday as planned, after a meeting where they discussed possibly extending the anti-government action.
The farm groups made the announcement on Friday as frustrated truckers began blocking rural highways to press for a solution to the stand- off between the government and the agricultural sector, stoking fears of food shortages.
"This is a new contribution from Argentine farmers in search of solutions and social peace," the country's four main farm groups said in a news release.
Farmers in Argentina, a major world grain and beef exporter, have been holding back grains from market since May 28, in their third protest in as many months against government farm policy.
The prolonged conflict between the agricultural sector and the government has hit Argentine bond prices, sparked a demand for safe-haven dollars and hurt the trucking industry as well as paralyzing local grains markets.
President Cristina Fernandez's center-left government introduced in March a sliding-scale system for grains export taxes that hiked levies on the top crop, soybeans.
President Fernandez slammed the farmers in a Thursday night speech, saying that only the wealthy could afford to stop working for 90 days.
The country's top Roman Catholic bishops asked the government this week to call for a "transparent and constructive" dialogue and urged protesting farmers to change their methods.
The roadblocks forced several truckers transporting milk to dump their spoiled goods, rattling a country where nearly one in four people is poor. Some food industry officials warned on Friday that beef and dairy shortages could be felt in the coming hours if protests continued.
Argentina is one of the world's top suppliers of corn, soybeans, wheat and beef. (Additional reporting by Nicolas Misculin; Writing by Hilary Burke; Editing by Christian Wiessner)[/quote]
If the protest is over, wonder what going to happen on Monday to the peso? Will the central bank let it go up? Or will they try to bring it back down, by selling peso, to around 3.15 as they have been doing for the last few years? If they let it go up, it might mean they want the peso to strengthen to fight inflation. If they bring it down, it means they where forcing it up, to punish the farmers and anyone shorting the peso during the strike.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]I am an "izquierdista" but if I were running the country I would send police / military force to keep the roads open. Closing the roads and fucking the general citizenry, I can't support it.[/QUOTE]A leftist in the mode of Stalin! I enjoy your posts but give us a break. Your solution is pure fascism. The farmers are fighting for economic survival. Remember that they are being taxed on receipts not profits and the retension impost is just the start. With all your learned talk on investment strategy and good retuns on capital, farmers tradionally have less than a 3% return on capital. Untill this boom in cereals throughout the world, Argentine farmers have been effectively without income. Local inflation and poor export markets made them very uncompetitive. Remember there is no farm support here. That enabled US farmers to survive 2 decades of almost nil returns.
So I guess as a stock invester, you would be more than happy to contribute 42% of any gross sales that you make out of your portfolio, and then if there were profits, pay income tax. All the other imposts that exist here but don't in the US still must be paid. No matter how efficiently the farmers have become, the woeful transport system adds enormous on-costs to their cost of production and is completely out of their control. The sight of 2000-3000 grain trucks and trailers waiting 2 days to discharge is a sympton of inefficencies that would not be tolerated in other countries.
If they don't win some common sense concessions, they will not be able to survive as producers of soy and will once again return to producing what gives them the best returns. And it won't be soy.
Remember that the roots of the Peronistas are in fascism, and under the Kirchners, the political selection process has been put under the control of the party infrastructure. So effectively you cannot get on a ballot without approval from the party machine. Congress no longer has control of the money and budget. Individual freedom, not that it has ever been great in my experience, is steadily being eroded. The great farm rip-off is a device to enrich the political aims of the Kirchners and their crony capitalism mates such as Askenasy. Always remember that the end game here is the accumulation of wealth from corruption. No ifs or buts. It might start out with idealism but quickly degenerates into the main game. And the Kirchners are carbon copies of their predecessors. The only changes to their people's prospects are negative. Poverty has increased by close to 2 million on their watch. And property crime has close to doubled.
I don't think the preliminary return of Fascicm a la Kirchner is indicating that it is a means of reviving the lives of Argentineans. So I find your wash and wear solution completely unaceptable.
Argento
Truckers will stay on the route until farmers begin to sell grains again, TN said. Some shops are beginning to run out of goods, the television station said.
[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=avIv0ttcVYP8&refer=latin_america[/url]
[QUOTE=Tessan]The truckers are closing the roads now, not the farmers. [/QUOTE]I don't give a shit if the truckers, the farmers, or the Seven Dwarves are blocking the roads; I would send in the military and / or the police to keep the roads open. Blocking the roads is fascism. It is not peaceful protest. Picketing the roads, talking to people at the toll booths, that is peaceful protest. Interfering with the food supply is blackmail.