American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Peter Sideburn;430921]Esten's points are well taken however they have nothing to do with an individual and you can't say that an individual with a gun at his house is 5 times more likely etc. You can't apply a population statistic to an individual.[/QUOTE]And Peter's point is well taken, but he's provided nothing to invalidate the results of the study. Nobody said every individual's risk is the same as the broad population. The population risk is an average, some individuals will be lower risk and some higher. Nothing complicated here. The full study can be read at the American Journal of Epidemiology (the PDF is also free) : aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

[QUOTE]A researcher studied Brad Pitt and his crew at a bar and found they were 95% likely to pick up the chick of their choice. My fat butt went to the same bar expecting to have 95% likelihood as well but struck out again and again. The point is you have to know the population studied. You have to know that the population studied is statistically similar to the population you are talking about before you can even claim to know the population's risk but even then you can't predict an individuals risk with certainty at all.[/QUOTE]If Brad Pitt is around, the odds of picking up a chick increase.

If a gun is around, the odds of being killed by a gun increase.

Pretty simple actually. Again with the caveat we are talking about averages.

[QUOTE]By the way the Constitution guarantees personal / individual freedoms and no one should...[/QUOTE]Yawn...

[QUOTE=Member #2041;430948] I would suggest that the thing that ACTUALLY prevents the U.S. from detaining/exterminating anyone whom it wishes to is the silly little requirement that they have probable cause to arrest you, and then you as a citizen have a Constitutional right of a fair trial.[/QUOTE]This is off the subject of guns, but USA governments detain and exterminate a lot of innocent people without probable cause or fair trials. There are so many laws on the books, penalties are so severe, and lawyers are so expensive that most people plead guilty instead of going through a trial.

[QUOTE=Peter Sideburn;430941]If a country tried to invade the US East Coast do you think it is likely they would receive more resistance from an armed or an unarmed population? Look at history and the answer should be pretty clear. If we were being invaded groups otherwise known as militias would form and would coordinate attacks on any invading force. This can be quite effective actually especially when they then blend back into the citizenry. If this weren't important then why does our and every other country's state department track the number of armed citizens in countries around the World? Wake up, the fact that 100 million armed citizens would greet any invading force certainly helps restrain counties with many soldiers but relatively little supply and air capability.[/QUOTE]ROTFLMAO! An invasion of the East Coast would not be met by a civilian militia, it would be met by aerial carpet bombing after refusing orders to turn back.

This is the 21st century, not the 18th century. There is no civilian militia, and no need for one. WT69 is 100% correct, the second amendment is outdated.

[QUOTE=Caricoso;430964]Fabulous! So if I get on the roof of my house and I see a "couple of tanks" with army soldiers around I do what?[/QUOTE]Oh, I don't know, maybe grow some balls?

I guess armed resistance isn't for everyone.

[QUOTE=Esten; 430970]And Peter's point is well taken, but he's provided nothing to invalidate the results of the study. Nobody said every individual's risk is the same as the broad population. The population risk is an average, some individuals will be lower risk and some higher. Nothing complicated here. The full study can be read at the American Journal of Epidemiology (the PDF is also free) : aje. Oxfordjournals. Org / content / 160/10/929. Full.

If Brad Pitt is around, the odds of picking up a chick increase.

If a gun is around, the odds of being killed by a gun increase.

Pretty simple actually. Again with the caveat we are talking about averages.

Yawn.[/QUOTE]Okay, here's some more stats for you:

"[i]Probably fewer than 2% of handguns and well under 1% of all guns will ever be involved in a violent crime. Thus, the problem of criminal gun violence is concentrated within a very small subset of gun owners, indicating that gun control aimed at the general population faces a serious needle-in-the-haystack problem.[/i]"

- Gary Kleck,"Point Blank: Handgun Violence In America

[QUOTE=Jackson; 430974]Oh, I don't know, maybe grow some balls?

I guess armed resistance isn't for everyone.[/QUOTE]Grow some balls eh? How about getting more neurons in the brain and realize that you don't fight an army with a slingshot?

[QUOTE=Caricoso;430976]Grow some balls eh? How about getting more neurons in the brain and realize that you don't fight an army with a slingshot?[/QUOTE]That's my point: I'll have a rifle and my balls, but all you'll have is a slingshot because you're afraid of firearms.

[i]"If you can't run with the big dogs, you better hide under the porch."[/i]

And to respond to your tired old argument about "army vs armed citizen", I will repeat what I wrote just a couple of days ago:

[quote]...the way an armed citizenry fights a tyrannical government, either foreign or domestic, is by using guerrilla strategies, not by a direct confrontation which they would surely lose. History is replete with examples of citizens successfully thwarting tyrannical government forces in this manner, but you need look no further than the accounts of our own military's difficulties in dealing with "lightly armed" citizens in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.[/quote]And I will repost my question to you from the same post...

[QUOTE=Caricoso;430952]...all I had in my mind was to run home to make sure that my family was ok.[/quote]Given that in your world you wouldn't have any weapons, what exactly would you do if they weren't "ok"?

The truth is I think most people whether pro or con gun control would like to see automatic and semi-automatic weapons outlawed for private "use" (or for private ownership.). I can't see why or how anyone can say that they "NEED" one. If a collector wants one, fine. Just make it so it can't ever be used again! Personally I think if every house had a 12 gauge in it there would be a hell of a lot loss home robberies.

[QUOTE=Gandolf50;430978]The truth is I think most people whether pro or con gun control would like to see automatic and semi-automatic weapons outlawed for private "use" (or for private ownership.). I can't see why or how anyone can say that they "NEED" one. If a collector wants one, fine. Just make it so it can't ever be used again! Personally I think if every house had a 12 gauge in it there would be a hell of a lot loss home robberies.[/QUOTE]I think you're wrong, the left is trying to label all semi-automatic weapons as assault weapons. There are many hunting guns and personal protection guns that are semi-automatic, this includes Rifles, Handguns, and your beloved Shotguns. Not all semi-automatic weapons are assault weapons and it's not about "NEED" it's about being FREE.

And for all you estens out there that think the "second amendment is outdated";

[quote]It is time the critics of the Second Amendment put up and repeal it, or shut up about violating it. Their efforts to disarm and short-arm Americans violate the USA Constitution in Merriam Webster's first sense of the term—to 'disregard' it.

Hard cases make bad law, which is why they are reserved for the Constitution, not left to the caprice of legislatures, the sophistry and casuistry of judges or the despotic rule making of the chief executive and his bureaucracy. And make no mistake, guns pose one of the hardest cases a free people confronts in the 21st century, a test of whether that people cherishes liberty above tyranny, values individual sovereignty above dependency on the state, and whether they dare any longer to live free.[/QUOTE]I think it's sad that the left is trying to exploit this tragedy, to push their political agenda of gun control.

[b]They never let a serious crisis go to waste! [/b]


[i]Obama 2008 - "I Am Not Going To Take Your Guns Away, That Just Ain't True"[/i]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkUpp22fHyw&feature=player_embedded[/url]

[QUOTE=Jackson; 430977]That's my point: I'll have a rifle and my balls, but all you'll have is a slingshot because you're afraid of firearms.

[i]"If you can't run with the big dogs, you better hide under the porch."[/i]

And to respond to your tired old argument about "army vs armed citizen", I will repeat what I wrote just a couple of days ago:

And I will repost my question to you from the same post.

Given that in your world you wouldn't have any weapons, what exactly would you do if they weren't "ok"?[/QUOTE]So you know me to certify that I am afraid of firearms right? I was in the army for two years, and among other things I learn not to be afraid 'never' 'never' of the F. A. L's MAG's 45 Cal. Ak47. Bazookas, ballonets, and grenades we were handling. But 'yes' I recorded in my mind to be afraid (very afraid!) of the idiot who does not how to use them, respect them, or is totally nuts!

Of course you will give to a 14 year old a Ferrari because 'HE' asks for it, and feels capable of handling that car at 200 miles / hr. On the freeway.

That's responsibility!

[QUOTE=Caricoso; 430983]So you know me to certify that I am afraid of firearms right? I was in the army for two years, and among other things I learn not to be afraid 'never' 'never' of the F. A. L's MAG's 45 Cal. Ak47. Bazookas, ballonets, and grenades we were handling. But 'yes' I recorded in my mind to be afraid (very afraid!) of the idiot who does not how to use them, respect them, or is totally nuts!

Of course you will give to a 14 year old a Ferrari because 'HE' asks for it, and feels capable of handling that car at 200 miles / hr. On the freeway.

That's responsibility![/QUOTE]Fear the government that fears your guns

Maybe I should move back into the Gay City. Less Gun Murders, Just sex, drugs and rock 'n roll.

But California has the most, and my City Richmond, is one of the top cities for Gun Murders and that is close to the one with more. Oakland.

We have Big Time Gang Problems.

I am thinking about buy a Hand gun, and a Shot Gun, realizing that my Martial Arts weapons, Samurai Swords, Chinese Swords, Knifes and throwing stars, etc. Might not be good enough to save my life.

Come on over and help clean them out!

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state[/url]

[QUOTE=Jackson; 430975]"[i]Probably fewer than 2% of handguns and well under 1% of all guns will ever be involved in a violent crime. Thus, the problem of criminal gun violence is concentrated within a very small subset of gun owners, indicating that gun control aimed at the general population faces a serious needle-in-the-haystack problem. [/i]"

- Gary Kleck,"Point Blank: Handgun Violence In America[/QUOTE]Given there are around 300 Million guns in the country, a 1-2% rate of violent crime is a [b][i]huge[/i][/b] number.

This illustrates the seriousness of the problem and the need to address it. What would I do specifically ? I'll leave that to the experts. But it looks like they will address it around the edges, with a few fixes, while preserving ownership for the qualified masses. I am skeptical this will put much of a dent in the violent crime rate but willing to give it a try. Ultimately, I think there will still be too many cracks in preventing the "bad guys" from getting guns (whether through legal or illegal purchase, or theft). How do you identify a "bad guy" with an inclination for violence but no record ? How do you stop such a person from stealing a gun when there are so many guns out there, sometimes owned by a family member ? So ultimately, a broad ban on guns may be needed, and I would strongly support it.

What should we do about these Gangs?

[url]http://www.hbo.com/#/documentaries/witness-south-sudan[/url]

KONY! KONY! How do you Feel about Him?

Guns unlimited!

Kill! Kill that Mother Fu__ker! That is how I Feel!

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69; 430993]What should we do about these Gangs?

[url]http://www.hbo.com/#/documentaries/witness-south-sudan[/url]

KONY! KONY! How do Feel?

Guns unlimited!

Kill! Kill that Mother Fu__ker! That is how I Feel![/QUOTE]Hire me!

I will do these "on the house!"

TL