American Politics during the Bush Presidency

[QUOTE=Darkme]This statement reveals a deep ignorance of the history, values and institutions of the USA. Setting aside the issue of whether or not socialism is good or bad, it's simply not part of the American character in any meaningful way.

A more reasoned prescription would take this into account.[/QUOTE]If you speak with many / most Republicans, they think we are already borderline socialistic as they are against Medicare and Social Security and to a point, they are correct. So in reality, there is socialism in 'American character'.

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Miami Bob]

The Republican party has been taken over by the far right wing and lost it's balance.[/QUOTE]So true, which is probably one of the reasons I am no longer a Republican-I am sure there are other reasons, as well.

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Jackson]Stowe,

That's funny, because this is exactly how I think you see the world.

Thanks,

Jackson.

=========================================

"[I]It must be nice being an appeaser. You get to muddle along with your head in the sand while other good people, in the process of keeping the world safe for themselves, will inadvertently keep it safe for you too.[/i]"[/QUOTE]The fact that you think I live in such a world gives more credence of your delusional state as you still think Bush has done a good job, while almost EVERY SINGLE survey show that ABOUT 75% of the US does not. So who is in touch with reality and who is not?

It is more likely that the 25% that continue to think he has done a good job are less in tune with reality than the 75% (and something like 85% of the rest of the world) that think otherwise.

It is EXTREMELY likely that there are more people in the world that are in touch with reality than not, so by looking at those numbers (which you claim to do- but of course, that is only true when the numbers support your re-conceived ideas) the majority are in touch with reality and the minority are not-in this instance.

So 75% of the US (and perhaps 85% of the world) see Bush the same as I do.

And yes, sometimes what the majority think is the correct perspective-as it is in this case. Bush is the worst president in history!

It was you who posted a reply to one of my posts about 3 weeks ago regarding the US economy, that we were all overreactive to a 'little economic problem', or something to that effect. That is definitely being out of touch with reality. And I know it is a lack of awareness of the situation.

Suerte.

Stowe

Jackson-

You should start behaving more like the Larry Flynt of Argentina "a smut peddler who cares" rather than as the Rush Limbaugh of Argentina role that you so obviously enjoy playing. If the people and views you politically support ever got full control of the United States they would put people like you out of business and in the big house. Let's not fool anyone here, didn't we all move to Argentina because its a socially free, liberal place where perverts (like Jackson, myself, and probably all the resident mongers on this board) are welcome. George W. Bush's neocon movement in fact hate people like you so why do you support them?

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[QUOTE=Rock Harders]George W. Bush's neocon movement in fact hate people like you so why do you support them?[/QUOTE]Rock,

Because we're in a war, and I want us to win.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Stowe]The fact that you think I live in such a world gives more credence of your delusional state as you still think Bush has done a good job, while almost EVERY SINGLE survey show that ABOUT 75% of the US does not. So who is in touch with reality and who is not?[/QUOTE]Stowe,

I didn't say that George Bush did a good job.

What I said was that he did a good job on the two issues I specified.

Thanks,

Jackson

He has a different point of view. Respect it. He does not try to convert you and you don't have to convert him. He sincerely believes and you are not going to change his world view. He provides us this forum at very little or no costs. So cut him some slack.

I don't aggree with any of his politics, but I like and respect him. This is what freedom of speach and democracy is all about. I like and respect sid and obama--who I will vote for almost surely----makes sid absolutely crazy. Sid and I will cancel out each others votes while we share a bottle of wine and talk about the many areas where we can have an enjoyable discussion. I will hope to call both sid and jackson friends for many years and through many elections.

Bob

[QUOTE=Jackson]Rock,

Because we're in a war, and I want us to win.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]I like you as well but you were a rabid neo-con before the war, and in this thread just a week or two ago you asked the question "what exactly makes you believe shrub is a bad president" sic (sic means I'm using quotes but I'm quoting you for context not word for word right?

I don't remember ever reading one word by you that could ever be construed as criticism of this current regime. I respect your right to believe what you want but your refusal to see what perceive as reality was why I stopped responding to your posts in the political forum a few weeks ago. However I can't accept "Because we're in a war and I want us to win" as the reason you still continue to espouse the party line.

You're a true believer brother, let your freak flag fly.

I served in this countries armed forces my patriotism is above reproach, we can't win this war Jax, we couldn't win it from the beginning. The best we can hope for is a withdrawal with a semblance of honor, real honor will be impossible but we might be able to double speak our way into some.

For your info, I have always registered democrat. I was an officer in one of the largest democractic party clubs in NYC before moving to Miami. I spent many years stuffing envelopes and going door to door. I believed in our system and I know that my guys will not win 100% of the time. I do not vote democractic all the time. In florida I have nothing to do with local politics and should probably switch because the republicans control this state at the state and local level. The democractic party better reflects my world view and personal beliefs.

I work 60+ hours per week and do not have the time to google everything that I write about and my memory is far from perfect. I am a capitalist and want to be paid to work.

Without political connections, Neil and Barbara could have both been arrested in the aftermath of Ronnie's great and noble experiment in not regulating savings and loans, but instead leaving it to the invisible hand of the marketplace and the tax payers to bail out the aftermath.

An attorney that I knew killed himself when the regulators came into the savings and loan mess and his largest client's CEO went to prison.

I voted for poppy Bush because the Democratic alternative did not effectively do the job. Bush was better for the country. Today I will be proud to cancel out Sid's vote for McCain.

Kitty kelley wrote an interesting book about the Bush family--back four generations. The sections on W are not very complimentary. Jeb is the wonderkid--smart, hard working, articulate and far to the right of W or his dad. His governorship here was like a dictatorship.

[QUOTE=Sidney]Now isn't this something to think about!

If Barack Obama would apply for a job with the FBI or with the Secret Service, he would be disqualified because of his past association with William Ayers, a known terrorist.

If he is elected President he would not qualify to be his own body guard!

(and the majority of the people don't care)[/QUOTE]The reason McOldguy is harping on this connection with Willam Ayers is because they are desperate. Ayers teaches education at the University of Illinois. He is not a "know terrorist" he is a known former militant, or as we would say today domestic terrorist from the 60's. Today he is a teacher of education.

They served on a panel for school reform, Obama recieved 200 bucks from him in his first run for office, but the last thing, well this could be important. They did have coffee together once, do you think they planned the events of 9-11, it was before that date. Perhaps they concocted the plan to bomb the Cole. Maybe they traded napalm recipes, what common garden tools make the best shrapnel? They did live in the same neighborhood, maybe they had a connecting tunnel between their basements and made pipe bombs for the IRA. Gimmy a fucking break.

McOldguy and the Beauty Queen, behind like a million points, are throwing all the pasta at the refrigerator praying something sticks. My own brother. Slightly to the right of Jackson, has even seen the light and will be voting for the "Obamanation." Unless Diebold Election Systems can deliver as promised your cause is lost brother. At least we will have a bootielicious first lady, that woman HAS to have some Dominican in her with back like that, there is always a silver lining brother.

Mongers-

Daddy Rulz has revealed the source of the ridiculous scorn that Sidney has for Obama! SIDNEY just cannot bear the thought of a black man fucking a black women, as SIDNEY considers all black women as his turf and personal property, and resents anyone other than himself enjoying a women from his personal "stable".

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]I don't remember ever reading one word by you that could ever be construed as criticism of this current regime.[/QUOTE]Here's one: I hold George Bush directly responsible for allowing this recent economic mess to develop. Sure, the Dems were the underlying cause for what happened by deregulating Fred and Fanny and pushing them to buy questionable loans, but it happened on George Bush's watch, and as the Captain of the ship, it was his responsibility to identify and prevent the problem. In this, he failed miserably.

Thanks,

Jackson

Syd, old sport,

I see you are still bereft of the virtues of just posting a link to an article and enticing people to go check it out by virtue of your own erudite commentary.

Like this:

[url]http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/12/pittsburgh-paper-picks-obama-pans-on-mccainpalin-ticket/[/url]

Pittsburgh Post Gazette slams McCain / Palin and endorses Barack Obama.

Here's an excerpt of Pittsburgh's endorsement of Barack Obama.

" It is about the strengths of Barack Obama, whose rise to prominence is not a fluke or national infatuation but the consequence of his remarkable skills — a keen intellect, noble intentions and the wit and grace to express them in ways that have inspired millions across the country. He has a rare gift exactly suited to the fearful times — he knows the language of reassurance and hope.

If his were just empty words, this would be just another cheap political gift. But what he says is carefully considered. In the debates and on the hustings, Mr. Obama has been the voice of moderation, combining common sense and compassion on issue after issue. When the subject turns to foreign policy, supposedly Mr. McCain's strong suit, Mr. Obama gives no indication that he will have to learn on the job."

Read it and weep baby.

It looks like mccain has given up on miami--obama is running 5 tv spots for every mccain spot. I usually watch the busniness channels and the Sunday morning political / talk shows had zero mccain spots in miami.

Pulll a boone pickens. Boone financed the swift boat tv propaganda. Go drop us$10, 000, 000. If you really believe what you are writing.

Yesterday, McCain said that Obama is not a terorist or an arab. He said this a a town hall meeting when one of his supporters was talking like you about her fears of Obama.

Ah Sidney, finally the "October Suprise"

HANNITY and Jackson should be room mates, since there always in bed together.

Exon

[QUOTE=Sidney]Already, many (most) are weeping as they see the huge declines in their ''funds'', their businesses, their properties, etc as the markets discount the Obomination's election. But the ''naive'' supporters, propagandized by his rhetoric, will be the weeping the most!

Old Sport, Sid[/QUOTE]Sydney, old sport,

I used to think you were just obsessed and wandering in your own Dali like desert, an empty landscape with giant birth certificates and statues of god fearing blacks pledging to war torn American flags but now it seems you're just a robotic McCain disciple making things up (lying) to beat the band. ". Markets discount the Obama election" No wonder we're in this mess, the Repub financial "wizards" can't shoot straight and had to be lead by the English Prime Minister to a "bailout" solution.

[QUOTE=Miami Bob]He has a different point of view. Respect it. He does not try to convert you and you don't have to convert him. He sincerely believes and you are not going to change his world view. He provides us this forum at very little or no costs. So cut him some slack.

I don't aggree with any of his politics, but I like and respect him. This is what freedom of speach and democracy is all about. I like and respect sid and obama--who I will vote for almost surely----makes sid absolutely crazy. Sid and I will cancel out each others votes while we share a bottle of wine and talk about the many areas where we can have an enjoyable discussion. I will hope to call both sid and jackson friends for many years and through many elections.

Bob[/QUOTE]I've thought a lot about this post and in the end I think you're misguided. This isn't the Buddy Forum. Although it doesn't have to be uncivil, this is about ideas on American Politics and although I also like and have reason to admire Syd and Jackson on other counts these points of view need to be called out for what they are. They are the lines of thought and advocacy that have gotten the US into the terrible position it has developed over the past 8 years and continued to support it. You cannot sweep this stuff under the rug. They cannot offer a balanced and thoughtful point of view, only a fringe partisan view. No one visiting this forum, which represents in it's own way American expats in Argentina, should come away thinking that these are acceptable American points of view. More articulate thinkers than myself need to keep confronting these corrupt ideas. This is the time, they're losing control and need all the help available rushing them out the door and back into the shadows.

[QUOTE=Rasmussen Poll]: 55% Expect Obama Victory, 15% Expect McCain Victory.

In a poll conducted Oct. 10, 55% of the voters now expect Obama to win the election and 15% expect McCain to win it. In mid-September, these numbers were 35% and 34% , respectively. What a difference an economic crisis makes. Clearly the voters have judged Obama better than McCain on the economy. In retrospect, having McCain suspend his campaign and parachute into Washington to take over the bailout bill and then have the House Republicans vote against the bill by 2 to 1 didn't make him look like a leader. Only after he got out of the way so Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT) and Reo. Barney Frank (D-MA) could craft a new bill did it pass.[/QUOTE]Regards,

BM.

On the other hand, by November 2004 the Republicans had already fucked everything up badly enough it was intellectually inconceivable they would win the election, and look what happened. Go figure. You get media appealing to the lowest common denominator, popular culture appealing to the lowest common denominator, education appealing to the lowest common denominator, and you can see what the results are.

[QUOTE=Sidney]I don't remember any of you Obomination, propagandized liberals agreeing with me![/QUOTE]This is one Obaminating, propagandizing conservative leftist who does.

El Sid-I want to give you a Rorschach test. I'm betting every response will be either "pussy" or "big dicked jigaboo".;)

[QUOTE=Jackson]Stowe,

I didn't say that George Bush did a good job.

What I said was that he did a good job on the two issues I specified.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Jackson,

What a canard. You are now trying to re-write your words. About 4 weeks ago you responded to a post by posting-and I am quoting almost exactly as you posted it:

"another of his many accomplishments". You did not specify only 2 accomplishments but implied there have been many.

Now that shit is hitting the fan from so many directions, you are changing your position-or actually stating you never indicating something that you, in fact, did.

You have done nothing but praise Bush. I have not seen a single post from you criticizing even a single thing about the bushman.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Jackson]Here's one: I hold George Bush directly responsible for allowing this recent economic mess to develop. Sure, the Dems were the underlying cause for what happened by deregulating Fred and Fanny and pushing them to buy questionable loans, but it happened on George Bush's watch, and as the Captain of the ship, it was his responsibility to identify and prevent the problem. In this, he failed miserably.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]I see it is the Dems that want total deregulation. Another fantasy as deregulation has been on the Rep platform for decades and NOT on the Dem platform. Besides, couldn't the Reps in the Senate have stopped it if they wished? And Bush could have vetoed it, which he didn't.

Prior to voting in November, I'd encourage concerned US citizens to examine the events surrounding the 2004 Madrid bombings and the election that took place a couple of days thereafter. I had the misfortune to fly through there from the UK to Argentina on the day of the bombing, but the good fortune to be only minimally delayed. I don't want to bias anyone. Just check it out for yourselves: what were the issues in that election, what effect the bombings had, and what happened in the subsequent election. I see a lot of parallels.

[QUOTE=Exon123]Ah Sidney, finally the "October Suprise"

HANNITY and Jackson should be room mates, since there always in bed together.

Exon[/QUOTE]Exon,

For the record, I do not like Sean Hannity as a news commentator (I don't know him personally, so I cannot express an opinion on him as a person) To me, he's a boorish, incessantly barking chihuahua.

Therefor, I'd appreciate it if you didn't make such inaccurate and ignorant statements about my political beliefs.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Stowe]I see it is the Dems that want total deregulation. Another fantasy as deregulation has been on the Rep platform for decades and NOT on the Dem platform. Besides, couldn't the Reps in the Senate have stopped it if they wished? And Bush could have vetoed it, which he didn't.[/QUOTE]Stowe,

What color is the sky in your world?

The primary cause of the current mortgage meltdown was the Democrat's strategy of pushing Freddy and Fanny to lower the standards for the "conforming" loans that they would buy from the loan originators, said lowering specifically to "encourage" home ownership by previously unqualified applicants who ulitimately proved that they were incapable of making the mortage payments.

That's the deregulation that I'm referring to.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Bacchus9]Cannot sweep this stuff under the rug. They cannot offer a balanced and thoughtful point of view, only a fringe partisan view. No one visiting this forum, which represents in it's own way American expats in Argentina, should come away thinking that these are acceptable American points of view. More articulate thinkers than myself need to keep confronting these corrupt ideas. This is the time, they're losing control and need all the help available rushing them out the door and back into the shadows.[/QUOTE]That's exactly how I feel about all the liberal drivel that's posted here.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson]Rock,

Because we're in a war, and I want us to win.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Jackson,

You run a good website - it is a shame about your politics.

The United States Government is about to spend over $700 Billion in a bailout (or whatever you would like to call it)

This is irreversible (at least in your lifetime)

The reality is you have lost the war.

The Reagan revolution is totally DEAD.

Cheers,

Inargentina.

[QUOTE=Darkme]This statement reveals a deep ignorance of the history, values and institutions of the USA. Setting aside the issue of whether or not socialism is good or bad, it's simply not part of the American character in any meaningful way.

A more reasoned prescription would take this into account.[/QUOTE]Darkme.

Judging by the proposed $700 Billion bailout it appears the American character is changing.

If Sweden does a bank bailout it is socialism. If Americans do a bailout it is not socialism.

Or is it just that Americans refuse to call it socialism.

The point is that America needs to and is rapidly moving to the Left.

Cheers,

Inargentina

The actual final figure is going to surpass 1 trillion dollars. There will be plenty of supplemental bills and aide packages to various corporations tacked on.

We all have different points of view and differing opinions, that is part of what makes America so great.

Regards,

BM

[QUOTE=InArgentina]The United States Government is about to spend over $700 Billion in a bailout [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Punter 127][I]"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Except of course when my bank is about to bust.

Then watch these 'No government types' cry like babies for help from the government.

No Government -deregulated economics just doesn't work.

It is about getting the right balance between the Private and Government sectors.

It is about good governement rather than no government.

[QUOTE=InArgentina]

Then watch these 'No government types' cry like babies for help from the government.

No Government -deregulated economics just doesn't work.

It is about getting the right balance between the Private and Government sectors.

It is about good governement rather than no government.[/QUOTE]Define good government?

[QUOTE=Darkme]Define good government?[/QUOTE]A watering hole for the well to do in Austin, Texas. There is a sign over the entrance "No mans honor or fortune is safe when the Legislature is in session."

There is no good government only less bad government.

[QUOTE=Jackson]Stowe,

What color is the sky in your world?

The primary cause of the current mortgage meltdown was the Democrat's strategy of pushing Freddy and Fanny to lower the standards for the "conforming" loans that they would buy from the loan originators, said lowering specifically to "encourage" home ownership by previously unqualified applicants who ulitimately proved that they were incapable of making the mortage payments.

That's the deregulation that I'm referring to.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Actually, that's a popular talking point against Democrats but apparently not true. Here's the nut of the reason followed by a link to the article at McClatchy News:

" Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics."

[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/104/story/53802.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Sidney]I will not vote for either. The Obomination is such a fraud, it is unbelievable to me that his supporters are so rabid! They even resort to unsupportable charges against me. I ask these men to prove their groundless drivel!-------- The 3 primary problems of the USA are the sub-prime loans, the Wars, and the costs associated with the illegals. All were ''engineered'' and supported by both parties! Without these problems and costs, other necessary corrections could easily be financed, such as health care, education, infrastructure, tax policies, more.[/QUOTE]Syd, old sport,

When we see you posting multi page talking point pages about Palin and McCain's lack of qualifications for the position they're running for we might take you at your word. Until then, we can tell you're lying because your lips are moving.

In addition it'll be easier for you, no need to dig around for Andy Martin's or Hannity's talking points of the lunatic fringe. You can just copy and paste from any credible news source. They're out there in plain view.