American Politics during the Bush Presidency

Don't confuse him with facts. Just let him keep believing his illusions. No doubt he will ignore the McClatchy report as being a liberal rag specifically because it doesn't agree with his preconceived ideas.

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Bacchus9]Actually, that's a popular talking point against Democrats but apparently not true. Here's the nut of the reason followed by a link to the article at McClatchy News:

" Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren't true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

Subprime lending offered high-cost loans to the weakest borrowers during the housing boom that lasted from 2001 to 2007. Subprime lending was at its height from 2004 to 2006.

Federal Reserve Board data show that:

* More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

* Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

* Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics."

[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/104/story/53802.html[/url][/QUOTE]

The TV has been on for about 4 hours while I do various things half paying attention:

Obama at least 10 commercials.

McCain zero.

Has McCain given up on southeast florida: Miami / Ft Lauderdale? Or is he low on $$$$$? Maybe the state republican party has already fixed the election, like.

2000? So why waste money?

[QUOTE=InArgentina][QUOTE=Punter 127][i]"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. "

Except of course when my bank is about to bust.

Then watch these 'No government types' cry like babies for help from the government.

No Government.deregulated economics just doesn't work.

It is about getting the right balance between the Private and Government sectors.

It is about good governement rather than no government. [/QUOTE]Who do you know that has lost money in an American bank "bust " that kept their deposits within the limits of the FDIC?

You seem to know little about the American system, but I would like to know which superior socialist government system you think the United States should pattern itself after?

============================================

[quote]"I had a copy of the Soviet Constitution and I read it with great interest. And I saw all kinds of terms in there that sound just exactly like our own: 'Freedom of assembly' and 'freedom of speech' and so forth. Of course, they don't allow them to have those things, but they're in there in the constitution. But I began to wonder about the other constitutions.- everyone has one.- and our own, and why so much emphasis on ours. And then I found out, and the answer was very simple.- that's why you don't notice it at first. But it is so great that it tells the entire difference. All those other constitutions are documents that say, 'We, the government, allow the people the following rights, ' and our Constitution says 'We the People, allow the government the following privileges and rights. ' We give our permission to government to do the things that it does. And that's the whole story of the difference.- why we're unique in the world and why no matter what our troubles may be, we're going to overcome. "-- Ronald Reagan [/quote]

Why didn't President Raygun ever wear a flag pin? Was he embarrassed to be an American? Perhaps he was a secret Muslim. Seems very unpatriotic to me.

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz] Whats up with the Gipper.

Why didn't President Raygun ever wear a flag pin? Was he embarrassed to be an American? Perhaps he was a secret Muslim. Seems very unpatriotic to me.[/QUOTE]"There you go again."……. Daddy, “I'm not going to exploit for political purposes my opponents youth and inexperience."

Early voting started in my home state yesterday, so I did my duty and cast my vote.

I should be able to vote everyday between now and the election, thanks ACORN!

===============================================

[I]To quote a famous Chicagoan "vote early and vote often"![/i]

[QUOTE=Punter 127]Early voting started in my home state yesterday, so I did my duty and cast my vote.

I should be able to vote everyday between now and the election, thanks ACORN!

===============================================

[I]To quote a famous Chicagoan "vote early and vote often"![/i][/QUOTE]McOldGuy might win if you could.

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz] Well then.

McOldGuy might win if you could.[/QUOTE] "There you go again."……Spoken like a true Obama Sheeple.

I cast my vote against the messiah and socialism, as I refuse to bow down to Obama, but that doesn ’t necessarily equal a vote for McCain.

=================================================

[I] The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -- Thomas Jefferson [/i]

[I] The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation. -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin [/i]

[QUOTE=Miami Bob]Maybe the state republican party has already fixed the election, like.

2000? So why waste money?[/QUOTE]And 2004!

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]McOldGuy might win if you could.[/QUOTE]I think you are not being fair to McCain by calling him McOldGuy. I think a more accurate name is McAngryOldGuy.

Suerte.

Stowe

SF is a city that provides so many interesting pieces of news.

First, they are trying to prevent / outlaw the ROTC from all schools which I think is absolutely wrong and contrary to freedom of choice.

Then then are planning to rename a sewer plant to be named Bush Sewer facility. That is soooo appropriate as the only thing that is more full of shit than a sewer plant is George Bush.

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Punter 127]Who do you know that has lost money in an American bank "bust " that kept their deposits within the limits of the FDIC?[/quote]Punter 127 or should I call you Comrade? Finally you see the light.

The FDIC is a GOVERNMENT agency set up to protect depositors from PRIVATE banks failing.

Your question simply proves my point. The Government needs to get involved.

[QUOTE=Punter 127]". But I would like to know which superior socialist government system you think the United States should pattern itself after?"[/quote]Why not borrow ideas from different countries? You have already adopted a Swedish style bailout of the banks. Actually in the long run Sweden is not a bad model.

The USSA must care for the healthcare needs and education needs of millions of poor Mexicans etc that are migrating to the country. This is a huge task that can only be dealt with by a Government willing to get involved.

Do you want migrants to learn English - who is going to teach them? McDonalds? The local drug gang?

I say be compassionate and embrace socialism.

The USSA needs to reduce its dependence on oil. Again the Government needs to get involved.

The USSA needs to address Climate Change with greater urgency. Again the Government needs to get more actively involved.

[QUOTE=Stowe]I think you are not being fair to McCain by calling him McOldGuy. I think a more accurate name is McAngryOldGuy.

Suerte.

Stowe[/QUOTE]There's some more of that famous liberal name-calling.

Can't you guys make a point without personally denigrating people?

Apparently not.

Thanks,

Jackson

I find your post totally ludicrous and really unworthy of a reply, however being the tolerant and compassionate person that I am, I ’m going to reply anyway. (This time)

[QUOTE=InArgentina] Punter 127 or should I call you Comrade? Finally you see the light. [/quote] You can call me anything you like from the safety of your computer, but don ’t be fooled by my mild-mannered demeanor; you would be [b] gravely mistaken [/b]to think I won’t stand and fight for freedom!

[QUOTE=InArgentina]The FDIC is a GOVERNMENT agency set up to protect depositors from PRIVATE banks failing. [/quote]FDIC has been part of the American system for 75 years, it’s nothing new.

[QUOTE=InArgentina]Your question simply proves my point. The Government needs to get involved. [/quote]Wrong again, we’re a free country that was founded on the concept of limited government, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have laws and limited regulations.

[QUOTE=InArgentina]Why not borrow ideas from different countries? You have already adopted a Swedish style bailout of the banks. Actually in the long run Sweden is not a bad model. [/quote] El Alamo in the stock market thread said it best; “The U. S. Economy is the race horse and will should always do well relative to other economies.” I agree with him and I think it also applies to the USA in general.

BTW I did not favor the bank bailout, but please if you really like the Swedish system so much feel free to catch the next flight. I would offer to contribute to the cost, but that would be a little to socialist for me.

[QUOTE=InArgentina] The USSA must care for the healthcare needs and education needs of millions of poor Mexicans etc that are migrating to the country. This is a huge task that can only be dealt with by a Government willing to get involved. [/quote]The hell you say, I agree the government needs to get involved, but what they need to do is close the borders and send these illegals back where they came from. We don’t owe these people a damn thing, not one red cent!

[QUOTE=InArgentina] Do you want migrants to learn English - who is going to teach them? McDonalds? The local drug gang? [/quote]I want to send them back where they came from, if they are illegally in the USA. Learning English should be a condition of gaining citizenship, but not the government’s responsibility to teach it.

If I migrate to Sweden or Argentina or any other country will any of their governments take the responsibility to teach me their language? If they will lets send them our illegals.

[QUOTE=InArgentina] I say be compassionate and embrace socialism. [/quote] Yes Sirree Bob, that’s going to happen!

I hope you and your socialist buddies hold your breath waiting for me to “embrace socialism”!

Socialism is great for sheeple who are unable or unwilling to make decisions about their own destiny and those that need someone to take them by the hand and show them the way.

My forefathers came to the USA to escape government and religious oppression, and my family members have fought to defend our freedom, (and the freedom of others) I plan to continue supporting that family tradition.

[QUOTE=InArgentina] The USSA needs to reduce its dependence on oil. Again the Government needs to get involved. [/quote]Government involvement is the reason we’re dependent on foreign oil, when it becomes cost effective private enterprise will end that dependency.

[QUOTE=InArgentina]The USSA needs to address Climate Change with greater urgency. Again the Government needs to get more actively involved. [/quote]I think we have a thread for this subject and I’m not going to debate it here.

[b]I’m a flag waving, tax paying United States Citizen, and I’m proud of it! With all it’s imperfections our system is still the best system in the world, bar none! [/b]

I find it interesting that you seem to always speak of the United States as a third party, so that brings a burning question to mind; Are you a United States Citizen?

Joe the plumber is saying things that most of us would be afraid to say such as progressive taxation is not fair.

Joe won't say who he is going to vote for but I doubt there are many people as astute as Joe

[QUOTE=El Alamo]Joe the plumber is saying things that most of us would be afraid to say such as progressive taxation is not fair.

Joe won't say who he is going to vote for but I doubt there are many people as astute as Joe[/QUOTE]As reported today, Joe "the plumber" is not a licensed plumber, owes back taxes and says he "feels like Britney Spears". Joe the non plumber is an attention seeking non entity.

[QUOTE=Doggboy]As reported today, Joe "the plumber" is not a licensed plumber, owes back taxes and says he "feels like Britney Spears". Joe the non plumber is an attention seeking non entity.[/QUOTE]I could be dead wrong but I would bet the ranch that Obama and his henchman are trying to destroy Joe's credibility solely because Joe hasn't bought into the philosophy of "THE ONE"

I have owed back taxes and I doubt that Joe is working as an unlicensed plumber - at least I hope not.

[QUOTE=El Alamo]I could be dead wrong but I would bet the ranch the Obama and his henchman are trying to destroy Joe's credibility solely because Joe hasn't bought into the philosophy of "THE ONE"

I have owed back taxes and I doubt that Joe is working as an unlicensed plumber.

THE[/QUOTE]EA-you can check the facts. He is not a licensed plumber and according to records has not even done an apprenticeship. How do you destroy the credibility of someone who has no credibility?

Cheers

My apologies. I think we should "tar and feather" Joe the Plumber.

P. S. I hope you know this is all a joke. I don't think it makes much difference who our next President is. We will survive.

[QUOTE=Jackson]There's some more of that famous liberal name-calling.

Can't you guys make a point without personally denigrating people?

Apparently not.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Obamanation.

I noticed you didn't call this "famous conservative name calling." I started calling the Distinguished Gentleman from Arizona McOldGuy in response to Sids continual denigration (without comment in blue ink I might add) of Obama. I must admit though my friends, Stowe (that disgusting motherfucker) is right, McAngryOldGuy is much better.

I empasize with Joe the Plumber. He is trying to start his own business. He doen't have a lot of resources. Making money is a dream not a reality. The likliehood of success is remote.

Then some son of ***** like Obama, who has never even run a popsicle stand in his life, comes along and tells Joe that he is required to pay health insurance for his employees. Health benefits that Joe and Joe's family do not enjoy.

At the end of the day Joe can't afford to have employees and his employees not only don't have health insurance, they don't have a job.

This election is now a forgone conclusion. So maybe we can move on to the proverbial "morning after". Without question Barack and Joe will be the next Executive Branch heads.

With that in mind, can we discuss the possible social ramifications and civil unrest that might occur if on the morning of November 5th the Democrats are not successful. How could this occur:

- There may be enough closet racists around that are willing to answer the poll questions for Obama, but on ballot day just will not be able to pull the lever "correctly"

- The pollsters have eligible, registered, and "likely" voters. I can envision the poll takers today not even interviewing black voters, but simply checking the box for Obama - as he truly has 99.999% of the black vote in the bag. However, Minority and youth voters have a tendency to not actually turn up at the polls due to events like bad weather, lack of transportation, etc.

- The ACORN type of voter drive fraud can be a double edged sword. The very small "sample space" of the pollsters may not generate the accurate predictions of the past - given that many of the "registered" voters do NOT exist. Statistics is not my specialty, however seems that when they interview 500 Democrats those results are applied across the "registered" Democrat voter base.

Back to the real question:

Will there be burning neighborhoods and carnage in the streets on Nov. 5th if McOldAngry-WeakDicked Guy and the Hockey-Playing Pig with the lipstick are headed to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

Alan.

I think you are correct. If Obama cannot win this election with the economy trashed he cannot win any election.

Tomorrow you will read the latest Gallup poll Obama 49% McCain 47%

I agree this election should be in the bag for Obama.

However, the stock market is not going to fall much further. From here to the election the market will be more or less stable.

I personally am not sure who is the best candiate. I am not sure it is that important. We can live with either candidate.

I don't think Obama is a very appealing candidate. Hillary kicked his ass is almost every face to face contest I. E. Texas, Ohio, Pennsy lvania and probably New York and California but I am not sure about California.

This election should be in the bag for Obama but Obama is his own worst enemy I. E. He is not that appealing except for those who, for reasons unknown, consider him to be "THE ONE".

I don't think he is "The One" I just like that he answers questions in specific and not "I know how to fix the economy." "I know how to get Bin Laden." "I know how to relieve our dependence on foreign oil."

I admit to the fact that I've been a Dem all my life so I'm predisposed to liking him. I said a lot if it came to Hillary v McAngryOldGuy I would have voted for the plane crasher. However I think his campaign would have lost me even against Hillary. If the campaign didn't do it the beauty queen would have.

Don't know what will happen if McAngryOldGuy wins but I imagine the country will survive with either. He isn't shrub, anything will be an improvement.

[QUOTE=Doggboy]EA-you can check the facts. He is not a licensed plumber and according to records has not even done an apprenticeship. How do you destroy the credibility of someone who has no credibility?

Cheers[/QUOTE]Hi Guys,

First, As someone who actually knows something about contractor licensing, it's typical that only the owner of a general contracting or trade contracting company needs to hold a license. As I recall the details, Joe is currently an employee of the plumbing company that he wants to buy. Thus it's quite feasible that Joe does not currently hold a license, but that he does possess the necessary experience to qualify for licensure, and that he expects to stand for and pass the licensing exam at a later date.

Second, it's also a common practice for sellers of construction companies to stay on as the official license holder for a period of time after the actual sale, if for no other reason that the ensure that the projects in which they have pulled permits under their license number are correctly completed.

Third, in these modern times the concept of apprenticeships is pretty much passe.

Finally, does anyone actually know if the state in which Joe lives even requires licensing? 23 states in this country have no contractor licensing requirements.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson]There's some more of that famous liberal name-calling.

Can't you guys make a point without personally denigrating people?

Apparently not.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]NOPE!

Not in the case of McAngryOldGuy who initially promised to run a respectful campaign because he was 'honorable', then suddenly became a hypocrite and became nasty.

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]Obamanation.

I noticed you didn't call this "famous conservative name calling." I started calling the Distinguished Gentleman from Arizona McOldGuy in response to Sids continual denigration (without comment in blue ink I might add) of Obama. I must admit though my friends, Stowe (that disgusting motherfucker) is right, McAngryOldGuy is much better.[/QUOTE]Touche, although I personally prefer not to use derisive titles in either direction. Still, I'm also guilty in having referred to Obama as "The Messiah".

BTW, the blue ink is reserved solely for addressing issues related to forum administration.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]Obamanation.

I noticed you didn't call this "famous conservative name calling." I started calling the Distinguished Gentleman from Arizona McOldGuy in response to Sids continual denigration (without comment in blue ink I might add) of Obama. I must admit though my friends, Stowe (that disgusting motherfucker) is right, McAngryOldGuy is much better.[/QUOTE]DR, you sick fuck! You are so right about Jackson.

Jackson,

I guess it is ok to do name calling when it is attacking a politician you do not support but ok for someone you do support.


Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=El Alamo]Then some son of ***** like Obama, who has never even run a popsicle stand in his life, comes along and tells Joe that he is required to pay health insurance for his employees. Health benefits that Joe and Joe's family do not enjoy.

At the end of the day Joe can't afford to have employees and his employees not only don't have health insurance, they don't have a job.[/QUOTE]I have it on good authority that Obama (the winner) DID run a popsicle stand-and a lemonaid stand as well.

How the do you know every single experience he, or McCain, or anyone else, has had in there lives? No objectivity with you.

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]I don't think he is "The One" I just like that he answers questions in specific and not "I know how to fix the economy." "I know how to get Bin Laden." "I know how to relieve our dependence on foreign oil."

I admit to the fact that I've been a Dem all my life so I'm predisposed to liking him. I said a lot if it came to Hillary v McAngryOldGuy I would have voted for the plane crasher. However I think his campaign would have lost me even against Hillary. If the campaign didn't do it the beauty queen would have.

Don't know what will happen if McAngryOldGuy wins but I imagine the country will survive with either. He isn't shrub, anything will be an improvement.[/QUOTE]No president has the power to make serious changes to our society (other than make war) Because of the special interest groups Congress and any and all presidents are too afraid to address real changes. Like addressing the debt, Social Security, Medicare, the energy crisis, climate change.

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Jackson]Touche, although I personally prefer not to use derisive titles in either direction. Still, I'm also guilty in having referred to Obama as "The Messiah".

BTW, the blue ink is reserved solely for addressing issues related to forum administration.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Never noticed that before. Jax this is your ball and bat brother do as you wish. As one of the few moderates on this board though I would have been remiss in ignoring it.

Neither " joe " nor the owner of the business have a contracting or plumbing license. The state does not require them to have one, But the counties in which they work do. " Joe " also lied about being a union member. When reporters contacted the union which " joe " said he was a member of, they said they never heard of him.

When asked about it further, joe basically said it was a dream of his. The more I hear about the whole exchange the more ridiculous and contrived it sounds.

It's like me saying to Obama " You know, I am not currently a billionaire nor do I have the prospects to be one any time soon but I am planning on being a billionaire one day, does that mean I will get taxed more? ".

Are you kidding me?

Regards,

BM

It is not clear whether Joe the Plumber, if and when he owns his own business, would do better under Obama's tax plan or under McCain's tax plan. In all liklihood it probably won't make much difference to Joe.

What is unsettling is the tendancy of Obama's campaign to engage in character assassination of anyone, like Joe the Plumber, who is not buying the idea that Obama is "THE ONE"

[QUOTE=El Alamo]What is unsettling is the tendancy of Mccain's campaign to engage in character assassination of Obama, who is not buying the idea that Mccain is "THE ONE"[/QUOTE]Co-Sign.

Regards,

BM

[QUOTE=BadMan]Neither " joe " nor the owner of the business have a contracting or plumbing license. The state does not require them to have one, But the counties in which they work do. " Joe " also lied about being a union member. When reporters contacted the union which " joe " said he was a member of, they said they never heard of him.

When asked about it further, joe basically said it was a dream of his. The more I hear about the whole exchange the more ridiculous and contrived it sounds.

It's like me saying to Obama " You know, I am not currently a billionaire nor do I have the prospects to be one any time soon but I am planning on being a billionaire one day, does that mean I will get taxed more? ".

Are you kidding me?

Regards,

BM.[/QUOTE]Exactly. A wannabe and nothing more. In his short time in the media glare he has referenced Britney Spears, Matt Damon and Sammy Davis Jr. Celebrity status seems to be more on his mind than anything else. Another "man in the street" joke brought to us by the desperate McCain camp. Pretty funny really.

To me Joe the plumber is irrelevant, Joe ’s not running for president and we are seeing an attempt to kill the messenger. Even if what Joe said was put to Obama as a hypothetical, (which it kind of was) what ’s important is how Obama replied;

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it ’s good for everybody,".

Barack [strike] Hussein [/strike] Steve Obama

As I have posted before, I think we should "tar and feather" Joe the Plumber.

The nerve of Joe to question the tax plan of "THE ONE"

[QUOTE=Stowe]No president has the power to make serious changes to our society (other than make war) Because of the special interest groups Congress and any and all presidents are too afraid to address real changes. Like addressing the debt, Social Security, Medicare, the energy crisis, climate change.

Suerte.

Stowe[/QUOTE]I agree, and so for me the decision boils down to this issue:

Who is best qualified to be the Commander in Chief?

John McCain: Annapolis graduate, Naval officer, aviator, former POW, 30 years of foreign policy experience.

Barak Obama: None of the above.

Thanks,

Jackson

BTW, if you don't think it takes some stones to land a jet on the deck of an aircraft carrier, then you should talk to somebody who has done it. That group would not include a certain college professor.

Irish betting company settles bets on Obama early:

[url]http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24511776-29677,00.html[/url]

Nice news for Obama supporters, but if I was a betting man I would wager that the owner of Paddy Power is a fan of Obama. Good on ya though!