American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Sidney]A Bloomberg study indicates it will take 6-11 years to regain all the jobs lost since the beginning of the recession! In all the economic recoveries since WWII, the total recoveries of jobs averaged 2 years. But all of those were accelerated because the USA had manufacturing. O has further eliminated manufacturing (I. E. GM and C and related businesses) CHANGE! You got it!------Sad Sid[/QUOTE]According to Sidney, in ten short months Obama has single-handedly been able to destroy US manufacturing. Gee I thought the twenty years of free trade policies championed by the Right played a role, but what do I know?

The tax increases are not news, only the details. If this is true, it sounds like a well thought-out plan. There are some very smart people in this administration.

Sidney,

Since you can find nothing better to do than rip apart the policies of the Obama administration and complain about the overpriced food and poor service everywhere in Buenos Aires, please enlighten us as to where we would be if that true brain trust, the McCain-Palin ticket, had won the election back in November 2008. What would that true genius, John McCain, have come up with to turn around what is clearly the comeuppance of decades of unsustainable policies? I am sure Sarah Palin, who has proven herself about as intelligent as your neighborhood Wal-Mart cashier, would be contributing a lot toward elaborate economic policies that would sweep in after less than a year and save the day for all of us.

The bottom line here is that the only fixes that can save the USA now are draconian austerity measures that nobody has the balls to talk about and are unfortunately politically taboo. Unsustainable policies led to a fiery crash and the only option now is to plan for the softest landing in order to preserve political position and office. This is almost like Argentina in early 2002, except at least Lavagna implemented austerity measures in their case (the dual budget and balance of payment surpluses) until Nestor fired him and flushed everything down the toilet. The USA has become so de-industrialized that almost the only economic activities outside the public sector are agriculture, services, and computer engineering (which will be done in India soon enough) What is the answer Sidney?

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[QUOTE=Rock Harders]Since you can find nothing better to do than rip apart the policies[/QUOTE]You are being too generous! All Sidney does is post news stories and then tack on his own "Oh no the sky is falling!" warning with exclamation marks. LOL.

Still, I am glad I could make him laugh.

[QUOTE=Rock Harders]please enlighten us as to where we would be if that true brain trust, the McCain-Palin ticket, had won the election back in November 2008.[/QUOTE]It's not about brains, it's about experience.

Anyway, since you're lobbing softballs today...

1. We wouldn't have pissed away 780 billion dollars of borrowed money with nothing to show for it.

2. We'd be admiring the results of a military surge in Afghanistan that would have been initiated months ago.

3. We wouldn't be embroiled in a derisive national argument about a fabricated health insurance "emergency", and would instead be engaged in finding a sensible, bipartisan solution to which everyone could agree.

4. We'd be watching the economy begin to recover as the Q1 and Q2 tax cuts were stimulating business activity.

Oh yeah, we'd also be enjoying a stronger dollar.

Thanks,

Jackson

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For the record, I am [u]NOT[/u] a Rebublican, and I am [u]NOT[/u] a conservative.

- I am [u]against[/u] the death penalty.
- I am [u]against[/u] [u]any[/u] government support of religious organizations.
- I am [u]for[/u] the legalization of recreational drugs.
- I am [u]for[/u] the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am [u]for[/u] a woman's right to choose.
- I am [u]for[/u] comprehensive sex education.
- I am [u]for[/u] a foreign guest worker program.
- I am [u]for[/u] a universal flat tax on [u]EVERYONE'S[/u] income.
- I am [u]for[/u] health [u]INSURANCE[/u] reform.
- I am [u]for[/u] health [u]JUSTICE[/u] reform.

I am a member of the Libertian Party, registered as an Independent.

Jackson,

How are you going to throw those assumptions out there without backing up a single one with some evidence, or at least policy proposals made by the McCain-Palin dynamic duo? What exact experiences do either McCain and or Palin have that would lead you to believe they would come up with superior economic policies? McCain was mediocre at everything he ever attempted in his professional and academic life; Palin is nothing more than the butt of late-night TV jokes. Surge in Afghanistan? Afghanistan has been a failed state for over a thousand years and will not be reborn as a functioning state in our lifetimes or those of our grandchildren.

If you were a diabetic plumber with 3 children and no health insurance you would probably not agree that there is no health care system emergency. Rich people like yourself always have access to the services they need. The only way to a stronger dollar is to end the wars immediately and downsize the military. What indication or proof do you have that the McCain-Palin team was going to implement that policy?

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[QUOTE=Jackson]It's not about brains, it's about experience.

2. We'd be admiring the results of a military surge in Afghanistan that would have been initiated months ago.[/quote]Once we see the dramatic success of the upcoming military surge in Afghanistan I say we use our new 'surge technology' and go back and clean up Somalia. That should take a couple days. Then we could concentrate on Sudan. That might take a couple hours.

Then, what the heck, lets take care of unfinished business in Vietnam. I never liked the way those Viet Cong kicked our butts out of that country. Our new 'surge technology' should rectify that mistake in a couple of weeks.

The possibilities are unlimited.

[QUOTE=El Alamo][QUOTE=Jackson]It's not about brains, it's about experience.

2. We'd be admiring the results of a military surge in Afghanistan that would have been initiated months ago.

Once we see the dramatic success of the upcoming military surge in Afghanistan I say we use our new 'surge technology' and go back and clean up Somalia. That should take a couple days. Then we could concentrate on Sudan. That might take a couple hours.

Then, what the heck, lets take care of unfinished business in Vietnam. I never liked the way those Viet Cong kicked our butts out of that country. Our new 'surge technology' should be able to rectify that mistake in a couple of weeks.

The possibilities are unlimited.[/QUOTE]How about Cuba and Castro?

Obama's "Secret Master Plan" as the article below refers to is very simple:

Common sense and looking out for your fellow man.

Thank you for posting the gun article, this is more good news. The death and disablement that guns cause in the US every year is unbelievable. Gun ownership needs to be significantly curtailed and regulated, and increasing taxes on it is another smart idea. I think the proposed $50 tax is too low.

[QUOTE=Jackson]It's not about brains, it's about experience.[/QUOTE]Between brains and experience I'll take brains. One may have a lot of experience, but that by no means guarantees they will make the best decisions. Whereas a smart person will gather all relevant information, including consulting with those with experience, in formulating their plans.

Sounds good in theory.

[QUOTE=Jackson]1. We wouldn't have pissed away 780 billion dollars of borrowed money with nothing to show for it.[/QUOTE]Simply untrue. You can review this information on the government website recovery.gov. Two of the more well-known programs have addressed the important auto and housing sectors. The former stimulus has helped a wide spectrum of companies linked to the auto industry, and the latter, along with its recent renewal and expansion to repeat home buyers has and will continue to help soften the landing and put a floor in the housing market (which has significant economic ramifications).

The website also lists the total jobs created / saved due to the Recovery Act. While the exact number is open to debate and may be over-estimated, there can be no doubt the number is very large.

I'm not familiar with everything that has been spent from the funds. But I do think the two programs above are examples of smart, focused and strategic efforts to stabilize important areas of the economy at a critical time. And which have had demonstrable results.

And BTW, these results are not based on the full $787 billion from the Recovery Act. According to the website only about $220 billion has been paid out to date. There is a lot of information on the website if you take the time to look.

[QUOTE=Jackson]4. We'd be watching the economy begin to recover as the Q1 and Q2 tax cuts were stimulating business activity.[/QUOTE]Oh yes the panacea of tax cuts.

By many accounts we are already seeing the beginning of a recovery. The $787 billion actually includes $288 billion in tax benefits. But fortunately, the Recovery Act does not rely solely on this one single component. It's highly questionable whether tax cuts and other tax benefits alone would have stimulated any meaningful economic activity in this type of downturn. A risky gamble. Instead, an approach involving both tax benefits and targeted spending was adopted. I think this is much smarter in the current environment.

"In interviews, a broad range of economists said the White House and Congress were right to structure the package as a mix of tax cuts and spending, rather than just tax cuts as Republicans prefer or just spending as many Democrats do."

New Consensus Sees Stimulus Package as Worthy Step
www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/business/economy/21stimulus.html

I am astonished by the sensitivities of Obama's supporters. They rush to defend or explain whatever Obama has done or said. Furthermore, they appear to be genuinely distraught when we mere mortals cannot appreciate the wisdom of 'THE ONE'

It is my recollection, and it may be dead wrong, that the supporters of Bush or Reagon were never overly sensitive when Bush and Reagan were being criticized.

In fact, the supporters of Bush and Reagan realized they were on the right track when brain dead wind up dolls like Jesse Jackson and Sharpton were criticizing Reagan and Bush.

After all, if you were a supporter of Bush or Reagan, would you want Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Barney 'raise my salary' Franks agreeing with your policies.

[QUOTE=El Alamo]I am astonished by the sensitivities of Obama's supporters. They rush to defend or explain whatever Obama has done or said. Furthermore, they appear to be genuinely distraught when we mere mortals cannot appreciate the wisdom of 'THE ONE'

It is my recollection, and it may be dead wrong, that the supporters of Bush or Reagon were never overly sensitive when Bush and Reagon were being criticized.

In fact, the supporters of Bush and Reagon realized they were on the right track when brain dead wind up dolls like Jesse Jackson and Sharpton were criticizing Reagon and Bush.

Afterall, if you were a supporter of Bush or Reagon, would you want Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Barney 'raise my salary' Franks agreeing with your policies.[/QUOTE]"Perception is in the mind of the beholder" Let's wait till 2012 to see the end of America, until then, opinions are just "opinions".

[QUOTE=El Alamo]I am astonished by the sensitivities of Obama's supporters. They rush to defend or explain whatever Obama has done or said. Furthermore, they appear to be genuinely distraught when we mere mortals cannot appreciate the wisdom of 'THE ONE'

It is my recollection, and it may be dead wrong, that the supporters of Bush or Reagon were never overly sensitive when Bush and Reagon were being criticized.

In fact, the supporters of Bush and Reagon realized they were on the right track when brain dead wind up dolls like Jesse Jackson and Sharpton were criticizing Reagon and Bush.

Afterall, if you were a supporter of Bush or Reagon, would you want Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or Barney 'raise my salary' Franks agreeing with your policies.[/QUOTE]The beauty of Obama being President is to watch all the draft dodging mf. N corporate and political fat cats squirm and scream. It is not about sensitivity. For me, it is purely a generational thing. The fat corporate / political draft-dodging bastards that caused this financial mess deserve everything they are receiving. Excesses of forty some odd years are not undone overnight: Reagonomics. And for McCain, not to take anything away from what he endured, the guy is a first class asshole. He would have been drummed out of the service if it were not for his daddy, a four star Admiral. The guy is a putz. You can take Nixon, Reagan, Busch, Clinton and with distinction, daddy's little boy Busch, and stick them where the sun does not shine. Obama was not born with a silver spoon up his ass and that was all the qualifications and experience he needed for my vote. Furthermore, to place Obama in the same league as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpass is without a doubt the dumbest statement I have ever heard in quite some time. Kiss my lilly white trailer-trash ass. Squirm baby squirm.

[QUOTE=Damman]The beauty of Obama being President is to watch all the draft dodging mf. N corporate and political fat cats squirm and scream. It is not about sensitivity. For me, it is purely a generational thing. The fat corporate / political draft-dodging bastards that caused this financial mess deserve everything they are receiving. Excesses of forty some odd years are not undone overnight: Reagonomics. And for McCain, not to take anything away from what he endured, the guy is a first class asshole. He would have been drummed out of the service if it were not for his daddy, a four star Admiral. The guy is a putz. You can take Nixon, Reagan, Busch, Clinton and with distinction, daddy's little boy Busch, and stick them where the sun does not shine. Obama was not born with a silver spoon up his ass and that was all the qualifications and experience he needed for my vote. Furthermore, to place Obama in the same league as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpass is without a doubt the dumbest statement I have ever heard in quite some time. Kiss my lilly white trailer-trash ass. Squirm baby squirm.[/QUOTE]So let me see if I understand you: In order to "punish" the "all the draft dodging mf. N corporate and political fat cats" you advocate that Obama flush our entire economy down the toilet?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water!

Thanks,

Jackson

I do agree that the "system" needs an enema, maybe even the high colonic purge!

Some recent irony I find amusing.

We have all read about how Dubai is the latest douche on the block. Many of you are no doubt aware of that if you default on a debt in Dubai you go to jail, even if your a foriegner.

When does the Dubai Govt report in to butt rape central?

[QUOTE=Jackson]So let me see if I understand you: In order to "punish" the "all the draft dodging mf. N corporate and political fat cats" you advocate that Obama flush our entire economy down the toilet?

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water!

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE] What economy? Flushed long before Obama showed up. We do not make diddly squat anymore. Want to build a nuclear power plant? Go see Westinghouse. Pardon me, they are owned by a foreign outfit:Toshiba. The list goes on and on of corporations / politicians selling the country out over the years. We w h o r e d ourselves for a quick buck. Tired of hearing Obama this Obama that. No matter who got elected president, the story would be the same: moving deck chairs around on the Titanic. To blame Obama for all this BS is absurd. The US economy has been a train wreck waiting to happen for quite some time.

Yall have a good weekend.

Let's start with the auto industry ie Chrysler and GM. Am I to understand it was a good idea to sell Chrysler to Fiat, a foreign company? But didn't you just rail against other industries being owned by foreign companies, yet it is Ok in your opinion if Obama does it? Am I also to understand it is ok to turn over a sizable chunk of these companies to the unions, who shoulder equal responsibility with poor management in running the firms into the ground, at the expense of the share holders and debt holders who invested in these companies and that is Ok in your opinion if Obama does it?

Funny you should mention nuclear power plants. I may be wrong but I don't think one has been built in this country in 20 years, while Europe has operated them successfully for decades. The left wing green save the planet nuts have successfully stopped the power industry from going that way for years and Obama just gives it lip service in favor of "renewable" power and this is OK with you?

And as Obama and Al Gore (you know the guy with the HUGE CARBON FOOTPINT who has become a multimillionaire from peddling the "sky is falling" global warming mantra) trip off arm in arm into the sunset singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" from the Wizard of Oz as unemployment tops 10% , the economy continues to tank, and Obama triples the Federal deficit in one year and this is OK with you?

Just the ramblings of an old capitalist.

Respectfully submitted for your edification.

Doppelganger

I am not sure who Dammon is but Dammon has my vote for someone destined to move up the corporate ladder. Perhaps President and CEO of General Electric. We will forget all about Jack Walsh once Dammon, the suave, debonair icon of corporate America, makes his presence known.

[QUOTE=Damman]The beauty of Obama being President is to watch all the draft dodging mf. N corporate and political fat cats squirm and scream. It is not about sensitivity. For me, it is purely a generational thing. The fat corporate / political draft-dodging bastards that caused this financial mess deserve everything they are receiving. Excesses of forty some odd years are not undone overnight: Reagonomics. And for McCain, not to take anything away from what he endured, the guy is a first class asshole. He would have been drummed out of the service if it were not for his daddy, a four star Admiral. The guy is a putz. You can take Nixon, Reagan, Busch, Clinton and with distinction, daddy's little boy Busch, and stick them where the sun does not shine. Obama was not born with a silver spoon up his ass and that was all the qualifications and experience he needed for my vote. Furthermore, to place Obama in the same league as Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpass is without a doubt the dumbest statement I have ever heard in quite some time. Kiss my lilly white trailer-trash ass. Squirm baby squirm.[/QUOTE]

The US lost its ability to make quality nuclear containment domes during the Reagan era. The remainder of the reactor besides the fuel cycle is rather simple and can be made anywhere even Iran can do it with sanctions!

In fact the only place that can make them anymore is in Japan, and there is a backlog.

I toured the facility about two years ago and it was top notch.

[url]http://www.draftcheney2012.com/[/url]

They should ship his ass to Afghanistan with a platoon of Marines and see how good he shoots!

Maybe he can "pepper" some Taliban with birdshot.

[QUOTE=Damman]To blame Obama for all this BS is absurd. The US economy has been a train wreck waiting to happen for quite some time.[/QUOTE]Can somebody please tell me the date that the state of the economy will become Obama's responsibility?

Is it next month? Or sometime next year? Or perhaps, as the Obama worshipers apparently wish, the economy will be George Bush's fault for years to come, thus permanently freeing Obama of any accountability for the state of the economy.

Wait, I know the answer: The economy will be George Bush's fault until it rights itself in spite of the anchors that the current administration continues to throw in it's wake, at which point it will then be declared the "Obama Economic Miracle".

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson]Can somebody please tell me the date that the state of the economy will become Obama's responsibility?[/QUOTE]January 20, 2009

[QUOTE=Jackson]Can somebody please tell me the date that the state of the economy will become Obama's responsibility?

Is it next month? Or sometime next year? Or perhaps, as the Obama worshipers apparently wish, the economy will be George Bush's fault for years to come, thus permanently freeing Obama of any accountability for the state of the economy.

Wait, I know the answer: The economy will be George Bush's fault until it rights itself in spite of the anchors that the current administration continues to throw in it's wake, at which point it will then be declared the "Obama Economic Miracle".

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Jackson: When I suggest, "To blame Obama for all this BS is absurd," is to point out there is more than enough responsibility and accountability for the financial mess to go around. It is not to suggest Obama is off the hook. Furthermore, it not about "worshipping" Obama. The point is, Obama should not be your only whipping boy on the block for this debacle. It so difficult to comprehend how Senators / Congressmen can sit at a hearing and question and chastise an administration official when they are the very same individuals that turned a blind eye to all the creative financing of corporate America. What were they doing when all this started to unfold over the past eight years? They all get to speak with impunity and that chaps my ass. Have no idea how they can look themselves in a mirror. It is the largest body of hypocrites on the Planet.

[QUOTE=El Alamo]I am not sure who Dammon is but Dammon has my vote for someone destined to move up the corporate ladder. Perhaps President and CEO of General Electric. We will forget all about Jack Walsh once Dammon, the suave, debonair icon of corporate America, makes his presence known.[/QUOTE]Like a turd in a punch bowl

[QUOTE=Damman]It is the largest body of hypocrites on the Planet.[/QUOTE]Correction - the largest in the US. Put all the legislatures of all the countries together and you get the largest body of hypocrites on the planet.

It's why we need SMALLER government and not bigger. It's why what Obama AND the Democratic congress is doing is so bad for the country - they're going the wrong way. They're not trying to legislate fairness, they're trying to expand the government even bigger than Bush did, which was bad enough to begin with. They're trying to get their fingers into every aspect of life so people can sit back and say "now the government will take care of us."

THAT's what we blame Obama AND the Democrtic Congress for, and it's what many of us (though unfortunately not all of us) blamed Bush for as well.

BTW - has anyone been following "ClimateGate"? The world-wide greens, in our country predominantly left-leaning democrats (and by contamination even just-left-of-center democrats) have been pushing this crap based on bad science.

I read a very interesting paper last night by a group of scientists that were studying tropospheric warming in the topics (between 20 degres north and south) which is where the current science (rightlyfully so) concentrates their studies because it is where most warming occurs.

The paper starts off its introduction describing that the current models used by other scientists (the ones screaming about global warming) have NEVER EVER come close to matching the realities of the ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS of what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING!

In fact, they conclude in their paper that the current "accepted science" on global warming predictions, specifically on the predictions of temperature increases, needs to be adjusted WAY DOWN.

And Obama is trying to spend billions of government dollars (OUR FUCKING MONEY) on bullshit green stuff with subsidies and grants, for things that cannot be commercially viable without that money. Let's not foget that Al Gore, who went from having a couple of million dollars in the bank when he left office with Clinton, to being worth close to 500 million now, is poised on the brink of making severla more fortunes because he is so heavily tied and invested in projects that can't possibly make money unless the government throws money to the greens to "combat" this bullshit man-made global warming.

And the effects of many of these policies is much more likely to increase the chance of a global economic meltdown (pun intended) But Mr. Gore and his cronies will all be rich.

I'd rather have capitalists making the money, because at least that spreads wealth around a whole lot better than what's going to happen if Obama AND the Left get their way.

El Alamo,

I am not sure who you are referring to in your observations of Obama supporters. If anything, what I have seen is a continuous and at times zealous effort to attack and fault Obama and the current administration on numerous issues. Don't assume that people who respond back to such efforts do so blindly without thinking things through.

For myself, I am not a member of any political party. I have my own values and vision of how things should be. And I'm interested in good ideas and plans that support them. Where those ideas come from is not really important. On the current topic, it just so happens that there is considerable alignment between Obama's vision and thinking and my own. Any many others as well.

I know there are smart people on this board but I am not reading too many intelligent explanations of why Obama and the current administration are on the wrong path. The fact that some detractors have resorted to a form of name calling (worshippers, "the ONE", Obamination) and mocking is another sign to me that sound, reasoned arguments are just simply lacking.

Esten, it's because we are in the battle of paradigms.

People who think Obama and his folk are doing the right thing are the kind of people who think that big government is good because government will watch out for the little guy and that "unfettered" capitalism is bad because it takes advantage of the little guy.

The kind of people who are against Obama think the opposite - that it's up to the individual to take care of himself, that government gets in the way of that and makes things worse when it tries to "protect" and make things "equal".

It really doesn't make any difference as to the specific things that Obama and his folk do, because everything they do leads to what Obama and his people believe in (whether it's from their heart or from a desire for power over others) which is opposite from what the others believe.

I think both sides are wrong. As far as I'm concerned, I'm the only one that's right and everything else is going to lead one way or another to tyranny and / or a welfare state. But I'll never convince anyone fo that who doesn't already think that way, and you are not going to convince me that the government can do anything better than private enterprise except for a VERY SMALL class of things, and so on.

It's why I haven't posted in this thread for awhile, because at the end of the day it doesn't make one lick of a difference, but I find myself every once in awhile needing to anyway because we're all proselytizers in one way or another.