American Politics during the Obama Presidency

It is kind of hard to do, if you live in a Democratic country.

What is Michele Bachmann?

This what she said while fielding a question about which social programs she would cut if president, the Minnesota Congresswoman said that "China provided a good example of a society without a social safety net."

Bachmann said that "Lyndon Johnson's Great Society has "not worked, and it's put us into the modern welfare state...If you look at China, they don't have food stamps."

She continued, "They save for their own retirement security, they don't have AFDC (Aid to Families With Dependent Children), they don't have the modern welfare state, and China's growing...and so what I would do is look at the programs that LBJ gave us, with The Great Society, and they'd be gone."

The fact that China's government is resolutely socialist appeared to be lost on her.

Maybe she is a commie?

[QUOTE=Jackson;436432]Robert Reich is a communist.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;436431]There is an article in Sunday's paper written by Robert Reich talking about the same thing.

Originally the Democrats wanted to graft health care into Social Security and Medicare, but republicans did not want that.

They supported private health insurers.

Under Nixon in 1974 he proposed what is the same as the Affordable Car Act.[/QUOTE]My opinion of Red Robert Reich is similar to other posters here. He's a partisan hack masquerading as an intellectual, who lies through his teeth for his party and his neo-corporatist* agenda.

HOWEVER, he has a point. Not about Republicans. Since Nixon in 1974 the Republican Party has experienced Reagan, Gingrich, and the Tea Party. It's a different animal. The majority of Republicans today wouldn't support the ACA, with or without Obama. But there is a need for radical restructuring of the health care system. If health care were grafted onto social security like it is in Singapore, so that most of health care expenditures were the responsibility of individuals and there were real competition and price transparency, I could support that. I could also support a system like what Jackson has described in Argentina, where a small part of GDP, maybe 5%, would pay for universal public health care, while private options would also be allowed. Please note that 5% of GDP would be less than what's spent in the USA on Medicare and Medicaid, but more than what's spent in Singapore for all its health care. And by almost every statistic, medical care is superior in Singapore to the USA.

This is all a pipe dream though. The vested interests, being seniors who expect to take 2 or 3 times more out of Medicare than what they spent on it, the insurance companies, and the lawyers who sue doctors and the insurance companies, will never allow the free market to exist in medicine. And, if you were to put somebody like Robert Reich in charge of health care, he would muck it up worse than it is now, like what's happening with the ACA.

*Note to Esten: This word is for you. You should cheerfully accept that you're a Neo-corporatist, just as I'm proud of my new label that you kindly provided, Neoliberal.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;436436] But there is a need for radical restructuring of the health care system. If health care were grafted onto social security like it is in Singapore, so that most of health care expenditures were the responsibility of individuals and there were real competition and price transparency, I could support that. [/QUOTE]A new viewpoint? Ala Ben Carson?

A little historical perspective from Wikipedia: The 1993 Republican alternative, introduced by Sen. John Chafee as the Health & Access Reform Bill Today Act contained an "universal coverage" requirement with a penalty for non compliance-an individual mandate as well as subsidies to be used in state based purchasing programs. Of the 43 Republican Senators from 1993, almost half-20 out of 43 supported the HEART ACT. At that time of these proposals, Republicans did not raise constitutional issues with the mandate.

So what gives? It can't be about funding? It can't be about personal liberties?

It was all about Obama. I will leave at that.

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436437]A new viewpoint? Ala Ben Carson?

A little historical perspective from Wikipedia: The 1993 Republican alternative, introduced by Sen. John Chafee as the Health & Access Reform Bill Today Act contained an "universal coverage" requirement with a penalty for non compliance-an individual mandate as well as subsidies to be used in state based purchasing programs. Of the 43 Republican Senators from 1993, almost half-20 out of 43 supported the HEART ACT. At that time of these proposals, Republicans did not raise constitutional issues with the mandate.

So what gives? It can't be about funding? It can't be about personal liberties?

It was all about Obama. I will leave at that.[/QUOTE]You're agreeing with me then? In 1993, twenty years ago, before the 1994 Gingrich Revolution and the Tea Party, a majority of Republicans in the Senate did not support something that you believe was similar to the ACA? How much would the 1993 legislation have cost the taxpayer? How much will Obamacare cost the taxpayer? So if this was popular among Republicans at the same time Hillary Clinton was pushing health care reform, how come nothing came of any of it? These are really questions, I don't know the answers.

Food for Thought.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28900[/ATTACH]

Nuf said!

[B]Hum on this BS![/B]

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436415]If you are under any employer sponsored medical plans, you can hum loudly. [/QUOTE]My former employer no longer offers the catastrophic policy I carried, except if you're under 30 years of age. (age discrimination?)

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436415] If you do not have a job, you can hum somewhat out of tune (no job), but because under poverty provisions, you can qualify for subsidized medical insurance.[/QUOTE]Yes of course we take better care of those that refuse to work than those who worked all their lives.

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436415]If you are live out of the country, you can either croak or hum because ACA does not apply to you. And your financial & health condition will dictate your humming.[/QUOTE]Not completely true if like me your not out of the country for 330 day a year your not exempt. I live out of the country 8 or 9 months a year, so I will be required to buy insurance for the entire year and it will cost much more than the catastrophic policy I carried before.

You call this universal heath care, how well does it pay if you're out of network or how about out of the country?

There are ways I could lessen the impact of this such as delaying SS benefits and not taking 401k or IRA money and only showing my pension as income. I would actually qualify for a subsidy, but I don't want to delay SS and I don't want a government handout to purchase something I don't want or need to begin with.

I worked all my life (first job at age twelve) and went through some pretty lean times but I never accepted a handout and I don't plan on taking one now. So thanks to you progressives and your nannyism I will be forced to engage in civil disobedience, I will refuse to buy insurance and make sure I don't have a tax refund coming so they can't collect the penalty. Before ObamaCare I had catastrophic coverage now I'm at the mercy of the gods. Perhaps you, Obama, and Dr. Carson could say a little prayer for me next Sunday at church.

Yes Christie Won.

But what did the rest of the Tea Party do help the rest of your Republican Party?

How did they get to into the Republican party?

Were you Sleeping again?

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party[/URL]

Just like Ran Paul, I copied most of true History, that repeated itself. Not like he did not knowing truth or not.

Tell him to go back to school.

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436416]Piers Morgan is no different from Hannity or 90% of talk show hosts. They will say anything for ratings. They will sell their mothers. Every program, they will have certain sensational talking points, program for impact. Any guest that can make any headway towards thwarting that format will get interrupted repeatedly and asked questions that will not allow any context to be given. "Controversial" is the catchword for modern media, negativity is to be milked to the fullest.
[/QUOTE]Finally something we can agree on, kind of, the ratings part that is, but;.

[I]”Piers Stefan Pughe-Morgan, known professionally as Piers Morgan, is a British journalist, television host and former television talent competition judge currently working in the United States.”[/I]
Piers Morgan needs to worry about his own country and not ours. From what I hear the British don't want him either, that's why he's in the USA.

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436416]So the question, does Obama lie more than any other politician? 5%, 50%?[/QUOTE]If I beat my wife less than you beat you wife, is it ok for me? Employees that lie to their employers or who lie on job applications should be fired.

[QUOTE=Punter127;436442]There are ways I could lessen the impact of this such as delaying SS benefits and not taking 401k or IRA money and only showing my pension as income. I would actually qualify for a subsidy, but I don't want to delay SS and I don't want a government handout to purchase something I don't want or need to begin

Perhaps you, Obama, and Dr. Carson could say a little prayer for me next Sunday at church.[/QUOTE]Step into the void. Be not afraid, for thou art with me.

As a recipient of Medicare, $100 is deducted from my SS payments every month. I still claim LA as my residence, but I am out of the country 11 months out of every year. In everyday routine health issues, the Health Coverage is totally useless for me as I cannot use it overseas unless for emergency care. In such cases, I can submit claims and be reimburse. As a I understand it, you have to prove you are on vacation, thus you cannot be out of the USA for more than 6 months (my brother's experience in London, bill was $40,000).

I do see my doctor whenever I'm in town, my medications are covered by my insurance. In general, I have been paying out of pocket for physician visits & lab tests in Bangkok. I also covered my own optical & dental expenses. No, no, no! Massages are not covered! Far from wealthy, I am lucky to be able to afford my health care & massage expenses so far. My latest tests showed that I am in good health, so I am one lucky SOB. Hope you are, too.

So step into the Promised Land. Rejoice! And be exceedingly glad, for great is thy reward.

[QUOTE=Punter127;436442]There are ways I could lessen the impact of this such as delaying SS benefits and not taking 401k or IRA money and only showing my pension as income. I would actually qualify for a subsidy, but I don't want to delay SS and I don't want a government handout to purchase something I don't want or need to begin with.

I worked all my life (first job at age twelve) and went through some pretty lean times but I never accepted a handout and I don't plan on taking one now. So thanks to you progressives and your nannyism I will be forced to engage in civil disobedience, I will refuse to buy insurance and make sure I don't have a tax refund coming so they can't collect the penalty. Before ObamaCare I had catastrophic coverage now I'm at the mercy of the gods. Perhaps you, Obama, and Dr. Carson could say a little prayer for me next Sunday at church.[/QUOTE]No insurance is your decision, you take your own risks. Don't ask others to pray for the decisions you make, especially when you're eligible for a tax credit but refuse out of pride. People with lower incomes accept paying lower tax rates, accept standard deductions and other provisions that lower their tax burden. The ACA tax credit should be no different.

Prior to the ACA, people were benefiting from a system that discriminated against other people with preexisting conditions. A system that changes that needs more revenue. If you think the hardship of some people paying more for insurance outweighs the hardship of those with preexisting conditions, you can try to change the law. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Esten;436446]...especially when you're eligible for a tax credit but refuse out of pride. People with lower incomes accept paying lower tax rates, accept standard deductions and other provisions that lower their tax burden. The ACA tax credit should be no different.[/QUOTE]Bullshit. Except for government employees, anyone that takes ANY money from the government should be ashamed of themselves for being a parasitic leech.

Stop preaching government dependency!

[QUOTE]Prior to the ACA, people were benefiting from a system that discriminated against other people with preexisting conditions.[/QUOTE]More bullshit hyperbole.

Are you being "[I]discriminated against[/I]" when a property insurance company declines to sell you fire insurance today to retroactively cover your house that burned down yesterday?

Are you being "[I]discriminated against[/I]" when an auto insurance company declines to sell you an auto accident policy today to retroactively cover you for your accident last week?

Are you being "[I]discriminated against[/I]" when a life insurance company declines to sell you a life insurance policy today to pay benefits for your loved one who died last month?

It's not discrimination, it's business, and by your rules they'd be out of business.

Thanks,

Jax

Remember when Nancy Pelosi said "[I]We have to pass it, to find out what's in it.[/I]"

A physician called into a radio show and said: "[I]that's the definition of a stool sample.[/I]"

That pretty well sums it up, and I believe we should have universal healthcare. Unfortunately, ACA is not the answer.

Tres3.

[QUOTE=Jackson;436448]Are you being "[I]discriminated against[/I]" when an auto insurance company declines to sell you an auto accident policy today to retroactively cover you for your accident yesterday?Jax[/QUOTE]I get your point. But it has been known for people to have bought car insurance for years with good record & no claims, then have a couple of accidents / tickets within a short period, to have their insurance rates go up or outright cancelled.

Also, we are talking about health care, not cars or houses. Otherwise, Punter127 wouldn't feel so naked in the wilderness.

So my state opted for its own exchange and like the feds' exchange, it has been down a lot and has a lot of bugs. Nevertheless, after four tries I was able to sign up for insurance (I've been retired for 18 months now so my COBRA expired last month). But, the system that was supposed to verify my SS# was not working so I have to do two things that are kind of impossible:

1) Fax a copy of my SS card, which who the fuck has one of those these days, and SSA won't send you one either.

2) Show evidence of my 2014 income, which how the fuck do I know what that will be? I mean, I do know, because it will be the precise amount designed to exploit the system to my own best advantage, but how do I prove I am going to sell X amount of stock at some why date during 2014 to produce Z amount of (federally tax-free) capital gain? They want a letter from your employer or some shit and if I had an employer it would piss him or her off to have to write some jive ass letter. They don't even tell you to whom it should be addressed. IRS? Insurance company? Obama? I wrote 'them a letter explaining the difference between my '12 and '13 income and telling them my best guess as to what income I would show for 2014 so we will see what happens. I faxed it today and left hard copy for my agent to mail because I figure the fax will get mis-filed somewhere.

I also had to do a couple of things that were easy enough but which were not supposed to be necessary because they had "integrated systems": fax a copy of my passport to prove my citizenship, and fax my 2012 tax return. Supposedly the exchange will compile all this and somehow notify the insurer, who will eventually allegedly contact me.

I got a Silver plan and chose a high co-pay for office visits and meds in exchange for a $1450 annual out-of-pocket max. The cost to me will be $219 a month. Is that cheap? I don't know but it won't do me a hell of a lot of good for at least four months since I won't be in the US. For ex-pats, almost any US insurance will be "catastrophic coverage" in that you have to go back to the US to get coverage and you'd only do that for something serious.

So for guys like Punter who are considering civil disobedience, I offer the following:

There are numerous exemptions from the penalty for not being insured. The one I like best is Hardship Exemption #3: "You received a shut-off notice from a utility company." So don't pay your garbage bill for a while, get the shut off notice, pay the garbage bill, lather, rinse, repeat. I also like Hardship Exemption #8, "You had medical expenses you couldn't pay in the last 24 months." Umm well yeah I had no insurance so I could not pay my medical bills so now I don't have to get insurance. Hmm.

One thing I could get pissed off about if I felt like it would be that now men and women pay the same rate, but all policies must cover maternity care, but no men require maternity care. So men are paying for women's maternity care, whether men have children or not. Oh well. I paid to educate other people's children my whole working life so now those who are still working can subsidize my health insurance premium, so that my premium can subsidize others' procreation costs.

I'll try to pass on most of my $373 monthly subsidy to some hookers to kind of even things out.

[QUOTE=Esten;436446]No insurance is your decision, you take your own risks. Don't ask others to pray for the decisions you make, especially when you're eligible for a tax credit but refuse out of pride.[/QUOTE]Stop acting like a fucking moron, I would have to manipulate my income to qualify for any amount of subsidy. I'm not about to lower my standard of living in order to get a handout.

Obama said "If you like your healthcare plan, you'll be able to keep your healthcare plan, period." Well I liked my plan but Obama has reneged on his promise. And now the lying bastard wants to force me to buy a plan that cost nearly twice what I was paying, and it's a plan I don't want and it doesn't fit my needs.

I can buy health insurance outside the United States that will cover me anyplace in the world, the only restriction is it will only give me catastrophic coverage in the USA and only for 30 days at a time. Will Obamacare cover me outside the USA?

[QUOTE=Esten;436446]People with lower incomes accept paying lower tax rates, accept standard deductions and other provisions that lower their tax burden. The ACA tax credit should be no different.[/QUOTE]Wrong, the key words here are tax burden, deduction and tax rates are used to calculate [B]my tax burden[/B] and we are talking about [B]my tax dollars,[/B] how much tax [B]I have to pay.[/B] With ObamaCare you are using other peoples money to subsidize the purchase of health care insurance, in other words you are taking money from one person / group to pay for the health insurance of another. It's apples and oranges.

[QUOTE=Esten;436446]Prior to the ACA, people were benefiting from a system that discriminated against other people with preexisting conditions. A system that changes that needs more revenue. If you think the hardship of some people paying more for insurance outweighs the hardship of those with preexisting conditions, you can try to change the law. Good luck.[/QUOTE]Now we have a system that discriminates against people over the age of 30, but I suppose government sponsored discrimination is OK. Do you think it's OK for a person to wait until they have a health problem to buy insurance, that's exactly what a lot of folks with preexisting conditions did or tried to do, and I suspect now many will pay the penalty until they become ill and then they will buy insurance because they can't be turned down.

The Obamacare nightmare is clearly a government overreach and I will wholeheartedly support those who try to change this unfair and discriminatory law.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;436452]So for guys like Punter who are considering civil disobedience, I offer the following:

There are numerous exemptions from the penalty for not being insured. The one I like best is Hardship Exemption #3: "You received a shut-off notice from a utility company." So don't pay your garbage bill for a while, get the shut off notice, pay the garbage bill, lather, rinse, repeat. I also like Hardship Exemption #8, "You had medical expenses you couldn't pay in the last 24 months." Umm well yeah I had no insurance so I could not pay my medical bills so now I don't have to get insurance. Hmm.
[/QUOTE]I think you know me well enough to know I'm not a hardship case and I'm never going to pretend to be something I'm not, and I will never not pay my debts.

[QUOTE=BlackShirt;436451] Otherwise, Punter127 wouldn't feel so naked in the wilderness.[/QUOTE]Since I'm in Indonesia jungle is probably a better word than wilderness, but either way I don't feel naked, I feel violated.

The bottom line is I will not buy Obamacare insurance and if the government want to impose a penalty on me they will have to come and take it, I will not send it to them.