Argentine Economy

[QUOTE=Schmoj]I think you could live comfortably on 2k, like a king on 3k. Lodging will be the biggest part of your budget. I rent a "tourist" apartment. It's furnished and includes all utilities, but is still way overpriced. Renting a "normal" apartment, while cheaper, generally requires a two year lease and your first born as a deposit.

The biggest increase in prices I have seen is eating in restaurants in Palermo. I spent 63 pesos for lunch, which not so long ago was closer to 50.

I should add, I wear jeans and t-shirts and don't buy much in Argentina other than CDs and books. Electronics, I bring back from the US or Europe. Clothes, I generally buy in the US. You couldn't pay me to drive here. All of these things cost quite a bit here and would increase your costs significantly.

I'm curious to hear what other expat residents think.[/QUOTE]I bought a house here a while back so rent isn't an issue. I do run a car and that is about a grand a year not including depreciation. Utilities are so cheap it is laughable. Figure about U$140 a month, max, including basic cable and internet. Cost of food is like asking how long is the piece of string. If you eat out for breakfast, lunch and dinner figure on 160 - 200 pesos a day. (U$50) I cook mostly because that's my thing and although the food here is good, it does get boring and is pretty plain. You would be hard-pressed to spend more than U$100 on food a week if you cooked a bit and ate out a bit.

Booze is cheap enough except if you drink out at Blacks etc. I am not on a budget and I live and work here as if I was home. It really is still very cheap whereas 3 years back they almost paid you to live here. My guess is I spend U$600 - 700 a month to live, the variable being how often you eat out.

Argento

Argentina Top Carry-Trade Currency.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-04/peso-becoming-top-carry-trade-currency-as-exports-soar-argentina-credit.html[/url]

Poverty on the streets but no real problem with the clubs.

Looks like CFK is moving more to the left, to appease the unions for the election.

It will probably harm foreign direct investment. I don't understand why someone would move large amounts of money into a country where the rules keep changing. There is no way to plan.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-08/argentine-profit-sharing-law-threatens-jobs-as-investment-lags-chile-peru.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Tessan; 413850]Looks like CFK is moving more to the left, to appease the unions for the election.

It will probably harm foreign direct investment. I don't understand why someone would move large amounts of money into a country where the rules keep changing. There is no way to plan.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-08/argentine-profit-sharing-law-threatens-jobs-as-investment-lags-chile-peru.html[/url][/QUOTE]This is old news. They've been talking this bill up for two months or more. Politics as usual. The bill likely has very little chance, but if it is voted down by the opposition, CFK can blame them for not helping out the working poor. Election year political manuevering.

Interesting read. Saw it the other day but didn't have a chance to post it.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-04/peso-becoming-top-carry-trade-currency-as-exports-soar-argentina-credit.html[/url]

I was reading the discussion below on how much its required to live comfortably in BA.

IMHO, I would say with current prices and if you are renting in Palermo or Recoleta, move in taxis, fuck at will, go out and eat at will,. You need about 4500 us$ a month.

What do you guys think?

[QUOTE=Captain; 413857]I was reading the discussion below on how much its required to live comfortably in BA.

IMHO, I would say with current prices and if you are renting in Palermo or Recoleta, move in taxis, fuck at will, go out and eat at will. You need about 4500 us$ a month.

What do you guys think? [/QUOTE]Depends on your lifestyle I guess

Rent: From 600 dollar to 2500 dollar or so. I think you should be looking somewhere between 800 and 1400 dollar.

Food: I can eat out for around 35 peso a day, that would make around 300 dollar a month. I am guessing that cooking at home is also around 300 dollar. If you go to the more fancy restaurants I would add atleast 500 dollar or so.

Going out 2 times a week: Around 100 dollar a week, 400 to 500 dollar a month.

Chicas = 2 times a week x 150 dollar, 1200 dollar a month.

Taxi = I would quit taking them and just go with bus, train or Subte, but 2 trips a day I would say cost you about another 300 to 500 dollar a month

Healthcare: I would guess around 250 to 300 dollar a month for a good plan

Extra = 15 dollar a day, 500 dollar a month.

I would say atleast 2500 dollar and up to 5000 dollar a month

Trampa,

I agree. Though if you want to live well and shag at will then it would the upper limit.500us$

My break up.

Rental.1200 us$, all inclusive.

Taxis.600 us$ at will

Food.500 us$ eating out at will

Sex.1900 us$ (about 25 chicas a month excluding Sundays..one daily)

Misc.500 us$ ( unknown/unaccountable)

Total = 4700 us$

[QUOTE=Captain; 413863]Trampa,

I agree. Though if you want to live well and shag at will then it would the upper limit.500us$

My break up.

Rental.1200 us$, all inclusive.

Taxis.600 us$ at will.

Food.500 us$ eating out at will.

Sex.1900 us$ (about 25 chicas a month excluding Sundays. One daily)

Misc.500 us$ (unknown / unaccountable)

Total = 4700 us$[/QUOTE]Sex about 75 dollar a day (200 peso) I guess it's possible if you only go to privado's but then again is that fun if you do it every day? I was calculating about 150 dollar for a nightclub night, 2 times a week should be a enough if you want to enjoy the other sides of BA as well.

20 dollar a day for the taxi every day, that's about 4 trips of 20 peso each. Personally I would say it's pretty much money badly spend and it seems a bit much. Just find places close to your home, would be my advice or learn how to use the public transport

500 dollar or about 18 dollar a day for food, you really need to pick your spots and don't go to fancy restaurants. Around 35 peso a day is possible, but that's just 1 meal if you eat 2 times a day out it will be a stretch. If you don't want to look to much how much you spend I think it should be closer to 800-1000 dollar.

Rental can probally be a bit cheaper but the question should be if you want to spend less on a place you where you probally be around 12-16 hours a day in a place where you spend 4000 dollar a month

Trampa,

Minor correction. 75us$ will be 300 ARS and not 200 ARS.

300 ARS is not a huge amount but enough to for chica out calls at your home as well.

The taxi money will also include paying the taxi fare for chica outcalls.

Local transport is OK to use but then night time. It is either not there or too infrequent.

[QUOTE=Captain; 413872]Trampa,

Minor correction.75us$ will be 300 ARS and not 200 ARS.

300 ARS is not a huge amount but enough to for chica out calls at your home as well.

The taxi money will also include paying the taxi fare for chica outcalls.

Local transport is OK to use but then night time. It is either not there or too infrequent. [/QUOTE]Personally I am someone who does spend, around 3000-4000 dollar a month but I hardly take the taxi's anymore. I am mobile though and don't mind walking 6-10 blocks.

The buses I normally take 152,130,64,60,343,707 do have good frequency but I do have to say that I don't enjoy to take the bus at night (lack of frequency mostly) and prefer to wait for the Mitre train to go to Cap (first one around 4,30, last one around 12,00) or to provincia (first one around 5,00 and last one 040/0,50)

[QUOTE=Trampa; 413861]Depends on your lifestyle I guess

Rent: From 600 dollar to 2500 dollar or so. I think you should be looking somewhere between 800 and 1400 dollar.

Food: I can eat out for around 35 peso a day, that would make around 300 dollar a month. I am guessing that cooking at home is also around 300 dollar. If you go to the more fancy restaurants I would add atleast 500 dollar or so.

Going out 2 times a week: Around 100 dollar a week, 400 to 500 dollar a month.

Chicas = 2 times a week x 150 dollar, 1200 dollar a month.

Taxi = I would quit taking them and just go with bus, train or Subte, but 2 trips a day I would say cost you about another 300 to 500 dollar a month

Healthcare: I would guess around 250 to 300 dollar a month for a good plan

Extra = 15 dollar a day, 500 dollar a month.

I would say atleast 2500 dollar and up to 5000 dollar a month[/QUOTE]Your pocket is very deep, my friend.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/lowest-rates-since-bear-stearns-failure-signal-debt-deal-argentina-credit.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Doggboy; 414508]

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/lowest-rates-since-bear-stearns-failure-signal-debt-deal-argentina-credit.html[/url]

[/QUOTE]Thanks. Some unfounded optomism from Voodoo methinks.

Argento

Subjective analysis of the Argentine Economy over the last few years: the 2001 crash, union salary increases, commodities, inflation, the empty ATM's earlier this year, etc:

[url]http://www.acting-man.com/?p=6937[/url]

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-29/no-one-cries-for-argentina-embracing-25-inflation-as-fernandez-leads-boom.html[/url]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/opinion/argentinas-turnaround-tango.html?hpw[/url]

[QUOTE=Doggboy;419075][url]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/opinion/argentinas-turnaround-tango.html?hpw[/url][/QUOTE]I read that article when it came out a few days ago and couldn't stop shaking my head in disbelief. It is one of the most laughably misguided pieces I've read this year. It is not small wonder that it came from the New York Times.

The author fails to mention several significant items. The author notes that Argentina defaulted on its debt, but fails to point out that Argentina refused, and continues to refuse, to pay it back. Essentially, Argentina stole $100 billion it owed to its creditors. While it absconded with these funds, this "strategy" has frozen Argentina from capital markets and prevented it from growing like its peers, Brazil and Chile. Admittedly, some has been paid back through purchases in the secondary market at deep discounts. But, only the New York Times could blind itself to this fact.

The author fails to mention Argentina's 20% inflation rate, or that Argentina lies about its inflation stats so it can pay artificially low interest to the lone remaining creditor willing to lend it money: Hugo Chavez. So, Chavez collects half the interest he bargained for. When the real inflation rate is added to the mix, Argentina's 6% GDP growth is putrid. Like Argentina, the NYT undoubtedly would hold up Venezuela as a shining example of economic policy, as well.

The author fails to mention that the Argentine government seized private pensions when it started to run low on cash. It did this supposedly in the name of saving private pensioners from the risks and vicissitudes of world markets, when the Dow was down around 8, 000. In so doing, it robbed those same pensioners of nearly 40% growth in the years since then. But, hey, the government beast needed to be fed, and taxes alone weren't getting the job done.

The author praises Argentina's social welfare programs but fails to mention that these are in part responsible for public lands and parks being effectively seized by migrants from other countries, who have no place to go but the dole when arriving in Buenos Aires.

The article starts out by saying that since the default Argentina "has performed an economic U-turn — an achievement largely unnoticed outside Latin America, but one that President Obama and Congress should look to for inspiration." This is perhaps the most naive statement of all. Has this author failed to notice that this is exactly what the Obama administration has been doing?

For what it's worth:

[url]http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-06/D9V4GCNG2.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=HappyGoLucky; 422970]For what it's worth:

[url]http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-06/D9V4GCNG2.htm[/url][/QUOTE]


You will be able to buy a $300. k USD for 30k !

Do it !

TL

Here's an interesting article from the Miami Herald on the Argentine economy that helps explain why things have gotten the why that they have: [url]http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/16/2851968/argentinas-economic-fiesta-is.html[/url]

The Miami Herald article posted indicated the true inflation rate is 25% and I can attest to that it is at least that much if not more.

On this trip I had dinner at one of my favorite restaurants and was shocked to see the bill at the end of the meal. The increase since January was at least 25% and the same is true for many purchases you make here.

Xoom is doing 6. 02 Pesos per dollar.

I read today in regard to Sicily's economy,"if I steal a little, I go to jail, if I steal a big amount, I advance my career".

It was not too long ago when you encounter very well educated taxi drivers in countries like Peru or Singapore. Will we see that soon in Argentina?

Next question, where will the Argentinians go? Spain & Italy are in economic turmoil, their normal escape routes will now be close. Maybe, your voluptous apartment manager might pull her panties down now?

[QUOTE=Black Shirt; 424337]I read today in regard to Sicily's economy,"if I steal a little, I go to jail, if I steal a big amount, I advance my career".

It was not too long ago when you encounter very well educated taxi drivers in countries like Peru or Singapore. Will we see that soon in Argentina?

Next question, where will the Argentinians go? Spain & Italy are in economic turmoil, their normal escape routes will now be close. Maybe, your voluptous apartment manager might pull her panties down now?[/QUOTE]Many argie girls come to México to pursue a career as a) Soap opera starlets, b) Lap dancers, c) Escorts. We expect an increase in the number of workers in these "professions" when the new crisis begins. Argie boys probably will try their luck in other countries as a) Soccer players b) Trannies. Any other ideas fellows?

Just arrived back in BA yesterday. Been hearing bad stuff like Cristina won't allow locals to buy $USD and last year she made imports much more difficult.

I spoke to a Venezuelan friend in Miami who said thats how Chavez started.

I fear Dec 2001 will be coming back to BA soon. Crime is already on the rise. I hear the Rolex store INSIDE THE ALVEAR PALACE HOTEL was knocked off by armed gunman, Crap.

[QUOTE=Hubbster;424436]I fear Dec 2001 will be coming back to BA soon. Crime is already on the rise. I hear the Rolex store INSIDE THE ALVEAR PALACE HOTEL was knocked off by armed gunman, Crap.[/QUOTE]And as a foreign monger with money from outside the country coming here to monger that is bad becouse?

Fuck, for ME it is wonderful! The pussy is going down in price by the day, more and more girls come to the market, locals can't afford any, we are talking my wet dream! And that is before we start talking about things like buying property and taking "stuff" into the country.

Me I say let's PRAY we soon can party like it is 2002! If I am lucky the crime will evan get so bad it scare away a few of the other mongers that comes down here!

(AND remember, I did not vote for Christina and have no say in politic in this place so I have ZERO guilt. The majority of natives that support this insane politic in elections can take all that blame!)

Stranger

This has been successful for me. When I'm out an about during the day and have no real business to do I try and dress like a criminal. No jewlery, older jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, and a hoodie. Criminals don't usually rob other criminals. Lucky for me I used to be one so it's not hard for me to pull off.

[QUOTE=Hubbster; 424436]Just arrived back in BA yesterday. Been hearing bad stuff like Cristina won't allow locals to buy $USD and last year she made imports much more difficult.

I spoke to a Venezuelan friend in Miami who said thats how Chavez started.

I fear Dec 2001 will be coming back to BA soon. Crime is already on the rise. I hear the Rolex store INSIDE THE ALVEAR PALACE HOTEL was knocked off by armed gunman, Crap.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz;424438]This has been successful for me. When I'm out an about during the day and have no real business to do I try and dress like a criminal. No jewlery, older jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, and a hoodie. Criminals don't usually rob other criminals. Lucky for me I used to be one so it's not hard for me to pull off.[/QUOTE]BUT the golden rules is even more simple; If you look like food you will be eaten!

And if you are a prey don't go where the predators hunt!

(I dress TO stand out, BUT I do not walk a fucking block it this town when I am drunk and it is dark, or any big city in the word).

Personally I find the whole crime thing in BA overrated, sure I know several people that has been mugged, and going to the wrong place will get you killed for 50p.

BUT if you stay in a nice area, go in cabs after dark and never go to a place you do not know by yourself at night you will be fine. Showing of expensive watches and jewelry will make you a target in any poor country.

Walking looking like a typical clueless tourist will get you robbed in daylight on Florida street, but it will also get you robbed in Paris! Me I find BA 10 times more safe than say London and in some places in the US people will fucking kill you for a pair of sneekers!

And like you say blending in and being the "gray man" is never unwise, unless you want to impress girls that is, jeje.

Stranger

We almost had to kill a taxista one night that took usto a clip joint.

That night was yet another movie

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter; 424442]We almost had to kill a taxista one night that took usto a clip joint.

That night was yet another movie[/QUOTE]Hehe, THAT was quite a night! AFTER croco closed and we where soooooo wasted!

Shit! I still do not have a clue where that was, but to be fair we went looking for trouble! Not something I wold advice anyone to do!
(BUT we never lost any money, we did not even pay the taxi,jeje).

Stranger

[QUOTE=Stranger;424437]Fuck, for ME it is wonderful! The pussy is going down in price by the day, more and more girls come to the market, locals can't afford any, we are talking my wet dream! And that is before we start talking about things like buying property and taking "stuff" into the country. Stranger[/QUOTE]Between you, me and the fencepost, the pussy is cheaper here than in pretty much every country I have been to recently. Thailand, Brazil, Colombia, UAE, Canada. I'm trying to stay away from the high peso pussy though. I'm freakin LOVIN it here! 400 pesos for a nice looking chica, servicio completo, and she makes me feel like studly hung well? lol. How can you beat that?

The local mongers don't seem to have any problem affording the pussy. There is always a shitload of posts every day. They set the prices except for chicas that deal mostly with tourists. Us AP mongers are a drop in the chicas pussy in comparison. If the chicas up the prices and the locals pay it, then we have a problem! LOL not really.

We ended up in las cantinas, that was also the night you bit your tongue

When I put my arm out to stop you from ending up flying over a taxi. Like I said another night you could have made a movie from

Ukraine is way over priced compared to 5 years ago. Prague is now the Las Vegas of Europe, so you pay Las Vegas prices. China is still a bargain. Hong Kong is even better with an 8 to 1 exchange rate. Especially if you like petite spinners. There are thousands of 9's available. Now that the economy is improved in China, many girls need that designer hand bag / designer cosmetics to keep up with the Jones. They take a 3 week "vacation" from Mainland China to Hong Kong or Macau (because it's easier for them to get the short term visa). They need a visa to leave mainland China even though Hong Kong and Macau are part of China. They work the apartment scene for the 3 weeks, coming home with more money than they make in their job in an entire year! Nobody in their home town is the wiser. If BA goes higher than 8 to 1 exchange rate they win the bargain destination award. Mountaineer.

[QUOTE=SunSeeker; 424446]Between you, me and the fencepost, the pussy is cheaper here than in pretty much every country I have been to recently. Thailand, Brazil, Colombia, UAE, Canada. I'm trying to stay away from the high peso pussy though. I'm freakin LOVIN it here! 400 pesos for a nice looking chica, servicio completo, and she makes me feel like studly hung well? LOL. How can you beat that?

The local mongers don't seem to have any problem affording the pussy. There is always a shitload of posts every day. They set the prices except for chicas that deal mostly with tourists. Us AP mongers are a drop in the chicas pussy in comparison. If the chicas up the prices and the locals pay it, then we have a problem! LOL not really.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stranger; 424437]And as a foreign monger with money from outside the country coming here to monger that is bad becouse?

Fuck, for ME it is wonderful! The pussy is going down in price by the day, more and more girls come to the market, locals can't afford any, we are talking my wet dream! And that is before we start talking about things like buying property and taking "stuff" into the country.

Me I say let's PRAY we soon can party like it is 2002! If I am lucky the crime will evan get so bad it scare away a few of the other mongers that comes down here!

(AND remember, I did not vote for Christina and have no say in politic in this place so I have ZERO guilt. The majority of natives that support this insane politic in elections can take all that blame!)

Stranger[/QUOTE]I moved from BA to Miami in 2002, didn't want to get kidnapped down here. I think there is a worldwide global economic collapse unfolding and we're still in early stages.

If Cristina & her Comrades go full Commie like Chavez they will be stealing people's property and her thugs will even more blatant than now.

As for dress code I definately dress down here, hell I empty my wallet of US stuff back in Miami & leave all that stuff there. I don't do the scruffy look but no flashy watches, jewelry etc and I pretty much only have disposable stuff on me that I won't miss + 100P in the wallet just in case I get mugged so they leave me alone

[QUOTE=Stranger; 424437]If I am lucky the crime will evan get so bad it scare away a few of the other mongers that comes down here!

Stranger[/QUOTE]Loved this particular statement. I pray for it too! .

[url]http://www.riskwatchdog.com/2012/09/10/argentina-economic-outlook-deteriorating/[/url]