We may bicker, we may *****, we even call each other names. But never mind, all is well. If you just look under the bed, so much to be thankful for. Enjoy but watch the calories!
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We may bicker, we may *****, we even call each other names. But never mind, all is well. If you just look under the bed, so much to be thankful for. Enjoy but watch the calories!
This is inaccurate information. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had absolutely nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts and were not applicable in either case.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;436794]Obama circumvented standard Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws and placed GM & Chrysler in something I call Obama-rutcy, to insure the UAW kept their current labor contracts intact and not to "save the company".
Neither GM nor Chrysler considered filing Chapter 7, liquidation of the company and it's assets. Had GM & Chrysler followed a standard Chapter 13 bankruptcy course the court would most probably have allowed them to void their current labor contracts with the UAW. The companies would have emerged from Chapter 13 leaner and more competitive with new labor contracts.
This was simple naked pandering to the UAW by Obama. Why else would Obama put the American people on the hook for THREE TIMES WHAT THE COMPANY WAS WORTH?
While GM has "repaid" their loans from the initial bailout, they merely exchanged those loans for new government loans.
ObamaCare is still a train wreck and the website will not be up and running by the end of November as Obama promised. In fact the administration is telling its supporters not to use the site and is trying to place work- a-rounds in to let people sign up and not use the website.
If Obama thought the individual health policy cancellations were something the second shoe is going to drop in August – October 2014 when company insurance policies begin receiving cancellation notices throwing over 100 million people off their company plans.
Obama and the Democrats knew back in 2010 both individual and company insurance plans would be cancelled due to ObamaCare and just continued to lie to the American people.
2014 is coming and it will make 2010 look like a church social for the Democrats. I only hope the Republicans don't dance on their dicks too much and win a veto proof majority to insure there is no ink in Obama's veto pen. Then we can get back to a sane domestic and foreign policy.[/QUOTE]
I am early 60's current plan with major carrier in a state with minimal regulation us $1968 monthly $6000/$12000. Deductibles in / out network; co-insurance, no mental health, dental I do have a health savings account. I have a $5,000,000. Lifetime cap. $1,000,000, CP is cheaper.
New policy for 1/1/2014 major carrier with all my doctors on network gold $950 month; and silver w / health saving account $860.
Both new policies have mental health and dental which was not offered by my prior carrier. Unlimited cap--I can get cancer or need by=pass surgery with complication and not run out of insurance coverage. Every year I have shopped.
If I went with a solid, but lower quality carrier, then could get simular plans $650/ $525. Monthly and have to give up most of my doctors. My doctors are highly quality, busy and will not deal with the second tier carriers who delay and play around with payments. Where I live there is almost no insurance regulation.
I have checked with about 20 people I know over 50 who all have similar stories and will get coverage without going near the federal website.
Agents still sell health insurance and there are private sites up and running.
Then purpose of the mandates is to push younger, more healthy people into buying coverage through economic incentives. Simular to the way the USA pushes wealthy agricultural companies to produce what fits into the national interestseg large payments to influence the crops they plant or don't plant.
Rock posted links to basic social science articles about what happens historically when the economic elites get too much of the wealth and power--society falls apart. If you only are thinking about your own pocket for the next few years, Rock's point makes no sense. If you are thinking that the noble experiment that is the USA is something important that we would like to see strengthened to last another 100 years+, then Rock's articles are very vital. Try to seach: distribution of wealth USA you will be shocked.
The only thing you need the federal site for is subsides. And to give the tv and media pundits something to fill up airtime.
Why don't the pundits just mention that private insurance agents can do the policy placements, help with applications and getting the subsidy info into the system.
Thank God up above for the affordible care act. I will save $14,000. A year for much better coverage.
[QUOTE=MiamiBob;436838]Thank God up above for the affordible care act. I will save $14,000. A year for much better coverage.[/QUOTE]Whatever you save, somebody else must pay, ostensibly the throngs of younger citizens that appear to be salivating at the prospect, given the massive numbers of them that have already signed up for ObamaCare.
[QUOTE=RockHarders;436831]This is inaccurate information. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had absolutely nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts and were not applicable in either case.[/QUOTE]You're right about that. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had absolutely nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts because the Obama administration completely ignored the country's bankruptcy laws.
http://acadeathspiral.org/2013/11/27/proposed-cuts-in-transitional-reinsurance-could-increase-exchange-premiums-7-8-in-2015/
This website is neither right nor left oriented. There are problems in fine tuning a major change in public policy--what's new? Nothing except the federal legislative branch is about 98% non-functional. This is the real problem.
I respect the need to hear 1000 voices......Including the Libertarian point of view.
The reality is that complex policy changes need more than 30 second new spots to become understandable. The current political system for electing the congress does not work well. The roll of big money is elections is warping the system. The districting system is horrendous.
When Jeb Bush is too moderate to run for national office, there is a major problem.[NoteJebwasmygovernorfor8years--He is smarter and is far more conservative than his father and/or brother]
[QUOTE=MiamiBob;436838]
I have checked with about 20 people I know over 50 who all have similar stories and will get coverage without going near the federal website.
Agents still sell health insurance and there are private sites up and running.
Then purpose of the mandates is to push younger, more healthy people into buying coverage through economic incentives. Simular to the way the USA pushes wealthy agricultural companies to produce what fits into the national interestseg large payments to influence the crops they plant or don't plant.
Rock posted links to basic social science articles about what happens historically when the economic elites get too much of the wealth and power--society falls apart. If you only are thinking about your own pocket for the next few years, Rock's point makes no sense. If you are thinking that the noble experiment that is the USA is something important that we would like to see strengthened to last another 100 years+, then Rock's articles are very vital. Try to seach: distribution of wealth USA you will be shocked.
[/QUOTE]Interesting. Then you can add Obamacare to Medicare and Social Security as programs where older Americans take advantage of future generations, by taking much more out of the system than they put it. Our children and grandchildren won't have a prayer, just massive amounts of debt to repay.
RH like many on the left doesn't consider the changes in the tax system that occurred effective 1/1/2013. The USA has a very progressive tax system. The idea that you can just tax the top 1% more to pay for unfunded entitlements and voracious federal spending and avoid an economic catastrophe is a pipe dream. The money isn't there. High federal taxes in the USA on successful businesses and individuals means the economy won't grow as fast, and all will be worse off, although more equal.
Stagnation of middle class incomes has occurred not just in the USA but in the more developed countries all over the world. You can chalk it up mostly to technology and globalization. Yes we could go back to manufacturing things by hand instead of machines, or take jobs away from people in 3rd world countries who would then struggle to survive. And the world would be a worse place for most people. But the USA, Europe and Japan would be more equal, if that's the objective.
-Slithering Fascist Tiny
[QUOTE=MiamiBob;436838]Then purpose of the mandates is to push younger, more healthy people into buying coverage through economic incentives. Simular to the way the USA pushes wealthy agricultural companies to produce what fits into the national interestseg large payments to influence the crops they plant or don't plant.
Rock posted links to basic social science articles about what happens historically when the economic elites get too much of the wealth and power--society falls apart. If you only are thinking about your own pocket for the next few years, Rock's point makes no sense. If you are thinking that the noble experiment that is the USA is something important that we would like to see strengthened to last another 100 years+, then Rock's articles are very vital. Try to seach: distribution of wealth USA you will be shocked.
The only thing you need the federal site for is subsides. And to give the tv and media pundits something to fill up airtime.
Why don't the pundits just mention that private insurance agents can do the policy placements, help with applications and getting the subsidy info into the system.
Thank God up above for the affordible care act. I will save $14,000. A year for much better coverage.[/QUOTE]The hate for Obama over trumps everything. Why the hate, you ask?
[QUOTE=Jackson;436842]You're right about that. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had absolutely nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts because the Obama administration completely ignored the country's bankruptcy laws.[/QUOTE]Wrong. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts because Chapter 13 CANNOT be used for individuals or organizations with over $360,475 USD in unsecured debt. Just more totally unsubstantiated rhetoric from the fascist wing of AP, who continue to prove that THEY only care about emotion (and whatever they were told by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh) and make not effort to cite any actual facts.
[QUOTE=RockHarders;436854]Just more totally unsubstantiated rhetoric from the fascist wing of AP, who continue to prove that THEY only care about emotion (and whatever they were told by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh) and make not effort to cite any actual facts.[/QUOTE]Hey Rock,
Apparently you missed an important day in civics class, so let me enlighten you.
According to the Webster dictionary, fascism is "[I]a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government, very harsh control or authority[/I]."
I don't know anyone on this website who espouses a desire for "[I]a government ruled by a dictator[/I]".
The definition much more accurately describes your hero Obama than it does me.
Thanks,
Jax
[B][size=3]Of course, the most important thing is that we're not talking about the ObamaCare diaster![/size][/B]
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For the record, I am [u]NOT[/u] a Republican, and I am [u]NOT[/u] a conservative.
- I am [u]against[/u] the death penalty.
- I am [u]against[/u] [u]any[/u] government support of religious organizations.
- I am [u]for[/u] the legalization of recreational drugs.
- I am [u]for[/u] the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am [u]for[/u] a woman's right to choose.
- I am [u]for[/u] comprehensive sex education.
- I am [u]for[/u] a foreign guest worker program.
- I am [u]for[/u] a universal flat tax on [u]EVERYONE'S[/u] income.
- I am [u]for[/u] health [u]INSURANCE[/u] reform.
- I am [u]for[/u] health [u]JUSTICE[/u] reform.
I am a member of the Libertarian Party, registered as an Independent.
[QUOTE=RockHarders;436854] Just more totally unsubstantiated rhetoric from the fascist wing of AP, who continue to prove that THEY only care about emotion (and whatever they were told by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh) and make not effort to cite any actual facts.[/QUOTE]Doppelganger confused Chapter 13 with Chapter 11. So what? Just more nitpicking from the fascist / neo-corporatist wing of AP, who continue to prove that THEY only care about emotion (and whatever they were told by MSNBC and Rachel Maddow) and make no effort to provide any substantive, real-world evidence.
[QUOTE=RockHarders;436831]This is inaccurate information. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had absolutely nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts and were not applicable in either case.[/QUOTE]If you READ the first sentence of the post I clearly indicated Obama circumvented the United States Bankruptcy Code and took both GM & Chrysler into a totally illegal quasi-bankruptcy proceeding I referred to as "Obama-ruptcy". Chapter 11 was what both company's and all other companies normally follow when attempting to reorganize. A good example of reorganization would be the airline industry, many carriers have entered bankruptcy for reorganization and one of the many results is court authorization to void labor contracts.
Are you trying to say this did not happen? Are you trying to say GM did not pay off it's initial bailout loan with another loan from the government?
I clearly stated Obama used this quasi-bankruptcy proceeding made up from whole cloth to shield the UAW and prevent GM & Chrysler from entering a full Chapter 11 reorganization so as not to have their labor contracts with UAW voided, not to mention their retirement and healthcare benefits, while striping the equity holders and transferring its value in part to the UAW.
Please do a bit of research before posting. There are many articles regarding this matter.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;436863]If you READ the first sentence of the post I clearly indicated Obama circumvented the United States Bankruptcy Code and took both GM & Chrysler into a totally illegal quasi-bankruptcy proceeding I referred to as "Obama-ruptcy". Chapter 11 was what both company's and all other companies normally follow when attempting to reorganize. A good example of reorganization would be the airline industry, many carriers have entered bankruptcy for reorganization and one of the many results is court authorization to void labor contracts.
Are you trying to say this did not happen? Are you trying to say GM did not pay off it's initial bailout loan with another loan from the government?
I clearly stated Obama used this quasi-bankruptcy proceeding made up from whole cloth to shield the UAW and prevent GM & Chrysler from entering a full Chapter 11 reorganization so as not to have their labor contracts with UAW voided, not to mention their retirement and healthcare benefits, while striping the equity holders and transferring its value in part to the UAW.
Please do a bit of research before posting. There are many articles regarding this matter.[/QUOTE]You claimed that Chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code was used; this was false information and I called you out on it, simple as that.
[QUOTE=RockHarders;436866]You claimed that Chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code was used; this was false information and I called you out on it, simple as that.[/QUOTE]Technically, he said that in fact Chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code wasn't being used. That was the crux of his comments.
Your retort about Chapter 13 vs Chapter 11 was just more liberal obfuscation of the real issue.
[B][size=3]Of course, the most important thing is that we're not talking about the ObamaCare diaster![/size][/B]
[QUOTE=Jackson;436867]Technically, he said that in fact Chapter 13 of the bankruptcy code wasn't being used. That was the crux of his comments.
Your retort about Chapter 13 vs Chapter 11 was just more liberal obfuscation of the real issue.
[B]Of course, the most important thing is that we're not talking about the ObamaCare diaster![/B][/QUOTE]Wrong again. The real issue is that the auto bailouts were successful and today there are two financially viable AMERICAN auto companies that would NOT exist "as is" had the USG not stepped in before they totally imploded.