Argentine Economy

Profits could turn this place around in 10 to 20 years. The agricultural wealth is real and the policies which push away capital investments are a stone wall to progress. This place in a major importer of potash, yet it has some of the largest potash reserves in the world. Odd, but true. No one wants to make the investments needed.

Getting away from anything that has to do with business, there few argentines who I know well and truly consider friends, are wonderful people who value friendship far more than it is generally valued in the culture in the good old USA. On friends day--that exists all over the world except in the USA--I get emails from all sorts of argentines I have done favors for in the past.

The people are a a good lot. Anything that has to do with making money in BA tends to be stilted and warped.

WW, Argentina was very prosperous before, during and just after WWII. They were selling agricultural productions to both England and Germany during the war and making a killing. When they built the Colon, Germany provided all the electronics to make it the largest most advanced opera house in the world at that time. I want to say the British build and owned the rail road. Argentina was thought of as a major power in the world at that time.

The country and most notably the military was split between the Allies and Axis but leaned toward Germany. Argentina remained neutral until nearly the end of the war, when it became obvious the Allies would win, Argentina declared war on Germany, Italy was already out of the war then.

Fact or fiction?

[URL]http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.iprofesional.com/notas/157324-La-cruda-realidad-de-los-sojeros-venden-un-dlar-les-dan-39-centavos-y-deben-pagar-casi-80-de-impuestos&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8[/URL]

[URL]http://www.iprofesional.com/notas/157324-La-cruda-realidad-de-los-sojeros-venden-un-dlar-les-dan-39-centavos-y-deben-pagar-casi-80-de-impuestos[/URL]

Below is a link to an excellent article about the nationalization of YPF.- One year later.

[URL]http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/argentina-nationalized-oil-industry-nothing-232525794.html[/URL]

Tres3.

They should try capitalism, the real thing not the mixed economy we have in the USA.

Don B.

Argentina is getting good at defaulting!

[URL]http://www.thestreet.com/story/11855729/1/salmon-why-argentina-will-default-in-2013.html[/URL]

Here we go again!

TL.

[QUOTE=Tres3;433227]Below is a link to an excellent article about the nationalization of YPF.- One year later.

[URL]http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/argentina-nationalized-oil-industry-nothing-232525794.html[/URL]

Tres3.[/QUOTE]In discussing why Argentina was having a hard time getting new foreign investments, I had to laugh when the writer of the article noted that when Chinese and Russian companies "are complaining about the lack of legal guarantees, you know you have a problem.

Posted today on youtube is a 2 and one-half minute "interview" of the Finance Minister. The interview is mostly in Spanish but you don't need fluency to understand his reactions. That minister's reaction tells me that there will be opportunities in the not-so-far-off future to purchase land, farms or classic cars.

Here is the link: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EkHGLkCYnMY[/url]

Text to search in case link doesn't work: #MeQuieroIr #Lorenzino EN ESPANOL [OFICIAL]

Dark-haired women is not the only attractive aspect of Argentina.

It is comical to see these douche bags finally run away from the mic when they know that their opportunity to play the Wizard of Oz is over.

[i]"Everything is fine. Nothing to worry about, here. The blue rate is only rapidly approaching 10 due to speculators and other unsavory, subhuman parasites. We've done everything correctly. It is only that the world hasn't responded to our actions that has prevented us from visiting Utopia."[/i]

Actually shows me just how incompetent and naive are the people who run Argentina.

Any US politician could handle such a question easily, obfuscate effectively and look the camera straight in the eye.


[QUOTE=WildWalleye;433342]It is comical to see these douche bags finally run away from the mic when they know that their opportunity to play the Wizard of Oz is over.

[i]"Everything is fine. Nothing to worry about, here. The blue rate is only rapidly approaching 10 due to speculators and other unsavory, subhuman parasites. We've done everything correctly. It is only that the world hasn't responded to our actions that has prevented us from visiting Utopia."[/i][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Canardly;433363]Actually shows me just how incompetent and naive are the people who run Argentina.

Any US politician could handle such a question easily, obfuscate effectively and look the camera straight in the eye.[/QUOTE]How about Bernanke being cornered by Ron Paul on inflation? I think they are a couple of videos on You Tube about that.

Always something to learn Sir!

Argentine Economy, I give it 6 months or less.

[URL]http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/heres-why-argentina-must-be-dollarized-now.html/?ref=YF[/URL]

Exon.

A snippet from an interesting article about the Argentine economy, politics, and culture:

Argentina is really two different countries. First, there is Buenos Aires, which is a big city and contains by far the largest percentage of the country's population. In BA there is a bit of crime, and in certain parts of the city you are going to have more crime, but generally speaking, you would be surprised to know that you were in the beating heart of a crisis. Restaurants are full; the stores are open and full of very nice stuff. Second, there are the provinces, which are mostly rural and agriculturally oriented. Here the central government's authority is weak, and the people are relaxed. The quality of life is tremendous. This is not just the case for Americans, or people who are non-peso based; it's pretty much for everyone. Food in a place like Cafayate, where we live, is so cheap it's almost free. You can walk out of a store with a huge bag of fresh produce and it's going to set you back only a few bucks. A kilo of fine tenderloin will cost you maybe five dollars. Back here in the US a couple of days ago I paid $22 for less than a pound of steak. Then there's the cost of labor. In Argentina, we have an extremely competent maid who comes in for five hours a day, five days a week and does all the cleaning and laundry – drudge work that people in the Western world have learned to view as an unavoidable part of life – and the cost is all of about $40 a week.

So, despite the overarching reality that the government is dysfunctional and that this is currently being evidenced in the inflation, the quality of life in Argentina for anyone with a few bucks is very, very high.

The full article is at:

[URL]http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1370453660.php[/URL]

[QUOTE=Yujin;434023]A snippet from an interesting article about the Argentine economy, politics, and culture:

Argentina is really two different countries. First, there is Buenos Aires, which is a big city and contains by far the largest percentage of the country's population. In BA there is a bit of crime, and in certain parts of the city you are going to have more crime, but generally speaking, you would be surprised to know that you were in the beating heart of a crisis. Restaurants are full; the stores are open and full of very nice stuff. Second, there are the provinces, which are mostly rural and agriculturally oriented. Here the central government's authority is weak, and the people are relaxed. The quality of life is tremendous. This is not just the case for Americans, or people who are non-peso based; it's pretty much for everyone. Food in a place like Cafayate, where we live, is so cheap it's almost free. You can walk out of a store with a huge bag of fresh produce and it's going to set you back only a few bucks. A kilo of fine tenderloin will cost you maybe five dollars. Back here in the US a couple of days ago I paid $22 for less than a pound of steak. Then there's the cost of labor. In Argentina, we have an extremely competent maid who comes in for five hours a day, five days a week and does all the cleaning and laundry – drudge work that people in the Western world have learned to view as an unavoidable part of life – and the cost is all of about $40 a week.

So, despite the overarching reality that the government is dysfunctional and that this is currently being evidenced in the inflation, the quality of life in Argentina for anyone with a few bucks is very, very high.

The full article is at:

[URL]http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1370453660.php[/URL][/QUOTE]You seem to be in a time warp. Prices seem to be cheaper in the states for far superior products then here in Argentina! If you live on the west coast you get produce from Chile in the winter, just like we do here. Why does it cost twice as much here compared to California and Nevada? Why do the people in the states receive nice fresh produce and here its old and ready to throw away? I'm glad you found a competent maid. Most labor here is incompetent! That and it is no longer cheap! Five years ago you could pay a brick layer 75 pesos a day, now they want over 300! Then they build a wall that looks like a snake! A house in a nice area here is valued at twice what it would cost in the US (excluding areas like downtown Boston, new York, etc). And at least the house in the US would not blow away in a small storm! Argentina is a nice country, it has a lot of potential. But the government and most of its inhabitants need to pull their heads out of their a $$es and get a grip on the real world and not in this fantasy world where they believe that Argentina is among the best of the best!

100% in agreement with absolutely EVERYTHING that Gandolf says!

Apparently Argentina is 3 different countries. BA, the provinces and the fairytale land where the guy in that article lives!

Having said that, I read the whole article and the guy is pretty much spot on with the rest of his assessments:

[quote]A good way to think about Argentina is that it is an immigrant society, very much like the US, except that the dominating culture emerging from the melting pot was Italian. This is why Argentines tend to be famous for their dark good looks, vibrant culture, and excellent food. Unfortunately, they also inherited "Italian style" politics. I think that's a useful context for understanding the consistent dysfunctioning of the Argentine government.

This at least partially explains Argentina's long love affair with the Peróns. The country had one of the most successful economies in the world until Juan Peróand came into power and destroyed it. And, with some rare bright spots, it's gone through long periods of financial crisis ever since. Despite that, the Perónistas are still very much in charge.

If you look at the history of financial crises in Argentina, you will see there is almost no 10-year period when there isn't a financial crisis. As a result, the population has become extremely resilient in the face of financial crises. When you mention the faltering state of the economy, every Argentine you talk to will shrug and make a comment along the lines of, "No problem; this is Argentina, we're used to it." In other words, they have become fatalistic about such things.

But that doesn't mean they are complacent, because thanks to their long experiences with financial crises Argentines have become masters at dealing with things like inflation and ridiculous government policies. For the most part, the government is highly ineffective, and so the Argentines just ignore it. Reasonably intelligent people always figure out ways to work around whatever the latest decree the government comes up with, then they tell their family members and friends. The word spreads so that in no time at all, the populace at large has figured out how to deal with the government's latest misstep, as often as not turning it to their personal advantage. As a consequence, there is a very robust underground economy; if people can do business off the books, they do. Argentines pride themselves on their ability to outsmart the government."

"The current Argentine government is dominated by true believers – young people who have that idealistic notion of equality for all, and who believe that government mandates can fix anything that ails. They are hardcore socialists, leaning towards communism. But, as is the case in the United States, they really don't know what they are doing and so pursue policies that are incredibly shortsighted. They are uninformed as far as history and economics are concerned and blunder from one harebrained policy to another. There is literally nothing that they will not try.

It is like a textbook case in government gone mad.

They have stolen the retirement accounts, devalued the currency, and put capital controls in place. There are trade controls so that people can't import necessities into the country, but instead, have to manufacture them locally, with the government giving monopolies to their friends. They have price controls, which force the local supermarkets to not raise their prices. This will ultimately lead to shortages. And there are already shortages of certain items. They didn't like an opposition newspaper, so they nationalized the newsprint manufacturing industry. In fact, just about every single thing that you could do to screw up a country, they have done. It is comical to see the extremes they have gone to. For example, in Argentina, if you publish an inflation statistic that differs from of the official government numbers, you could be hit with a $100,000 fine. I had never heard of this anywhere else – except maybe in communist Russia. They are really completely out of control and the country is spinning off into la-la-land.[/quote]

DaveW & Gandolf50, the article was written by a member of Casey Research. They own property in Argentina and pimp Argentina to their readers. I wouldn't take their word on Argentina or any other investment. Overseas investment, overseas living and regular travel writers all seem to follow the same methodology. They write fantasy to sell the dream. Facts would be detrimental to their bottom line.

[QUOTE=Dccpa;434077]They write fantasy to sell the dream. Facts would be detrimental to their bottom line.[/QUOTE]They fit right in here then! Thats sort of what Cristina and Moreno do all day every day!

Lotsa news:

[URL]http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/145585/big-economic-changes-on-the-way[/URL]

From a November 2012 to November 2013 perspective, streets are cleaner. Restaurants are full on weekday nights. Daddy Rulz has introduced me to two restaurants that have opened in the past year. Big construction projects in Downtown with streets shutdown.

Can someone here explain these sentences from the article Doggboy's link pointed to?

Economists agree that through circumstances, tourism is one of the major causes of the drop in reserves, a problem that. Could be solved by implementing a tourism dollar rate. The existence of a black market entices tourists to change their dollars. At higher rates, with most of that money not entering Argentina's economy.

The sentences seems to be about me, because certainly I use the black market for the higher exchange rate. But then there is that remark saying that those pesos I receive do not enter the Argentine economy. I don't get that. Every peso I receive I spend in Argentina. They sure aren't any good anyplace else. I leave many dollars here. Why is it my fault that there's a drop in Argentina's reserves?

Bob.

[QUOTE=AllIWantIsLove;436661]Can someone here explain these sentences from the article Doggboy's link pointed to?

Economists agree that through circumstances, tourism is one of the major causes of the drop in reserves, a problem that. Could be solved by implementing a tourism dollar rate. The existence of a black market entices tourists to change their dollars. At higher rates, with most of that money not entering Argentina's economy.

The sentences seems to be about me, because certainly I use the black market for the higher exchange rate. But then there is that remark saying that those pesos I receive do not enter the Argentine economy. I don't get that. Every peso I receive I spend in Argentina. They sure aren't any good anyplace else. I leave many dollars here. Why is it my fault that there's a drop in Argentina's reserves?

Bob.[/QUOTE]That it wasn't entering through the government reserves. It's obviously entering the economy but because 2 out of three people aren't [B]Stupid[/B] enough to buy their pesos at the official rate then the Argentine Government is missing 66% of their opportunity to steal 40% of the value off the top of the tourist dollars.

[QUOTE=AllIWantIsLove;436661] Could be solved by implementing a tourism dollar rate.
[/QUOTE]A tourism rate might work in a predominantly honest country. Argentina, on the other hand, has so much corruption and dishonesty that all a tourist rate would do is give another avenue of corruption, dishonesty, and thievery.

Tres3.

[URL]http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/145916/cristina[/URL]'s-last-stand.

Stranger.

[QUOTE=Stranger;436770][URL]http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/145916/cristina[/URL]'s-last-stand.

Stranger.[/QUOTE]Good article. I laughed my ass off at the opening sentence...

"[I]Cristina’s economic “model”... was put together by a bunch of cranks devoted to the writings of long-dead polemicists who did their best to make out that Argentina was the innocent victim of wicked Anglo-Saxon imperialists who, for their own nasty purposes, prevented it from becoming the industrial powerhouse God had intended.[/I]"

Thanks,

Jax.

Too bad that Argentina didn't learn more from the Anglo-Saxon imperialists. Here are some quotes from an essay / book by Daniel Hanna, "Inventing Freedom: How the English-Speaking Peoples Made the Modern World." He has some lessons for the USA, as well as countries like Argentina.

[I]Outside North America, most of the Anglosphere is an extended archipelago: Great Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Singapore, the more democratic Caribbean states. What made the Anglosphere different? Foreign visitors through the centuries remarked on a number of peculiar characteristics. They wondered at the stubborn elevation of private property over raison d'état, of personal freedom over collective need.

British exceptionalism, like its American cousin, has traditionally been held to reside in a series of values and institutions: personal liberty, free contract, jury trials, uncensored newspapers, regular elections, habeas corpus, open competition, secure property, religious pluralism.

The conceit of our era is to assume that these ideals are somehow the natural condition of an advanced society—that all nations will get around to them once they become rich enough and educated enough. In fact, these ideals were developed overwhelmingly in the language in which you are reading these words. You don't have to go back very far to find a time when freedom under the law was more or less confined to the Anglosphere: the community of English-speaking democracies.

Freedom under the law is a portable commodity, passed on through intellectual exchange rather than gene flow. Anyone can benefit from constitutional liberty simply by adopting the right institutions and the cultural assumptions that go with them. The Anglosphere is why Bermuda is not Haiti, why Singapore is not Indonesia, why Hong Kong is not China—and, for that matter, not Macau. As the distinguished Indian writer Madhav Das Nalapat, holder of the Unesco Peace Chair, puts it, the Anglosphere is defined not by racial affinity but "by the blood of the mind."

[B]There is, of course, a flip-side. If the U.S. abandons its political structures, it will lose its identity more thoroughly than states that define nationality by blood or territory. Power is shifting from the 50 states to Washington, D.C., from elected representatives to federal bureaucrats, from citizens to the government. As the U.S. moves toward European-style health care, day care, college education, carbon taxes, foreign policy and spending levels, so it becomes less prosperous, less confident and less free.

Which brings us back to Mr. Obama's curiously qualified defense of American exceptionalism. Outside the Anglosphere, people have traditionally expected—indeed, demanded—far more state intervention. They look to the government to solve their problems, and when the government fails, they become petulant.

That is the point that much of Europe has reached now. Greeks, like many Europeans, spent decades increasing their consumption without increasing their production. They voted for politicians who promised to keep the good times going and rejected those who argued for fiscal restraint. Even now, as the calamity overwhelms them, they refuse to take responsibility for their own affairs by leaving the euro and running their own economy. It's what happens when an electorate is systematically infantilized.[/B][/I]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;436773]Too bad that Argentina didn't learn more from the Anglo-Saxon imperialists. Here are some quotes from an essay / book by Daniel Hanna, "Inventing Freedom: How the English-Speaking Peoples Made the Modern World." He has some lessons for the USA, as well as countries like Argentina.

[B]There is, of course, a flip-side. If the U.S. abandons its political structures, it will lose its identity more thoroughly than states that define nationality by blood or territory. Power is shifting from the 50 states to Washington, D.C., from elected representatives to federal bureaucrats, from citizens to the government. As the U.S. moves toward European-style health care, day care, college education, carbon taxes, foreign policy and spending levels, so it becomes less prosperous, less confident and less free.

Which brings us back to Mr. Obama's curiously qualified defense of American exceptionalism. Outside the Anglosphere, people have traditionally expected—indeed, demanded—far more state intervention. They look to the government to solve their problems, and when the government fails, they become petulant.

That is the point that much of Europe has reached now. Greeks, like many Europeans, spent decades increasing their consumption without increasing their production. They voted for politicians who promised to keep the good times going and rejected those who argued for fiscal restraint. Even now, as the calamity overwhelms them, they refuse to take responsibility for their own affairs by leaving the euro and running their own economy. It's what happens when an electorate is systematically infantilized.[/B][/I][/QUOTE]

Yes, Britain and America have taught the world a lot about democracy and prosperity. Yes, Argentina wastes its considerable resources. But why focus on the Greeks in Europe? The fact is that Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Switzerland are currently more free and are growing more rapidly in terms of prosperity than the United States. All of these countries, whether they use the Euro or not, provide excellent government-sponsored health care, day care, and college education. Denmark, a country without oil, is carbon neutral at this point and provides a model of sustainability for future generations. People in these countries pay taxes and they get a prosperous society with little violence in return. Private enterprise is rewarded and appreciated. Rich people do well, but so do the working classes. The naivete of so-called libertarianism is properly rejected as infantile selfishness. I did want to get your word infantile in there.

The northern Europeans have much to teach the U. S. at this point in history. Why is it that so many Americans reject plain facts in favor of outdated ideology? There's a whole real world out there beyond standard U. S. talk radio propaganda.

[URL]http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/149364/us-top-court-agrees-to-hear-argentina-bank-subpoenas-case[/URL] (Buenos Aires Herald)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-10/argentina-gets-u-s-supreme-court-hearing-in-bank-case.html (Bloomberg)



The SCOTUS agrees to hear the Argentina Bank Subpoena case. .

[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25836208[/URL]

50% tax, seems excessive. I think guys coming there could bring a few items to resell.

For years I have touted the virtues of Montevideo. After many trips to MVD I found the food was good the hotels and apartments inexpensive and of course the p4 p as inexpensive and worth the price. OK things have changed. Recently I was in MVD for a week. Prices have gone up. Everything has gone up. After my week comitment I took the ferry to BA. I rented an apartment in Palermo and the food in that area was much better than I had remembered. I indulged in the p4 p twice and it was cheaper and better that I can remember...OK I am planning a return to BA in February. A few more trips and I may move here..

REGARDS THE HOTROD.

Anybody can buy up to 2000 dollars a month for savings so long as you earn more than 7200 pesos per month. And if you don't deposit them in a bank (remember 2001) you pay a 20% surcharge.

[URL]http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/150681/government-unveils-details-of-its-plan-to-allow-dollar-sales-for-savings-[/URL]

Where to start?

Our currency sucks so bad we understand you want to save in another.

Sure you can buy them just apply here. (no not you, nor you, or you, nope not you either).

Trust us, you can put this in the bank..

I probably should have posted this in the "Weird Argie Things" thread, it's nothing but smoke and mirrors.

[QUOTE=DaddyRulz;437863]Anybody can buy up to 2000 dollars a month for savings so long as you earn more than 7200 pesos per month. And if you don't deposit them in a bank (remember 2001) you pay a 20% surcharge.[/QUOTE]Any idea if you'd be able to withdraw USD paper money from your account? It sounds like it might be 2001 in reverse -- you pay 12 pesos for your dollars, deposit them to the bank, then when you go to withdraw you get 8 pesos.

I suspect this is a ploy, part of the plan for the central bank to get more foreign reserves to try to prevent a currency free fall and even higher inflation. Somehow Ms. Kirchner is going to get her hands on those dollars.

On Wednesday, when her speech was carried live by all television channels in a national broadcast, President Fernández de Kirchner spoke to announce a plan to grant subsidies of 600 pesos a month to 1.5 million destitute 18-24 year-old youths.

Her announcement raises two questions:

1. Where exactly is she going to get the money? Perhaps from the magical "[I]Subsidy Fairy[/I]"?

2. Can anyone tell me again exactly how I will "[I]benefit enormously[/I]" from this "[I]trickle up[/I]" subsidy?

It's sad to watch liberal politicians as they start to sound like aging athletes who just can't accept that they're policies have failed as they continue to promise even more free money in exchange for votes.

Very sad.

Thanks,

Jax.