American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Esten;438730][b]Facts matter[/b][/QUOTE][U][b]Here's some facts for you,[/b][/U]

I can't keep my Doctor!

I can't keep my policy!

I did not get a $2500 reduction in my health care premium!

[B][size=+1]And those are facts, Jack![/size][/B]

[QUOTE=Punter127;438731][U][b]Here's some facts for you,[/b][/U]

I can't keep my Doctor!

I can't keep my policy!

I did not get a $2500 reduction in my health care premium![/QUOTE]Punter, Esten notes that "Democrats are very proud of the Affordable Care Act," which will provide health insurance to Americans. Except for the 30 million that still won't have it in 2022, according to the CBO. Therefore I am highly skeptical of your claims. Let's review the facts.

(1) There is no evidence that you can't keep your Doctor.

(2) There is no evidence that you can't keep your policy.

(3) There is no evidence that you did not get a $2500 reduction in your health care premium.

Please note that anything you say will not be accepted as evidence. You might be lying. Therefore you must produce evidence supported by the body of information reported in the media in order for the evidence to be accepted. If your physician and insurance company are under ethical or legal restrictions that prohibit them from disclosing to the press that you are no longer a client, then you've got a problem. Furthermore, and this is important, you must establish that your doctor and your insurance company were involved in COORDINATED ACTIVITY before we will accept that either dropped you.

Statistical evidence absolutely will not be accepted. If your insurance company dropped 90% of its customers in your state, that's not evidence. So that you may better understand this point, you may compare it to what a New York Times blogger and the House Ways and Means Committee staff produced for the number of approvals granted by the IRS for Tea Party versus Progressive groups. That's not valid. Numbers just confuse me.

Finally, hypothetically, what if a Mr. Clois Clerner, a high level bureaucrat at Health & Human Services, wrote that "the Punter matter is very dangerous," because it could be used to reinforce a court ruling on Obamacare that the Administration believes helped Republicans? Nope, that doesn't wash. Facts and evidence are the exclusive domain of those on the left. Everything else is a duck painting.

Most of you republicans do not care about the Facts.

Christiebridgegate.

He hired his own investigators.

Not one of his appointees has been interviewed.

Jackson.

One Big Cover Up.

Lets hear your Cover up reasons?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438733]Everything else is a duck painting.[/QUOTE]A duck painting?

[QUOTE=Jackson;438740]A duck painting?[/QUOTE]Jackson, see my post regarding if walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck it might be a duck post and Esten's comment.

Esten's asserts I and all conservatives are deluded conspiracy nuts and when using the above yard stick we are only looking at a photo of a duck, sort of misses the point but that's Esten.

My response to Esten and his points in his earlier post is: PROVE YOUR 'FACTS' THAT NONE OF THE INCIDENTS HAPPENED.

You night note this is using the Left's favorite ploy of asking you to prove a negative.

Should be entertaining to watch Esten twist in the wind on this one.

Remember Learner is the one who leaked the fact the IRS was improperly targeting conservative groups.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;438741]J

Should be entertaining to watch Esten twist in the wind on this one.[/QUOTE]The best way to watch Esten twist in the wind, is to ignore him and his posts. Unless Esten is posting about pussy (I will give him the benefit of the doubt) he is unable to separate fact from fiction.

Tres3

[QUOTE=Tres3;438742]The best way to watch Esten twist in the wind, is to ignore him and his posts. Unless Esten is posting about pussy (I will give him the benefit of the doubt) he is unable to separate fact from fiction.

Tres3[/QUOTE]Au contraire.

Esten provides us with ongoing examples of the kind of arguments concocted by the left to manipulate the LIV.

In tandem, WT69 provides us with ongoing examples of the results of those efforts.

Thanks,

Jax.

[B][size=+1]CA State Sen. Leland Yee Indicted for Arms Trafficking After Supporting Assault Weapons Ban[/size][/B]

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;438734]Most of you republicans do not care about the Facts.[/QUOTE]"On March 26th gun control proponent and California state senator Leland Yee (D) was indicted on charges of arms trafficking and public corruption.".

"The Associated Press reports that Yee was to receive campaign donations in exchange for various favors, including acquiring arms from a Muslim rebel group. The people with whom the deals were made turned out to be undercover FBI agents.".

[URL]http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/03/26/CA-State-Senator-Who-Supported-Assault-Weapons-Ban-Indicted-On-Arms-Trafficking[/URL]

We hear a lot of anti-gun BS, and whining about Chris Christie and a traffic jam from WT69, but not one word from him about a gun trafficking Democrat right under his nose. Go figure.

[QUOTE=Punter127;438731][U][b]Here's some facts for you,[/b][/U]

I can't keep my Doctor!

I can't keep my policy!

I did not get a $2500 reduction in my health care premium!

[B]And those are facts, Jack![/B][/QUOTE]Glad to see you posting some facts. It's refreshing from all the conspiracy nonsense. It's unfortunate you were in the 5% that couldn't keep your policy, but while the ACA was a factor, maybe you should also consider how much this was your insurance company's decision. About 95% of insured Americans kept their policies. The $2500 reduction was only for a family of four. And it was only "up to" a $2500 reduction, although Obama did not consistently use this qualifier, or his qualifiers on keeping your plan. He oversimplified and overpromised on many occasions, that's a fact and a valid criticism. Of course, this is the consistent right wing myopic focus only on anything negative. Breitbart and Fox News probably didn't run any positive ACA stories, so maybe I'll post one.

[b]“Oh my goodness, that's terrible”... Those Evil Insurance Companies![/b]

[QUOTE=Esten;438751]Glad to see you posting some facts. It's refreshing from all the conspiracy nonsense. It's unfortunate you were in the 5% that couldn't keep your policy, but while the ACA was a factor, maybe you should also consider how much this was your insurance company's decision. About 95% of insured Americans kept their policies. The $2500 reduction was only for a family of four. And it was only "up to" a $2500 reduction, although Obama did not consistently use this qualifier, or his qualifiers on keeping your plan. He oversimplified and overpromised on many occasions, that's a fact and a valid criticism. Of course, this is the consistent right wing myopic focus only on anything negative. Breitbart and Fox News probably didn't run any positive ACA stories, so maybe I'll post one.[/QUOTE]”There is no evidence” that the insurance companies are to blame, they followed the law as written. Something Obama should try.

BadMan said it best when he said:
[QUOTE=BadMan;437250]
And by the way, fuckk Obama care. Its worthless beyond belief. It was written by the same insurance companies it was supposed to rein in.[snip][/QUOTE] And he was also right when he said:
[QUOTE=BadMan;437297]I understand some people like the illusion of socialized and or affordable healthcare but obamacare isn't that. Its a farce.

All in all, the numbers don't lie.

[URL]http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/529f386569bedd1b34e32de8-538/obama-approval-rating.jpg[/URL][/QUOTE] With you it's always somebody else's fault either you're trying to be deceptive or Tres3 had it right when he said:
[QUOTE=Tres3;438742] Unless Esten is posting about pussy (I will give him the benefit of the doubt) he is unable to separate fact from fiction.[snip] [/QUOTE] Which is it?

Why don't you just admit ObamaCare is a complete cluster fuck, it's reminiscent of Prohibition. The American people are very forgive to those who admit mistakes and ask for forgiveness, but blatant liars pay a price sooner or later. Continue to live the ObamaCare lie and the Democrat party will be crucified, not just in the up coming election but for years to come as more and more people get hurt by ObamaCare!

[QUOTE]”There is no evidence” that the insurance companies are to blame, they followed the law as written. [/QUOTE]Wrong again Punter. The health care law allowed insurance companies to grandfather plans, and to decide which plans they grandfathered. This is a fact. These plans didn't automatically become financially unsustainable, because many of them are still being offered. The insurance companies made choices to drop plans, like they did every single year before the ACA became law, especially in the individual insurance market. The ACA did force non-grandfathered plans that didn't meet the ACA minimum requirements to be cancelled. For grandfathered plans, it was the insurance company's decision.

This guy actually wrote Obama, and they put his letter on the whitehouse website. You've got to think that every Republican who has benefitted from the new law, knows what a lie all the right wing emotional attacks are.

[URL]http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/29/1288174/--Staunch-Republican-ObamaCare-Works[/URL]

[QUOTE]
Good afternoon,

I am a staunch Republican, a self-proclaimed Fox News addict, and I didn't vote for the President. And I'm here to tell you that Obamacare works. I'm living proof.

I'm a chemotherapy patient, and was previously paying $428 a month for my health coverage. I was not thrilled when it was cancelled.

Then I submitted an application at HealthCare.gov. I looked at my options. And I signed up for a plan for $62 a month.

It's the best health care I have ever had.

So right now, here's what I want to tell anyone who still needs health insurance, or knows someone who does:

Sign up. Follow the instructions on the website. Apply, and look at your options. You still have time, and take it from me: This is something you want to do.

I wrote a letter to President Obama this past February to tell him about my experience with the Health Insurance Marketplace. I hoped he'd read it, and he did.

I may not be a supporter of the President. But now, I get mad when I see Obamacare dragged through the mud on television.

And even though I regularly tune in to conservative pundits, I'd like to tell them they're getting it wrong. Obamacare works.

So one more time: If you still need health insurance, you have just three days to get it. Do what I did. Go to HealthCare.gov, submit an application, and pick a plan that works for you.

It just might change your life.

Mark D. Bearden, Ph.D.
Monroe, North Carolina
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Esten;438781]Wrong again Punter. The health care law allowed insurance companies to grandfather plans, and to decide which plans they grandfathered. This is a fact. These plans didn't automatically become financially unsustainable, because many of them are still being offered. The insurance companies made choices to drop plans, like they did every single year before the ACA became law, especially in the individual insurance market. The ACA did force non-grandfathered plans that didn't meet the ACA minimum requirements to be cancelled. For grandfathered plans, it was the insurance company's decision.[/QUOTE]Funny thing my plan was dropped because it "did not meet the affordable health care act requirements." (I guess they should have checked with you) Of course that was before Obama started using his pen and his phone to circumvent the constitution. I'm unaware of any grandfather clause in the [U]original[/U] written law. Even if it was in the original law, which I don't think it was, why would they want to grandfather my policy when they can demand I buy something I don't want or need and cost more. So much for reining in the insurance companies.

[QUOTE=Esten;438781]Wrong again Punter. The health care law allowed insurance companies to grandfather plans, and to decide which plans they grandfathered. This is a fact. These plans didn't automatically become financially unsustainable, because many of them are still being offered. The insurance companies made choices to drop plans, like they did every single year before the ACA became law, especially in the individual insurance market. The ACA did force non-grandfathered plans that didn't meet the ACA minimum requirements to be cancelled. For grandfathered plans, it was the insurance company's decision.[/QUOTE]You are misinformed Esten, ObamaCare as written and passed by the Democrats and signed by Obama provides specific deadline dates without "grandfather" clauses. If you can find one in the bill please place it here for we poor deluded, conspiracy driven conservatives to see in black and white. I'm not talking about all the waivers Obama handed out to his friends. Good luck with that.

What happened was Obama waved his magic wand back in 2013 after the uproar over individual policy cancelations due to non-conformance with Obamacare mandates and again this year regarding the coming cancelations of company policies in September, October and November for non-conforming plans. If you would take the time to check the several states insurance commissioners declined to follow Obama's magic wand proposal but followed the law as written. I suspect the same thing will occur again this year.

Obama's magic wand trick was a publicity stunt in an attempt to shift the blame from Obama, the Democrats and ObamaCare to the states insurance commissioners. "See we told them it was ok to issue the policies but those mean old insurance commissioners are to blame if your policy is canceled not us". The policies were canceled and not reissued or "grandfathered" as there is no provision in the written law as passed to facilitate this. The commissioners followed the law as enacted.

[QUOTE=Esten;438781]Wrong again Punter. The health care law allowed insurance companies to grandfather plans, and to decide which plans they grandfathered. This is a fact.[/QUOTE]This "headline" from Esten's comment is what the LIV will read.

It's irrelevant to Esten that his headline is inaccurate.

The only thing important to Esten is that he got his headline published, because he knows that there are some LIVs browsing even this lonely thread, and that those LIV's will glance at his headline and then move on to other threads about pussy while subconsciously thinking "[I]See, just like I heard before, it's the insurance companies fault and those rascally conservatives are lying again[/I]."

Mission accomplished.

Jax.