American Politics during the Obama Presidency

It is good to see the deficit below 500B, but we still have much work to do. Check out this blast from the past from CNN. If the Bush years had not squandered our surplus and left the country in a deep recession, we could have been looking at a debt-free nation next year...

Clinton: Pay debt by 2015
June 28,1999
[URL]http://money.cnn.com/1999/06/28/economy/clinton/[/URL]

[QUOTE]
NEW YORK (CNNfn) - President Clinton on Monday proposed paying off the national debt by 2015 after issuing a new budget outlook that adds $1 trillion more to the overall budget surplus over the next 15 years.

The president, who plans to unveil a major Medicare reform initiative on Tuesday, said he wants to use the surplus to add decades of solvency to the Social Security and Medicare systems, which are otherwise expected to go broke as the "Baby Boom" generation retires.

"If we maintain our fiscal discipline, using the surplus to pay down the debt and using the savings to strengthen Social Security, America will entirely pay off the national debt by 2015," Clinton told reporters on the White House lawn.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Esten;439342]Check out this blast from the past from CNN. If the Bush years had not squandered our surplus and left the country in a deep recession, we could have been looking at a debt-free nation next year...[/QUOTE]Pull your head out of the sand. When it comes to deficit spending, Obama is Bush on speed.

You forget the deep recession Obama inherited. Federal revenues were slashed and deficit spending was needed. Obama does now share part of the blame, but the situation was thrust upon him from the Bush years. You're fooling yourself if you think it would have been much different under any other president.

[QUOTE=RevBS;439337][URL]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/05/08/the-five-stages-of-gop-scandal-mongering-a-readers-guide/?hpid=z2[/URL]

Just in case you don't have a mirror or your mirror is cracked, a good look at yourself. I know, I know. It's hard to admit that you are an addict or ideologue of some kind. There are times when Constitution thumping is very similar to Bible thumping. Too much emotional righteousness and too little common sense. And so, nothing gets done.

Getting to the gates of heaven but unable to get in, it must be frustrating. It's time for soul cleansing of some kind. And a dose of humility will perhaps win over Saint Peter at the gate. That is, if you didn't walk over or bump some people off the path on your way there.[/QUOTE]Reverend, There is some irony. Lois Lerner, encouraged by prominent Democrat politicians including President Obama, tried to delay or prevent the exercise of first amendment rights by organizations that she didn't agree with. Now the House of Representatives is trying to abridge her fifth amendment rights. If the House wants her to testify then they should grant her immunity. Otherwise there's no cause to cite her for contempt.

It's interesting that six Democrats voted to hold her in contempt. I don't know what to make of that, unless they think it's something that would help them get re-elected.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;439271]The "Darwinian" free market system creates jobs and provides the greatest prosperity for all. [/QUOTE]Free markets don't get all the credit (or blame), it's the combination of a free market and the regulatory framework in which it works. Look at the postWWII economic expansion. The economic growth over this period was in part due to Keynesian economic policies and government spending. This in turn was enabled by progressive tax rates far higher (up to 86%) than they are today. The middle class expanded and prospered. Since Reagan started the era of tax cuts, the wealthy have prospered disproportionately, at the expense of the middle class. Here is an excellent graphic showing how prosperity was shared before and after 1979.

[URL]http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2011/07/golden-age-of-capitalism-in-pictures.html[/URL]

Recent corporate shifts to 90 day payment terms now permit the largest companies to further prosper at the expense of smaller companies. These payment term changes free up Billions of dollars for companies like P&G. Of course, this will help P&G build new factories overseas, and sustain it's 57-year record of annual dividend increases to shareholders (AKA Wall Street parasites), at the expense of its suppliers. With a corresponding ripple-down effect on those suppliers, their employees and their hiring decisions. It's not enough to point out that politicians and government have allowed such consolidation of wealth and power. We must elect representatives who will pass legislation that will reverse these damaging trends, and ensure prosperity is shared more equitably.

P&G, Big Companies Pinch Suppliers on Payments
[URL]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324010704578418361635041842[/URL]

[QUOTE=Esten;439383]Free markets don't get all the credit (or blame), it's the combination of a free market and the regulatory framework in which it works. Look at the postWWII economic expansion. The economic growth over this period was in part due to Keynesian economic policies and government spending. This in turn was enabled by progressive tax rates far higher (up to 86%) than they are today. The middle class expanded and prospered. Since Reagan started the era of tax cuts, the wealthy have prospered disproportionately, at the expense of the middle class. Here is an excellent graphic showing how prosperity was shared before and after 1979.

[URL]http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2011/07/golden-age-of-capitalism-in-pictures.html[/URL]

Recent corporate shifts to 90 day payment terms now permit the largest companies to further prosper at the expense of smaller companies. These payment term changes free up Billions of dollars for companies like P&G. Of course, this will help P&G build new factories overseas, and sustain it's 57-year record of annual dividend increases to shareholders (AKA Wall Street parasites), at the expense of its suppliers. With a corresponding ripple-down effect on those suppliers, their employees and their hiring decisions. It's not enough to point out that politicians and government have allowed such consolidation of wealth and power. We must elect representatives who will pass legislation that will reverse these damaging trends, and ensure prosperity is shared more equitably.

P&G, Big Companies Pinch Suppliers on Payments
[URL]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324010704578418361635041842[/URL][/QUOTE]

"That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen by Frederic Bastiat, 1850".

Suggested reading for Esten, et al.

Don B.

[QUOTE=Esten;439383]Free markets don't get all the credit (or blame), it's the combination of a free market and the regulatory framework in which it works. Look at the postWWII economic expansion. The economic growth over this period was in part due to Keynesian economic policies and government spending. This in turn was enabled by progressive tax rates far higher (up to 86%) than they are today. The middle class expanded and prospered. Since Reagan started the era of tax cuts, the wealthy have prospered disproportionately, at the expense of the middle class. Here is an excellent graphic showing how prosperity was shared before and after 1979.

[URL]http://taxjustice.blogspot.com/2011/07/golden-age-of-capitalism-in-pictures.html[/URL]

Recent corporate shifts to 90 day payment terms now permit the largest companies to further prosper at the expense of smaller companies. These payment term changes free up Billions of dollars for companies like P&G. Of course, this will help P&G build new factories overseas, and sustain it's 57-year record of annual dividend increases to shareholders (AKA Wall Street parasites), at the expense of its suppliers. With a corresponding ripple-down effect on those suppliers, their employees and their hiring decisions. It's not enough to point out that politicians and government have allowed such consolidation of wealth and power. We must elect representatives who will pass legislation that will reverse these damaging trends, and ensure prosperity is shared more equitably.

P&G, Big Companies Pinch Suppliers on Payments
[URL]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324010704578418361635041842[/URL][/QUOTE]
We've had this argument already, several times. You blame all the country's ills on our tax system not being progressive enough, even though it's one of the most progressive in the world. I attribute the changes to globalism, technology, demographics and family structure. And believe the best solution, to provide greater prosperity and opportunity for all lies in better education and improved efficiency in government, the tax system, and regulation. Then I point to examples of countries with these efficiencies, which are among the most prosperous in the world, and you ignore them.

So what do you want to do about P&G? Should government mandate that all companies pay their bills in 30 days? About the "Wall Street parasites" that own P&G and collect "free money" in the form of dividends, the top 4 holders of record are pension and mutual funds managed or represented by Black Rock, Vanguard, State Street, and Fidelity. The fifth is Berkshire Hathaway whose largest shareholder is Warren Buffet. I see your point about Buffet's company being a Wall Street parasite, as Berkshire as a C corporation pays 0% to 10.5% federal tax (depending on its % shareholding) on its dividend income, versus up to a 23.8% rate for individuals.

[QUOTE=Esten;439383]Free markets don't get all the credit (or blame), it's the combination of a free market and the regulatory framework in which it works. Look at the postWWII economic expansion. The economic growth over this period was in part due to Keynesian economic policies and government spending. This in turn was enabled by progressive tax rates far higher (up to 86%) than they are today. The middle class expanded and prospered. Since Reagan started the era of tax cuts, the wealthy have prospered disproportionately, at the expense of the middle class. Here is an excellent graphic showing how prosperity was shared before and after 1979.

RL][/QUOTE]You are omitting some key factors here as to why the US middle class was more prosperous in the pre-Reagan days; to begin with, legitimate competition from Korea and Japan in the automotive, industrial equipment, computing and electronic sectors was virtually nonexistent and competition from Germany was only in its infancy. Lack of solid competition allowed US companies to thrive and thus maintain large manufacturing employment bases. This was also before China made the shift from Maoist misery to the Deng Xioping manufacturing-for-export model and before NAFTA made manufacturing south of the border a no brainer. The world economy has simply undergone an enormous structural shift since 1979 that has not boded well for the lower middle / working class in the United States who have not made the adjustment to the new economy. The US tax code is certainly ridiculous and needs reform but outlandish top marginal income tax rates are probably not the answer to the problem.

[I][b]The US tax system is much more progressive than other developed countries. This was written before the Obama tax increases on the top 1% took effect:[/I][/b].

[URL]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/09/19/other-countries-dont-have-a-47/[/URL]

Also, please note the comments about how taxes on "free money" (capital gains, savings, dividends) reduce growth. I haven't looked into this research, because the conclusions are so obvious to me, but maybe you should.

Esten seems to need a short history lesson. The rise of American industrial might and the middle class took place after WWII. The American industrial complex thrived during the war producing war material for the European and Pacific theaters of operations through innovative production to meet those needs. After the war they began to apply those same methods to consumer goods, for which there was growing demand after the restrictions on their production during the war, creating jobs and wealth for the middle class.

While the American industrial base remained totally intact during the war due to the buffer of 2 oceans, Europe and the far east's industrial base was in shambles after the war and had to be rebuilt nearly from the ground up. The retooling of their industrial base was with late 1940 and 1950 forward equipment and the technological advances in production from American industry, while our industrial base was still rooted in early 20th century technology. This certainly took it's toll in competition going forward as our base continued to age.

By the way Esten, almost no one paid those absurdly high taxes as numerous methods were available to avoid them. Compared to John Kennedy's tax cutting, Ronald Reagan was a piker.

[URL]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/e[/URL]

Tell me it's not true.

Let's try again, link did not work previously. Added a few more in the same vein.

[URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2014/04/is-america-an-oligarchy.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/[/URL]

Let's get that pipeline built, so we can have more of this.

Imagine how bad this would be in the middle of some state in the Mid West with no people around.

[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27426220[/URL]

This pissed me off because I could not go to my favorite Strip Club!

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;439451]Let's get that pipeline built, so we can more of this.

Imagine how bad this would be in the middle of some state with no people around.

[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27426220[/URL]

This pissed me because I could not go to my favorite Strip Club![/QUOTE]Know that area well. Worked & live there before moving on. Never did go to that strip club, had to play it safe. But once while munching on a hamburger across the street, the bus came to a stop, and happy group of Chinese seniors from Chinatown came spilling out, jostling each other and aiming for the club. Aaah, the early bird specials!

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69;439451]Let's get that pipeline built, so we can have more of this.

Imagine how bad this would be in the middle of some state in the Mid West with no people around.

[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27426220[/URL]

This pissed me off because I could not go to my favorite Strip Club![/QUOTE]So what's the alternative? Tankers like the Exxon Valdez? Trains carrying oil, like the one that killed 47 people in Quebec? Or maybe just give up all forms of transportation involving oil products? I'll take you seriously if you do that. I expect to see no more reports from you on hookers in places like El Salvador. Instead you may only bang women in California that you can travel to on your bicycle.

Pipelines are a relatively safe, efficient way to transport oil. You and I share a concern about USA involvement in wars in the Middle East. One of the best ways to prevent that going forward is to make North America self sufficient in oil. The alternative to the Keystone pipeline for the Canadians is to ship the oil to their west coast and sell to the Chinese. That's not good for the United States of America.