Mar del Plata

I plan on making an exploratory trip down to Mar del Plata when I have some time. I met with an American that also is interested in the real estate market (she owns several apartments in Buenos Aires) and she said prices down there are much much cheaper than Buenos Aires. If that is true and the quality of properties is nice there, I will consider buying an apartment, furnishing it with luxury furniture and renting it out just as I am doing in Buenos Aires.

I'm not sure when I can make it down there with my busy schedule but I hope to make it down there once it gets warmer. I'll report what I find out.

Saint

Hey Saint--

Just read your below entry.

You know I'm a big fan of MDP.

But to be fair, its a little worn at the elbows for an investment vehicle.

I love to go down there, because, well, its an adventure for me to travel through the pampas and get even further south on the globe. I plan on checking out Miramar in December.

But my last trip down there to MDP was a tad disappointing. The city looked a little less welcoming than I had previously experienced.

I still would recommend a visit for all those who have yet to go --

but for an investment apartment -- maybe Punta Del Este is a better play.

Just my opinion.

Best,

I didn't see this message here from you posted a while back. I already did some DD and figured out as an investment it's not too great of an idea. They do have some damn affordable apartments but the problem is that MDP is not a year-round destination. It only has a maximum of 2-3 months high season. The rest of the year is dead. That is not a good play for an investment.

So far most people that have been there have told me that it's nothing to write home about so I probably won't even go down there. You are right about Punta del Este. I have some apartment listings on my site for sale now. I wish I had the money to buy an apartment there. One client offered to pay $5,000 US to rent for only ONE MONTH. I think besides Buenos Aires... PDE is the hot spot to invest in. Uruguay also has a stable history for foreign ownership.

Good luck.

Ive visited MDP about 20 times over the past 3 years (all weekend trips). IMO the chica scene is better than BA. Not too many major bordellos (although there is a Madahos, which I don't like). However there have got to be 100s of apartments, some with over 10 girls. Well run places that serve drinks, etc. Nearly all the girls are young hot locals and avg price is about 40 pesos for 1/2 hour. Just walk around MDP or go to the beach and you will see the incredible amount of stunningly gorgeous sexy girls running around everywhere. Its like this in most provincial cities like Cordoba & Rosario as well. In MDP I go out to dinner and when I get back there are about 10 fliers on my windshield peddling chicas in varios apts (I am a platinum customer in many). Ive also had luck a few times with the nonpros there. The beach is great during summer and MDP is full of great restaraunts, bars, clubs, etc. Everything is about 1/2 price as BA. I went to Punta del Este once, no desire to go back. I know I´m the exception as Punta is a great name and the prestigious place to say you went, but I thought it sucked. I´ll take MDP any day and will. BTW there is also a casino in MDP.

I heard from a friend of mine who lives in BA that MDP kick's ass! What's the scene like during the non-summer months? Do the apartment houses close down, or are they still full of hot young chicas?

Judd

Guys.

Are there any short time love hotels near Madahos? I am thinking about spending New Years down there but I usually stay at a youth hostel to meet other young travelers and you can't really bring chicas back there. Thanks.


[blue]Hi Marak5,

Your question would evoke a laugh from any experienced sport fucker in Argentina.

There are short time hotels near EVERY boliche in the country.

No need to ask on a case-by-case basis.

And in anticipation of your next question: You don't need to know in advance where they are. Every chica working in every boliche knows where the nearest "transitorio" is. Trust me.

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

Marak5,

In MDP, why stay in a hostel? I understand that you may meet more people there, but youll have no problem meeting people in boliches, the beach, street, etc in MDP. A 4 or 5 star hotel (Argentine rating system) during high season will run you the equivalent of US$60 per night in MDP. And they are chica friendly. I suggest avoiding Madahos in MDP just as I do in BA. The talent in MDP is in the apartments, and they all have there own rooms - no need for a transitorio.

[QUOTE=Marak5]Guys.

Are there any short time love hotels near Madahos? I am thinking about spending New Years down there but I usually stay at a youth hostel to meet other young travelers and you can't really bring chicas back there. Thanks.[/QUOTE]If you're going to use a lot of transitorios, it will probably be cheaper in the long run just to get a moderate hotel room.

[QUOTE=Moore]Marak5,

In MDP, why stay in a hostel? I understand that you may meet more people there, but youll have no problem meeting people in boliches, the beach, street, etc in MDP. A 4 or 5 star hotel (Argentine rating system) during high season will run you the equivalent of US$60 per night in MDP. And they are chica friendly. I suggest avoiding Madahos in MDP just as I do in BA. The talent in MDP is in the apartments, and they all have there own rooms - no need for a transitorio.[/QUOTE]Hi,

The only reason I would really stay in a hostel is just so I do not have to go out alone. I will be heading down there alone, and I am hoping that one of the chicas will just go out with me to the regular clubs. I want to see the regular clubs there and I'm inclined to travel to MDP in the first place because I'm reading that the chicas like to hang out afterwards or go to normal clubs. I am just a little concerned that maybe Madahos would be dead on New Years Eve since I'm sure even chicas on the program have friends they would like to hang out with on that night. Then if I am staying in a hotel alone I am kind of sol and have to head out for nye on my own. With a hostel I am pretty much guaranteed to meet people to hang out with for that night.

[QUOTE=Jaimito Cartero]If you're going to use a lot of transitorios, it will probably be cheaper in the long run just to get a moderate hotel room.[/QUOTE]I'd just be there over a weekend and average about 1 chica per day with maybe 1 apartment supplement over that time, so I'd only plan on using about 2.

Am having a problem getting a rate on line for this hotel over Dec. 26 to 30. Can anyone give me their email address please? All of the travel websites have no price or off season pricing. Many thanks!

[url]http://www.manantiales.com.ar/[/url]

Hope this helps, have fun.

EC.

[QUOTE=Cactus]Am having a problem getting a rate on line for this hotel over Dec. 26 to 30. Can anyone give me their email address please? All of the travel websites have no price or off season pricing. Many thanks![/QUOTE]

Many thanks El Centro!

I spent last weekend in MdP, here's a summary:

P4P

As written in previous posts, MdP is full of excellent private houses (privados). Here is a short list of privados.

H. Yrigoyen 2728
Brown 2655
Rawson 1457
Santiago del Estero 3127
Brown 1659
Rawson 3123

Most of these places are located in about a 10 x 5 block area next to the main plaza/casino area. Blocks are smaller in MdP so it's a fairly concentrated area. Just look for the fliers on the cars in that area and also look in the local newspaper La Capital.

Do not go to the "old" dilapidated downtown area near the port. There, there are neon-lit dumps set up like bars that are filled with rough, frightening old ladies. I only went once a couple of years ago but it left a scarring impression on me. I remember that I sat down in one place for about 5 minutes and one of the hags came over to introduce herself and leaned over to give me a kiss. I always try not not be rude or offensive with anyone but reflexes kicked it and I uncontrolably recoiled from the horrific beast encroaching my personal space. That zone is sort of like how I imagine a truckstop brothel would be.

Rawson 3123 warranted a 2nd visit. I went there Friday night about 1am and there were 9 chicas, all of them grade A Argentine quality aged 21-27 years. I would have been happy to nail all 9. The logistics are quite similar to those of Santa Fe 1707 in that they have a sitting room where they make the presentations and then have several rooms for your convenience. I had excellent sessions there. Although private, there is a stand up bar in the presentation area. Unlike BA, there are sometimes other mongers in the sitting room during the presentation. It seems like nobody has anything to hide in MdP. The service and attention are very professional, like being at a good restaurant except for what's being served.

Most of the privados are open 24/7. But during the day, the selection is 3-4 chicas compared with 8-10 at night. I usually phone first.

PRICES
I was very surprised that prices have gone up in MdP since my last visit close to a year ago. Rawson 3123 was p60 for a half hour. Most other privados are still relatively cheap at p40 (used to be p30). A meal with wine at a good parrilla there cost me about p45, which is about 30% more than in Capital. Even taxis seemed more expensive than in BA. Go figure, it is low season and the economy of MdP makes the economy of BA look like Silicon Valley in the late 90s.

SECURITY
I sense that security is more of an issue in MdP than in BA. One possible cause is that MdP supposedly has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. I get more warnings there from locals to be careful on the street, but I've never had a problem. My 4-star hotel puts a 2-by-4 between the double door handles after about 11pm and they also have a security guard. I get the impression that the local provincial police are even shadier than the CF police. One time I was shooting pool with a guy who had just gotten out of prison for armed robbery. We were leaving the bar at the same time and a police truck (a Hilux that they all use down there) was passing by. The police stopped and they were very chummy with my new ex-convict buddy, kissing each other like Argentine men often do. That seemed kind of odd. Partners in crime I guess.

REGULAR HANGOUTS
There are good bars scattered throughout the city, but three main drags exist – Guemes, Alem, and Constitucion. The latter contains more club / dance places. I went to Sobremonte on Constitucion on Friday. It's pretty cool place that has several separate areas – club/dance, bar, rock, techno, salsa, etc. The crowd was good with a relatively broad age range. Chocolate is closeby and is not bad on Saturdays; Friday is teenager night there. Although my away record is not very good, I've pulled a couple local chicas out of the bars during prior visits. One splendid afternoon, I met a chica (basically she fell into my lap) on the beach and I nailed her about 2 hours and 1 pizza later. I even went a little bit "Gacy" on her! I had to get another hotel room as I was leaving that day and had already checked out. There was something peculiar about this girl; due to her speech, name, and behavior I suspect that she may have been an unorthodox Gypsy. I read that MdP has one of the largest Gypsy populations in the country.

DAYTIME (all 3 hours of it)
According to many Argentines and guidebooks, there are several interesting historical sites, points of interest, theaters, walking districts, shopping centers, museums, civic centers, and cultural activities in MdP. I'm generally not into that sort of thing. I do like the outdoors though. If you're in MdP in Jan-Feb, everything revolves around the beach. I've never seen so many stunningly sexy chicas running around in butt-floss anywhere on the planet as I see on the beach in MdP. Nowhere even comes close, but I bet that the lake area in Cordoba is very good during summer. Prague, if it had a beach, might qualify as a very distant third. Other natural spectacles are the wide-open coastal stretch between MdP and Miramar (about 40 roadway clicks to the south), the pine forests nearby and the beerhauses within them, and the lakes/hills to the north.

CONCLUSION
In 3 days and 3 nights, I could not find Amstel Light anywhere in Mar Del Plata. Avoid this place.

BAD APPLE

I should mention that I had a scary experience in the good monger zone. Just having arrived to MdP on Friday afternoon, I went out to get some tail. I had a long inventory of privados from prior visits, some of which I included in my aforementioned list. Most of these places have been around for years, but obviously some places close or change. This particular privado was on approx Rawson 2400. I walked in about 5pm (didn't call before going) and immediately didn't like the place. It was way too dark and the decor seemed satanic. I was taken to the presentation room and couldn't see anything. The madam asked me "what do you want, girls?" That was a very ominous sign - what the hell else would I be looking for? A couple girls (I guess, I couldn't see jack) came in and I said that I needed more light. Then the apparent ringleader appeared, whom I assume was also on the program. It was a mean and rather large transvestite. I told it that I couldn't see anything and it was very annoyed. It said fine, we'll make the presentations in the bathroom where there is light. At this point I was ready to make a run for it. After huffing and puffing, it asked me what the problem was. I mentioned the light again and also said, as tactfully as possible, that I like places with girls, ALL of them girls. It became irate and called me an "estupido barbaro" (more or less a fuxcking idiot) I told it that it was right, I am a fuxcking idiot, and I luckily made it out the door, which it slammed hard upon my escape. I'm sure I would have avoided this by calling first. Clearly, this place changed its target market. I've never had something like this happen in MdP. The few times I walked into a privado and didn't select a chica, the madam apologized and told me to come back later when there would be more chicas. That said, don't be alarmed if you enter one of the privados and the "madam" is a guy (not a transvestite). I've been to many privados in MdP in which a guy was in charge. It's normal there.

[QUOTE=Papa Benito]Thank you. I want to go there in November and December. Do you have any info on Pinamar or Villa Gesell? Any Leffe in MDP?[/QUOTE]I've visited both places but never stayed the night. They, along with Carilo, are considered to be much more prestigious by the Argentines. They are beautiful with pine forests and expensive houses all around. MdP is generally a middle class city and a middle class destination. The reason I don't stay there is because they are very small towns with much less action than MdP. I believe MdP has a population around 500,000; its like a small Buenos Aires on the coast and has a wide variety of restaurants, bars, boliches, P4P, zones, beaches, etc. I never mongered in Villa Gesell, Pinamar, or Carilo.

I doubt you'll find Leffe in MdP. Have you found it Capital?

I went to Mar del plata last weekend and wanted to add 20 de Septiembre 1317 and Espana 1214 to the list I think both places are called La gestoria. 50 pesos for the half hour 70 for the hour. Nice slection of girls.

I stayed at the Torres Manantanales. Nice place. I hear it is chica friendly; but wound up going to privados or in one case going to an independents house for 100 pesos for the hour (Brazillian chick with big tits)

Any friends staying or living in Mar del Plata?

Or anyone travelling there this week or recently?

Any updated reports on places to stay or check out?

Thanks,

Boxer

Boxer,

Check out SteveC 's reports and / or PM him. Based on the reports, he is the only poster I know of who lives in MDP.

My report below is only about 6 weeks old and is fairly extensive. If you're going before Christmas, hotel reservations shouldnt be a problem, but reserve ahead regardless. I recommend hotel Dos Reyes - probably the only "nicer" (translation - more expensive) hotel is the Sheraton. The Sheraton is nearly on the beach, where as DR is downtown which is maybe a 5 minute ride from the beach. I prefer to stay downtown and be within walking distance of much of the nightlife. DR is also very close the the main monger zone. Sheraton is right next door to Madahos, but as Ive stated, that is not a benefit IMO.

I forgot to mention, avoid Hotel Argentino. Its a "five-star" hotel I stayed at once because it was January and nothing else was available. The place is a filthy dark dump. The rooms and hallways are like the upstairs fuckroom area of Envidia.

I was in MDP 2 weeks ago. There are some privados (the list of Moore 27.10.05 is ok) and you can find more address in the walking area (there are man that give you a small "advertising")

I was not lucky, all the privados had a 3 watt light and a very low quality of chicas (I think, I didn't see very well)

I tried some club: in one in Entrerios (just 30 m from the walking street)

I went with a gilr (in the small room inside) for 70p 1/2 h - I was a little drunk.

But I remeber she was not more of 5. Very good attitude.

I want in some other club - everywhere the drinks cheap (8 p for a Rum Cola and about 15 p for the lady) but the quality. From 3 to 5

Madahos (in the Sheraton area) is the only one were I found some chicas over 7 but one of them (I quoted her 8,5 - 19y - from buenos Aires) asked me 300p without possibility of negotiation. I passed.

I agree with Moore about the hotel Dos Reyes (you can find the website adress) but it's often full. There is a great difference of price whit the Sheraton and it's in a better place (near the Casino and walking area)

Sheraton is a little far but is in front a beautiful beach.

Mar del Plata has many cheap restaurant that offer "parrilla libre" (buffet - self service where they offer parrilla without limits) for about 9-10 pesos + drinks - Quality good enough for me.

From MDP is possible take the bus for villa Gessel, that has beautiful beach with dune. In November it's still low season. 2 h of bus.

After MDP I went to Puerto Madrin in bus! Thanks to the "paro" (stop) of Aerolinas Argentinas - 16 h in "semicama". If somebody take the bus I suggest to take the "cama" that's like a fisrt class in a plane.

Thanks for your report Sam. As they say, one mans trash is another mans treasure and viceversa. Madahos is about the only place in MdP that is on my blacklist, like Madahos or Blacks here in BA. Madahos MdP is (or was last time I went 1-2 years ago) loaded with rough Dominicanas / Brasileras with 4 kids and 35ish "girls".

I usually do 2 sessions a night in the privados while in MdP and am always impressed with the quality of the chicas. I always find girls there that look like they came straight off the University of BsAs campus or the local beach. Thats why I keep going back. As I wrote, light does seem to be problem in some privados though.

I'm sorry you had a bad streak of luck there.

This is posted in reference to Moore who was talking about hotels and places to stay in Mardel.

I was living in Mar del Plata for about 6 months last year. It's a very great place for more than just mongering. I have a private apartment there that I am going to start renting out to tourists from January. It's right on the corner of the pedestrian street in the center of downtown (San Martin) and the beach. The location can't be beat.

I am setting up a website to take reservations and market it, but it's taking time to complete. The apartment is amazing inside and even has a Jacuzzi bathtub and the view out the window rocks. 100% chica friendly. The best part (for some) is the use of a local cell phone and a 24 hour on-call personal bi-lingual concierge who can make any arrangements you need, help buy things, etc. He can help via the phone, or will even come help you in person.

Cable TV and wireless internet will not be ready until after the 1st of the year. Everything else is set up.

- 2 bedrooms (one is a living room with a fold out)

- separate climate control for each room.

- kitchen.

- dual washer / dryer.

- 2 showers, in the same bathroom (one of them in the jacuzzi bathtub)

- two toilets (both have fan system) one in a separate area from shower.

- natural light into bathrooms.

- maid service.

- drop a stone from the window and hit the beach.

- central location.

- will have Cable TV and internet soon.

- everything brand new.

I want to get some good personal recommendations for this place. I also want to get some constructive criticism as to what else may be needed. So I am willing to rent this place to people from this board until the end of the year for $30USD per night just to cover the costs. This is going to rent for over $100USD per night after the New Year.

Anyone who is interested, please contact me at [email]reservations@argentinaplay. Com[/email]

Jacob Verte

That sounds cool, I may take you up on your pre-Jan offer. I am considering going to MDP in about 5 days and maybe spending Christmas there. Will let you know on your address below.

Ive almost always stayed at Dos Reyes hotel there and I'm not so familiar with the summer apartment rental market. But I think most are rented for month or half month periods in the summer. US100/night might work for shortterm stays by Americans/Europeans (if you can find them) but 9,000 pesos for a month for a local (which I think is almost the entire market) sounds extremely high. I believe that is more than most Argentines make in a year! I can see in Clarin that the average 2 bedroom MDP vacation apartment rents for p1,600 for the month of January2006, the peak and most expensive month of course. That sounds about right - the average Argentine going to MDP probably lives in an apartment that rents or would rent for maybe 1000 pesos. So p9,000 for your apartment would be over 5 times average price which is quite a premium.

Heres another reason to go to MDP between now and 31-Jan: I just called one of my favorite chicas at 1707 (thats 3 incall attemps now!). Guess where she is?

MDP in January has all the regular local great whoares plus all the ones that come down on vacation from BA! BA gets very slow for about a month starting right about now.

Yes, I am going only for the American / European / Australian market. Basically competing against the Sheriton hotel. Amenities and service and location beats the Sheriton on all counts. I am going to have a 1 week minimum stay. I am also going to have a bike available for free use.

Who's your 1707 favorita?

I know a few of them. Celeste, Barbara, "Lolita", Nati.

They do a good job most of the time.

DWC

While I was staying a few days in Mar del Plata about 3 weeks ago an Argentinian friend took me to a great house. For lack of a better translation its called " the blue house" and it litrally is that, a blue house, its basically a residential house filled at any given time with about 20 girls (all from paraguay but very hott) just waiting in the living room for guys.

Once you come into the front door, all the girls who are there @ that time will come up 2 you at once and introduce themselfs. After this you make your pick and take the girl to the room, I picked a 19 why / o skinny girl with great skin and a butt you can bounce a quarter off (don't ask me for the name, I forgot)

She will take you to the room where you will pay the standard fee of 60 pesos per half hour, and you get started. I was provided a great GFE session and left after an exausting half hour, no rushing but I don't know how the other girls are!

I highly reccomend this one, and for this amound of $$, take 2 girls for half an hour. I stupidly forgot (crappppp)

P. S. Any taxi driver knows where it is, just say casa de putas and blue house but then in spanish afcourse:-)

Ok. So the apartment is finally ready and set up. I'm naming it "Casa Primavera". For the most part it has been designed for those who read this board (check out some of the features of the master bed) although it is suitable for families too. It is very luxurious and beats the Sheraton in every way. The offer for those who want a preliminary stay is open through Mid January.

Here is a run down of what it has:

- Two bedrooms (2nd bedroom is a living room with sofa bed) with climate control in each.

- Kitchen with Dining table.

- Jacuzzi bathtub with shower inside, and 2nd shower outside.

- Two toilets in separate rooms with outside sink (no waiting)

- Cable TV.

- Wifi Internet.

- Washer / Dryer.

- Free Cell Phone usage.

- Personal bilingual Concierge for ANYTHING you need.

- Best location in the city.

- High security.

- Utmost privacy.

- Unbeatable views.

- Maid Service.

Check out the website for a virtual video tour of the Casa, and photos, and description of everything you would want to know about Mar del Plata. If I have left out anything, you can contact me directly at [email]jacob@argentinaplay. Com[/email] or private message. The website address is the same:

[url]www.argentinaplay.com[/url]

Fruehling,

I just watched your virtual tour and I think you did a great job. Everything in the apartment looks brand new.

Your target market is "Americans / Europeans / Australians" and as an American I'm going to assume that I represent the largest sector of your target market. I can tell you that: 1) the rate of US$200/night; 2) the minimum stay of 1 week; and 3) the "sleeps up to 5" claim are way out of line. I love MDP and have gone there probably 20 times over the past 4 years, always for 2-3 days. Would I spend US$1400 just for basic accommodation for a week's vacation in MDP? Not a chance in hell. I would never be there for a week anyway.

An American can fly (coach class) from the USA to BsAs and spend a week in this fantastic city for less than that sum. BsAs is obviously where most foreign visitors spend all their time. MDP, as a side-trip from BA, is possibly a very distant 4th place behind Iguazu, the Glaciers, and Bariloche. MDP, like most of the other side-trip destinations, is a place where Americans might spend a couple of days but not a week+. And although I disagree with their choice, most Americans looking for a more "prestigious" beach destination will go to Punta del Este, Pinamar, Carilo, Villa Gessell, etc. MDP is widely known in Argentina as a working class place and even looked down upon by many argentinos that IMO have no basis to be looking down on anyone. Most people in Recoleta would rather die than tell their friends that they spent their January holiday with the commonfolk in lowly Mar Del Plata. Its much cooler to say you went to Punta del Este, even though you're broke and that was January 5 years ago.

I just returned from MDP on Friday and stayed at the Hotel Dos Reyes as usual. Excluding a few exceptional hotels in Capital such as the Hilton and the Alvear, Hotel Dos Reyes is probably the nicest hotel I've seen in Argentina. As you probably know, its located about 2 blocks from your apartment in the center, and I paid 150 Pesos = US$50/night for my 3-day stay there (25% of your rate). The only major benefit I see of having an apartment there is having a separate living room where you can hang out, watch TV, read, etc. Basically some more space. From what I see, the living room of your apartment is tiny. As for the small kitchen, it looks very nice but most nice hotel rooms have the same mini-refrigerator as your apartment, which meets most, if not all, of our kitchen needs. The entire apartment looks very small – IMO it is effectively a decent single hotel room with a tiny living room on the side. You write "we can sleep up to 5 people" on your main page, which may be true for Argentines. Americans, however, only put 1 or 2 people in a single hotel room, but never 5.

Also written on the top of your page is "The price of EVERYTHING is about 30% of the prices in North America or Europe". As an American I'm thinking – then why is your hotel/apartment about 100% more expensive than what Id pay in lets say, Kansas City, for a similar room at an apartment/hotel that I know and trust, with no minimum stay? Applying the 30%, Id expect your apt/hotel to cost US$20 to US$30 per night...US$200, that must be an error?

I see that you aim to compete with the Sheraton. I've been to the Sheraton here in Capital and stayed at the Sheraton Iguazu once. That was the only time I remember paying US$ rates here since there are not so many hotel options at the Iguazu Falls. The hotel itself was no better than many 3stars I've stayed in. A brand name like Sheraton or Hilton may be able to get away with charging gringos US$ rates, but I doubt that an unknown private apartment/hotel in a relatively small, unknown city could. Besides, a familiar name like that is comforting to most Americans traveling abroad even if the price isn't so competitive.

My advice is to cut your rates by at least 50% and, most importantly, to eliminate your 1 week minimum stay. I hope that I am wrong about this because if so, I will purchase several of those dirt-cheap apartments in MDP, renovate them for almost nothing, and make an incredible profit renting them out to gringos on a short-term basis. At those rates, you probably recover the purchase price of the apartment in just one year!

In American business (and most other successful economies), you generally make money buy selling decent quality at a lower price but having much higher volume. You seem to be following the general Argentine model, which is to ask obscenely high prices and therefore have very low (sometimes zero) transaction volume.

Moore,

Thank you for the comments and criticisms. I would like to answer each of them. Please see below (I haven't worked out how the quoting mechanism works here so please bear with me):

"I just watched your virtual tour and I think you did a great job. Everything in the apartment looks brand new."

Thank you. It is. Top to bottom. Even the walls.

"Your target market is "Americans / Europeans / Australians" and as an American I'm going to assume that I represent the largest sector of your target market."

Well, I wouldn't say largest. In the 6 months I was living there I noticed a larger amount of the other two. I am guessing it will be about evenly distributed between the three.

"I love MDP and have gone there probably 20 times over the past 4 years, always for 2-3 days."

I hadn't considered that. I expected that most people will be travelling so far that they wouldn't stay for such a short time. But if they are doing more of a tour of the country, then they may spend less time there. I will revise that.

"Would I spend US$1400 just for basic accommodation for a week's vacation in MDP? Not a chance in hell."

Well, it certainly isn't basic accommodation. The amenities offered are much more than you can find in any hotel in the city, especially for someone who can't speak Spanish and comes during peak season. The price is less than the Sheraton and provides more.

"MDP, as a side-trip from BA, is possibly a very distant 4th place behind Iguazu, the Glaciers, and Bariloche. MDP, like most of the other side-trip destinations, is a place where Americans might spend a couple of days but not a week+."

The more I think about it, the more I agree with you. I am abolishing the minimum stay.

"I just returned from MDP on Friday and stayed at the Hotel Dos Reyes as usual. Excluding a few exceptional hotels in Capital such as the Hilton and the Alvear, Hotel Dos Reyes is probably the nicest hotel I've seen in Argentina. As you probably know, its located about 2 blocks from your apartment in the center, and I paid 150 Pesos = US$50/ night for my 3-day stay there (25% of your rate)"

Actually, that is 50% of my rate. Did you notice that the rate is different in the off season ($99 per night not in the Summer) As I am sure you know, the price during the official Summer months is much higher. Actually it is double the price for Dos Reyes. That is still half the price of what I am asking however. In my dealings with the Dos Reyes, they didn't have a lot of help for non-Spanish speakers. And certainly not an on call concierge to help you with anything you want any time.

"The only major benefit I see of having an apartment there is having a separate living room where you can hang out, watch TV, read, etc. "

The privacy issue is there too.

"Basically some more space. From what I see, the living room of your apartment is tiny."

It's not as small as it looks, it's just hard to get the right angles in the photos. It isn't huge, but it's certainly a nice place to relax away from the bedroom.

"As for the small kitchen, it looks very nice but most nice hotel rooms have the same mini-refrigerator as your apartment, which meets most, if not all, of our kitchen needs."

The kitchen wouldn't be of as much use to someone staying 3 days as it would if you were staying a week or more. The main reason I even kept it is for resale.

"The entire apartment looks very small – IMO it is effectively a decent single hotel room with a tiny living room on the side."

That's almost right. It's like a double hotel room with a living room and kitchen.

"You write "we can sleep up to 5 people" on your main page, which may be true for Argentines. Americans, however, only put 1 or 2 people in a single hotel room, but never 5."

This would be for families or stag groups. 5 is pushing it, I think I will change that to 4. But it is feasible. Both sofas open up for sleeping, and they are custom and very comfortable.

"Also written on the top of your page is "The price of EVERYTHING is about 30% of the prices in North America or Europe". As an American I'm thinking – then why is your hotel / apartment about 100% more expensive than what Id pay in lets say, Kansas City, for a similar room at an apartment / hotel that I know and trust, with no minimum stay? Applying the 30% , Id expect your apt / hotel to cost US$20 to US$30 per night. US$200, that must be an error?"

Good point. Perhaps writing "Everything else"? Just kidding, but you can't really compare Kansas City to Mar del Plata. The rest of the page is there to show people the difference and to justify the price.

"I see that you aim to compete with the Sheraton. I've been to the Sheraton here in Capital and stayed at the Sheraton Iguazu once. That was the only time I remember paying US$ rates here since there are not so many hotel options at the Iguazu Falls."

Let me recommend the "Hostel Inn Iguazu". You can get very nice rooms for very cheap. It's more of a resort than a hostel. They have some hostel rooms, but also many rooms with a large bed and private shower. The taxi ride from there to either side of the falls is really cheap. Plus it's next to an animal park with monkeys in the trees. Unless you mean inside the park where there is literally only 1 choice on each side.

"Besides, a familiar name like that is comforting to most Americans traveling abroad even if the price isn't so competitive."

That's true. Many, if not most, Americans are comforted by a big name like that.

"My advice is to cut your rates by at least 50%"

I am considering a slight price adjustment. However, I have already gotten a large response before I even put the page up.

"and, most importantly, to eliminate your 1 week minimum stay."

That's 100% for sure.

"I hope that I am wrong about this because if so, I will purchase several of those dirt-cheap apartments in MDP,"

I spent a few months trying to find one that was not overpriced and had a good location. All the real estate agencies there mostly do exclusive places, so it's a lot of leg work to find the right place.

"renovate them for almost nothing"

This bit was what I thought. But man, things just kept adding up. I suppose that the hardest part is that it's not be. As. I mean any good stuff you want either needs to be custom made or sent down from be. As. The labor is cheap, but siesta is a killer, and then construction hours during summer are crazy. It took 3 times as long as planned and more than double the cost.

"At those rates, you probably recover the purchase price of the apartment in just one year!"

Based on standard hospitality occupancy percentages, it's actually a few years, including the renovation costs (which were more than the apartment cost to begin with)

"In American business (and most other successful economies) you generally make money by selling decent quality at a lower price but having much higher volume."

That's one model, but other is about filling niches. My other business is selling absinthe online. When your market is the whole world, you don't need to be the cheapest, you just need to have something that people desire that isn't widely available elsewhere.

I really appreciate your taking the time to help me out here. I would really like for you to stay there and give it a test run and then tell me what you really think. Please let me know if that interests you. I have a few reservations, but let me know when / if you would like to give it a go and I would love to set you up.

Fruehling,

You are taking advice from a guy who says he would never stay in your property! He questions just about everything that someone here likes, recommends or tries that is different from his own opinion. He does not qualify himself with a bio or extensive experience except having travelled all over South America and not spending alot of money. I was told he was an accountant in his previous life - would you take marketing advice from your accountant? Shit I do not know if he was a CPA or just a beancounter in a big firm. Believe me, most of the WSG guys don't, can't or won't spend alot of money on accomodations - including me. That does not mean your market is wrong. But if you think you have a different market, go for it. If you rent to a high roller who wants something different, you win. Additionally, minimum stays are very popular during peak seasons and alot of people are forced to accept them if they want to vacation in a certain area. What have you got to lose. Remember, Moore is never going to stay in your place.

If Moore wants to chop up your site and give advice on how to do things right, why isn't he doing it himself? Why isn't he successfully running hostels and boarding houses or buying up cheap apartments and renting them out or running a string of retail stores?

I looked at your site and think you did a fine job. If you can maximize your rent, go ahead. What the F*** do you care what anyone else thinks, unless they can provide extensive experience and expertise on the subject. Travelling to a resort town 20 times does not make one an expert in renting apartments. Owning several rentals and making a profit gives them some leverage and validity to their advice. Do your own thing and good luck!

By the way, not too many cheap apartments anymore in desirable locations.

Thomaso276,

Your allegations about me: 1) saying I would never stay in Fruehling's property; 2) disagreeing with almost everything/everyone; 3) not knowing the market; and 4) not having experience are baseless and wrong. I'm not sure why you would write something so stupid but I have a very lame guess.

I haven't "qualified myself with a bio" - what the hell does that mean? Has anyone?

I'm truly flattered by your interest in and speculation about my studies, qualifications, travels, and work experience. I trust that its professional interest and nothing more. I have no idea who you are so I must admit its a little creepy.

Everyone has civilized disagreements from time to time. You, however, apparently attack and slander anyone who doesn't share your opinion, and that is a waste of space on this forum.

I disagree with your comment of "most of the WSG guys don't, can't or won't spend alot of money on accomodations". Guys coming down here have at least the money/desire to travel to and stay in BA, which is more expensive than MDP - they seem like good candidates to visit MDP just 400km south to me. Thats just my opinion and personal experience though.

I am very happy to take adivce and comments from anyone who is interested in the place. If anyone wants to give me advice, please go ahead. Private messages are fine. If you want to write a review and stay in the apartment, please contact me. Please visit the website:

[url]www.argentinaplay.com[/url]

We have a lot to offer that you won't find anywhere else. If you need help with finding chicas, or anything like that, the concierge will help you. It is very comfortable and safe and secure. It is in the best location in the city.

Dam expensive heh! If I go to MDP Sheraton will be my choice and it's points rewards.

I usually stay at the Sheraton or Costa Galana. They are both nice hotels, the spa at Costa Galana has jaccuzis with ocean views if you wanna treat a chica nice.

Ok, I see that you all want a better price. So, I have cut the prices in half. It is now $99 during peak season and $49 during the off season. The minimum stay has also been eliminated. Also, I will be cutting a break to the next 5 people from this board (who have more than 40 postings) who stay and will promise to write a review about it here.

[url]www.argentinaplay.com[/url]

Jacob

May take you up on that and I would write a review regardless. Looking to go mid Feb and will advise.

Near the bus station appartment with great service for A$30.

Just two girls in the afternoon both local Argentines late 20s.

Very enjoyable and good value for the money.

Having a planned weekend in MdP, I took up Jacob's offer of a reduced $99/ night rate on this newly renovated apartment overlooking the sea. A great pad for hobbyist, couple or family. Sleeps 4 easily. You must like people (at least in high season, Dec. – Feb. As it is located right in the middle of the action (walking streets, shopping, beach, cafes, wine shops, etc. No need for a car as a short taxi ride will get you to the Disco zone on Constitucion or to Madahos. As for the apartment itself, it's about 40 sq meters with a great view of the beach and sea from the fifth floor. Great sunrises as the bedroom faces directly east. The best part is the personal concierge service by Miquel who has been a long term resident of MdP. His good English skills take any worry out of going to this adventure location. He booked reservations at the best restaurants including contact names for superior service. (the best steak dinner for $7) All-in-all, everything was as-billed, very enjoyable. I only wish I had more time!