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[QUOTE=Jackson;441515]ISIS is a direct result of Obama's withdrawal of the American military after Bush's successful liberation of Iraq from a brutal dictator, but the left will never admit that.
Thanks,
Jax.[/QUOTE]If ever there was a line from Hannity, that was it. Spoken with total sincerity, too.
[QUOTE=RcCollins;441511]ISIS is a direct result of the Iraq invasion but the right will never admit that.[/QUOTE]If ever there was a line from Rachael Maddow, that was it. Spoken with total sincerity, too.
[QUOTE=Jackson;441527]If ever there was a line from Rachael Maddow, that was it. Spoken with total sincerity, too.[/QUOTE]Setting your verbal gymnastics aside, the statement below is a factual conclusion no independent voter can deny. BTW, I don't watch Maddow's show so I have no idea what her lines are.
[QUOTE=RcCollins;441511]ISIS is a direct result of the Iraq invasion but the right will never admit that.[/QUOTE]
History is history, no matter who is at fault. ISIS is a very real threat, now and in the future. They are well financed and well organized. Freedom loving people the world over must unite to stop ISIS before it is too late.
Tres3.
LOL. I am now reminded why I stopped reading these threads years ago. State propaganda 101.
Remember, we were dealing with a bad Iraqi president who refused the terms of a Status of Forces Agreement with the U.S., who fostered sectarian division, and who failed to ensure strong, effective leadership in the Iraqi military. If we had kept our troops in Iraq, nothing would have changed in Iraq, ISIS would have continued growing and planning in Syria, and there would not have been a regional and global coalition to address them.
Fast forward, and all of that has changed for the better. Not without a cost, but Iraq, the region and the world had to see the threat they faced to force this change.
It's a game of chess. We can debate whether it would have been better to keep troops in Iraq indefinitely. But since then, ISIS made some bad moves and Obama made some good moves. They will be contained, especially now that the campaign has moved into Syria.
As usual, the right is once again attempting to dumb-down a complex story into a simple message: It's Obama's Fault. It works well on their LIV base, not so much on those who apply some critical thinking. Critical thinking is a threat to conservatives; Bill Clinton said as much recently, when he said "The last thing they want you to do is think. "
[URL]http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/217679-clinton-republicans-trying-to-get-you-to-check-your-brain-at[/URL]
In my lifetime its hard to choose the best president from Harry Truman to Obama. Its easy to name the worst W. I voted for papa Bush the first term. Never voted for W so you can't blame me. Truman Eisenhower and nixon were probably the most influental I mean that in a positive way. Johnson and Carter passed the best legislation. Clinton raised taxes and that put our economy in such good shape we ran surpluses. I think this will light up this site. So Ok it needs a little life.
[QUOTE][QUOTE=RcCollins;441532]Setting your verbal gymnastics aside, the statement below is a factual conclusion no independent voter can deny.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=RcCollins;441511]ISIS is a direct result of the Iraq invasion but the right will never admit that.[/quote] [/QUOTE]I'm a (registered) "independent voter" and I deny your so called "factual conclusion", I view your statement as an "argument from ignorance" because it can't be proven or disproven. I think the problem started before Bush.
[QUOTE=RcCollins;441511]Bush or any conservative "war" president in command is not a deterrent nor would not put fear in the hearts of any irrational country or groups. If irrational people feared military power, 9-11 would never had occurred.[/QUOTE][B]Obama the bomber has bombed seven countries in six years![/B]
Some of the bombings I refer to started under Bush but Obama continued them and even increased some. Apparently bombings from a Nobel Peace Prize holding president hasn't struck much fear in their hearts either.
So where do you suggest we go from here?
Punter, when W approved bombings he was trying to defeat bad guys and encourage democracy. When O approved bombings he was trying to clean up the mess W left behind.
It took our country 100 years to perfect democracy. OK this is debatable but in my opinion not until we fought a civil war did our democracy take hold. W and his cronies thought all they had to do was create a situation were citisens got to vote for their leader and that was democracy. W should of spent a little time studying history and what took place in Paris in 1917.
When W took out Hesein he removed the only force that was a balance against Iran. Hell we supported Iraq in their 8 year war with Iran. The world will be dealing with the mess W created for mucho mucho years.
Ok this is serious. If my bail bondsman comes through I will be in BA on Oct 08. I would love to meet any of you members for a beer. If the truth were known I am a well experienced rookie. Let me pick your brain for info. I have been to BA many times and I really love it. But with your knowledge and insight things would be better.
Has anyone been to the bar toward the end of Florida Street with the Alto sax player. I can't remember his name but if you walk to the end of Florida st he is on the left side standing just a little in the street. I can be found most nights in the outside cafe listening to his great music You can recognize me as I am a very handsome, slim, tall well dressed guy with girls hanging all over me.
Well OK I am short pudgy and you can recognize me being alone.
Join me for a beer.
[QUOTE=Punter127;441551]I'm a (registered) "independent voter" and I deny your so called "factual conclusion", I view your statement as an "argument from ignorance" because it can't be proven or disproven. I think the problem started before Bush.
[B]Obama the bomber has bombed seven countries in six years![/B]
Some of the bombings I refer to started under Bush but Obama continued them and even increased some. Apparently bombings from a Nobel Peace Prize holding president hasn't struck much fear in their hearts either.
So where do you suggest we go from here?[/QUOTE]You're an independent voter in the same vein as Bill O'Reilly who also regularly claims to be independent but spends his nights bashing Obama and the democrats for everything while exculpating Bush and the right on most issues. An independent would go after both sides equally unless they've reached a conclusion as to which party they prefer as you seem to have done by your postings. Which is fine BTW, but in that case you cease to be independent.
What are the chances you will vote for a democrat in the next election given that their policies will always be liberal and appear to be in direct contrast to your postings? Your countering of the factual conclusion with an opinion is so not persuasive. Prior to Bush no groups dared to operate from Iraq because of the tyrant that was running the country and that is not an opinion. You missed the point about war presidents as that was a response to the post below and not anything you wrote but your derisive labeling of Obama again eliminates any doubts as to where your allegiance lies.
As to where do we go from here, we need more independent lawmakers to take action for the good of the country domestically and internationally. The two party system is screwing the tax payers royally. Very little gets done while both sides continually blame each other while they get rich off the tax payers. A large threat to the tax payers is right under our noses, our own law makers. Specifically as it relates to ISIS or any other terrorist groups which affect all countries; its quite simple, ALL countries need to step up and participate in or support the war against these groups. The US cannot be the constables of the world, the US needs to sit one or two of these conflicts out and let the chips fall. A lot of these countries sit on their hands because they know that America will always give up its citizens to die for the cause.
Collins, there is nothing wrong with the system, the problem lies with career politicians both liberal and conservative and I use those labels lightly. They are more interested in reelection and feathering their own nests than the people's business. I don't remember the last time a poor boy got elected to Congress and did not leave a millionaire. Which raises the perfect argument for term limits, if it's good enough for the president then it's good enough for the House and Senate. At least in Texas we reduce our state legislature's mischief by limiting their ability to meet to 140 days every two years, maybe a good yardstick for Washington? Idle hands are the devil's play things.
The country elected a clown and now we have a circus; foreign policy, what foreign policy?; domestic policy. What domestic policy? ObamaCare, bears no resemblance in fact to what was promised and is about to collapse after the ruling there is no provision for subsidies under the federal program which I am sure is going to the Supremes making it the last nail in the coffin for that Frankenstein of a program.
Depending on the poll, Obama's numbers are in the high 30's or very low 40's, so we are talking Bush territory for the "Savior of American".
LOL yall talk politics with the chicas too? Who gives a shit about iraqi islamic whatevers they got pussy all over the place here.
[QUOTE=Doppelganger;441559]Collins, there is nothing wrong with the system, the problem lies with career politicians both liberal and conservative and I use those labels lightly. They are more interested in reelection and feathering their own nests than the people's business. I don't remember the last time a poor boy got elected to Congress and did not leave a millionaire. Which raises the perfect argument for term limits, if it's good enough for the president then it's good enough for the House and Senate. At least in Texas we reduce our state legislature's mischief by limiting their ability to meet to 140 days every two years, maybe a good yardstick for Washington? Idle hands are the devil's play things.
The country elected a clown and now we have a circus; foreign policy, what foreign policy?; domestic policy. What domestic policy? ObamaCare, bears no resemblance in fact to what was promised and is about to collapse after the ruling there is no provision for subsidies under the federal program which I am sure is going to the Supremes making it the last nail in the coffin for that Frankenstein of a program.
Depending on the poll, Obama's numbers are in the high 30's or very low 40's, so we are talking Bush territory for the "Savior of American".[/QUOTE]Gosh that was an odd and contradictory statement! You stated that there was nothing wrong with the system then went on to list a number of problems affecting said system and even offered a solution to fix the system. The last paragraph of your post is as oxymoronic as the first but too vitriolic to respond to.