American Politics during the Obama Presidency

Yeah, when I work I face 41.05% marginal taxation with the Obamacare effect. So fuck it. My target is to make $6500 a year by working and contribute it all to my IRA. Not a penny more. It's gonna take a few more years for people 50-65 years old to realize they can just flat out quit and get subsidized insurance, but as awareness sets in, you'll see more of them packing it in. Obamacare is also good for younger folks who want to quit their jobs and travel or fuck off or chase hookers for a year or so. They get kicked off their parents' insurance when they turn 26 and since they're still living in the parents' basement, this way they can still pay for their health insurance along with their subscriptions to Pandora and Hulu and their iPhones. Oh, wait a minute; their parents are paying for all that shit too.

Never mind.

[QUOTE=Esten;442164]Actually I speak for myself. If my comments are similar to others, they are likely just looking at the same set of facts.

About the DNC though, Debbie Wasserman Schultz has to go. She has never been a great face of the party, and she failed at coordinating a clear unified message for Democrats this year. It will be a mistake to keep her on.

BTW Doppel, I still haven't seen you THANK Obama for his tax policies that are helping you BIG TIME, saving you almost $20,000 a year via the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012.[/QUOTE]First of all I have saved nothing under Obama. Point of fact between taxes and ObamaCare running up my employee health costs over 60% in three years I am worse off now than when he took office.

Why should I thank you for anything Esten, you have done nothing but propagate the DNC's propaganda for years. If the mid-terms were not a repudiation of Obama and his policies I don't know what is.

When Carter starts criticizing Obama you know something is really wrong. Obama will go down as the biggest failure as a president in American History replacing the stupid peanut farmer! By the way Carter's grandson got his ass handed to him on Tuesday as well.

Just educate them.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;442155]There are refineries in China and eastern Canada, and actually that's where the oil will go in the longer term without Keystone. What you say about natural gas is probably correct. We will always be net importers of oil though.

Are you the son of World Travel 69? Just wondering as he's from the bay area, and also believes the most important goal of the federal government should be to screw the Texans and the southerners.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;442175]

Obama will go down as the biggest failure as a president in American History replacing the stupid peanut farmer! .[/QUOTE]Your assertion is so ridiculous and utterly inaccurate I wonder if even a right wing ultraconservative such as yourself actually believes it. Obviously what will happen between tomorrow and January 20, 2017 is not known, but barring a catastrophic geopolitical or economic event Obama will be judged kindly by the historians involved in ranking Presidential Administrations. No matter what its "final" iteration is, the Affordable Care Act aka "Obamacare" is here to stay and its initiation will be judged by historians as a landmark event in US history on the level of Social Security and Medicare. Obama will also be given credit for overseeing the massive recovery from the so-called Great Recession and for successfully ordering the military strike that killed Osama bin Ladin.

[QUOTE=ElAlamoPalermo;442179]Your assertion is so ridiculous and utterly inaccurate I wonder if even a right wing ultraconservative such as yourself actually believes it. Obviously what will happen between tomorrow and January 20, 2017 is not known, but barring a catastrophic geopolitical or economic event Obama will be judged kindly by the historians involved in ranking Presidential Administrations. No matter what its "final" iteration is, the Affordable Care Act aka "Obamacare" is here to stay and its initiation will be judged by historians as a landmark event in US history on the level of Social Security and Medicare. Obama will also be given credit for overseeing the massive recovery from the so-called Great Recession and for successfully ordering the military strike that killed Osama bin Ladin.[/QUOTE]EAP would you care to place a bet on ACA in it's final form as passed by the House and Senate and signed by Obama will remain intact?

I can tell you that simply will not happen and it will be judged as the colossal failure it is. The total ineptitude of the Obama administration from domestic policy to foreign policy to the use of the IRS to inflict injury on his political enemies will make Carter look sterling when compared to Obama.

Obama has diminished both the country and the presidency and will be judged accordingly.

Either Boehner or McConnell acknowledged yesterday that they don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare. I don't agree with EAP about how Obama will be judged but I do think the ACA will become like Medicare and fifty years from now it will be taken for granted. Of course, maybe they will have the votes in 2017. The US is starting to remind me of Chile or Uruguay, lurching back and forth from right to left every other election. It did seem like in general moderates won and extremists on both sides lost, so that could be a start.

If I were Obama I would call in five highly influential Republican senators and five highly influential Democratic ones and I would say, "Write your best idea for what we can accomplish in the next two years on this piece of paper in the next sixty seconds and then get the fuck out." Then I would pick the best two Republican ideas and the best two Democratic ones, call the same ten fucks, I mean folks, back in and say, "I don't want to hear one more word out of any of you fuckers until you come up with some bipartisan legislation on these four ideas." Then guarantee them that whatever they come up with, he won't veto.

[QUOTE=Dickhead;442184]Either Boehner or McConnell acknowledged yesterday that they don't have the votes to repeal Obamacare. I don't agree with EAP about how Obama will be judged but I do think the ACA will become like Medicare and fifty years from now it will be taken for granted. Of course, maybe they will have the votes in 2017. The US is starting to remind me of Chile or Uruguay, lurching back and forth from right to left every other election. It did seem like in general moderates won and extremists on both sides lost, so that could be a start.

If I were Obama I would call in five highly influential Republican senators and five highly influential Democratic ones and I would say, "Write your best idea for what we can accomplish in the next two years on this piece of paper in the next sixty seconds and then get the fuck out." Then I would pick the best two Republican ideas and the best two Democratic ones, call the same ten fucks, I mean folks, back in and say, "I don't want to hear one more word out of any of you fuckers until you come up with some bipartisan legislation on these four ideas." Then guarantee them that whatever they come up with, he won't veto.[/QUOTE]That's called "leadership", which is a skill that Obama doesn't possess.

I didn't say I was holding my breath waiting for it to happen. But you make a good point. I look back at the presidents in my lifetime and I just don't see an outstanding leader, as in none, as in zero. In fairness I do not remember Eisenhower. Kennedy had the qualities but didn't get much of a chance. The rest of 'em, not too impressive. I was just looking at the last few governors of my state, which is a swing state. I went back three Dems and three Republicans. Just nothing really outstanding about any of them.

I think Charles Barkley would make a good president. Plus he likes hookers.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;442183]EAP would you care to place a bet on ACA in it's final form as passed by the House and Senate and signed by Obama will remain intact?

I can tell you that simply will not happen and it will be judged as the colossal failure it is. The total ineptitude of the Obama administration from domestic policy to foreign policy to the use of the IRS to inflict injury on his political enemies will make Carter look sterling when compared to Obama.

Obama has diminished both the country and the presidency and will be judged accordingly.[/QUOTE]No democratic president will ever allow the ACA to be repealed, period. Every year that passes more and more US citizens will be enrolled in the ACA and it will become (if it is not already) politically unfeasible for any party to even consider eliminating it the same as eliminating Social Security or Medicare would be impossible. As I stated in my post it is anybody's guess what the "final iteration" of the ACA will consist of (meaning it will, and should be continually updated, modernized and made more efficient as need be) but it has achieved its objective of providing the possibility of affordable healthcare to the masses and it will be going nowhere.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;442183]EAP would you care to place a bet on ACA in it's final form as passed by the House and Senate and signed by Obama will remain intact?

I can tell you that simply will not happen and it will be judged as the colossal failure it is. The total ineptitude of the Obama administration from domestic policy to foreign policy to the use of the IRS to inflict injury on his political enemies will make Carter look sterling when compared to Obama.

Obama has diminished both the country and the presidency and will be judged accordingly.[/QUOTE]First, everybody already agree that ACA is not perfect, that there will be changes down the road as they tinker and fine tune it. Why do you keep forgetting that?

Quite some time back, 3 or 4 biographers of various presidents appear on a tv talk show. They all agree that Obama would go down in the top 5 presidents all-time. They might not be as gushing today, but I think your opinion is highly prejudiced. But you are entitled to it, of course. Myself, I do not think he is top 5 and I am not astute enough to want to venture a ranking. For sure, he will be rank above Bush, Jr.

It has been very sad to see American politics the way it has been the last 2 decades. But it is a reflection of the dysfunctional state of our lifestyle. We are only saved by the great natural resources that we possess and the vigor of the thousands of immigrants that still arrive each day. If not for them, most Americans would be smoking dope, screwing their best friend's wife, suffering from some kind of disorder, and contemplating suicide! An exaggeration, of course, so no bashing, please.

With great interest, I will enjoy the new soap opera season. I can't wait for Sarah Palin to open her mouth. And of course, the main man himself, Donald Trump.

The Republicans don't have the votes to override an Obama veto of a repeal of the Affordable Care Act. They need to get over it. Its here to stay. The act is bringing medical insurance to millions of people for the first time in their lives. Plus:

-- No caps on benefits.

-- Seniors don't have a donut hole to worry about on their prescription drugs (Pres. Bush's great idea).

-- No preexisting conditions can stop people from getting insurance.

-- Young people can ride their parents insurance until age 26.

And much more. Whats not to like.

[QUOTE=Jackson;442192]the purpose of Obamacare was redistribution of wealth.[/QUOTE]If that is the case, then they sure fucked it up because without means testing it's mostly going to be a distribution of wealth to lazy assholes like me who were already well off to begin with and who know how to work the system. A lot of the others who might get a wealth transfer aren't going to be able to figure it out. If you subsidize people who have to consume the entire subsidy, they don't accrue any wealth. They just kind of survive. The real wealth transfer will be to the CPAs who have to plan around this. The ACA is a huge intergenerational financial and estate planning opportunity and that's just going to perpetuate existing wealth more so than transfer it.

Say your worthless son, Entitled Snotnose III, is getting kicked off your health insurance because he's turning 26. Not much chance of being covered under an employer plan since the little shit hasn't worked a day in his life. You can still support him and he can get Medicaid. Or say you are a CEO who has made $27 million in last five years so you retire at 60. Take all your money out that year and you too can go on Medicaid until you are 65. Makes no sense.

First I don't "hate" Obama even though he has disgraced himself, the office of the president and the country.

Please pull your head out of the sand, did you totally miss what happened on Tuesday? It was a complete repudiation of Obama and his policies. Stop whining, your boy is an idiot, get over it.

Top 5 presidents, please. Perhaps the worst 5 if not the worst.

ACA is here to stay, I doubt that. Perhaps parts of it will be rolled into a new system but ACA / Obamacare is a joke. Double digit increases this year and guess what, the federal subsidies were found to be illegal by a federal court.

Deadlines pushed back without legal authority and why, because the midterms would have been even worse if they had gone into affect. Pure politics by your boy because he is scared of his own "signature" policy.

Here's a good one for you. The IRS says they are not prepared to collect the "tax" for going naked and their web site for their side of ACA according to the IRS will be at least as bad as ObamaCare was when it was rolled out.

This thing has been a closterfuck from the start.

Tell me how great ACA is, it has boosted my employee healthcare costs 60%+ over three years and here is the kicker, our current plan will be classed a "Cadillac Plan" under ACA which means I will have to trim the benefits to avoid the additional penalty. Believe me my employees are not amused.

As far as his threat to use executive orders to provide amnesty to illegals, I hope he does. It will galvanize the electorate and perhaps provide the impetus for democrats to further distance themselves from the Emperor, joining republicans for the 2/3's majorities of the House and Senate to over ride an Obama veto of coming legislation. Remember with 54 to 55 Republicans in the Senate it will only take a few to move over. The same for the House. It's going to an interesting 2 years.

[QUOTE=RevBS;442189]
Quite some time back, 3 or 4 biographers of various presidents appear on a tv talk show. They all agree that Obama would go down in the top 5 presidents all-time. They might not be as gushing today, but I think your opinion is highly prejudiced. [/QUOTE]I saw this recently too with another historian but they do judge presidents on their accomplishment rather than partisanship. If you look objectively look at Obama's accomplishments and put your hate on hold there's no way he could be the worst presidents. Some of his feats are:

-The stock market is at an all time high, now close to 18000 points up from the 6500 or so when he took office. (personally I regained all my losses from MY TSP and 401K which I lost prior to 2008. This is a major accomplishment by anyone's standard and a huge gain for the country).

-No terrorist attack on US soil during his term to date (unlike 9-11 where so many warnings were ignored by the President conservatives want to forget).

-Killed America's number one nemesis Bin Laden (something the Republican president was unable to do) This was therapeutic for many Americans.

-Saved the Auto Industry.

-Put the economy on the right track from the disastrous road it was travelling on (its not perfect but better than where it was when he took office).

-ACA (love it or hate it, this will go down a major accomplishment similar to SS).

-Ended the extremely unpopular Iraq war saving the country's stressed out military from exhaustion.

-Allowed all citizens to freely serve the country in the Armed Services ending that discriminatory practice. (Conservatives wailed and cried when Obama did this and warned it would be the end of the military as we know it. Today this is a non-issue in our Armed Forces).

-Continually lowered the unemployment rate which dropped again this month (but conservatives now want to change the measurement metric, the same one that was always used).

What did Bush jr do to make him a better president than Obama and remember over 3000 Americans died on 9-11 needlessly because of his administration ineptitude and poor leadership and don't forget Bush's economy. Conservatives rail against Obama regardless of the issue, similarly many Liberals love him despite the issues. Obama's accomplishment will support him as being one of the best, the most loved/admired and the most hated presidents in our history but no way is he the worst, he's at the top of the list in terms of his achievements.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;442196] the federal subsidies were found to be illegal by a federal court.[/QUOTE]On the same day another and equal federal court found the exact opposite, and only as they pertained to the federal website. The states' websites were not covered by the ruling although they receive their subsidies from the feds. But just go ahead and cherry pick whatever supports your point of view.