American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Punter 127]Full story,

[url]http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/fire_boom_oil_spill_raines.html[/url]

Three Presidents failed to prepare for this type oil spill. Clinton, Bush, and Obama all failed to prepare for this type of a problem, unfortunately for Mr. Obama this happened on his watch.

Not only did the Obama administration fail to prepare in advance they also waited eight days before they even tried to find a fire boom.

That's just the facts![/QUOTE]Is the fact that the existing procedure mandates burning the spill as quickly as possible (I believe the intent is 24-48 hrs from detection to ignition) and that further authority is not needed (I. E. They don't have to get permission to light it up) Waiting 8 days to start shopping on eBay for a fire boom, is beyond incompetence.

I suspect that Obama had operatives sabotage the rig and intentionally delayed the response in order to destroy the livelihoods of all the white people who depend on the either the oil industry or the gulf to make a living (see footnote below)

Footnote: If someone in the mainstream press wrote the above passage or a notable American pol proclaimed it, there would be a horrific backlash and he would be blackballed and / or permanently barred from holding office. However, after hurricane Katrina, the very same thing was widely stated about George Bush and accepted by the media as a reasonable point of view.

I for one don't think that the oil rig explosion was Obama's fault. However - as he likes to keep reminding the GOP he won they lost - he must bear the responsibility for the delayed / failed response. That said, it is unreasonable to expect the POTUS to personally check on every detail of every government or civilian risk mitigation program and ensure that the proper procedures and equipment are in place. What we 'should' be able to expect is that the people responsible for making sure those things were in place are dealt with severely. I would be shocked if some of the responsibility doesn't rest squarely on Congress. If that is the case, we should expect that blame will be shifted to some innocent private enterprise and that the very individuals who are responsible for the disaster will appoint themselves to be the stewards of the process for correcting the problem.

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye]I would be shocked if some of the responsibility doesn't rest squarely on Congress. If that is the case, we should expect that blame will be shifted to some innocent private enterprise and that the very individuals who are responsible for the disaster will appoint themselves to be the stewards of the process for correcting the problem.[/QUOTE]That's exactly what always happens. The recent financial mess was largely Congress's fault and caused by misguided, well-meaning, wooly-headed social legislation to promote home ownership among those who can't afford to own a home. That's the simplest way to put it. But, what happens after the mess is laid bare? Congress sets up subcommittees and subpoenas executives from private companies for various high tech lynchings.

Who holds Congress accountable? Well, that's supposed to be the public, but with Congress members' ability to entrench themselves through the two-party system, franking privileges, generous travel budgets, and the fact that its generally a millionaires' club, it just doesn't happen. This election will be a little different. After it's over, however, it will quickly be back to business as usual.

Congress already is starting to try to "cover" itself. As I understand it, there is legislation limiting oil companies' clean-up responsibility to $75 million. That may not be accurate. I just heard a quick news report about it yesterday, coupled with a story about how Congress is hastily attempting to amend this (although they may have an ex post facto problem as to BP) Still, if true, why would such a provision exist after Exon Valdez?

The real culprit here, as you point out, is the Fourth Branch. The media is supposed to be holding our elected representatives accountable. Yet the mainstream media is so utterly left leaning that it functions as little more than a de facto wing of the Democrats. Sure, there are right wing media outlets as well -- Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and a few magazines here and there. But the vast majority of the news media is left leaning. Their failure to hold Democrats' feet to the fire for their opposition to reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is just the latest example of the failure to fulfill their self-professed mandate (fair, balanced reporting)

This will be no different. While George Bush was President, you had the mainstream media manufacturing stories to try to smear the administration. Dan Rather is one example, but there are many others. Don't get me wrong, Bush and the Republicans gave them plenty of ammo. But, had something like the Acorn mess happened on the Republican side, there would have been a hue and cry from all facets of the mainstream media. Instead, they attempted to brush the story aside as best they could. The same thing will happen here. This administration will get a pass from ABC, NBC, CBS, NPR, the New York Times, and others who masquerade as fair and balanced news outlets. Instead, they'll focus their rapt attention on those upon whom Congress attempts to shift the blame.

[QUOTE=Stan Da Man]The recent financial mess was largely Congress's fault and caused by misguided, well-meaning, wooly-headed social legislation to promote home ownership among those who can't afford to own a home...

...but the vast majority of the news media is left leaning. Their failure to hold Democrats' feet to the fire for their opposition to reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is just the latest example of the failure to fulfill their self-professed mandate (fair, balanced reporting)[/QUOTE]Stan,

You are completely accurate and your observations are overwhelming supported by the facts, and yet I've meet dozens of leftist liberal Democrat s who will argue vehemently that none of this is true and that in fact the mortgage debacle that precipitated the current recession was entirely [size=3][b]George Bush's fault![/b][/size]

Unfortunately, as we all know, sometimes talking to liberals is like talking to a wall.

Thanks,

Jackson

I didn't start this Obama hate fest thread and I didn't use this tragedy as an excuse to try and blame it on Obama, that was you. But I guess thats just high class morality at it's best on your part (yeah fucking right) I simply illustrated the ills of deregulation and yes I'm happy this tragedy won't be repeated in my home state.

You can try to spin this however you want to. You continue to fail miserably. I am very happy that California will not have any off shore oil drilling after this disaster. Deal with it.

[QUOTE=Punter 127]Eleven men are missing and presumed dead on that oil rig and countless other people will be adversely affected by this tragedy, emotionally and financially, and it will have an impact on the entire country, but what the hell, we'll have "no off shore drilling in California."

Gloating over gains achieved from the loss of life and misfortune of others, is very low class and reveals an extreme deficiency of character! IMHO[/QUOTE]

If you are hurting for entertainment: Gulf oil spill. Kind of sounds like it was one of those "shit happens" deals.

[url]http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=92765[/url]
[url]http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=92823[/url]
[url]http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?hpf=1&a_id=92780[/url]

When the gas lines start like they did back in the seventies, Congress will issue a permit for drilling on the White House lawn. Deep water drilling is risky, but it is the only game in town anymore for reserves.

Facts are BP had a blowout. The blow out preventer failed, rig burned and sunk.

Where was BP's disaster plan? Oh wait I forgot, they said it could not happen.

Why did BP not have burn booms? They said they did not need it.

Why did BP not have an austic switch? They lobbied for them being too expensive.

BP hedged there bets that there would never be a blowout in deep water. There bet was wrong and they failed. Time to pay. Oh wait wall street did this too and they were bailed out.

This is not really political at this point. Its going to need an engineering marvel. Working at that depth (5000 feet) is more hostile than the moon.

This box they want to lower over the leaks is a joke also. If you can do math and load paths you will realize that the pressures involved are out of this world. I don't think there is a flex hose in the world that could handle the salt water and those pressures for long. It will need a big ass steel pipe holding it to the barge above.

Also BP was supposed to have another cutoff valve 200 feet under the seabed that was not cost effective either and was descoped.

We all have seen how much Exxon was on the hook for Valdez, oh wait they did not have to pay the settlement after 20 years.

I'm sorry but Oil is not the future.

This is not about Bush or Obama this is just common sense. Oh wait I can piss farther than you!

[QUOTE=Jackson]I've meet dozens of leftist liberal Democrat s who will argue vehemently that none of this is true and that in fact the mortgage debacle that precipitated the current recession was entirely [size=3][b]George Bush's fault![/b][/size][/QUOTE]I find that very hard to believe! Where do you encounter so many of these liberal Democrats?

Although I lean Democratic I don't believe it was all Bush's fault. There were many players involved. Bush himself probably had very little to do with it, though it did happen under his watch.

[QUOTE=BadMan]Maybe you missed the point of my statement there. I was simply pointing out the stupidity of that dumb broads uneducated blanket statement that her followers repeat as a mantra. I'm pretty happy this means no off shore drilling in California. You guys can keep your oil slicks in Florida. No one said petrol wasn't integral to our economy. Deregulation of the oil industry is pure lunacy and we are seeing a clear example why right now.

THAT WAS THE MAIN POINT IN MY POST.

Nice try though.[/QUOTE]As someone who has worked in the oil industry, I got your point. You called me and about half my friends and co-workers "retards".

I get annoyed by the "not in my backyard" mentality a lot of people have. There should be no offshore drilling in California. There should be no windmills off the coast of Massachusetts. Etc.

There's risk and environmental hazard associated with production and use of coal, oil, natural gas, and nuclear. I've had friends lose fingers and thumbs on oil rigs. And suffer 3rd degree burns in a gas plant and spend weeks in ICU. It's OK for people in Wyoming or West Texas or Louisiana or Nigeria or the North Sea or Russia to risk their lives and their backyards so you can drive your car and heat your home. But you shouldn't have to bear any risk whatsoever. That attitude has gotten California where it is today. A place that sucks resources from other places, produces less than it consumes, and exists on the edge of bankruptcy.

The oil and gas industry is highly regulated in the U.S. It was never de-regulated. Until two years ago I would have argued the level of regulation was about right. Now, though, there's a good chance future natural gas production is going to be cut way back from what it could be as a result of over-regulation of hydraulic fracturing. And after the BP incident, most of the U.S. offshore and a good percentage of onshore acreage will continue to be off limits to the industry. I don't know of any country in the world that restricts where companies can drill offshore to the extent that the U.S. does. Certainly Australia, the United Kingdom and Norway are much more industry friendly in that way.

This is not a critique, I just want to add a few things to what you said and continue to stir the pot.

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter]Facts are BP had a blowout. The blow out preventer failed, rig burned and sunk.[/QUOTE]Yep. That is what happens when the shit hits the fan on a rig. Tough business.

[quote=]Where was BP's disaster plan? Oh wait I forgot, they said it could not happen.[/QUOTE]All rig owners and operators have disaster plans, drills, etc. The question is did their disaster plan include a blast of this magnitude?

[quote=]Why did BP not have burn booms? They said they did not need it.[/QUOTE]They weren't required to have them. There are over 4000 rigs in the Gulf, why don't any of the rest of them have fire booms? The maker that supplied the one fire boom last week only had one on hand and then contacted a number of foreign customers to see if the US Govt could borrow theirs.

[quote=]Why did BP not have an austic switch? They lobbied for them being too expensive.[/QUOTE]Even if the rig had an AS, as I understand it, an AS wouldn't have worked in this case. The power of the blast was too great, damaging the 'valve' that would have been shut off. The AS is a redundancy of the transmitter to the "closing" mechanism (a really expensive remote control) not an actual redundancy of shut off valves. The AS would send the same signal sent by the rig when it went up in flames to the same damaged or destroyed valve that failed after the initial blast.

The rig in question cost more than US$700 million. The AS is about $500k. They didn't have it because it wasn't required, not because it cost too much.

[quote=]BP hedged there bets that there would never be a blowout in deep water. There bet was wrong and they failed. Time to pay. Oh wait wall street did this too and they were bailed out.[/QUOTE]Yep. That is the nature of the game. Their exposure for the spill is supposedly capped at $75 million by US law, anything above that BP would have to volunteer to pay or lose in court. Wall St. Didn't have a $75 million stop order in place.

[quote=]This is not really political at this point. Its going to need an engineering marvel. Working at that depth (5000 feet) is more hostile than the moon.

This box they want to lower over the leaks is a joke also. If you can do math and load paths you will realize that the pressures involved are out of this world. I don't think there is a flex hose in the world that could handle the salt water and those pressures for long. It will need a big ass steel pipe holding it to the barge above.[/QUOTE]When we meet for a beer, I will draw you a picture of the solution and tell you how it works (really, it is proprietary)

[quote=]We all have seen how much Exxon was on the hook for Valdez, oh wait they did not have to pay the settlement after 20 years.[/QUOTE]Yes and yes.

[quote=]I'm sorry but Oil is not the future.[/QUOTE]Reality says otherwise.

[quote=]This is not about Bush or Obama this is just common sense.[/QUOTE]Now those are two names not normally mentioned in the same sentence with that concept.

[quote=] Oh wait I can piss farther than you![/QUOTE]I didn't think you were watching. If I knew you were, I would have made sure I was aiming down wind, breathed rhythmically and pushed harder! I like to make a good first impression.

Alternate answer to this one "longer device doesn't need to shoot as far to hit the target."

8 minutes of clips from 2004 hearing on Regulation of Freddie & Fannie Mae.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4A0RuXhnQA[/url]

Don't stop there. You investigate further and decide who is innocent.

Don't blindly cling to stereotypes you are feed daily.

Best wishes to all.

Nuevo

[QUOTE=Nuevo Espanol]8 minutes of clips from 2004 hearing on Regulation of Freddie & Fannie Mae.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4A0RuXhnQA[/url]

Don't stop there. You investigate further and decide who is innocent.

Don't blindly cling to stereotypes you are feed daily.

Best wishes to all.

Nuevo[/QUOTE]EXACTLY! That clip should be required viewing for anyone who thinks the government can efficiently run or regulate anything, or that social legislation doesn't come with negative and costly consequences. Anyone who thinks that the housing mess -- or the last two years of economic malaise -- should be laid at George Bush's feet ought to be forced to watch that video before uttering a syllable.

God help us now that these people have seen fit to stick their noses into health care. Phew! Is this going to be a mess? [Yes, that's rhetorical.]

Mister Walleye,

I get into BA in 3 weeks. I look forward to that beer and your napkin sketches if your in town.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter]Mister Walleye,

I get into BA in 3 weeks. I look forward to that beer and your napkin sketches if your in town.

Cheers[/QUOTE]Although I may need the napkins to wipe the drool off my chin.

Oh my the way how is that box working out BP?

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter]Oh my the way how is that box working out BP?[/QUOTE]A 100 ton box made of steel and concrete to perform lowering it miles into the ocean trying to land it on the head of a pin.

That's why they need my solution.

Or perhaps it is about filing every business transaction with the IRS so that they can tax you to death. The "health care law" requires every business to file a 1099 for every transaction (or series of transactions with the same vendor) totaling $600 or more. That means, if you use $600 of gas from Mobile during the year, you have to get their tin and file a 1099. New laptop? 1099. Landscaper cutting lawn at office? 1099. Home Depot for office improvements? 1099. 3 trips to the same amp for relief from biz stress? 1099.

[url]http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2010/04/26/costly-irs-mandate-slipped-into-health-bill/[/url]

As one who had a significant short position in the equities markets thinking that the so called ''economic recovery'' was a hoax - I am more and more impressed with Obama. He must be doing something right.

As far as the Health Care legislation goes - we had to do something. Health care in the United States is a hoax. We could spend every cent of our GNP on health care and it would not extend anybodies life expectancy by even one day.

It is time we drew a line in the sand. Cut health care expenditures in half which would be in line with other countries. Tell the whiners to take their silly ass colds and sprained ankles down the street to perchance find somebody who gives a shit.

For crying out loud, Cubans, who might spend 25 cents a year on health care, have a longer life expectancy that we do in the United States.

I am afraid I have lost you.

Please don't take this as criticism (we are all bathed in this propaganda daily from birth) As pointed out by some of my friends here, I have too much time on my hands and I am bored. However, I do not consider my efforts to share my perspective as either proselytizing or a waste of time, rather, it is more of a service to the community.

[QUOTE=El Alamo]As one who had a significant short position in the stock exchanges with this idea the so called ''economic recovery'' was a hoax - I am more and more impressed with Obama. He must be doing something right.[/QUOTE]The recovery is in spite of the govt (and all their job-killing legislation) not because of it. It is a tribute to the free market (for now) American economy that it can come back in the face of new crushing taxes, regulation and incentives for people not to go back to work. The stock market is a leading economic indicator, however, the broader question for the recovery is jobs, which this administration and congress seem intent to destroy. This is truth, not hyperbole (apologies to you libs for using big words)

Before you jump up and claim I want a regulation-free economy, "let me be clear" there is a need for basic regulation and strict enforcement of the laws. That said, many industries in the US face incredible (in many cases unnecessary) regulatory hurdles that their foreign competitors do not. If you add regulation, you add cost. If you raise taxes, you raise cost. The administration and congress have added numerous disincentives for US companies to add employees. So instead of adding a new employee at point "x" in the recovery, companies will wait until point "why" or maybe point "z" so as to be able to rationalize that extra cost of adding that employee. Many companies will chose not to add that employee.

When the economy goes to sh*t, companies (particularly publicly traded ones or those with debt) will immediately look to shed variable costs (I. E. Those costs that can be changed in the near-term as opposed to fixed costs like long-term leases, etc) in order to maintain profitability (good thing) and competitiveness (another good thing) Normally, the biggest variable cost is payroll. What is often lost in the media is that large and small companies need to make profits to stay alive. Further, companies with debt need to comply with the covenants (a series of rules and measures that are aimed at ensuring the safety of the lenders money) associated with the debt. Often, debt covenants will include ratios of debt service to EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) free cash flow or other measure of profitability. If you are not in compliance with the covenants, there are penalties (like late charges on your credit cards) which make the debt more expensive (or even make all the principal and interest due immediately) and further impact the company at a time of economic turmoil. Therefore, many times management has little if any choice to swing the axe.

So this is how it works:

1) economy goes to hell in a hand basket.

2) companies shed huge amounts of workers (drastically reducing costs)

3) companies chug along with smaller workforce and realize greater profitability.

4) improved profitability attracts investors.

5) more buyers of stock (increased demand) in the face of finite supply drives the price of stock up.

6) good stock performance makes everyone feel good. Management thinks "why f*ck up a good thing by adding to head count?" - company keeps chugging with lower headcount, profitability continues to improve.

7) improved profitability attracts more investors.

8) more buyers of stock (increased demand) in the face of finite supply drives the price of stock up.

9) at the point when it becomes clear that growth is inhibited by not adding to head count, management will start to hire.

10) increased costs eat into profit margins, profitability plateaus or slightly declines (margin not necessarily in nominal numbers)

11) lower trajectory of profitability brings fewer buyers to the stock.

12) fewer buyers and perhaps a few sellers, in the face of finite supply, the stock trades sideways or in a band.

[quote=]As far as the Health Care legislation goes - we had to do something.[/QUOTE]Why? Is destroying it better than working with an imperfect solution?

[quote=]It is time we drew a line in the sand. Cut health care expenditures in half which would be in line with other countries.[/QUOTE]Why? If we allow the free market to reign and allow companies to profit in this sector, we can continue to have the best health care in the world and we can spend more of GDP on health care than other countries because we chose to do so. The amount of GDP spent on health care is a BS statistic which is totally meaningless. We spend more of GDP on defense than anyone else. Should we stop that too?

[quote=]Tell the whiners to take their silly ass colds and sprained ankles down the street to perchance find somebody who gives a shit.[/QUOTE]I quite agree, if I am paying for their health care. If they are paying out of their own pockets, let them go, they are helping the economy recovery.

[quote=]For crying out loud, Cubans, who might spend 25 cents a year on health care, have a longer life expectancy that we do in the United States.[/QUOTE]This really hurts. I know that you are not a hopeless liberal. Don't fall for the propaganda. Health care in Cuba is woefully inadequate. Comparing the US life expectancy numbers to most other countries is apples to oranges. In the US, we count every live birth no matter the circumstances (say born at 24 weeks gestation) When that baby doesn't make it (I. E. Death at 0 years old) that screws up the statistics. I don't hear anyone proposing that we ban neonatal care in order to increase our life expectancy.

I can attest to the reduction in staff to curtail costs. Every and I do mean every one of my clients is or have laid off from 10% to 50% of their workforce to lower costs. They are also cutting 401k company contributions; reducing, shifting cost to the employee or totally cutting healthcare coverage due to recent hikes in coverage costs ahead of ObamaCare; and are actively seeking every dime they can save in operational costs.

Here in Houston, things are about to get a lot worse with the shifting of the military truck manufacturing contract from Texas (a red state) to Ohio (a blue state) and the killing off a major portion of NASA and shifting work from Texas (a red state) to Florida (a blue state) The market going up and down is not affecting jobs here unless it is to just reinforce management's tactic to hunker down and wait and see.

Even my international clients I sub for are cutting back and consolidating which has bitten me in the butt personally!

As a side line, Greece is first in line, next is Portugal then Spain. Their populations are rioting because there is nothing left to sustain their "social program spending" but they want it and don't care. We maybe next, just look at all the protests over Arizona's immigration law and they only want to enforce the laws that are on the Federal books at the state level since the Feds won't. - Give me mine and screw everyone else is how all these folks think.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger]shifting of the military truck manufacturing contract from Texas (a red state) to Ohio (a blue state) and the killing off a major portion of Nasa[/QUOTE]If you are in a red state, you ain't gettin' nuttin. Look at the response to the flooding in Tennessee and looming potential disaster on the coast of AL. At least with Katrina, the problems with response were human error. Here, there aren't responses because the constituents are not members of an Obama constituency.

[quote=] and shifting work from Texas (a red state) to Florida (a blue state)[/QUOTE]Gotta buy them votes in this swing state. "Shoot we might even embrace Crist (that's Charlie not Jesus)"

[quote=] The market going up and down is not affecting jobs here unless it is to just reinforce management's tactic to hunker down and wait and see.[/QUOTE]Not unless the NYSE opens a new exchange in TX.

[quote=]Even my international clients I sub for are cutting back and consolidating which has bitten me in the butt personally! [/QUOTE]Tell me about it. I gotta stop wearing these pork-chop underpants.

[quote=]As a side line, Greece is first in line, next is Portugal then Spain.[/QUOTE]Then California, then the USA.

[quote=] Their populations are rioting[/QUOTE]A small portion of the population is rioting. These miscreants are primarily govt, union layabouts (in the US think SEIU) who are pissed that they might actually have to work for a living and that what they get paid might be relative to the work that they do.

[quote=]just look at all the protests over Arizona's immigration law and they only want to enforce the laws that are on the Federal books at the state level since the Feds won't[/QUOTE]I find it hilarious that all these brilliant media types (including Obama) came out hard against AZ's law and vowed to repeal it (because 'everyone' is against it) or that it was unconstitutional. I doubt one of them read the law. If they read it, then they were lying in their public comments. That said, I was laughing when the group organizing the ballot referendum against the law called it quits, the other day. Apparently, there isn't much interest among AZ voters to lift a finger to obstruct the rule of law (which this law seeks to reinstate)

There is nothing racist or anti-anything (other than anti-lawbreaker) about protecting the sovereignty of the US.

Miami Bob: I thank WW everyday. He has offered me sage advice and particularly good inside info on the ladies. My comments were directed publicly to WW in jest and to motivate him to be more proactive in getting his ass to BsAs for some good times.

I do disagree with his politics but I have many friends who share his beliefs that I have a spirited discourse with almost constantly in fun and to enlighten them as to their misguide perception of reality. Jajaja.

I agree that only a small number of the folks are rioting in Greece and those are the ones feeling the pinch but they do get a lot of publicity, don't they. Last poll I saw on immigration reform was 70+% favor the Az law and lets face it most of those folks out protesting it and waving the Mexican flags are illegals - and as with Greece they get one heck of a lot of press from the main stream media so they appear as more than they are but it is funny the media seems to miss all the violence.

One question - where the hell is ICE at these demonstrations? Could get a good start on the new program right there!

[QUOTE=Doppelganger]I agree that only a small number of the folks are rioting in Greece and those are the ones feeling the pinch but they do get a lot of publicity don't they. Last poll I saw on immigration reform was 70+% favor the Az law and lets face it most of those folks out protesting it and waving the Mexican flags are illegals - and as with Greece they get one heck of a lot of press from the main stream media so they appear as more than they are but it is funny the media seems to miss all the violence.

One question - where the hell is ICE at these demonstrations? Could get a good start on the new program right there![/QUOTE]In the little styrofoam coolers the protesters bring with them

Here are three more examples of the erosion of personal freedom under Obama's move towards dictatorship.

As I previously mentioned, all corporate expenditures greater than $600 will require filing a 1099.

Also, the financial regulation bill (being pushed in the Senate by the criminal Chris Dodd) includes these two new agencies:

•The Office of Financial Research. This supposedly would predict risk in the system by collecting massive amounts of new financial data, such as patterns of credit card use.

•The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. It would collect data, especially on consumer transactions.

If anyone doubts that this administration and congress want to control everything about your life, this should help to remove those doubts.

"As I previously mentioned, all corporate expenditures greater than $600 will require filing a 1099."

They already do.

"•The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. It would collect data, especially on consumer transactions."

The stores already have this data, that's why they want you to have a "Safeway" card so they can track your purchases and control what coupons you receive on the back of your receipt. Companies pay big money for this kind of targeted marketing. The same data is just being used by the government for a different reason. If you don't want to be tracked, pay cash. Anonymity of purchases went out the door a long time ago.

As an aside, collecting information is not inherently good or evil, it is how the data is used that is good or evil. I certainly don't trust the government to do anything but find more creative ways to tax me. However, in the right hands it can be used to do great things.

Sysco234

I find rants by WW and his anti-Obama buds rather ironic.

For some reason, the only activities beyond mongering with an easy conscience that they seem to feel strongly should be protected from inappropriate government interference are ones that relate to commerce - or money to use the cruder term.

The freedom to cheat, steal and dissemble when making a buck or keeping it from taxation must be protected at all costs. Not so much the freedom of speech, the press, free assembly or telecommunicating without unlawful ease-dropping.

I don't remember much in the way of expressed outrage about the erosion of personal freedoms under Bush.

Remember when W's lawyers claimed the President - under the unified executive mis-interpretation of the Constitution theory - could secretly tap peoples' phones, intercept their internet communications, kidnap and imprison forever foreigners and citizens in secret prisons without access to lawyers or any right to trial - not after court reviewed evidence of alleged involvement in terrorism, but with no review at all - under the "You Can Trust Us" War on Terror theory. Was this something that outraged people - other than us wussy liberals?

Similarly, is there outrage about eroding freedoms from these people now that Arizona will require anyone who is out on their street to have documentary proof of their citizenship with them at all times and be subject to arbitrary questioning by police on the vaguest "reasonable suspicion" about their citizenship status.

"Show Me Your Papers" has replaced "God Enriches" as the Arizona state motto to the consternation of the uber-Christian capitalist crowd!

Now - according to the WW crew - only one God of freedom exists who must be kept free from interference - the God of the Holy Buck!

The reality that the unfettered freedom of individual and corporate capitalists in the complex, computerized world of international finance poses a real, present and continuous threat to the viability of the world economy and the economic well-being of everyone on the planet is irrelevant.

Only the God of the Holy Buck is sacrosanct.

The "I've Got Mine and Everyone Else Can Go Fuck Themselves" elements of society are well represented here at AP - but a few of us ain't buying what they are selling!

[QUOTE=Sysco234]"As I previously mentioned, all corporate expenditures greater than $600 will require filing a 1099."

They already do.

Sysco234[/QUOTE]Absolutely not. You don't send 1099s to Inc.'s right now, which are the vast, vast majority of transactions. WW's report, if correct, will exponentially increase the number of 1099s.

[QUOTE=Stan Da Man]Absolutely not. You don't send 1099s to Inc.'s right now, which are the vast, vast majority of transactions. WW's report, if correct, will exponentially increase the number of 1099s.[/QUOTE]I was thinking of partnerships, my bad. After some research there are some circumstances where you need to give one to corporations if it's for legal, medical, or healthcare purposes.

That said, it's all about the taxes. Tax revenue is down, rather then cut spending, the gov't figures out expensive ways to account for revenue they think isn't being reported.

Sysco

I haven't researched the three examples Walleye listed, but if he sees them as a negative, I am almost certain they are things that will benefit the average American and offset the transfer of wealth to the rich.

This thread has so suffered since ol' Sidney went south. As far as the hopeless liberals goes! Keep it real dude for once. Many americans are waiting till Novemeber till the scales change BIG Time! Sadly, nothing will advance until Abomonation is castrated. But we'll just have to ride out the two year impotence period till some serious leadership returns to the whitehouse. A neutered Obamanation is better than an impowered lunitic attempting to destroy the ameriacn dream IMHO! Tick. Tick. Tick. America will reset the clock in November and get itself back on the right track. Sometimes, doing nothing wrong is better than doing everything wrong! Happy Mongering All. Toymann

Ps. This is an opinion that both moderate republicans and independents in america now share. Most independents in the US that voted for Obamination now regret their decision BIG TIME! Hell hath no fury like an independent spurned! LOL. Just wait till Novemeber! LOL!

You had me at hello.

[QUOTE=Toymann]This thread has so suffered since ol' Sidney went south. As far as the hopeless liberals goes! Keep it real dude for once. Many americans are waiting till Novemeber till the scales change BIG Time! Sadly, nothing will advance until Abomonation is castrated. But we'll just have to ride out the two year impotence period till some serious leadership returns to the whitehouse. A neutered Obamanation is better than an impowered lunitic attempting to destroy the ameriacn dream IMHO! Tick. Tick. Tick. America will reset the clock in November and get itself back on the right track. Sometimes, doing nothing wrong is better than doing everything wrong! Happy Mongering All. Toymann.

Ps. This is an opinion that both moderate republicans and independents in america now share. Most independents in the US that voted for Obamination now regret their decision BIG TIME! Hell hath no fury like an independent spurned! LOL. Just wait till Novemeber! LOL![/QUOTE]Esten, you are spot on. All tools necessary to control the people and transfer wealth to those who didn't earn. Viva la revulsion!

Sysco & Stan: re:1099s, the amount of additional paper pushing will cost companies billions in compliance. However, we'd be lucky if that was the only repercussion or if that were the intent of the regulation. This is an attempt by the government to force companies to provide the IRS with all of the information necessary to recreate your income statement (P & L) on their own computers (to be done en masse by software which will produce inaccurate results) which they will then compare against your tax returns. If the variance is big enough, knock, knock.

As far as the Form 1099 issue, even though I have all my clients on competent accounting systems and assisted in their implementation, WW and TM are right about the costs associated with tracking all vendor transactions over $600, not to mention the forms cost (even if you print them on plain paper. Add the cost of accounting and reconciliation of all your reports to the Form 1096 to the initial preparation of the individual 1099's and you have a real time killer and that translates into more record keeping costs. No matter how advanced and complex our management and accounting information systems become, which should reduce record keeping and reporting costs, the good old IRS / Congress keeps coming up with new requirements to be sure the time it takes to comply never decreases but always increases.

[QUOTE=Toymann]Many americans are waiting till November till the scales change BIG Time! America will reset the clock in November and get itself back on the right track.

Ps. This is an opinion that both moderate republicans and independents in america now share. Just wait till Novemeber! LOL![/QUOTE]Guess what Toyfella. Things maybe ain't what they seem or the way the corporate American press foretells of a Republican resurgence. Odds are increasing that just ain't gonna happen.

Yea - incumbents either D or R got tsouris (Yiddish for problems) - but as Obama said the people aren't gonna give the keys back to the crew that ran the car into the ditch.

Here's the skinny:

The most recent AP polls show advantage D is acomin'.

Obama's popularity is up as people see he and his team get up in the morning and go to work trying to improve things while his opponents throw mud and gum up the works.

As of today, more Americans want Democrats to control Congress in 2011 and 2012 than want Republicans. With 45% for the D's and 40% for the Rs - resulting from an 8% drift away from the R's among moderates and independents in just one month.

"Obamanomics" seems to be working as the economy is inarguably on the mend. Job growth is slowly improving, homes are selling, retail is up and the markets (despite the insanity of last week's 15 minute crash) are volatile, but trending positive.

BP has turned "drill, baby drill" into "spill baby spill" so the R's won't have energy issues working for them in November. Their shilling for Wall Street is another albatross. Obama's anti-terror policies are working as well as W's without all the nasty stuff included. The wars are on a slow walk to Obama's credit and advantage. Odds are the Rs will go over the top on immigration to shore up their base and that will turn off fair-minded independents. The Tea Party is a double-edged sword that may draw just as much R as D blood.

Only a third of those surveyed by AP want their own lawmakers re-elected. The anti-incumbent mood say, in essence, a pox on both their houses - D and R.

Sitting members from both parties are vulnerable, but it is far from a given that Rs will oust sitting Ds and vice versa. D's may replace defeated D's and defeated R's may be replaced by other R's.

One key looking to November is married women are turning away from the R's. Young people and rural voters also see the Ds as a better bet. The D's numbers will get even stronger as Latinos and other minorities watch the R's trashing them and seemingly claiming that the American dream should be for whites only.

Of course, November is a long way off and we do live in interesting times.

[QUOTE=Toymann]This thread has so suffered since ol' Sidney went south. As far as the hopeless liberals goes! Keep it real dude for once. Many americans are waiting till Novemeber till the scales change BIG Time! Sadly, nothing will advance until Abomonation is castrated. But we'll just have to ride out the two year impotence period till some serious leadership returns to the whitehouse. A neutered Obamanation is better than an impowered lunitic attempting to destroy the ameriacn dream IMHO! Tick. Tick. Tick. America will reset the clock in November and get itself back on the right track. Sometimes, doing nothing wrong is better than doing everything wrong! Happy Mongering All. Toymann.

Ps. This is an opinion that both moderate republicans and independents in america now share. Most independents in the US that voted for Obamination now regret their decision BIG TIME! Hell hath no fury like an independent spurned! LOL. Just wait till Novemeber! LOL![/QUOTE]Maybe so, but I don't recall there being too many happy people around X'mas in 2008. Oh, you just forgot!

Yes. In 2008 we had a liberal house and senate f**cking up every positive initiative that the republicans put forward. Guesse ya forgot? You clowns have had the ball without interferrence for the past year and a half and what do you have to show for it? Thankfully, every decade or so the liberals get a chance with the "ball" and remind all of america why you should stay on the bench when it comes to running the country. November can't come too soon and you will only have yourselves to blame! What an opportunity lost! Shame on you all for pushing your "social agenga" on the rest of us and NOT dealing with the issues at hand like jobs and the economy. If ya had any sense at all you would have focussed on these issues, been successful and then during your second term you could have converted the Good Ol' USA to the socialist state your so covet! November is just around the corner, and never forget what the Toymann told ya all. "You will only have yourself to blame". LOL. Happy Mongering All. Toymann

View this video from the T. V. Series FrontLine.

Bush left Obama with no choice, either spend our way out of this Recession or we'd all go broke.

Now you Republican "Bushie" MotherFuckers watch this and learn something. Obama had no choice it had to be this way.

[url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tentrillion/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid[/url]

CockSuckers.

Exon

[QUOTE=Exon123]Either spend our way out of this Recession or we'd all go broke.[/QUOTE]ROTFLMAF!

Exon, did you even think about what you wrote?

"Spend our way out of a recession", or "we'd all go broke".

So, if we're in a recession, the answer is to borrow money we don't have and can't afford to pay back, and then throw it out the window, so we can avoid being in a position where we didn't have any money?

It's funny, but at the same time it's also sad that you actually believe this.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson]ROTFLMAF!

Exon, did you even think about what you wrote?

"Spend our way out of a recession", or "we'd all go broke".

So, if we're in a recession, the answer is to borrow money we don't have and can't afford to pay back, and then throw it out the window, so we can avoid being in a position where we didn't have any money?

It's funny, but at the same time it's also sad that you actually believe this.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Yep,.

Essentially thats exactly what he has to do El Jeffie, he has no choice.

Watch the Video and you'll learn something.

Exon

[QUOTE=Exon123]Yep,

Essentially thats exactly what he has to do El Jeffie, he has no choice.

Watch the Video and you'll learn something.

Exon[/QUOTE]Exon,

You can find a video on the internet to prove or disapprove any point.

Here's my point: If our government had NOT borrowed and then pissed away 820 billion dollars in the so-called "Stimulus Plan", our economy would be stronger today. The fact is that the American economy is an incredibly powerful wealth-generating machine, and thus is will always right itself if left alone to flourish. Unfortunately, our economy must now right itself while dragging the drogue chute of the Stimulus Plan's debt.

Nevertheless, thanks to the fortitude of the American entrepreneur and the productivity of the American worker, the US Economy will inevitably recover, upon which the liberals will congratulate themselves while admiring the "Obama Economic Miracle".

The point here is that the economic recovery will be delayed because of the stimulus borrowing, and that if we hadn't borrowed the 820 billion, the economy would have been better today.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Toymann]You clowns have had the ball without interferrence for the past year and a half and what do you have to show for it? [/QUOTE]I fear you need remedial studies in a number of areas including economics, government and politics.

Although, you assuredly know a thing, two or ten about chica selection, relations, enjoyment and mongering, your fact-free and error filled comments indicate that you know Jack shit about basic economics, politics and government in general.

To start with, among the things the American people have to show for the past 14 months of Obama's policies is the beginning of an economic recovery, as acknowledged by virtually every sentient economist and documented with every salient economic statistic. (Even El Alamo admits this!

Remember when that eloquent economist-in-chief George W. Bush said: "This sucker could go down"? Well thanks to Obama, the Ds, and Ben Bernanke among others, the sucker is breathing new life.

To wit:

1. Rather than negative GDP growth, we have positive growth.

2. Rather than losing half a million jobs a month as we did just as W left Dodge, we are adding tens of thousands of new jobs every week.

3. Housing and retail are turning around.

4. Financial markets, though volatile, are way up since W went back to Houston.

The numbers - should you care to do a little research - are all available and all point to the fact that as the TARP stabilized the financial system, the stimulus spending primed the pump and kept the economy from going into cardiac arrest. There is a long way to go and because the economy is like a person who has been in a serious crash, it will need a long time to heal even with the best medicine and the most intelligent care.

Please spare us the false claims of Ds jamming laws down the public's throat. When 60 Senators and 218 members of Congress, who represent the will of the people by definition and constitutional mandate, vote to pass a law, its called democracy. You know - that system we send our young men and women to fight for in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Your claim the Obama and the Ds have operated without any "interference" since 1/2009 is uninformed - being kind in my description.

To better educate yourself, I recommend you go online and read about how the US Senate actually operates. Look up the terms cloture and filibuster. Read how even a threatened filibuster can thwart an up or down vote on anything.

Check on the incidence of use of these procedures by minority parties pre and post Obama. Then you will "get" how the Rs use "interference" to keep Obama and the Ds from moving the ball down the field.

Since Obama took office the Senate Rs have made a habit of abusing both the cloture and filibuster rules to oppose almost all of his initiatives and cripple the appointment processes. Rather than following past traditions where these obstructive measures were used sparingly on critical legislation, in 2009 and this year the Rs are using them indiscriminately.

It might be better if you left the analysis of the big picture to better informed others - but if for whatever reason you need to vent and offer us all your fact-free ideological rants, hey, shout it out.

But, best you make plans for going on a brain-numbing bender the day after elections in November as crying in your beer may be your ultimate fate.

If things go D, then looking ahead - with continued economic growth, government revenues will increase, safety net spending will diminish and the deficits will begin to fall. Then the conservative naysayers will spend gazillians cleaning the egg off their faces and ties, further stimulating growth.

Finally, after a huge 2012 victory, the O man will continue to lead us to a better world from 2013 to 2017!