2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=Jackson;424253]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.[/QUOTE]Jackson, as you know I like facts to back up my arguments. Could you provide some examples of things from the left that weren't false?

If liberals were honest with the voters, they would be a tiny minority of our elected officials, relegated mostly to municipal positions and the Congressional seats of our most liberal cities. If Esten or any of our other resident liberals would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful liberal campaign that ran truthfully on a liberal platforms extolling liberal principals, I'd appreciate it.

More plagiarism from Jackson, taking my statement and substituting "right" with "left". He's done this before. You'll notice when I referred to doing more research, I actually then [i]presented[/i] research which proved a Republican talking point to be false. But Jackson doesn't present any research to refute my points. So his attempt to be cute only reinforces the point about a lack of substance from the right.

I got a good laugh over this poster. [url]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564526_448426308513042_431389878_n.jpg[/url] Bill is definitely more my type of guy than either of the family men Obama or Romney. For you Republicans, yeah I know if Dole had been elected 9-11 would not have occurred. Reagan had the reputation as great cocksman in his younger Hollywood days.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 424245]I live in Texas. I pay state and local taxes, as imposed by the elected representatives in my community and in my state, to pay for schools, roads, police, and medical care for the indigent. I have no problem with that, as those services are provided reasonably efficiently and as the level of taxation isn't extortionate.

Pelosi, Reid and other politicians I did not elect propose to tax me at the rates in excess of 40% and in return will provide diddly squat. Virtually nothing. They'll help pay for the interstate highways and airports with my money. That's about it, in terms of services I use.

Just exactly why isn't this theft?[/QUOTE]Taxation is a legal and economic necessity to pay for government programs and debt. No single taxpayer gets to choose exactly how tax dollars are spent, or to ensure all their tax dollars will benefit them personally. The best you can do is vote for those whose views on spending most closely match your own. If a different party wins the election, and they spend on programs their voters wanted, they are not stealing from you. You just ended up in the minority of a democratic process.

That is how our system works. Only someone focused on themselves, a 'What's in it for me? ' mentality, is going to characterize this as theft.

BTW, it's not just spending. We have a few trillion in debt to pay as well. A debt that came partly from increased spending from Obama, but mostly from Bush unfunded legacy spending, and Bush Tax Cuts and the recession which significantly defunded the government. That recession was largely attributable to conservative free-market policies. Greed is good, right? You know where that money went? Mostly into the pockets of the very wealthy. This country is getting screwed by Wall Street and the likes of Mitt Romney.

Wait till the ads come out en masse on the Romney-supported spending cuts to balance the budget (except for Defense, which he wants to increase). That will be the nail in the coffin for him. Check the polls, voters will never accept deep cuts to Medicare and other benefits, to pay for more tax breaks for the wealthy. Only a sucker would support such a policy.

I don't know what came over me, to stoop down to Toymann's level.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 424251]WT,

With all due respect, anyone who writes this incoherently has no standing to question anybody's schooling.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;424255]Pummeled? According to the polls, only you and the main stream media give a rat's ass about those two non-issues. Romney has been far more transparent that Obama.[/QUOTE]Well then, why have several Republicans, including on Fox News, been calling for Romney to release more tax returns? Why is Obama revealing the names of his bundlers, but Romney isn't? As usual, your statements are inconsistent with the facts. Behind your eloquent writing, unfortunately lies a man still gripped with ODS. Welcome back Walleye.

BTW these issues aren't going away. Romney's past business experience and tax returns are highly relevent, they provide insight into his values and his views on business. What they both tell us is Romney is a profiteer, not a job creator.

Please stop Esten, your killing me. I fell out of my chair I was laughing so hard from your most recent posts. I may have injured myself.

Team Obama's Bain Capital B / S:

Even the Washington paper's own fact checker in addition to your favorite liberal fact checker site has said the exporting jobs thing is totally false but the liberals keep pushing it. Add to that the total B / S of the SEC filings, even Team Obama knows it's B / S but they are still putting it out there hoping someone believes it. Do you think for one second the SEC would not be all over Romney if one word of it was true?

Taxes:

Oh I just love this one. With 49+% of the folks NOT PAYING ANY income tax and the other 50+% of the folks paying it all and you want to harp on how 'fair' it is to keep raising taxes on the 'rich' which is now anyone making over $200K a year. I can only assume you know nothing about business since profits get plowed back into the company for expansion, if you tax the profit away no expansion ie no jobs.

Deficit:

When you started talking about raising taxes to pay off the debt, that's the one I fell out of my chair on. Obama has generated a $1 Trillion dollar + deficit every year he has been in office. It's the spending stupid! No matter how much you raise taxes the spending out strips it every time. Spending has to be cut and that is the only way to end this cycle.

All the arguing will be over come Nov 7th.

If Team Obama continues the way they are going, Europe continues to slide, and unemployment remains above 8%, Obama is toast. I have not seen one forcaster who believes Europe, the US economy nor unemployment will make any improvement before the elction.

Never confuse personality with pocketbook when it come to getting elected Folks vote their pocketbooks when times are hard!

Monger on Dudes

[QUOTE=Esten;424267]Well then, why have several Republicans, including on Fox News, been calling for Romney to release more tax returns? Why is Obama revealing the names of his bundlers, but Romney isn't? As usual, your statements are inconsistent with the facts.[/quote]The facts are that Romney has been far more transparent than the Liar in Chief and has complied with all necessary election laws. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true, whether it is Fox News, Republicans or Democrats. We do know, however, that if it comes out of Obama's mouth, it is rarely true.

[quote=]Behind your eloquent writing, unfortunately lies a man still gripped with ODS.[/quote]Will Cipro clear that up?

[quote=]Welcome back Walleye.[/quote]It's good to be back.

[quote=]BTW these issues aren't going away. Romney's past business experience and tax returns are highly relevent, they provide insight into his values and his views on business.[/quote]The tax returns that he is required to disclose, are already public. No one seems to care about what is in them. He should not release any more and I believe most intelligent people would agree, it just plays into the opposition. If they can ask for things that are not required, when will it stop? It won't. It is a form of extortion and it knows no end.

What they do provide is insight into what one can achieve in America. I bet far more Americans would like to file a tax return like those as opposed to taking Obama's food stamps.

His values? I don't think that there is any comparison. The people will decide.

[quote=]What they both tell us is Romney is a profiteer, not a job creator.[/QUOTE]I guess I would be happy with someone who just isn't a job destroyer like Obama. If it weren't for removing a couple million people from the calculation of unemployed, the rate would be over 10%. The real rate of unemployed and under employed is north of 17%. That's a lot of people (3-5x the margin of Obama's '08 victory) with time on their hands to think about whether or not they want four more years of this bullsh*t.

There is one reason and one reason only you never hear anyone on Team Obama mention the word "deficit." That is because he has increased it more than all the presidents before him, combined. He cannot defend anything in his record. He won't even mention Obamacare, which is supposed to be his great achievement and legacy.

His increases to the deficit were purely partisan payoffs and an attempt to cripple the country he despises by creating an unsustainable level of debt. The deficit under Obama has increased by $4. 7T which is nearly 50% of the deficit, the day he took office. His deficits will be $10T in 10 years, $20T in 20 years, $40T in 30 years, $80T in 40 years and so one, without any further governmental action. And without including the cost of Obamacare.

That's a good one, Esten. The deficit. Now, I have to wipe up the coffee that I blew out my nose when I read your post.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 424269]Even the Washington paper's own fact checker in addition to your favorite liberal fact checker site has said the exporting jobs thing is totally false but the liberals keep pushing it. Add to that the total B / S of the SEC filings, even Team Obama knows it's B / S but they are still putting it out there hoping someone believes it. Do you think for one second the SEC would not be all over Romney if one word of it was true?[/QUOTE]Since the two of the key businesses that Romney made his fortune on were Staples and Dominos obviously he did not export jobs. I do not need a fact checker to figure that one out. However, Romney does include in his 100, 000 jobs created those two companies. I am not dumb enough to believe that I could not buy office supplies or have a pizza delivered without those two companies. Give Romney credit that he bought out the original entrepreneurs and improved the business so that each holds significant if not dominate market share. Often entrepreneurs are great idea men but lousy managers. My Dad knew Harold Butler (airplanes parked on the same hanger row) who started Winchells and Dennys among other businesses. Butler was brilliant idea man but a horrible manager. If you read his history most of the businesses he created are now run by private equity similar to Bain.

[QUOTE=Esten; 424244]Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the right depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the right wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.

From the link below: This executive order is based in part on the Defense Production Act of 1950, which mobilized America for the Korean War. Basically that law granted the Executive branch of government broad authority in the economy: to compel businesses to sign contracts to produce goods for the national defense, to set wage and price controls, especially on raw materials, and to even requisition property that might be useful for national defense. The Act has been reauthorized many times, most recently in 2008 by President Bush, who had previously re-authorized it in 2003. President Clinton did the same in 1994. If you read the order from Obama, it [i]delegates[/i] Authority previously conferred on the President, to others. So it can be argued Obama is reducing the power of the President, not increasing it.

Don't fall for bs Republican conspiracy theories.

[url]http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-19/politics/31209114_1_water-resources-respect-secretary[/url][/QUOTE]It states in the EO that it is from the Defense Production Act, that is not news. So if Bush and Clinton, two of the Presidents responsible for wrecking our economy have issued similar executive orders then its ok? The difference between BO & Clinton / Bush is that BO has the type of personality that would use this order on the American Public. The drones have been authorized for a reason.

BO expanded the EO to include the Dept of Homeland the Security. The same DHS whose head has labled people who believe in state's rights as terrorists and the same DHS that has purchased hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition. Between the Patriot Act, this EO, and the plethora of other laws passed in the last few years, all in the name of protecting us, I feel far less safe than ever before.

The law was mainly put in to keep certain machines or processes (ie big sumbitches that no body makes anymore) up and running to keep domestic production possible.

Although 95% of all carbon fiber used in all sorts of defense shit is made in japan, there is one loom in texas thats it.

Making shafts and propellers for navy ships is also another do do bird waiting to happen.

Bright side is we make more tritium than any other country, and export it, to the UK mainly.

I once had to move a vey large machine cross country and dealt with the defense dept wanting to know where it was going and what it would be used for the company also had to tell the DOD if they were going to shut it down. Its still up and running today making shit that goes o China for damns LOL

[QUOTE=Big Boss Man;424275]Since the two of the key businesses that Romney made his fortune on were Staples and Dominos obviously he did not export jobs. I do not need a fact checker to figure that one out. However, Romney does include in his 100, 000 jobs created those two companies. I am not dumb enough to believe that I could not buy office supplies or have a pizza delivered without those two companies. Give Romney credit that he bought out the original entrepreneurs and improved the business so that each holds significant if not dominate market share. Often entrepreneurs are great idea men but lousy managers. My Dad knew Harold Butler (airplanes parked on the same hanger row) who started Winchells and Dennys among other businesses. Butler was brilliant idea man but a horrible manager. If you read his history most of the businesses he created are now run by private equity similar to Bain.[/QUOTE]Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.

[QUOTE=SnakeOilSales;424280]Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.[/QUOTE]You are trying to sell some snake oil. Even Obama and Paul Krugman wouldn't agree about the outsourcing in their heart of hearts. Obama is saying it though, to get votes. The USA has the highest standard of living of any country in the world with a poplulation over 5 million. One reason is because of free trade. We export lower paying jobs and keep the value added work here. American manufacturing actually has been growing in recent years. This trend would accelerate if USA corporations were allowed to repatriate foreign profits and re-invest them in the USA without paying extortionate taxes. Also if school systems were reformed to train more skilled workers instead of trying to send everyone to universities to get liberal arts degrees. Unfortunately that's not going to happen as long as Democrats are in power.

Romney did the exact opposite of what you describe for pension funds for public employees. Bain has produced good returns for the pension funds that invest with it. Raiding retirement funds is what the left does, like Cristina Kirchner and Hugo Chavez.

WT69, You're right, kind of. While I did get to a high grade, I only had one professor who was a Marxist, and only a few college classes that weren't related to science. So I guess I'm not qualified to think for myself, and should let others do that for me.

I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.

Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20% - 80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70%.

Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed - Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.

And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.

It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but also that romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.

But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.