American Politics during the Bush Presidency

[QUOTE=Doppelganger]No Bacchus9 this is not a color coded alert. No I don't think we are always correct, but if you think if we leave others along they will reciprocate you are truly a lost sole, because these folks will never leave us or anyone else alone, England, Spain, Italy, France, Philippians, ect.

Islamists believe their "God" empowers them to invade and convert to Islam or slay all infidels (or take them as slaves) in any country at any time, it is their duty. Partner if you are not Muslim then infidel describes you. There is only one way, their way, period.

This has nothing to do with being American, check your history, the Moorish invasions of Spain and Europe from Africa. The Moors were Islamists, same code, same belief systems back in the 12th century and they are still following them today. Guess you would say George Bush and America caused that one too?

Doppelganger[/QUOTE]The biggest Muslim country in the World is Indonesia. With a population very near that of the US 80% of the people are Muslim. Not quite the stereotype Muslims many would like the World to believe. Their last Prime Minister was a woman!

The "Moors" or most of the Arab World has a problem with the West (of which the US is the most visible head today) that goes back to the 12th century and to say that it is caused by religious belief is as simplistic as to say that the conflict in Ireland is between Catholics and Protestants!

[QUOTE=Bacchus9]So Doppelganger is that a yellow alert or an orange alert.

It's all so reminiscent of the fear mongering the modern day Goebels used to manipulate the US population after the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center back in the 2002, 2003 and 2004. You know when they wanted to stay in power for another four years.

Keep stoking that fear and adrenaline, it's contagious and you'll bring on just what you say you fear. Like McCain, he likes to excercise that rhetoric and "shoot from the hip". Yeah howdy, head screwed on a little too tight maybe. But he is a POW, so undoubtedly he can point that out in any given difficult situation.[/QUOTE]Hmm - A candidate that has a history of surrendering? Strange people you Americans!

[QUOTE=Stowe]He can't do any worse than the war mongering, Vietnam dodging, budget busting, idiot we have now.[/QUOTE]Oh, yes he can.

Far, far worse.

[QUOTE=Bacchus9]It's all so reminiscent of the fear mongering the modern day Goebels used to manipulate the US population after the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center back in the 2002, 2003 and 2004. You know when they wanted to stay in power for another four years.

Keep stoking that fear and adrenaline, it's contagious and you'll bring on just what you say you fear. Like McCain, he likes to excercise that rhetoric and "shoot from the hip". Yeah howdy, head screwed on a little too tight maybe. But he is a POW, so undoubtedly he can point that out in any given difficult situation.[/QUOTE]I'm not being manipulated, I've just got my eyes open to the world's realities.

Do you know what's nice about being an appeaser? You get to muddle along with your head in the sand while other good people, in the process of keeping the world safe for themselves, will inadvertently keep it safe for you too.

Thanks,

Jackson

[quote=Stowe]...The reason we are so hated around the world...[/quote]That's patently inaccurate.

I've done some traveling myself, and the only people I can find that "hate America" are a vocal minority of college students, their professors, and the leftist-leaning media outlets.

The world's growing middle class generally admire Americans, the efficiency and transparency of our governmental systems, our business acumen, and the life style that we've created for ourselves.

Thanks,

Jackson

If you acknowledge that there are rapid dogs who will kill innocent women and childern to impose their extreme non-mainstream views; then Not even a substantial minority of muslems are jijadists. The more the USA abandons a concern for international public opinion and the international diplomatic community and it's traditions and institutions; the more muslems will be driven to extremes and stronger anti-usa feelings. Treat people without basic respect and they will hate your government. Act like a 900 lbs beast and eventually the "little" people will destroy that 900 lbs beast. Whether by refusing to buy our government debt,

Not supporting our currency or not supporting our foreign policy objectives when we lie to the UN. Why did Popi Bush build an international coalition including most of the usa's historical friends and allies and Baby bush spoke of freedom fries and depended on paying off third rate world powers to join his coalition.

George W. Bush is not respected internationally. Most people do not brand the entire population of the usa with the distaste that they feel for our president.

A few years ago, the public distatste for W was so strong, that I would say I am canadian. Today we have the most bombs. One day in the near future, china will have more power than the usa. I hope that those future chinese leaders do not think like some of the members of this forum.

I am not trying to change the point of view of my extreme opponents, but I am asking the reasonable intelligent people in the middle to think about the implications of continued neoconservative extremists in power and what that will mean for the USA's position in the world over the next 20 to 40 years.

Power will shift and change, the usa was respected for generally holding the moral high ground compared to other great world powers. How many wars can we fight before we destroy our economy.

Bob, no one on this post ever said all Muslim are Islamist, it is the minority who follow the radical Wahabi sect teachings. Maybe it is time for the Muslim community to police themselves? They don't because they are as afraid of these radicals as we are.

As far as the anti US feelings, in case you have not noticed both Germany and France have installed PRO US leaders who are now helping not bashing the US. The old war monger "W" must have done something right if the folks in these nations are again becoming our allies and not our detractors.

I hope you are of the Michale Moore group that believe God sent Gustov to punish the bad Republicans? Give me a break, we are the only nation in the world that keeps reinventing ourselves to continue to compete in the world, over and over and over again. If we are so evil why do so many people risk their lives to get here?

Where else could McCain get a babe like Palin for a running mate, well France does have Carla Brunni, kinda makes Sara look a little shoddy.

Lighten up guys its just Life!

Doppelganger

[QUOTE=Jackson]That's patently inaccurate.

I've done some traveling myself, and the only people I can find that "hate America" are a vocal minority of college students, their professors, and the leftist-leaning media outlets.

The world's growing middle class generally admire Americans, the efficiency and transparency of our governmental systems, our business acumen, and the life style that we've created for ourselves.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]The ostrich effect in play, here.

Sorry Jackson but it is ABSOLUTELY true as every poll taken in the past 5 years by US pollsters taken in other countries on how those in other countries feel about us has reached all-time lows to the point where the majority do not like the US-specifically the Gov't and US businesses which they blame for the 'global' economy situation which has negatively impacted so many (thank you Clinton!

Separate US citizens and the US gov't and our Gov't is despised throughout the world. They kiss our ass because of our military and the money we send them, not our of respect or love.

Anecdotal evidence based on your personal travels is meaningless as it is EXTREMELY limited. And the fact that that is what you base your opinions on should be indicative of your position.

Suerte,

Stowe

[QUOTE=Doppelganger]No Stowe the Iranian people by in large are not our enemy, but they lack the freedom to choose their own government. The Mullahs have to certify all candidates and the reformers are always eliminated from the running. Not to mention the Revolutionary Guard Corps over shadows even the military in Iran, these guys make the SS look like Sunday school kids. It will not be the Iranian people who pull the trigger it will be the Mullahs, the people will be the ones who suffer since the Mullahs will scatter like cockroaches when it finally hit's the fan. When they over threw the monarchy they wanted "Change", they just did not know it was back to the 12th Century!

Doppelganger[/QUOTE]I agree the Iranian people did not have a choice-actually they do. They can overthrow the idiots but that takes courage and balls which they do not yet have. Generally, they are more pacifistic than aggressive from the few I have met.

You have personal knowledge that the Revolutionary Guard are worse than the SS? Can you provide the info that supports that? Were you in Germany during WWII? How do you know this to be true or are you just making it up to support you opinion that the Guard and the Mulahs are monsters?

I read 3 papers and have NEVER seen one article detailing all the Guard do or any comparison to the SS.

Suerte,

Stowe

[QUOTE=Jackson]That's patently inaccurate.

I've done some traveling myself, and the only people I can find that "hate America" are a vocal minority of college students, their professors, and the leftist-leaning media outlets.

The world's growing middle class generally admire Americans, the efficiency and transparency of our governmental systems, our business acumen, and the life style that we've created for ourselves.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Gotta go with Stowe here even though he is a disgusting butt fucker. We are pretty universally despised.

You gotta start watching something besides Fox news brother. I know your married to the "Bush is great" position and I would never publicly expect you to change it, but you oughta look around just a little.

Just an aside on Iran. The majority of the population supports the government's attempts to develop nuclear power and would go bonkers if the US upped the military ante. What they ARE pissed off about is their economy.

And though I certainly don't agree with all of Doppleganger's opinions, the mullahs are a pack of assholes. The comparison in the USA would be if the nutjob christian evangelicals were in power. Oops! They have been for the past eight years!

And, while I'm spouting off a little. Not all, but much of the Middle East mess originates in the ongoing stalemate between Israel and the Palestinians. The inability to make any progress there has led to massive rage throughout the region which as been capitalized on by those with their own power and control agenda (on BOTH sides of the conflict)

If the West was really interested in sorting out alot of the reasons for this mess they would stop allowing the tail to wag the dog (I. E. Get tough with Israel about their stonewalling the peace process) Its a damn shame that this has been allowed to go on for so long. If the peace process had been succesful 10-15 years ago, some of the current problems could have been avoided. But the cat is out of the bag and the horsies have left the barn and it done burnt down. Now you have so many bad apples throughout the region that it will require a monumental effort to make progress (with Pakistan the next to be a big pain in the ass)

My 2 centavos.

AND, why the fuck can't I access Yahoo for the past two days!

Actually Stowe they don't really have much of a chance since they never get the opportunity to "over throw the government" via the political process which is denied to them by the mullahs. Nor do they have much of a chance by open revolt since all the guns are in the hands of the military and the Revolutionary Guard Units (RGU) Ask yourself Stowe, do you have the "guts" to go head to head with a guy with an AK when all you got is a hoe (garden type not female) It gets a lot different when those bumble bees with a firecracker tied to their tail go flying by your ear.

Guess you did not read those papers very closely; there have been several articles by Iranian dissidents cataloguing the RGU's activities, testimony before Congress by both military and civilian experts, besides intelligence briefs some of which are published. I'll see if I can get you a link for the last one.

Not happy with oppressing their own people they like to export their brand of oppression to other countries via training cadres and material to places like Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, ect. Sort of like the old Soviet Union and Cuba did down in Africa. Does any of that ring a bell?

Rave On Guys.

Doppelganger

[QUOTE=Doppelganger]Not happy with oppressing their own people they like to export their brand of oppression to other countries via training cadres and material to places like Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, ect. Sort of like the old Soviet Union and Cuba did down in Africa. Does any of that ring a bell? [/QUOTE]This sounds like the School of the Americas.

You can not access Yahoo due to the all powerful all knowing all seeing Evangelical Christian Right Wing Conspiracy they have done it all! Maniacal laughter!

Naa - just guys with too much time on their hands venting.

Have a good one.

Doppelganger