2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=El Alamo;424368]I think it is about time the private sector told the government thanks but no thanks. Don't call us, when we need help from the government, we will call you.[/QUOTE]When will the businessman make that call:

When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?
When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?
When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?
When the mail doesn't get delivered?
When the store is looted by thieves?
When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?
When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?
When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?
When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?
When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?
When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?
When they can't find workers with adequate education?

[QUOTE=Esten; 424418]When will the businessman make that call:

When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?

When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?

When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?

When the mail doesn't get delivered?

When the store is looted by thieves?

When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?

When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?

When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?

When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?

When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?

When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?

When they can't find workers with adequate education?[/QUOTE]What does this remind me of? Yes! Of course! Cristinaland! Everything you wrote applies to Argie land, Do you live here too?

[QUOTE=Black Shirt;424397]For being nominated as Finance Czar. And can you tell why my credit card rates range from 12-17% and I can't get even 1% for my saving account. Legal loan-sharking? You know, like those legal ticket brokers / agencies as compared to the scalpers outside the stadium. Anyway, the motivation is the same, but one wears a $1500 suit and graduates from Georgetown, and the other wears a football jersey and comes from Compton. Supply & Demand, I really have no problems with that. But people get caught up with all that glamour, yachts, cigars, Cannes, you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]I agree with what you wrote, except I don't understand the last sentence. Just as we try to protect children and the insane, we should try to protect those stupid enough to be enticed by legal loan sharks. I have a couple of friends who were effectively paying 25% or 30% interest on credit cards after late payment penalties. The morality of the consumer credit department at J. P. Morgan Chase is at about the same level as a crack dealer. Even being Finance Czar, I can't solve your problems. You have to do that yourself. If you're paying credit card rates at 12% to 17%, you should either declare bankruptcy, or stop your mongering trips and get a second job until you've paid off your cards.

I have no problem with people or companies who scalp tickets. Do you, and if so why?

Esten.

I know you might not have anything better to do but I don't think you should sit by the phone waiting for the call until you do the following.

1) until you convince Michelle to open her wallet and repay us the tens of millions/hundreds of millions of dollars she spent on extravagant vacations with entourages of thousands.

2) until Obama opens his wallet and repays us the $600 million dollars he spent to build one luxury sedan for his buddy Leonardo Dicaprio. Built, I might add, in finland without employing a single american worker.

3) until Obama opens his wallet and repays us the trillions of dollars he wasted on his political cronies to build now bankrupt solar energy companies.

4) until Obama opens his wallet and repays us the trillions of dollars of stimulus money that did not improve the economy.

5) until you give Obama a pair of scissors and have him cut in two that credit card we gave him

6) and most important, until you have a heart to heart with Obama and explain to Obama that you have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that Obama proved beyond a doubt that the Peter Principal is well and alive. Obama, as predicted by the Peter Principal, was elevated to a position way over his level of competency. The bad news is that Obama needs to go, immediately, and be replaced by someone with an understanding of business and economics.

Until then do yourself a favor and don't waste your time waiting for a call

[QUOTE=Esten; 424418]When will the businessman make that call:

"When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?"

Too bad no one invented private toll roads. Oh wait, they have.

"When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?"

No government = no need for a visa. And there are these inventions called emails, internet, faxes, video teleconferencing that often eliminate the need for a flight. Wasn't when the government deregulated the airlines, that fares came down and more flights became available?

"When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?"

Before big government we had citizens and volunteer firefighters who pitched in and fought the fires.

"When the mail doesn't get delivered? The postal system is doing so well that they are considering privatising it. It is a shame that no one invented orivate delivery companies like UPS, Fedex, etc.

When the store is looted by thieves?"

Yes with big government, we no longer have any robberies. We have changed the term to asset reallocation.

"When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?"

They would most certainly come to see the business owners and their hired guns shoot the gang members or prison inmates.

"When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?"

Wasn't there commerce before the advent of unemployment and disability? How did those people get money? I believe they knew they had to work.

"When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?"

Yes, big government is certainly preventing theft of funds by companies like M F Global and PFG Best.

"When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?"

I didn't realize that food poisoning had been eliminated. Have they closed down all Chinese restaurants?

"When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?"

Why in the old days, the citizens would foolishly rush out and hang the owners of the polluting business. Now with big government citizens, can be confident that the water supply will be cleaned up in a few decades. Much better solution.

"When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?"

Don't you realize that this potentially life saving medication might make you ill? Good thing big government stopped you from taking it.

"When they can't find workers with adequate education?"

Yes, the quality of our average student is so high thanks to big government. I do not understand why private businesses are paying to have workers trained. Don't these businesses understand that big government knows what skills these employers need and is insuring that all of the graduating students are literate and well educated?[/QUOTE]Whatever did mankind do before big government? Oh wait, everthing worked anyway.

Pop Quiz from Esten.

Who said this in 2002?

You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We've already cheered the Olympians, let's also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.

Esten is refusing to tell us the answer to his pop quiz. Just when we think Esten has aligned himself with a sound, constructive person with solid values Esten refuses to tell us who his new role model is.

Anyway, Esten has turned the corner. Obviously Estens new role model has had a real job, has been successful and has not spent a lifetime pandering to those who choose not to work. This eliminates 99% of Estens prior role models. Throw is the fact that the person who penned the above quote is obviously intelligent eliminates 100% of Estens prior role models.

I have personally eliminated possible suspects such as Barney Franks, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Anthony Weiner, Eliot Spitzer and Barak Obama on the grounds they are unitelligent shiftless morons.

Leading candidates for the author of the above quote are Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Clint Eastwood

Esten, please, who is your new role model?

Esten.

I could go on the internet and find out who said the quote you posted as a pop quiz. Of course, that would be cheating. It is a pop quiz afterall and we play by the rules.

My guess is Ronald Reagan. Is that correct?

Anyway, I was very impressed with the sentiments of whoever penned that quote. Obviously someone we should all look up to.

Please don't tell me it was one of your prior role models who fulfill all the qualifications of shiftless morons. Barney Franks, Nancy Pelosi, Harry reid, Eliot Spitzer, Anthony Weiner or Barak Obama.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 424427]I agree with what you wrote, except I don't understand the last sentence. Just as we try to protect children and the insane, we should try to protect those stupid enough to be enticed by legal loan sharks. I have a couple of friends who were effectively paying 25% or 30% interest on credit cards after late payment penalties. The morality of the consumer credit department at J. P. Morgan Chase is at about the same level as a crack dealer. Even being Finance Czar, I can't solve your problems. You have to do that yourself. If you're paying credit card rates at 12% to 17, you should either declare bankruptcy, or stop your mongering trips and get a second job until you've paid off your cards.

I have no problem with people or companies who scalp tickets. Do you, and if so why?[/QUOTE]Buyer beware! Perhaps, creidit cards should have death warning notices like cigarette packages!

Perhaps, I should write about consumerism and self destruction. Why is it that Americans do not save? Why save when you can borrow so easily? And so on. So here we are in 2012 with our feet in cow manure. So is it the culture or is it the poeple, or are they not the same? And the banks just pay the millions in fines quite happily because they are a pittance of what their profit margins are. In the boardroom, there are laugher and champagne as bonuses and share incentives are met.

And so the working ants continue to amass their debts in their desperate belief that they cannot be happy unless they possess x, y, and z. Personal responsibility, yes of course. That is basic, and that comes from where? Kim Kardashian & family?

No, I have no problem with ticket scalpers. I paid for a few Olympic trips doing just that. And I have no problem with anybody's luxurious lifestyle. Just courrpted corporate behavior and their defenders.

By the way, your title as Financial Czar was meant to be complimentary. And your advice has been noted and implemented.

[QUOTE=Black Shirt; 424448]Perhaps, I should write about consumerism and self destruction. Why is it that Americans do not save? Why save when you can borrow so easily? And so on. So here we are in 2012 with our feet in cow manure. So is it the culture or is it the poeple, or are they not the same? And so the working ants continue to amass their debts in their desperate belief that they cannot be happy unless they possess

X, why, and z. Personal responsibility, yes of course. That is basic, and that comes from where? Kim Kardashian & family?[/QUOTE]Being a Libertarian, who believes people should be free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt others, I'm loath to admit this. But a lot of Americans need something like a gun pointed toward their heads to make them save. Something like the Central Provident Fund (CPF) in Singapore, where 35% of an employee's gross wages go into savings to pay for retirement, medical expenses, and housing. I agree completely with your thoughts about consumerism, savings and debt. And the Kardashians.

As expected, not a single intelligent response to my long list of government-provided services. Services that have been demanded by and are provided for the private sector. Services that most Americans value and would object strongly if it were ever proposed to take them away.

Everyone here understands this; some are just too proud to admit it (or too stubborn in their ideology).

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 424445]I could go on the internet and find out who said the quote you posted as a pop quiz. Of course, that would be cheating. It is a pop quiz afterall and we play by the rules.

My guess is Ronald Reagan. Is that correct?[/QUOTE]Nope. Mitt Romney made that Olympics quote in 2002, where he included praise for communities that built venues to hold competitions. In case you missed it, that's a reference by-and-large to governments that funded such venues with taxpayer dollars. Yep, Romney acknowledged the role of governments in helping Olympians succeed.

Reagan supported closing tax loopholes for millionaires. Check the video below. According to various reports, Romney used virtually every trick (loophole) in the book to reduce his taxes. Reagan would likely have been calling for Romney to release more tax returns, to expose the very loopholes that Reagan wanted to end. Romney's no Reagan, he's much worse.

Reagan-No Loopholes For Millionaires

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA[/url]

Esten,

I agree that government supplies many useful platforms to support buisness. Infrastructure, rule of law, and stable currency are prerequisites for a functional free enterprise system. But, these very support mechanisms are in danger of dissolving due to the unsustainable debt this administration is piling up year after year. There will be a breaking point if the current trends continue. When the rest of the world (which supports half of our spending) decides enough is enough, it's game over. The support network will no longer be viable. Nothing about this current administration leads me to believe that they acknowledge this inevitablity. The dismissal of the Simpson-Bowles commission was the confirmation of it's irresponsibility in my mind. Since I KNOW that this administration is not serious about preventing the bankrupcy of the country, I have to be a supporter of an alternative approach.

[QUOTE=Esten; 424418]When will the businessman make that call:

1. When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?

2. When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?

3. When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?

4. When the mail doesn't get delivered?

5. When the store is looted by thieves?

6. When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?

7. When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?

8. When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?

9. When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?

10. When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?

11. When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?

12. When they can't find workers with adequate education?[/QUOTE]With regard to your comment that there has not been "a single intelligent response to my long list of government-provided services", I agree that some of the services on your list are important and are provided efficiently by my state and local governments. I do not believe we are getting value from the federal government FOR THE 24% OF GDP that it consumes. Almost one out of every 4 dollars spent in America is spent by the federal government. Specifically,

1. This infrastructure is provided by state and local government, not federal government.

2. The USA federal government makes it difficult for foreign businessmen, investors, students and tourists to get visas. We're losing out to other countries because of this.

3. Provided by local government, ditto to "1" above.

4. The USPS is one of the most inefficient businesses on the planet.

5. Ditto "1", state and local government function

6. Ditto "1", state and local government function

7. Paying people not to work decreases productivity. The USA social security system is a Ponzi scheme. Madoff does the same thing in the private sector and he goes to jail.

8. A legitimate service provided by Federal government that should be continued. But how much of the federal government does this represent? And how good is it at doing this job? Fannie and Freddie screw investors and taxpayers, aided big time by the federal government. Madoff goes unchecked for over 10 years after his scheme is brought to the attention of the SEC. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars and suffer through a recession because regulators and politicians were asleep at the wheel, allowing financial institutions and home buyers to engage in monkey business during the last couple of decades.

9. Ditto "1", state and local government function

10. Ditto "1", state and local government function

11. I agree.

12. Ditto "1", state and local government function

Good Tiny, an intelligent response. Yes several things are provided by local and state governments, but the Republican attack on government is often an attack on all forms of government. I'd agree their main issues are with the federal government though. Almost half of the 24% GDP figure are SS & Medicare, which are very popular among Americans, and which Americans PAY INTO. Really, tell us what specifically you'd cut, and how much it would save.

The government has been significantly defunded, and we have a bigger revenue problem than a spending problem.

TT mentioned an alternative approach. But Republicans seem to be the ones running away from the debt issue lately. They want to extend all tax cuts, and reverse the sequester Defense cuts. They are appealing to fear and pride for the latter. Both measures will delay addressing our debt. What's their proposal for addressing the debt? Ryan's unpopular Medicare voucher program?

Republicans are running out of rope in their mission to protect the wealthy. They might have to choose between the wealthy and Defense. A few smart Republicans have started backing off from the "no compromise" position. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of them twist. This promises to be every bit as entertaining as the election itself.

Esten.

Thanks for the answer to the pop quiz.

I always suspected you were a closet Romney supporter. Thanks for coming out.

Credit Cards.

Esten I'm sure you are one of those who believe pencils misspell words not the people using them to put up such an argument regarding credit card rates. People sign a contract with the credit card company that clearly outlines the charges they will incur for carrying a balance, if they are late, ect. If the form is too complicated or long for them to bother to read then they are too stupid to even have a credit card. The credit card companies don't hold a gun to anyone's head and force them to charge. If you can't control your spending impulses then you should not have a line of credit, it's just that simple.

It boils down to that one little trait liberals hate, personal responsibility. If you get in trouble with a credit card it's your fault and no one else's. Don't blame the banks.

Debt.

Esten if you took all the earnings from everyone making over $200K per year it would not even pay off Obama's deficit for this year much less pay down the national debt. Your position is just plain raw class warfare. Run the numbers my friend, to plagiarize Bill Clinton somewhat:

IT'S THE SPENDING STUPID!