American Politics during the Bush Presidency

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye]Sorry for the minor errors, glad you pointed them out. I must admit that I rushed a bit and crossed up info from two sources on the religious composition. I do have some responsibilities in addition to checking out the finer things in Bs As, that eat into my posting time.

So based on my math being off 2% and grammatical mistake (EB White vs. Popular usage - in this forum of all things) you dismiss all the actual points out of hand (like the fact that you buddy Banknote was only off by a factor of 1075% in his piece)

Like I originally said, I am not interested in converting anyone to my POV, just trying to shed a little light on some serious falsehoods.[/QUOTE]I don't know Banknote from a plate of piss and I don't know what he was off by 1075% on. I [b]don't care[/b] if the Iraqi people were afraid of Sadaam or not. However, I don't think your tendency to invent facts is really going to be effective in shedding any light on anything. And if you want to swallow all the CIA's bullshit unquestioningly, that's fine too.

Oh, and by the way, what's your source for this: "For example, in Anfal alone, he was responsible for killing 182,000 people." I know, you "just made it up as an illustration of the absurd."

CIA = Covert International Assassins!

[QUOTE=Dickhead]CIA = Covert International Assassins![/QUOTE]I'm glad that we have [u]somebody[/u] to do what needs to be done.

[QUOTE=Bacchus9]Lassie, get help!

Really, if you see Alice in Wonderland down there give our regards.

You can ignore the facts and reality as you please but I'm not going down that rabbit hole with you. There's no rational answer to your question, sorry.[/QUOTE]A typical liberal response: To avoid the embarrassment of answering the question, you instead suggest that I'm living in a LSD fantasy and that a dog should be dispatched to get me some help.

You can't answer the question because...

1. If you say "Yes, the US Government [u]did[/u] anticipate that invading Iraq would attract Al Qaeda to Iraq" then your "Bush is the world's stupidest President" theory is deflated, and...

2. If you say "no, the US government [u]did[/u] [u]not[/u] anticipate that invading Iraq would attract Al Qaeda to Iraq" then you would look ridiculous by inferring that thousands of military and intelligence professionals could not predict the obvious.

And that's my point: I'm stating that it was obvious to everyone at the time that by our presence in Iraq Al Qaeda would be motivated to deploy in Iraq and attack our military.

[QUOTE=Jackson]You avoided my question: Do you believe that prior to the Iraq liberation that no one in the military or the government's intelligence agencies had any inkling of an idea that our presence in Iraq would attract Al Qaeda?

This is my core point, although you seem to want to expand it beyond my original context in order to facilitate your denigration of my theory, which is:

1. That Bush knew in advance that an additional benefit to liberating 36 million Iraqis would be that Al Qaeda would be motivated to deploy in Iraq and attack our military.[/QUOTE]

I care this much.

[QUOTE=BadMan]I care this much.[/QUOTE]Bad we have had disagreements in the past but this is the best.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]Ha ha! I was smiling after reading your report. I was really entertained at your anger vented out at me. [/QUOTE]Anger? Venting? Just giving you my opinion and a few facts. I think your point of view and orientation make you perceive things that aren't really there.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]I am lucky I am not standing in front of you, you really seem to dislike me for what I wrote! [/QUOTE]You would be lucky to be standing here with me; I am a very agreeable person. You have nothing to fear from me. In fact, I am in town, let's have a drink. I'll buy the first round. I clearly stated that I respect your right to say what you want. I don't know you, how could I dislike you, yet. Let's get a drink and I can decide then whether or not I like you.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]However, I do not appreciate your blind faith in policies of USA. [/QUOTE]How do you know anything about my faith (blind or otherwise) or my sentiments regarding all US policies? I made a statement about pre and post war Iraq.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]It seems that US is some kind of noble country looking after the entire world or the entire world is living on US economy & resources.[/QUOTE]It is, many of them are. The world is always changing. When the shit hits the rotary oscillator, friends come out of the wood work and the US usually overlooks the slights that it has endured from those new found friends.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]However, I do have strong reasons to believe that Saddam was a emperor of his country & running well. [/QUOTE]You are entitled to think what you want. Please reread my first response, I think you missed something.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]Many people in the world shed tears when he was displaced by on pretext that he is producing chemical weapons (to date none have been found) He was tortured, his whole family killed by USA,[/QUOTE]I cried when Old Yeller died. Chemical weapons were one of many valid reasons. Chemical weapons were found in Iraq, although not in the quantities expected. That doesn't change the soundness of the decision.

What proof do you have that he was tortured?

Wrong, with the exceptions of Uday and Qusay, the rest of his family left Iraq are in exile in various other nations. Saddam in fact is credited with killing at least as many of his family (Hussein Kamel al-Majidas, Saddam Kamel al-Majid, and Adnan Khairallah Tulfah) as is the coalition forces (Saddam, Uday and Qusay)

[QUOTE=Bank Note]this is not the way to treat an Emperor of a country.[/QUOTE]I quite agree. I believe he was treated too well.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]Don't fool your self and your friends here by saying that no wealth is being looted from Iraq. In fact, big size Very large crude oil carriers (VLCCs) are regularly going to oil berths in Iraq and transporting oil to US. [/QUOTE]How else would you propose the transport the crude, row boats? I imagine the crude is destined for refineries, regardless of which country they happen to be in. The oil is part of the global supply (not a special "US Secret Supply" which would be hard to hide and would definitely bring the price at the pump) Don't kid yourself; the Iraqi government is paid for every drop of oil.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]Damn, your country is becoming richer thanks to Iraq war. [/QUOTE]On the contrary the US has spent billions on the war. Please provide me with some data on actual repayment let alone profit (profit is when you make more money than you spend in delivering a good or service) Why is the American deficit rising (in addition to drunken sailor spending in Washington and a few financial bailouts here and there)

[QUOTE=Bank Note]As far as freedom of movement in the world, thanks to US & allied forces. What a laugh! World has become a horrible place to travel! [/QUOTE]You're right, making the world "more interesting to travel" in your eyes is much more important that the freedom gained through WWI, WWII, the cold war and the Iraq War. My bad.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]You probably have a US passport & white skin so you don't know what anguish millions of people are going through while traveling these days with their humble passports and dark skin. [/QUOTE]Again, you know nothing about me, what I have seen and where I have been. Why should the color of my skin matter? The color of your skin does not matter to me.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]But do you or many of the Americans here ever shed a tear for thousands who die every fucking day in Lebanon, Israel, Pakistan, India, Iraq, Afghanistan on name of terrorism? [/QUOTE]Like I said, the loss of each innocent human life is a tragedy. I believe that to be true no matter where that loss of life occurs, what religion or color the victim is. How are they dying in the name of terrorism? I have many close friends from Lebanon, Egypt and the UAE, but I think of them as I do all my friends, without putting labels (race, religion, nationality) on them as it seems you are want to do.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]When a white man dies because of war, the world should come to a stop but dark skin man's life has no apparent value! How many times the world stops when bombs explode in Pakistan / Lebanon & innocent women & children die. [/QUOTE]Says who? See previous two answers. I would like to point out that I think it would be equally bad for all of us if the world actually stopped.

[QUOTE=Bank Note]Now, don't send me another nasty message because this message is not directed at you, Wild wallyeye. However, its just to make you & others aware that don't live in this notion that US is doing Iraq a favor by occupying it or by attacking it in first place or that British did a favor by ruling India for 100 years or that because of US, the rest of the world is surviving and eating two square meals![/QUOTE]

My notes aren't nasty unless you think it is nasty to be confronted with the truth. But your message is directed at me and implies that I am a racist. Again, we have differing opinions on Iraq.

I don't recall if I supported the Crown way back then, but I doubt it; my family has been on the receiving end of British rule, on two different continents. However, I hardly blame all Brits for that.

[QUOTE=Dickhead]However, I don't think your tendency to invent facts is really going to be effective in shedding any light on anything. Oh, and by the way, what's your source for this: "For example, in Anfal alone, he was responsible for killing 182,000 people." I know, you "just made it up as an illustration of the absurd."[/QUOTE]Exactly, I made it up before I presented it into the official record (at the Supreme Criminal Court, hearing the case of the anti-Kurdish Anfal Campaign, in Anfal) during Chemical-Ali's trial.

Sorry, should have sited that.

Jackson-

Your assertions are ridiculous and could only come from someone who has been living under a rock for the past 66 months. It is completely obvious and clear to ANYONE who has any understanding of the events that took place leading up to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 and the years of chaos that followed that the Bush Administration had ABSOLUTELY NOT ANTICIPATED that a devastating insurgency would take hold. Do you really think George W. Shrub would have gone on that aircraft carrier in May 2003 and put on that dog and pony show with the slogan "mission accomplished" if he was expecting a never ending insurgency that would kill more than 10x as many US soldiers as the actual regular war that preceded it? Shrub's appointee to run the post war reconstruction and administration of Iraq, W. Paul Bremer completely failed at his job and made several horrible errors (mainly disbanding the Iraqi Army, and banning all Baathist from any security position, when they were the only ones with any experience in security) that directly caused the security vacuum that allowed the insurgency to flourish and a slew of foreigners to enter Iraq and begin the so-called "Al-Qaeda in Iraq".

Your argument is just a neo-conservative cop-out to try to spin the complete failure that is this Iraq expedition in a positive light. None of the stated desired consequences of the Neo-Cons have occured in Iraq; Saddam was not replaced with a western style democratic regime; Iraq has not and will never become a beacon of the west in the Middle East; in fact, it has become, and will become, more fundamentalist islamic as a result of the Iranian theocracy pulling the strings behind the shiite majority. The Neo-Cons did get two of their unstated desired consequences: jacked up oil prices and hundreds of billions of dollars in contracts for their cronies who manufacture war materials.

The US already had a foreign state to fight all the Al Qaeda "rabid dogs" as you like to call them; it's called Afghanistan. The US correctly attacked and invaded Afghanistan post 9/11 and then incorrectly shifted focus to a fruitless war in Iraq. Now Afghanistan is a mess again with Opium trafficking and Al Qaeda (via Taliban) is entrenched again there. Afghanistan should have been pacified and cleaned up 6 years ago, but as a result of the Iraq misadventure it was not.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Bremer, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld should all be tried for war crimes.

Rock,

Okay, I'll mark that down as one "No" vote.

It's unfortunate that you and others here seem to have absolutely no confidence in the thousands of educated, trained and experienced military personnel, CIA intelligence agents and NSA analysts, all of whom are dedicated to collecting and analysing volumes of data to which neither you or I am privy, and would instead like to presume that your own judgement is vastly superior.

Thanks,

Jackson

BTW, what is this "Failure" in Iraq you all continue to rant about. Talk about "living under a rock". In case you haven't heard, we're winning!

[QUOTE=Jackson] In case you haven't heard, we're winning![/QUOTE]Yeah, we kept saying that in Vietnam, too.

Jackson and Wild W.

I commend you for attempting to calm the uncontrolled LIBERALS in the crowd but your comments are falling on deaf ears. In the past several years I cannot remember such crazy points of view being expressed, on any thread that didn't revolve around Exon. I know you feel left out Ex. It can't always be about you. LOL. Keep holding up the republican perspective brothers. If not for you two, Iraq pre-liberation, would be painted by these clowns as some sort of luxury retirement community run by a benelovent dictator whose primary concern was the well-being of his people. Lets not forget that for two years prior to the Iraq invasion Sadam refused to allow any NATO inspection teams into the country and pretty much snubbed his nose at the international community in spite of previously agreeing to allow inspection teams into the country as agreed after Bush part 1 military action.

The fact that the outcome of Bush part 2 (Iraq liberation is an exellent description) is going quite well, is currently illustrated by the fact that the "Iraq War" performance year-to-date is virtually off the radar in our current presidential election. Funny how wild-ass liberals always prefer to be oblivious to the facts when they don't fit their UNENDING LIBERAL AGENDA!

Keep the faith fellas and Ex "you are and will always be a fine fisherman". Happy Mongering All. Toymann

Hey Bank Note.

ENOUGH SAID.

IALOTFLMAO. I Am Lying On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off.

You just cannot be taken seroiusly characterizing Sadam as an Emperor.

Happy Mongering. Toymann.

PS. Love your last post BAD. LOL.

Ok guys,

I've had quite enough.

Time to break it up.

[QUOTE=BadMan]Ok guys,

I've had quite enough.

Time to break it up[/QUOTE]Ok I posted pics of this girl before but here is more.

More boobs less W Bush.

Cheers!