American Politics during the Obama Presidency

The group should get federal funding.

They are community organizers.

Check their website for more information.

Direct your font elsewhere. I have no time for your delusional rhetorical bs.

Regards,

BM.

[QUOTE=BadMan]Damn Hugo Jackson Chavez is on a deleting spree.

This is getting pretty bad. You're not even deleting commentary now just facts and figures.

Another good article, which will probably get deleted because it's not right wing propaganda. Read it very quickly guys before Jackson Pinochet wakes up.

Regards,

BM.[/QUOTE]Hey man, point out which other guys in this thread have not posted ANYTHING except political commentary.

Jackson made a statement a few days ago that Ricardo was free to post once he had made a contribution to the theme of this board, which should be something to do with mongering or could even have something to do with commenting on life in Argentina. As stated, he enforces that rule very strongly on his other forums. AP has been a little more loose, it seems to me, although I'm not sure why, but that will surely change one day when this thread gets too far out of control.

Bad Man, your comments, ignoring what Jackson said and continuing to harp on him like he is some nut case about to overthrow the crispy-clean American people for a dictator is pretty much how propagandist on BOTH SIDES act.

Now, I went through and looked at Ricardo's posts and he ONLY posts about politics, with the exception of one or two in the jokes section and stock market section (which is related) Why doesn't he just post a few facts or tidbits about Argentina and get on with the show?

I have to wonder why Ricardo has not posted a single piece of information about living in Argentina, or mongering, or what have you (that I saw) I could be wrong, but I would have sworn that I saw him mention at some point that he lived here.

But if not, are there no other blogs in which he can post, that are directly related to politics, where people are having these discussions? It seems a little odd to me that he is concentrating so much time trying to have "reasonable discussions" with those he considers diametrically opposed to his point of view, and those of a minority (it would seem) on this board.

Jackson's not running a political blog, he's running a mongering website that happens to have a thread on it which is getting out of control, it seems to me. When you have a thread that produces so much ire, it tends to take away from the rest of the theme of the board. That can actually be dangerous for business. It's why I quit posting here. It's ridiculous to keep trying to "convince" people of the other's point of view, and that's all Ricardo is doing on this forum.

The reason I finally wrote this, though, is because it cracks me up that you, Bad Man, of all people, would be giving Jackson a hard time for trying to restore some order on his forum with an iron fist. You, with whom I have had many conversations in person, about the fact that you are convinced to your core that totalitarianism is the only form of government that makes any sense! I assume that's why Sidney keeps making his comments about Chavez and other socialist / communist leaders in relation to you?

[QUOTE=El Queso]Jackson's not running a political blog, he's running a mongering website that happens to have a thread on it which is getting out of control, it seems to me. When you have a thread that produces so much ire, it tends to take away from the rest of the theme of the board.[/QUOTE]I occasionally look at the posts here. Like Queso I looked back at the political posts and compared them to the other topics. Of interest is the 9200 plus number of postings on the American political thread are about double those on any other thread. Given that fact one could argue that Jackson is actually running a political blog with other features.

Still, Jackson deserves a great deal of credit for creating and maintaining a very useful tool for people who live, work and play in Buenos Aires. Lots of non-political information is useful, some less so, but it still is a pretty good site as these things go.

As for Ricardo, his sin seems to have been having brains as well as balls and doing a pretty good job countering the bluster and bullshit offered in the juvenile attacks on Obama. He sure pissed some people off and more power to him I say!

Ricardo,

I will gladly write a few chica posts under your name.

The trade-off is that you will have to tone down the 'I'm from the government, I'm here to help' rhetoric.

[QUOTE=Miami Bob]My favorite story comes from a brain surgeon who gets on the or speaker phone with a health carrier rep:

Hi this is dr X calling from why about your patient Z. You denied authorization for the stent I requestested. I am in the patients brain and your decision will likely result in mr z's death. I need your full name or employee # for my operative report. There maybe a homicide investigation and I want to have the facts straight. Would you clearly state the basis for the denial of the stent.

The speaker is the head of neurosurgical icu at a major teaching hospital. He was providing tactics to doctors for obtaining authorizations from health carriers. This has nothing to do with hating attorneys. Don't let the general feeling of hate and anger which permeates this thread, let you take your eye off the ball here. Do You really want to intentionally have the health insurance industry making life and death decisions with no controls nor way to use the courts to protect the rights of average people.

Stan look up the rules. You are an intelligent guy. I this your preference--what you want for your family? How about you Toyman?[/QUOTE]Bob, that's the problem with unsupported anecdotes -- they're unsupported. Sorry, Bob, but any surgeon that would do that while on the operating table would and should be disbarred. And, I don't believe a word of it is true, or at least that it's very much like the "war stories" that lawyers tell: They grow larger by the cocktail, and they always paint the telling lawyer in a favorable light. Kind of like the "fish stories" we've all heard. If unsupported anecdotes like these are the basis for flushing billions down the drain in the name of government mandated health care, then I'll take the current system. The same is true for the three anecdotes Obama cited in his speech on health care about a month back: On further scrutiny, they didn't hold up.

And, I appreciate the suggestion that I'm an intelligent guy, but apparently not so much. I don't know what "rules" you're talking about. If it's the idea that there are no "controls," the truth is there are many, many controls -- insurance regulators, lawyers, statutes, judges, verdicts and the free market.

Would the government do a better job at "controlling" things? You and I will never agree on this. One of the core principles of the founding fathers was a hearty distrust of government. I do not like citing to the founding fathers because this is so often abused. But, it is almost beyond debate that our Constitution was framed to give the federal government [b]limited[/b] powers. At base, this is why there is such sharp disagreement over whether to let the government stick it's nose [further] into health care. Those in favor say the system is broken and something must be done. Those against say the system may not be perfect, but I definitely don't trust the government to fix it. The answer will come in two parts: Legislators will make a decision and then voters will have their say. These two parts will influence each other. Which side will prevail? Heck if I know. I just know what I'd prefer.

Back to Michael Moore for a second, the Wall Street Journal had a small piece on him today. Here's a brief review of his latest missive: "The movie is largely a paean to plaintiffs lawyers and unions, who alas depend on evil capitalism for their incomes." [url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703298004574458943044664778.html[/url]

Hmmmm. It's almost like the author is reading the board. I made nearly the same point about Sicko just yesterday. All right you guys, fess up. Which one of you is writing for WSJ? Perhaps they'll be sampling this thread for their Letters to the Editor section next.

I saw Ricardo took a few thinly-veiled jabs at me yesterday and now the posts are gone. I wish they were still there. I actually dug up the Vanity Fair article he mentioned. It wasn't the current issue, and the stats were typically unsupported (e. G. Salaries of "major health care company CEOs," without an indication of what that means for comparison) But, that's what one would expect from Vanity Fair.

True, he's a gadfly, but sometimes everybody needs that. I understand that this is a monger board and that there must be some rules of decorum. And, I can only imagine that the task of editing things wouldn't be particularly pleasant. Perhaps we could just have an entirely separate thread where we could go to debate him? He's a bit over-the-top at times, but then, so am I.

I think that you are missing the point that I am making because of a re-conceived party-line. You are too bright to be caught up in a party line and you don't seem to be motivated by hate nor irrational fear.

The insurance industry is regulated in return then they are exempt from many anti-trust rules. I am talking about the average person's rights to receive medical care based upon need and reasonable medical necessity. What are you, you parents or other people that you care about--including your sugar baby-- to do when they have such care blocked by a high school grad with no medical training beyond medical terminology reading off of a computerized data based and possib lely not having any idea what the doictor is doing.

I attend a number of courses designed for doctors because of part of what I do to make a living. The story is a true story told by a senior medical school professor. Ask toymann about what happens on the operating room speaker phone when there is a surprise in the middle of a surgery.[I have had such speaker phone conversations to arrange scuba diving and fishing trips during a surgery] I have represented the institution where that professor works and have know him for over 20 years. I am not a plaintiff's malpractice atty and have said nothing in any of my recent posts about malpractice.

I suggest that you read the article that ricardo linked. Dialog between intelligent people with different points of view does not have to be entirely negative nor turn into name calling nor retreat into a party line without indepenent dialog. You don't operate this way generally. Many people who regularly post in this particular part of ap behave in a way that they would rarely, if ever, act in person. Jackson explains that is part of what happens with on line personas. He knows more about websites and knows more members than anyone else.

Thinking outside the box is how creative solutions evolve. Ricardo as a gad fly? Do any of the people on this particular forum really believe that there is only one legitimate point of view and everyone else a gadfly or stupid? This runs counter to everything that the usa is suposed to stand for and the brilliant system that our founding father created. Yes, our nation is split down the middle. It might not survive if people don't have dialog and take control of our system away from large scale lobbyists----and return to something which more closely resembles the vision of our founding fathers. I am paraphrasing john mccain who I consider a very brave and courageous man when not running for the presidency recently. Ricardo quoted ike-- a true republican and a freind of W's grandfather. Rather than calling him a gadfly --think out what he is saying before rejecting it. Large scale lobbying and the associated public relations is warping our nation.

I get food for thought from some of the guys who post here--I am particularly thinking of el alamo--I have been forced to re-think about what government fucks up based on his posts keeping me intellectually honest.

Jackson and I disaggree on just about everything about politics, but have a real over laps in values. His friendship also helps keeps me honest and does not allow me to take the facile approach of just going along with the middle range democrats without questioning all of the implications of what they say and do. This forum can and should be valuable to each of us who have so many differences except we enjoy playing together.

You may react that I am a nice guy, but a gullible idiot. I assure you that I am no idiot and both a businessman who has periodically made money doing business in argentina and makes his living involved with organized aggression. I also appreciate that I have enough conflict during my average workday, that I would rather avoid aggression and unnecessary conflict with people who I play and enjoy other aspects of life.

Does everyone who posts here have to be a hard right republican or libertarian or are other points of view also permitted?

Mongers-

A big "FUCK YOU" to all the Rush Limbaugh / Jerry Fallwell / Burn and piss on the Constitution types who pollute this board with their Right Wing fascist inbred gunshow jesusfreak rhetoric. Other sitting US Presidents to win the award were Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson.

Sorte,

Rock Harders, aka Nostradamus JR

Rock Harders,

Could you please ask Obama to make a peace plan with Cuba. I want to visit.

[QUOTE=Rock Harders]Mongers-

A big "FUCK YOU" to all the Rush Limbaugh / Jerry Fallwell / Burn and piss on the Constitution types who pollute this board with their Right Wing fascist inbred gunshow jesusfreak rhetoric. Other sitting US Presidents to win the award were Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson.

Sorte,

Rock Harders, aka Nostradamus JR[/QUOTE]This has got me scratching my head. Obama has been in office a little over 8 months and he's awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. According to Rock Harders, so were Teddy Roosevelt, one of the biggest warmongers in U. S. History, and Woodrow Wilson, who got us into a stupid war.

The award was premature and a triumph of politics over merit.

"I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one"
Theodore Roosevelt, Nobel Peace Prize Recipient

I guess the Nobel Prize takes the sting out of the Olympics loss!