American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Sidney]Herta Miller wins Literature Nobel. How priescient! She writes about Ceausescu and Communism.[/QUOTE]A quick Google search would have clarified this.

A German paper reports:

Müller was fired from her first job because she refused to work for Ceau şecu's secret police.

She refused to publish her first book because of attempts by the authorities to censor it.

She was refused permission to leave Rumania in 1985, then allowed to leave in 1987 after her searing criticism of Ceausescu's regime prompted many death threats from the secret police.

[QUOTE=Miami Bob]Thinking outside the box is how creative solutions evolve. Ricardo as a gad fly? Do any of the people on this particular forum really believe that there is only one legitimate point of view and everyone else a gadfly or stupid? [/QUOTE]Bob, I think you have unintentionally misconstrued what "gadfly" means. It's certainly no insult and, if Ricardo understands its origination, he should consider it high praise.

It derives from Plato's Apology, and it's particularly apt here. You can read The Apology here: [url]http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html[/url]

In summary, Aristotle was accused of "corrupting the youth of Athens." This wasn't "corruption" in the sense that we commonly joke about the Greeks and young boys today. The charge was that he was teaching Athens' youth ideas that the government found dangerous. In Athens at the time, when someone was convicted of something, the State was allowed to propose a punishment and the accused was allowed to propose a punishment. Generally, this meant that the State would propose a harsh punishment, and the accused would propose some milder punishment. Then, the judges were to choose between the two.

In Socrates' case, the State proposed death. Socrates proposed that the State provide him with "dinner at the Prytaneum" (essentially, the public eating hall) for the rest of his life. In proposing this counter-punishment, his point was that he was doing the State a great service by educating its youth on alternative viewpoints, so he should be fed at the State's expense as his "punishment." By proposing this, he essentially ensured that the judges would choose death.

Later, Socrates is in prison and his supporters urge him to escape and go into exile. The State had left the jail cell doors unlocked, because they would rather see him go into exile than have to put him to death and deal with all the negative reaction. Socrates refuses and describes himself as a "gadfly," meaning someone who perpetually bothers the State with his so-called dangerous ideas. In modern philosophy, this is highly encouraged -- you can't have a one-sided debate. [b]That's[/b] what [I]gadfly[/i] means in this context, and I think it's particularly apt here, if Ricardo has been banished.

It's an all-time classic, if you like philosophy, and I won't spoil the ending in case you're inclined to read it. Sorry if you thought it was meant as an insult. It was actually intended as precisely the opposite.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled postings.

[QUOTE=Rock Harders]Mongers-

A big "FUCK YOU" to all the Rush Limbaugh / Jerry Fallwell / Burn and piss on the Constitution types who pollute this board with their Right Wing fascist inbred gunshow jesusfreak rhetoric. Other sitting US Presidents to win the award were Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson.

Sorte,

Rock Harders, aka Nostradamus JR[/QUOTE]Rock,

I know that this is an unimportant consideration for Obama worshipers, but please tell me [u]EXACTLY[/u] what did the Messiah do to earn a Nobel Peace Prize?

For example, Jimmy Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize because he actually negotiated a lasting peace settlement between Israel and Egypt.

So what did Obama [u]ACTUALLY[/u] do, besides kiss the correct European asses in all of his apology tours through the Continent?

Is there a Nobel Peace Prize for being a good political election campaigner?

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Jackson]Rock,

I know that this is an unimportant consideration for Obama worshipers, but please tell me [u]EXACTLY[/u] what did the Messiah do to earn a Nobel Peace Prize?

For example, Jimmy Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize because he actually negotiated a lasting peace settlement between Israel and Egypt.

So what did Obama [u]ACTUALLY[/u] do, besides kiss the correct European asses in all of his apology tours through the Continent?

Is there a Nobel Peace Prize for being a good political election campaigner?

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]I'm happy the guy won. Personally, I think he's done some great things internationally, most recently with Russia and Iran.

That said, this award really cheapens the Nobel Peace Prize a bit. The real question is not what Obama has done. It is: What did Obama do in his first 11 days in office, and also before he became President, to merit nomination?

Candidates had to be nominated by February 1, 2009. This from the Nobel website: "The nomination deadline is eight months before the announcement, with a strictly enforced deadline of Feb. 1."

So, if the committee is examining a "body" of work up to this deadline (and, I would submit, it would be unfair to consider things that happen after the deadline) then I think there's little basis for this award. Or, it's clear that they looked at the eight months after he took office, on January 20.

Again, I like a lot of what Obama has been doing internationally. If he had been nominated and won [I]next[/i] year, it would make more sense. But, I don't think he did anything particularly noteworthy of a Nobel Peace Prize before he took office, and I can't fathom how his first 11 days in office -- when he did nothing internationally because he was dealing with the domestic financial malaise -- qualifies him for the award. So, that's why I say that bestowing this award on Obama, now, cheapens the award. It makes it appear to smack of politics, which the Nobel committee disavows. It's not that Obama is undeserving. It's just that he didn't deserve this one. Or, if he did deserve it based on only 11 days in office, then there really was a paucity of worthy candidates.

Jackson,

Don't you get it? The whole thing is a joke. We are a lot closer to 'War is Peace', 'Freedom is Slavery' and 'Ignorance is Strength' than I ever thought we would be.

The world is at the mercy of governments, international bodies and delusional megalomaniacs who make Geroge Orwell's 1984 look sane.

President Obama is not the culprit here. Obama is merely riding the surf of insanity.

P.S. I hope giving Obama the Nobel Peace Price will prove to be light years better than giving Jimmy 'shit for brains' Carter that award. Personally, I think Carter should have won the Nobel Prize for 'village idiot' every year for the last 35 years

When I saw this on the news this morning, still half asleep, I thought it was a spoof report. But, like Stan says, he's done some good work with Russia and Iran. The missile plans in eastern europe were incredibly provocative, and the arms control agreement with Russia could produce results. Plus the US-Russian-French offer to Iran to process its uranium is a creative attempt to break the nuclear impasse with Tehran.

I'd say its too early for the award, but as I read somewhere today.

"This Nobel peace prize is a down-payment on work yet to be done. It is an act of faith, based on the fact that Obama is making the right noises and seems to know what he is doing; and on the fact that, compared to his predecessor, he already looks like a master-craftsman".

And as for Obama making "apology tours", it wasn't perceived like that in europe. Building bridges with allies after 8 years of burning them is probably a good diplomatic move.

A cursory review of their post-WW2 history shows Norwegians have a "thing" about peace. Their brutal occupation by the Nazis had a profound effect on their collective national psyche, which led to both a national commitment to promote international peace and to maintaining military forces large enough to defend the country, which are under firm civilian control.

By awarding Obama this year's prize the Committee was following past precedent. The Prize has frequently been awarded with an eye to nudging world events toward peace, not just for finalized deeds.

For example, in 1996, the prize was shared by two Indonesians, pushing for East Timorese independence from Indonesia. That award helped lead to Indonesia's pullout in 1999. The 1994 prize to Rabin, Peres, and Arafat was awarded before they completed the Oslo Accords that held a promise of peace, but eventually broke down.

The Prize Committee is a bipartisan group of Norwegian political leaders - liberal and conservative.

The members include Thorbjørn Jagland, former Prime Minister, Minister for Foreign Affairs and President of the parliament; Kaci Kullmann, former Chairman of the Conservative Party; Sissel Marie Rønbeck, former Cabinet Minister; Inger-Marie Ytterhorn, senior adviser to the Progress Party; and Ågot Valle, former President of the Parliament.

Announcing the award, Jagland said he thinks the Nobel prize can spur peace, rather than simply reward its achievement. He noted the prize will put pressure on Obama to deliver on his promises.

He stated: "we are awarding the prize for what he has done in the previous year" - mentioning Obama's reaching out to the Muslim world, restarting the Mideast peace negotiations, and working through international institutions to promote peace and nuclear disarmament.

Any smart businessman understands good will is a major asset for any organization. Good will towards the U. S. Will be increased by this award, which reinforces the results of the recent global survey that showed the U. S. Voters, by electing Obama, have remade America's international image and now it is the most admired nation in the world. The improved good will can bring tangible results over time.

Stan is right. This is a good thing in a time when there few good things to celebrate.

"This Nobel peace prize is a down-payment on work yet to be done. It is an act of faith, based on the fact that Obama is making the right noises and seems to know what he is doing; and on the fact that, compared to his predecessor, he already looks like a master-craftsman".

What a great concept. I'm going to my bank today to finance that 500 foot yacht I've had my eye on.

As a down payment I think the fact that I have been thinking of getting a job should be enough.

[QUOTE=El Alamo]"This Nobel peace prize is a down-payment on work yet to be done. It is an act of faith, based on the fact that Obama is making the right noises and seems to know what he is doing; and on the fact that,.

What a great concept. I'm going to my bank today to finance that 500 foot yacht I've had my eye on.

As a down payment I think the fact that I have been thinking of getting a job should be enough.[/QUOTE]True, that first part does sound a bit lame. But "compared to his predecessor, he already looks like a master-craftsman" is so true. You can't imagine, cannot conceive, how the rest of the world wanted a change. Maybe you don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks, we can go suck on it, but we do exist, and if you want to make diplomatic progress (maybe you don't?) Obama did more in a week than your guy did in 8 years.

Oh, now I get it.

We are in a popularity contest. It is important that the rest of the world love us.

No problem, we can win that contest.

First, open our borders. Let anyone enter our country - immediate citizenship, free medical care and welfare checks are a given.

Second, put 'cap and trade' restrictions on our industries without requiring other industrial powers to do the same.

Eliminate all import duties on products entering the United States while paying the ridiculous import duties other countries put on our products.

Increase foreign aid until the citizens of Somalia are the recipients of more federal money per capita than our citizens.

Refuse to conduct any unilateral military activities until we have been given permission by Castro, Chavez and Osama Ben Ladin.

I feel so much better now that the rest of the world is going to love us.

El Alamo,

Paranoia "baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others".

Having better diplomatic relations has little or nothing to do with a popularity contest. Its actually in your long term interests, economically and militarily to have better relations with the rest of the world. And please don't be under the delusion that everyone outside the USA wants to live there. We don't!

SteveC.

It was supposed to be funny.

I live in Paraguay. I couldn't care less about any of this stuff.

Sorry, I didn't get the joke. Just sounded like plenty of the right wing / Fux News style views we get on here. I've had a stressful week. Maybe I need a trip out of town this long weekend.

[QUOTE=SteveC]Sorry, I didn't get the joke. Just sounded like plenty of the right wing / Fux News style views we get on here. I've had a stressful week. Maybe I need a trip out of town this long weekend.[/QUOTE]SteveC, I think you understood the true intent of Alamo's post. Sarcasm and hyperbole are the norm around these parts.

Despite what you read on this thread our foreign image is important and has more to do with rhetoric than actual policy or action. In that, I think Obama has done a lot as you said before.

Alamo, for someone who doesn't care, you sure seem to care a lot.:-)

I don't give a shit either, I live in Argentina and have health care here. But in reality I do care because I might actually have to return someday. But hopefully not.

[QUOTE=Schmoj]SteveC, I think you understood the true intent of Alamo's post. Sarcasm and hyperbole are the norm around these parts.[/QUOTE]You're right. "Sorry. I didn't get the joke." My attempt at sarcasm. I do have friends from the USA who aren't so arrogant that they're not concerned about their image abroad. Not all democrats either.