2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=Dccpa;425319]So were the Democrats arrogantly stupid in their interpretation of the rules or were they simply outsmarted by the Republicans?[/QUOTE]After passing the Budget Control Act of 2011, I am sure Democrats anticipated Republicans would make political hay if a budget was not also passed. Nevermind that the BCA is basically a budget. Democrats probably thought Republicans would introduce their own bills and then say look we have a budget, Dems don't.

What Democrats probably didn't anticipate is that Republicans would write a bill that nobody would ever vote for, and call it "Obama's budget". And then perpetuate a massive lie that there was a vote on Obama's budget. Nobody expected Republicans would actually stoop this low.

Dccpa, aren't you skeeved out by supporting a group that engages in such mass deception?

Silver Star, The New Yorker profiled Ryan in its August 6 edition, before he became a Vice Presidential candidate. The New Yorker, which is to the left of the New York Times, would dispute your characterization of Ryan. He's always been a Libertarian thinker as far as economic issues go. He makes Ayn Rand mandatory reading for his staff, and is a big admirer of Friedman, Hayek and Von Mises. The federal handouts he's gotten for his congressional district have been small, and since 2008 he's rejected earmarks entirely.

Prior to 2008, he did indeed "go along to get along". The result was that he became chairman of the House Budget Committee. If he hadn't voted the party line, in accordance with Bush's arm-twisting, he probably wouldn't have gotten there. But since 2008 he's been a thorn in the side of some Republican leaders and has been instrumental in shifting the House in the direction of the tea party.

I do not like the statements that Ryan has come out with though on Medicare recently and view them as deceptive. But the problem isn't what Ryan believes, the problem is the American public. They spend more than they make and expect their government to do the same. They expect handouts. The majority of the public wants to screw minorities, like the wealthy, pot smokers, and prostitutes and their customers. Gary Johnson would be by far my favorite candidate, if he had a snowball's chance in hell of winning. He combines what Ryan believes regarding economic policies with what you and I and most of the other people on this board believe about social policies. Before Romney picked Ryan, I was leaning towards voting for Johnson, for reasons I explained to you before. Now though I'll probably vote for Romney / Ryan.

My question for you, there are two ways that Libertarians can have more influence. The first way would be if we can elect people like Johnson on the Libertarian ticket. The chances of success are virtually "0". The second way is if we can infiltrate the Republican party, like Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Jeff Flake did in Congress and like Gary Johnson did in New Mexico. Why do you prefer the first way?

An interesting statistic I ran across today. During his time as governor of New Mexico, Johnson vetoed more legislation than all 49 other governors put together. I'd like to see that in a U.S. president. But it's not going to happen if people like Johnson run on third party tickets.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 425328]Silver Star, The New Yorker profiled Ryan in its August 6 edition, before he became a Vice Presidential candidate. The New Yorker, which is to the left of the New York Times, would dispute your characterization of Ryan. He's always been a Libertarian thinker as far as economic issues go. He makes Ayn Rand mandatory reading for his staff, and is a big admirer of Friedman, Hayek and Von Mises. The federal handouts he's gotten for his congressional district have been small, and since 2008 he's rejected earmarks entirely.

Prior to 2008, he did indeed "go along to get along". The result was that he became chairman of the House Budget Committee. If he hadn't voted the party line, in accordance with Bush's arm-twisting, he probably wouldn't have gotten there. But since 2008 he's been a thorn in the side of some Republican leaders and has been instrumental in shifting the House in the direction of the tea party.

I do not like the statements that Ryan has come out with though on Medicare recently and view them as deceptive. But the problem isn't what Ryan believes, the problem is the American public. They spend more than they make and expect their government to do the same. They expect handouts. The majority of the public wants to screw minorities, like the wealthy, pot smokers, and prostitutes and their customers. Gary Johnson would be by far my favorite candidate, if he had a snowball's chance in hell of winning. He combines what Ryan believes regarding economic policies with what you and I and most of the other people on this board believe about social policies. Before Romney picked Ryan, I was leaning towards voting for Johnson, for reasons I explained to you before. Now though I'll probably vote for Romney / Ryan.

My question for you, there are two ways that Libertarians can have more influence. The first way would be if we can elect people like Johnson on the Libertarian ticket. The chances of success are virtually "0". The second way is if we can infiltrate the Republican party, like Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Jeff Flake did in Congress and like Gary Johnson did in New Mexico. Why do you prefer the first way?

An interesting statistic I ran across today. During his time as governor of New Mexico, Johnson vetoed more legislation than all 49 other governors put together. I'd like to see that in a USA president. But it's not going to happen if people like Johnson run on third party tickets.[/QUOTE]Great points Tiny12.

I guess the best outcome would have been GJ winning the Republican nomination, but he was excluded by the big media in the debates and wasn't the best campaigner. I don't expect the American public to elect GJ (which sucks) but Paul Ryan is not even close to Libertarian. He voted to ban online poker (strike one) he voted for No Child left behind (strike 2) he voted for Medicare part D (a huge expansion of Govt with no way to pay for it) (strike 3) and his so called budget reform won't balance the budget for years to come. So I'm going to vote for the ticket I think will be best for America and closest to my views, Romney / Ryan are wrong on too many issues for me to give them my vote. I can understand completely why you want something other than BO, but I see Romney / Ryan as going back to the same thing as Bush, who couldn't balance the budget, and were social conservatives also who want to impose their moral fantasies upon the rest of us. Romney / Ryan? Wrong on way too many issues to be supported. I think the lions share of the Romney supporters are biting their teeth and just will take anything but Obama, even though there are better choices on the ballot. There are more anti Obama than pro Romney. Don't be fooled by all the Ryan hype, he is more neocon than Libertarian, oh yeah Ryan also supported extending the intrusive Patriot Act, and the latest defense bill that gives government new powers that surpass the constitution. Another kicker is Romney supported 100% and was proud of RomneyCare, which his is now running against. Oh yeah, Ryan also supported TARP too! (just like Romney)

[QUOTE=Esten;425327]Dccpa, aren't you skeeved out by supporting a group that engages in such mass deception?[/QUOTE]And Democrats don't participate in mass deception? Besides, what makes you think I support any group? I have stated multiple times that I dislike both parties. I supported Ron Paul, but the Republicans screwed him over in Iowa and he had to win Iowa to have any chance. My position is that Wall Street is more dangerous than Al Queda and that a monkey with a hat will do less damage to the economy than BO. MR knows where the bodies are buried on Wall Street and if he decides to do so, he can take out the Wall Street Mafia. Considering how Wall Street is contributing to his campgaign, they don't expect MR to go after them. But BO has proven he will protect Wall Street, so the 10% chance with MR is better than the. 0% chance with BO.

The vote is already decided in my state, so I probably won't vote. If I did vote, it would be for MR. While my philosophy is Libertarian, a vote for the Libertarian candidate helps BO. I believe Ron Paul recognized years ago that he would have to effect change from within a mainstream political party. The Republican convention will showcase whether Ron Paul has been successful. Edit, I just noticed Tiny posted something very similar. Great minds think alike.

Unless MR wins and turns the economy, the next election may see a third party president.

Ok, here it is.

" The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 44% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 43. Six percent (6%) prefer some other candidate, and six percent (6%) are undecided.

Today's update matches the president's lowest level of support since May. Yesterday was the lowest level of support for Romney since March. On a combined basis, today shows the lowest level of combined support for the two major party candidates since January 27. See daily tracking history.

Sometimes it is helpful to look at the numbers on a full-week basis rather than day-to-day basis. This eliminates some statistical noise and gives a broader perspective on the race. Doing so gives a sense of how little the race has changed over the past two months. In six of the past eight weeks, Romney has been ahead by one or two points. Once he had a larger lead, and once the candidates were tied." end of quote

What I find interesting is that Rasmussen, at this time in 2008, had Obama ahead by 5. Obama won by about 5. However, Obama should have won by 15% considering Obama outspent McCain 10:1 and the country went through a stock market crash and a liquidity crisis days or weeks prior to the election.

What people do not realize is that Obama is and always has been an election day disaster. Clinton regularly put a pitchfork up Obama ass in the final primaries of 2008. This year a convicted incarcerated felon beat Obama in the primaries.

My prediction is that Obama will be increasingly ostracized by the mainstream and as the election nears Obama will draw closer to his base. Look for Obama going trailer to trailer offering twinkies and oreo cookies.

[QUOTE=Dccpa; 425336]And Democrats don't participate in mass deception? Besides, what makes you think I support any group? I have stated multiple times that I dislike both parties. I supported Ron Paul, but the Republicans screwed him over in Iowa and he had to win Iowa to have any chance. My position is that Wall Street is more dangerous than Al Queda and that a monkey with a hat will do less damage to the economy than BO. MR knows where the bodies are buried on Wall Street and if he decides to do so, he can take out the Wall Street Mafia. Considering how Wall Street is contributing to his campgaign, they don't expect MR to go after them. But BO has proven he will protect Wall Street, so the 10% chance with MR is better than the. 0% chance with BO.

The vote is already decided in my state, so I probably won't vote. If I did vote, it would be for MR. While my philosophy is Libertarian, a vote for the Libertarian candidate helps BO. I believe Ron Paul recognized years ago that he would have to effect change from within a mainstream political party. The Republican convention will showcase whether Ron Paul has been successful. Edit, I just noticed Tiny posted something very similar. Great minds think alike.

Unless MR wins and turns the economy, the next election may see a third party president.[/QUOTE]DCCPA if you are Libertarian, then why not vote that way? It will hurt BO, who never had your vote in the 1st place. (Cuts down their percentages and sends a strong and clear message) Also, there are probably good Libertarian candidates down ballot that could use your vote. Gary Johnson is counting on the Ron Paul folks like you for your support, and remember this is all much bigger than Gary Johnson or Ron Paul, it is a movement and a set of principles and core values that America should revert back to. The only wasted vote is a vote not cast.

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 425348]Ok, here it is.

" The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 44% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 43. Six percent (6%) prefer some other candidate, and six percent (6%) are undecided.

Today's update matches the president's lowest level of support since May. Yesterday was the lowest level of support for Romney since March. On a combined basis, today shows the lowest level of combined support for the two major party candidates since January 27. See daily tracking history.

Sometimes it is helpful to look at the numbers on a full-week basis rather than day-to-day basis. This eliminates some statistical noise and gives a broader perspective on the race. Doing so gives a sense of how little the race has changed over the past two months. In six of the past eight weeks, Romney has been ahead by one or two points. Once he had a larger lead, and once the candidates were tied." end of quote.

What I find interesting is that Rasmussen, at this time in 2008, had Obama ahead by 5. Obama won by about 5. However, Obama should have won by 15% considering Obama outspent McCain 10:1 and the country went through a stock market crash and a liquidity crash days or weeks prior to the election.

What people do not realize is that Obama is and always has been an election day disaster. Clinton regularly put a pitchfork up Obama ass in the final primaries of 2008. This year a convicted incarcerated felon beat Obama in the primaries.

My prediction is that Obama will be increasingly ostracized by the mainstream and as the election nears Obama will draw closer to his base. Look for Obama going trailer to trailer offering twinkies and oreo cookies.[/QUOTE]The Oreo cookie strategy will work on my nephew, although he is Libertarian on many issues, he is addicted to food stamps and doesn't want his gravy train to end, so he is voting BO. I'm sure many others that are in a similar situation are going to vote Obama to keep the goodies they are getting now. ¨Those that rob Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.

Hate to bring up a sore a sore subject, but, where is biden? Probably squirming in a straight jacket with duct tape over his mouth. Obama has a tar baby and Obama may not be able to extradite himself from that tar baby. hillary probably does not want her reputation ruined by joining slime-ball Obama.

Anyway, Obama does not need biden to lose this election. Obama is a chicago slime-ball and Obama is the reason the Obama / Biden ticket is doomed.

BBC's Historical story about the U.S. in the late 1880's.
This is about Politics and Cops.

They were up front sort of.

They Cheated. This story is about an honest cop, an American citizen and corrupt Politicians.

Not You, that only want your truths to only make you Money..

They just LIED! then and Now!

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2006374/[/url]

As the Republicans Do.

Vote for dumb fucks like AKINS.
Rape, Rape in Certain times are Bad.

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69; 425371]BBC's Historical story about the USA in the late 1880's.

This is about Politics and Cops.

They were up front sort of.

They Cheated. This story is about an honest cop, an American citizen and corrupt Politicians.

Not You, that only want your truths to only make you Money.

They just LIED! Then and Now!

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2006374/[/url]

As the Republicans Do.

Vote for dumb fucks like AKINS.

Rape, Rape in Certain times are Bad.[/QUOTE]Hey WorldTravel,

So now your're going back to issues in the 1880's to support your hatred for today's conservatives?

And what does this have to do with the title of this thread "[i]2012 Elections in the USA[/i]"?

But let's look at the good side, at least you're not quoting some fantasy TV drama to make your points.

Thanks,

Jackson

Jackson:

You can't see it. That's too bad.

It is the same Old shit as today.

Greed and corruption.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 425376]Hey WorldTravel,

So now your're going back to issues in the 1880's to support your hatred for today's conservatives?

And what does this have to do with the title of this thread "[i]2012 Elections in the USA[/i]"?

But let's look at the good side, at least you're not quoting some fantasy TV drama to make your points.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WorldTravel69; 425377]Jackson:

You can't see it. That's too bad.

It is the same Old shit as today.

Greed and corruption.[/QUOTE]WT, you write a great travel report, but your are missing the most important thing about this election. Both sides are corrupt and they are controlled by the bankers.

BTW. USD took a hit today and broke below a support level. The way the grains, oil, gold and silver are acting, this could be the start of a another downward leg in the dollar.

[QUOTE=Dccpa; 425383]WT, you write a great travel report, but your are missing the most important thing about this election. Both sides are corrupt and they are controlled by the bankers.

BTW. USD took a hit today and broke below a support level. The way the grains, oil, gold and silver are acting, this could be the start of a another downward leg in the dollar.[/QUOTE]If the D'the are R's are both corrupt, why reward them with our votes? (or by not voting) instead punish them by voting Libertarian, and watch how fast things will change for the better.

I really do not know what he meant to say. My guess, he was articulating about the sanctity of life. Instead of further explanation and discussion, he succumb to the survival of his political life. He apologizes.

We are taught by the highest order,"to love our enemies as ourselves", and "to turn the other cheek","to forgive is to be divine". Right, such stupid and impossible aspirations! On occasions, we read about instances of women deciding to continue pregnacies of rape. In cases like these, the perpetrator of rape could be someone that is known to the victim. Where rapes occured most randomly and violently is during wars and conquests. It is very inspiring to read stories about women who were able to love and raise their babies of rape in these instances. Sometimes, they had a choice to continue the pregnacy, most times, they probably did not. I read such a story based on the ethnic cleasing war in Bosnia. Personally, I have a blond friend from Romania who I teased about the origin of his forefathers.

As far as I know, the US is the leading advocate of disabled people in terms of laws and benefits. It is amazing to me to see how some parents can take up the challenge of their burden of having disabled children. Abortion is a convenient solution to people who cannot cope with such a inconvenience. On a transatlanctic cruise, I saw a Brazilian family with a Down's Syndrome son. He was very happy and normal among his loving brothers and parents. I learned alot about patience and kindness just observing the interaction among them.

So with all this furor among the idealogues, they are forgetting just one thing. As Rodney King, like everyone of us, an imperfect man said,"why can't we just get along". And perhaps, getting a few things done at the same time.

[QUOTE=Silver Star;425385]If the D'the are R's are both corrupt, why reward them with our votes? (or by not voting) instead punish them by voting Libertarian, and watch how fast things will change for the better.[/QUOTE]SS, My state will vote for MR whether or not I vote. If I was in a swing state, I would vote Libertarian if either major party candidate had a large lead or if the Libertarian candidate had a chance. But this election is close and there is a huge difference between the capabilities of BO & MR. Although I have doubts that he will do the right thing, at least MR has the capability of fixing things. BO has no clue or desire on how to fix things.

My personal opinion is that things are too far down the road to be fixed. But a MR Presidency would buy me more time to get all my assets properly positioned. And with MR, I would only have to worry about my 401k being stolen through inflation and not through outright confiscation of assets.