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If any of you Gentlemen (or others) met Maria Molinari at Jackson's party, and would like to see some of her paintings or read 2 of the stories she has translated, you can see them at
http://www.online-arts.net/portfolio/molinari
I'm personally impressed with her work...
I should just add to my post that I met over 40 mongers in my month long stay in BA and personally enjoyed the company of almost everyone.
1 % - the WEIRDOS ( who I didn't enjoy)
IMHO, A few mongers - very few, maybe one or two - less than 2% - were out and out freaks, Jeffrey Dalhmer type guys that can't relate to the other sex and even the same sex. hey. that's to be expected in sex tourism, right? It's going to attract the weirdo fringe and it did.
70% - the DOUBLE (401 K) LIFERS
Most (about 70%) were "double life" guys, trying best to enjoy their "normal" first life and also their "double monger life", it's not the type of (lie) life I personally would like to lead but (Who am I do judge?) these guys were great and I enjoyed hanging out with them. Most were over 40, so not exactly likely to pick up a "Playtum" type girl in a bar in their own town but that's the girl's problem, since they were great guys, maybe not Brad Pitt material physically but charming and interesting and ANYONE (even Anna Nicole Smith's deceased 92 year old hustand) can score in BA, as the only criteria is if you have 100-400 pesos for the services.
19% - SINGLE LIFE (I am what I am, go fuck yourself if you are against me having sex for money, you hypocritical Victorian swine who would love to be me) Mongers
About 19 % were single life guys and could care a fuck about whether people knew they were mongers, They had a rich life outside mongering and just were in it for the adventure and experience. Some of these guys were young, attractive and single and could get a girl at the local bar but some were over the age of easy amateur sex, some worked in the corporate world and had to be cool with me and other mongers but seemed to be quite secure with their lives - maybe they were investors in their companies, owners, had an unique skill, so were not afraid of losing their job because of a sex scandal. Who knows. Maybe they were even married but had an understanding with their wives (open, swinger type relationship). Again who knows but they were totally cool about what they were doing, no guilt ridden in the least, not afraid of what other people would think of them, very grounded dudes.
Anyway, 99% of you guys -double life and single life guys, doesn't matter - are my brothers as far as I'm concerned and it was a privilage go spend some time with you in the great city of Buenos Aires, which aside from the mongering side, is a world class city, which I would return to even if Mayor Rudy Giuiiani was mayor of Buennos Aires (highly unlikely) and banned sex clubs and streetwalkers, cigarrettes smoking in bars, subway turnstile jumping, public dringing and urination - all in the name of "quality life "and (in reality) his supporters in the outer boroughts (suburbs) and personal future (failed) senatorial (even presidential?) blind political ambitions .
PS
Rudy now has (Giuliani Associates) a private security company with the NYC ex police and fire chief and allegedly got a 3. 5 milliion dollar contract to clean up Mexico City. The check has been cashed but good luck with Rudy's phony consultant biz. Eventually someone will call him on his game.
jamesbond69,
Some comments:
1) You can occasionally make a good deal selling antiques or wine, but not as a sustainable activity. Remember that shipping antiques and paying custom taxes in destination bite a big part of the profits. Also, I have very close friends who studied Foreign Trade in Buenos Aires and they could barely make a living from the activity.
2) If you want to know about boliches that cater to locals, you can search my reports about the boliches in Flores and elsewhere. My experience as a 13+ years monger in BA is that you seldom find "la creme de la creme" in places for locals, but you find many average girls in these places as you do in the tourist circuit. I used to go to Downtown and Recoleta from time to time, but not regularly.
3) Argentinians like European foreigners and welcome (but not necessary like) Americans. However, Argentinians are not glad to host poorer immigrants from Bolivia and Paraguay, for instance. I read a report from Clarin last week that mentioned that the anger from Argentinians to Americans grew 37% last year.
Many of the mongers stick around Recoleta (a tourist, upper-class environment), where people are attentive and graceful with visitors. But if you go only 10-15 km from there you will see the difference. For instance, remember a posting from a bunch of mongers who went to Barrio Coreano. They felt the sneers in their necks.
4) I don't think that the Argentine upper class people don't speak English. Those who went to elite schools had extensive English language training.
Andres
Andres,
I really enjoy reading your posts, since you are Agentine and know the situation better than anyone in the forum but I respectively have to take issue with you one this post.
Some comments:
>1) You can occasionally make a good deal selling antiques or wine, but not as a sustainable activity. Remember that shipping antiques and paying custom taxes in destination bite a big part of the profits. Also, I have very close friends who studied Foreign Trade in Buenos Aires and they could barely make a living from the activity.
Argentine has no export industry, and this is in part of the root of the problem. Of course with 1-1 pesos for dollars everything was overprice, particularly with the rising value of the dollar and the competition after the Brazilian devaluation. For example Quilana is a fine beer but where except in Argentina is it sold, while the US market has beers from Brazil, Mexico, Europe (very expensive), Kirin (Japan), Fosters (Austraila) etc. The export industry in Argentina was the fifth lowest in the world, just above Haiti, Burunda and other third world country. And this is a country that in the 1920's was richer than Canada and producers enough food to feed a country with 280 million as the USA. Yet children are starving in Tuchaman. Argentina is a mismanaged enigma.
Buenos Aires is now a fire sale economy and items such as antiques can be had for far less than they are sold on EBAY. All you have to do is check out for example how much a Gaucho sword or NAZI silverware was sold on Ebay, then go to San Telmo and see how much it cost. I did. Of course there are shipping and duty costs but these items are selling in the shops and open air market for a fraction of what they going in an Ebay auction.
>2) If you want to know about boliches that cater to locals, you can search my reports about the boliches in Flores and elsewhere. My experience as a 13+ years monger in BA is that you seldom find "la creme de la creme" in places for locals, but you find many average girls in these places as you do in the tourist circuit. I used to go to Downtown and Recoleta from time to time, but not regularly.
One night I went out with Jose, an Argentine monger, to only local places. It's true that in general the best chicas go to Recoleta, as that's where the money is but there were some decent girls in these dives. And Johnguapo's experience with 40 pesos Clarin girls was very positive. Everyone in Argentine, from the average guy to the riches, has sex for sale and the quality can be the same as at the recoleta places but you have to work at it, that's for sure. I like the "girl next door" chica, and not all these girls have worked their way into the tourist places.
>3) Argentinians like European foreigners and welcome (but not necessary like) Americans. However, Argentinians are not glad to host poorer immigrants from Bolivia and Paraguay, for instance. I read a report from Clarin last week that mentioned that the anger from Argentinians to Americans grew 37% last year.
Like poor illegal Mexicans in Texas, Argentines certainly don't like the immigrants from Boliivia and Paraguay or even the internal immigrants to BA from the North, like Tuchaman. And they associate the American foreign and economic policy with the evil superpower, as everywhere on earth. And the men don't like the America sex tourists, because they fuck with the prices but in general the population likes Americans and looks at them differently individual, just as in American at the height of the cold war Americans didn't have problems with Russians individual but with the communist system. As for the Chicas they all knew what a girl cost in the states and what they are asking, so see a good customer in the gringo, particularly if they don't know a word of Spanish.
>Many of the mongers stick around Recoleta (a tourist, upper-class environment), where people are attentive and graceful with visitors. But if you go only 10-15 km from there you will see the difference. For instance, remember a posting from a bunch of mongers who went to Barrio Coreano. They felt the sneers in their necks.
>4) I don't think that the Argentine upper class people don't speak English. Those who went to elite schools had extensive English language training.
The real upper class speak English yes, just as in America. I'm middle class but went to Yale University, an upper class university and everyone spoke at least one foreign language. The first time I was in Argentina I stayed as a guest of the Tounquist family, who were like Rockerfellers and owned a bank and met only polo players, etc, all of whom went to the American Lincoln School or the even more post British St. George School and some spoke English better then me.
But when you go down a notch in society, to the upper middle or middle class they may have studied English but they don't have much opportunity to practice. And when you get into the clubs....the middle and lower class...well only one chica spoke any English on a conversational level.
jamesbond69.
After reading your critique of Argentina, I would add a category to your list of weirdos, double lifers, single lifers, and Nibu (one-of-a-kind) mongers: CAPY's ....condescending arrogant prick Yalies.
Like you I speak passable Spanish and have been to some of the outer barrios such as Flores, but unlike you I do not presume to judge as inferior beings those who do not speak Spanish or who do not wish to venture beyond the confines of Recoleta.
As for the nature of the posts here, uh, have you read the name of this forum? At the risk of stating the obvious....wouldn't a post about the looks and services provided by chicas from different boliches be more appropriate on a WORLD SEX GUIDE forum than, say, a post about the price of Nazi memorabilia?
I enjoy reading posts about a variety of things, including antiques. I also enjoy reading about guys sexual experiences, whether in Belgrano or Recoleta.
What I do not enjoy are posts that place mongers in neat little pigeon holes and presume to lecture them about how they choose to live their lives while in BA.....especially from one who has spent exactly one month in BA residing in the heart of Recoleta....
I am glad you had a good time in myfavorite city on earth but, jeez, look again at the tone of your post.....
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ezy
[i]jamesbond69.
>After reading your critique of Argentina, I would add a category to your list of weirdos, double lifers, single lifers, and Nibu (one-of-a-kind) mongers: CAPY's ....condescending arrogant prick Yalies.
I have never attacked anyone personally on this list as you have just done and am reluctant to start now. By attacking someone you do create a situation where one has to defend himself, although I will not attack you as part of my defense and wish you had sent me private email to respond. That out of the way, here is my response. ( know this post is boring, worthless to the point that it should be deleted but what can I do?)
>Like you I speak passable Spanish and have been to some of the outer barrios >such as Flores, but unlike you I do not presume to judge as inferior beings those who do not speak Spanish or who do not wish to venture beyond the confines of Recoleta.
I think it's great that you speak passable Spanish and go to the outer barrios. I don't know where you got the idea that I believe someone is inferior that doesn't speak Spanish or does not go beyond Recoleta. That's ridiculous. I merely state that the forum is:
1. about information and a complete picture of the monger scene in BA, and i find interesting but lacking all aspects, including outside Recoleta
2. That a knowledge of Spanish (or even better, being a native) certainly can enhance the fact finding mission of the monger and also the sexual one. I may be wrong about the latter part but that's my opinion. I'm sure you don't deliberate not speak Spanish in Argentina and studied it, so why critic me for bring this up?
>As for the nature of the posts here, uh, have you read the name of this forum? At the risk of stating the obvious....wouldn't a post about the looks and services provided by chicas from different boliches be more appropriate on a WORLD SEX GUIDE forum than, say, a post about the price of Nazi memorabilia?
I post all the time about chicas and different places but also many of us are thinking of moving to BA and supporting ourselves while there or paying for our trip somehow, so I merely suggested a few ideas. There was a prior post (an informative one IMHO) about buying jewelry in BA and selling them in the states at a profit but you didn't post against this, so I guess your post is concerned about the nature of the antiques - Nazi memorabilia. I mention this type of item for sale only since it is rare and available in Argentina more than other places, not because I am in anyway a Nazi. In fact if you know anything about my background I'm about as anti-Nazi as possible but don't see anything wrong about collecting things, unless it supports causes I am opposed to, and I doubt the money from the memorabilia goes to actual Nazi or even Nazi supporters. It's simply collectibles, like the Gaucho antique I also mentioned, that I doubt are sold by actual gauchos.
>I enjoy reading posts about a variety of things, including antiques. I also enjoy reading about guys sexual experiences, whether in Belgrano or Recoleta.
So do I and post about my experiences, in Recoleta, Belgrano and in other places. Where do you get the idea I don't welcome hearing from the mainstream places? I only point out that there are other places I would like to hear about as well.
>What I do not enjoy are posts that place mongers in neat little pigeon holes and presume to lecture them about how they choose to live their lives while in BA.....especially from one who has spent exactly one month in BA residing in the heart of Recoleta....
I didn't lecture anyone, so why are you lecturing me? I may bring up some categories and perhaps I am wrong or right, since someone posted some negative things about Nibu, and since I've met him and enjoy his posts, I was only trying to explain where I consider him in the scheme of mongering. Sorry if I hit some of your wrong buttons.
>I am glad you had a good time in myfavorite city on earth but, jeez, look again at the tone of your post.....
Look at the tone of your post. You critc me personally for:
1. Where I went to school, something I mentioned in response to a post about the Argentine upper classes.
2. Imply indirectly that I am somehow a supporter of Nazi?
Except for this post most of your posting contains interesting information. I rather hear more about your experience in Flores and what type of chicas you met there than a personal attack, wouldn't you?
jamesbond69:
1) Argentina has export industry: Oil, seamless pipes, sunflawer oil (1st producer in the World), lemons (1st supplier to Coca Cola), etc.
I agree that Argentina could have a much bigger export sector, but some realities hinder this endeavor:
- The US subsidizes the agricultural-livestock production of farmers, specially in the Midwest, and Europeans do the same. Hence, it is very difficult to export agricultural commodities.
- Argentina belongs to the Mercosur trading block, and Brazil is the main commercial partner. As such, Brazil exerts good and bad influences. Good because it buys 40% of Argentine exports, but bad because industrial manufacturing companies choose a single location for their offices and facilities in the Mercosur area, and this location is Sao Paulo. This means that companies like Renault, GM, Fiat, etc, are gearing towards closing the facilities in Argentina and open or adapt the Brazilian ones for the whole Mercosur market.
- There are some satellite exports that Argentina could pursue, but these are not significant, like wines. Many Argentine friends living in Boston try to sell Argentine wines in New England, only to find out that volumes traded are too low to be considered a "driving export" industry.
2) Quilmes (I guess you refer to that beer) has been considered by many visitors as very diluted, thus not suitable for some markets (for instance, Brazil). After living a couple of years in Boston, I think that trying to sell Argentine beer in Boston is like trying to sell American beef in Buenos Aires: Too high local quality to be able to compete. Brazilian beers (Brahma, Antarctica, etc) don't sell in America either because of the same reason.
3) Children were starving in Tucuman in 1920 too. It just got current media attention. Pagina 12 newspaper showed 2 weeks ago a front page with pictures of Tucuman children starving in 2002 and in 1980, and Argentina didn't enter the aftermath by 1980.
4) Buying or selling nazi memorabilia is a crime in Argentine laws, called "Apologia del Delito" ("Cult of crime" could be a good translation). Nobody can make sustainable sales volumes without being caught.
Andres
Andres,
You are as informative as ever in your response but I did read in several different journals and papers that in the last years of the one to one the export industry in Argentina was the fifth lowest in the world, just above Haiti, Burundi and two other countries that I can't recall. Is this true?
Also, on another subject, more on target for the WSF: the brothel scene in BA, which I have some questions on. On this list I've read only of two brothels by address - the French Street and Larrea Street Brothel, and visited both of them. You can find the exact address in this forum with the forum search function.
I really liked Larrea - nice rooms, assortment of chicas, reasonable prices amusing madame - and French Street is OK but not as good (will post late in detail about my experiences in both brothels) but there must be better places. I didn't have time to explore this part of the sex scene in BA, focusing more on the escort and club scene but I imagine it must be vast and varied, probably far more so than even the clubs.
I'm looking for a brothel that fits this description. Perhaps you or someone else in this forum knows of one and can provide the address and some comments.
1. Open day and most (all) of the night
2. Upscale facility, possibly with some heath club facilities like a sauna and/or swimming pool, along the lines of the termos in Rio or the Z club, described on the San Salvador site has having a full size swimming pools full of nude chicas.
3. Great assortment of chicas (define this as you will but I define it as Black level) but are available to mingle and have drinks with prior to making a selection (like in a club). The two brothels I visited has the line-up, which I don't like, and only eight chicas max. I'm looking for a brothel with a minimun of 20 to chose from.
4. Option to take out to your hotel, for an exit fee (this option is not a deal breaker but it would be great if possible.)
Does something like this exist in BA? It must but I couldn't find it.
PS
I've re-read my previous posts and I admit they are a bit cranky and even provocative in tone. Mark this down to suffering post BA withdrawal pains and also a natural reaction to some of the personal attacks that have appeared on the list lately. I will try to be a bit more on target factual in the future. I really love this forum and the guys I've met in BA. Everyone who posts determines to some extent the overall direction of the list. Some mongers use it as a personal diary, some a rating service, some exchange information or query...some provide historical and politial content to the experience....all of this is good and I have to admit I have my agenda also....I want to find out EVERYTHING about the monger scene in BA and also, since I plan to live down there, how to support my mongering. That's it, nothing more.
Hey,
I just checked out Black's Website
http://www.blackbuenosaires.com
It's quite interesting (intentionally deceiving),when you've been there and know what the place is really all about stating: "the most friendly atmosphere and more than good company."
Well who can argue with the good company part, right?
Does anyone have any URL's for other clubs and/or Boliche in BA? I'm curious to see how they present themselves.
Just a quick note to second what James Bond said about Delores. She is very intelligent with a great sense of humor. She also helped me in negotiating the services for a girl from Shampoo. Delores also works there. Delores is for those interested in an intelligent, attractive, mature woman with a great sense of humor.
jamesbond69:
1) Top Secret club (Artigas St and JB Justo Av) has a website with pictures. It used to be a good club, but not nowadays (at least from 2000 on). I guess I saw the URL at Rubro 59 of Clasificados section of www.clarin.com, at www.ambitoweb.com or at www.buscasexo.com.ar, but I don't remember exactly.
2) Although the Argentine trade balance was negative from 1993 to 2001, the exports amounted U$S 15-20B and imports U$S 20-25B. I guess that these exports were bigger than those of most African countries, so being the fifth worst is hard to imagine.
3) 7 years ago, there was a dozen of places as those you are looking for, but not anymore. Since police busted several "saunas" in 1996, saunas owners kept away from investing in nice facilities. Also, the crisis that started in 1998 decreased the number of patrons for such places.
Currently, there are some places that fit partially your description:
- Yamila (Avellaneda): 20+ girls (many really beautiful) and take out option, but not upscale facilities neither open on day.
- La Nuit (Flores): 30+ girls and take out option, but girls not very pretty, not upscale facilities neither open on day.
- Uruguay St 188 (Downtown): open on day, but not upscale facilities, few girls (hit or miss) and perhaps no take out option. You have to ring the bell and a man may search for weapons before coming in.
There was a place 3 years ago that fitted your description (pool included) in Venezuela St and Boedo Av (Boedo Quarter), called Aloha. It may have reopened. There was also another called Partenon in the same block, and perhaps it reopened too.
Buenos Aires used to be a city of astoundingly expensive real estate prices, so no place with big pools could have afforded the high rental prices. That's why Aloha and Partenon were located away from downtown.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Said it before and I'll say it again. We can all agree to disagree with one another. Not everyone is going to agree with one another. It still amazes me that this board is as civil as it is. Says something about the class act guys that go down to Buenos Aires. I've been a part of private and public boards for almost 5 years now and this section is among the best as far as flame wars and the like.
Most of what these guys is saying about Black's is true but I still think those of you that have never been there HAVE to go there just to check it out. Have your one drink and watch the action if nothing else. But make NO mistake. The girls there definitely are more expensive. Especially if you speak zero spanish.
However, many good reputable guys will tell you that there is a fun time to be had there. Especially guys that go to Buenos Aires over and over and over. They start to recognize your face and treat you different than the average client that goes in there. I'm not sure of the 'handles' of all you guys I met but some of you can attest to the fact that Black's is a good time. I went there with two dudes one night and after walking in I don't remember seeing them again. Some girl that recognized me from a previous trip came up to me and I started talking to her.
Also, guys like SuperJeff (who also goes down to BA frequently) owned the place! He had his digital camera. Was taking pictures of the waitresses, the dancers, the girls. I was surprised! Even the waitresses were asking to be in the photos! He brought a big CD case and was handing CD's to the DJ to play. He was dancing with the girls on the dance floor. Remember, life is what you make of it. So is almost everything else in life. If you're determined that you're not going to have fun at places like Black's then you won't.
I think Jackson and several others hate Black's and that is fine but trust me. There is fun to be had there. Everyone's taste is different. So if one guy is raving about some club that he loved. Keep in mind you mind find it a dump with all trashy girls that you wouuldn't sleep with if they paid you. Everything is relative in life.
The countdown begins. T-minus 8 days and counting and I'm back in BA. Life is good.
jamesbond,
hello my friend. Suffering from post BA depression. Welcome to the club. Enjoyed your posts and keep on posting about alternatives ways of making a living in BA.
You wrote that apparment is much cheaper than the hotels. Iam curious. How much cheaper. What about the standard of these appartments? Better, the same or worse?
Your not entirely right about the argentine export. The export was pretty weak and for most of the 1990s they had a negative trade balance (i.e. imports bigger than exports). But, infact the argentine export wasn't that much worse than the U.S export at the time. Nowdays the argentine export sector (9-10 percent of the GNP) is actually about the same size as the U.S (10-11 percen of the GNP). The argentine problems has other roots. Losy monetary policy and hyper inflation combined with a recession and non-adjusted fiscal policy (high goverment expenditures during the recession that made the deficit grow).
Schampoo also has a website. www.newshampoo.com.ar
BA_ROBERT
Guys, we all have our idiosyncratic views on life and politics et al.
Remember what unites us in this forum..., our love of women !!!
And our conviction that great sex is the main reason to live and enjoy life (and then each of us with our personal tastes and our little preferences, be they good food, wine, travels, etc.)
Man is sexually poligamous and though he may have a great girl next to him who loves him, and so forth, he will still lust after the other women around him. Thatīs the truth. Unfortunately we live in societies based on repression of life energies (libido).
In any case, here we go, another day in BA, with new adventures.
Today went better than yesterday. Did not need to run around BA in search of chicas who are simply not there. Called Dina from Platynum (aka Perla from www.altosex.com). Agreed on Peso 150 an hour, anal and massage included.
Got to the apartment she rents and she was there !!!
Great bod. Really !!! (ex dance student). Very friendly and chatty, funny, cultivated, very tanned (has a Russian and Turkish mix in her). Very good sex. Quick massage prior. Covered BJ though. Never got to the anal part, as I could not hold it that long (though we were at it for quite a while reviewing the Kama Sutra in depth.) You can easily see that she takes good care of herself in all ways.
Age? Approx 26 I would say.
Stayed for nearly two hours, and she only wanted me to pay for one hour. But I gave her an extra Peso 100.
Seriously thinking of repeating.
To quote The Saint, "Life is good".
By the way, if anyone wants to hook up to pay visits to some clubs (Madaho et al., or the Cielo brothel), drop me a line at b69pat@hotmail.com. I leave on Sunday and still have not explored these places.
Hey Guys!
Has anyone of your tried AGOSTINA from Platynum??