ATM's

I read at the top of my last statement that on November 5th HSBC is raising its 1% to 3% unless you have a higher level account, then it stays the same at practically nil.

[QUOTE=Easy Go]That's odd. I recently used my Citibank card at BA Citibank ATMs and didn't get charged any fees. I got 3.15 on Oct. 1 with no fee.

Do you have a USA Citibank account? Were you using the ATMs in the Citibank branches? Did you talk to Citibank customer service about it in your home country? 3% and a fee is what Citibank charges for a non-Citibank ATM (which I agree is a rip so I only use my Citibank card at Citibank ATMs)

Double-check before getting an HSBC card as I've read a few things that say they are increasing the fee to 3%.

[url]http://www.travelfinances.com/blog/index.php/2007/07/09/hsbc-to-increase-foreign-transaction-fees/[/url]

[url]http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange[/url][/QUOTE]Damn. I opened and loaded an account with HSBC two weeks ago for their non fee policy.

Nothing is for free any more.

El Greco

I always use Banco Frances when possible. No fees, no limits and a slightly better excahange rate the in other banks. It also seems that ATM's in other banks never have any cash in them. The exception to this is ATM's (Banco Frances) in malls, or not in a bank.

Before my first trip to BA, I have checked with all 3 of my banks. Citi, Bank of America, and HSBC all charge 3% fees for foreign exchange. There may or may not be separate ATM fees, but the 3% was my concern and it's now verified. I forgot to inquire about purchases with the card, but I assume it's the same.

Purchasing with a Visa debit card this is what I'm charged - this case petrol -

YPF AUTOP BS-LP SUR PROV 09/28YPF AUTOP AR Peso 76.00 X 0.3177632 (EXCHG RTE) + 0.72 (EXCHG RTE ADJ)

And it's the same for any purchase I make.

Hiya,

Using a USA Wells Fargo ATM Visa Card, with Visa Plus, and Cirrus, and Link, my cash withdrawal limit per transaction from any Argentinian bank ATM / Cajero, is Max: $320 AR. Very frustrating indeed!

When lucky I can withdraw the above amount 3 consecutive times per my ATM card insert, while being charged 3 times $5 US.

So far no other way of cash withdrawal. Any suggestions, input is welcomed.

All the Best,

Bodhi

[QUOTE=DrakeCapital]Before my first trip to BA, I have checked with all 3 of my banks. Citi, Bank of America, and HSBC all charge 3% fees for foreign exchange. There may or may not be separate ATM fees, but the 3% was my concern and it's now verified. I forgot to inquire about purchases with the card, but I assume it's the same.[/QUOTE]It's my understanding that if you have a Citi check card (I. E. a debit card I think) AND use one of their ATM machines ([url]https://web.da-us.citibank.com/cgi-bin/citifi/scripts/prod_and_service/prod_serv_detail.jsp?BS_Id=WorldATM&BV_UseBVCookie=yes[/url])
there is no foreign currency transaction fee.

For a credit card with no foreign currency transaction fee look into Capital One. I researched them a while back and if I recall correctly they do not impose the foreign currency transaction fee.

If you look into Capital One please let us know as I am not certain of my recollection, and, of course, they may have changed their mind.

Bob

I was going to post this link to the flyerguide wiki, but I noticed Easy Go has already done so. It seems to confirm that Capital One does not have any fees associated with their cards.

It might be worth getting an account if you have time prior to any extended trips to BA.

Tyler.

[QUOTE=Easy Go]That's odd. I recently used my Citibank card at BA Citibank ATMs and didn't get charged any fees. I got 3.15 on Oct. 1 with no fee.

Do you have a USA Citibank account? Were you using the ATMs in the Citibank branches? Did you talk to Citibank customer service about it in your home country? 3% and a fee is what Citibank charges for a non-Citibank ATM (which I agree is a rip so I only use my Citibank card at Citibank ATMs)

Double-check before getting an HSBC card as I've read a few things that say they are increasing the fee to 3%.

[url]http://www.travelfinances.com/blog/index.php/2007/07/09/hsbc-to-increase-foreign-transaction-fees/[/url]

[url]http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange[/url][/QUOTE]

Called Citibank today. The rep told me that they charge 3% whenever their debit cards are used at ATMs in Argentina. The Citibank ATMs in Argentina are not part of the same United States network, therefore the 3% fee still applies.

Unfortunately the greenback seems to be the currency of choice for the best rate returns.

[QUOTE=Hyestud]Called Citibank today. The rep told me that they charge 3% whenever their debit cards are used at ATMs in Argentina. The Citibank ATMs in Argentina are not part of the same United States network, therefore the 3% fee still applies.

Unfortunately the greenback seems to be the currency of choice for the best rate returns.[/QUOTE]If this is true it really SUCKS! Via Citi web pages you can find ATM locations in Buenos Aires with no mention that they are not really Citi ATMs. Tomorrow I am going to try to send a written question via email so that I'll get a written response. I expect that they are pretty careful about what they put in writting. I hope that you just got an uninformed rep Hyestud.

Bob

I recently opened an account with them, back home, in order to avoid commissions on their ATM's worldwide as advertised and was told by them too. I am doing about 50 overseas transactions per year.

Pure bullshit. They do not charge commissions separately ok. But they incorporate a 3% in their rates and you are allowed 900 pesos in three withdrawals of 300p each per day here in BsAs.

Last Monday I was charged 4,42p to a euro whilst they gave me 4,55p for some cash that I also changed with them. A difference of 13cents per euro.

My good old Greek banks are charging a flat rate of 4,5 euros per transaction which comes to about 1% in Brasil where I can get 1.000 Reais (400 euros) daily. Not good for BsAs though for the 300p transactions.

Good old cash seems to be the solution now.

My two euro cents.

El Greco

After reading all the stuff that has been posted about ATMs and banks here I am perfectly ready to believe that much of the US mortgage mess is because over half of the people with mortgages don't know what kind they have, and what the conditions are.

This ATM fee business is getting serious. These thieving banks have created open season on international travelers. I have just posted some stuff about this for Paraguay. For the interest of all, from the top, there are 4 separate charges that can be made on an international transaction at this time:

1. Issuing Bank Foreign ATM Fee: Can be as high as $5 for Wells FEEgo. It is charged by the issuing bank for the use of an ATM machine at another bank. Since branches in another country would be at least a foreign subsidiary, this could mean a Citibank ATM in any other country is foreign to Citibank US, so assume it will be. This for a transaction that actually SAVES the bank money, because the ATM electronic transaction is much cheaper than a teller or check, and the machine costs them NOTHING, since it is someone else's.

This fee is relatively easy to avoid. Avoid the big banks, they are the worst thieves.

2. Issuing Bank International Transaction Fee: This is a percentage, of about 1-3% currently, charged against all international transactions, EVEN IN THEIR OWN BRANCHES. This one started with credit cards, and is now spreading to debit cards. They found a spot to rip off customers because most people will not change banks to avoid this. Many don't know it exists. The international transaction costs the bank nothing extra. All of the currency exchange is handled by VISA / MC.

This fee is relatively easy to avoid. Avoid the big banks again.

3. Currency Conversion Fee: This is 1% charged by VISA / MC to cover the cost and risk of currency conversion. This fee is not bad for the service performed. They have to handle the conversion and there is effort and a slight risk involved.

This fee cannot be avoided, except by bringing cash.

4. ATM Operator Fee: This fee is charged by the operator of the ATM to cover the cost of the transaction and the maintenance of the money in the machine. There actually is a service performed for this fee. The fee is normally viciously high though. $1 for this service is too much. How much do you pay for the cost of the coke machine when buying a coke from a machine?

At this time, I have not heard of this fee charged by a bank in Argentina for an international ATM card. It is also not charged in Uruguay, and until now, Paraguay. I suspect that there may be a technical reason why it is not charged. Apparently, some portion of the 1% Currency Conversion Fee is given to the ATM operator to cover their business.

In Paraguay, last month (October) they introduced a Gs25,000(currently US$5.35) ATM operator fee Per Transaction. However, it is still possible to withdraw up to the limit of the card (I don't know about high limit over $US500 cards) in a single transaction. I first saw it at Citibank, and checking a bunch of other banks it appears universal within just one month. These bastards are experts at behaving like a cartel. This is ridiculously high and outright robbery. I suspect this fee may be charged on International Cards only, because Paraguayans can't to afford this. This is bad, because we are a small costituency and can't fight back well.

This fee is going to be very hard to avoid. I haven't found a way to avoid it yet. As long as they permit the withdrawal of $500/ transaction, it amounts to an additional 1%. But I am afraid this may be only the beginning. If they reduce the transaction limit, as in Argentina, it will become prohibitive for continuous travelers.

In Summary: If one extracts $US100 with a Wells FEEgo card in Argentina currently, the cost is $5 + $3 + $1 for a total cost of $9(9%) If one extracts $US100 in Paraguay it is $5 + $3 + $1 + $5.35 for a total cost of $14.35(14.35%)

So the thing to do is READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS of your card from your bank. If they are charging the avoidable fees, go to another bank. That is the only way these banks MIGHT begin to get the message.

We need to look longer term to finding a way to avoid the ATM operator fee. I assume it will eventually come to Argentina. This essentially involves trying to find the equivalent of cash back on purchase kinds of services. Any ideas or knowledge here?

I checked what I paid recently: Bank card (EC - card) of Deutsche Bank - not a credit card, just used for ATM's and electronic payments -

The exchange rate was exactly the published interbank rate. Plus a flat fee of € 4,99 per transaction, and the limit is A$R 4000,-

It seems some Europeans give a better deal. El Greco, that should also work in your case.

Anyway, worth checking. And it seems that U. S. Banks lead the ripoff. Maybe going to the old continent might help.

2 centavos from.

El Alemán

In September I used my ATM issued by my credit union (Cirrus and Star linked) and the transaction fee was $.50 (although the newly imposed maximum withdraw limit of $100 US applied) I thought it was a fair deal since I typically withdrew $US 200 for a buck. For those of you who can get into a credit union, you might want to check this out.

For the past 3 years I've used a Citibank ATM card with a Mastercard logo here in Buenos Aires. There was a period of time, for about 3 or 4 months last year when Citibank US assessed a fee on ATM transactions at an Argentina Citibank ATM. That ended some time ago, up to a year ago, I don't remember exactly. They then restricted the fee to purchases only, so if you use the Citibank ATM with credit card logo for any purchase there's a fee assessed, 3%.

Citibank here also include ATMs marked "Banelco". I've been told that you're assessed a fee by Citibank if you use those machines marked "Banelco".

I use only the machines that look 100% like a US Citibank ATM with my US Citibank ATM card. No fees are assessed.

The Citibank at Alvear and Callao has 2 such machines, the first one was giving only 300 p / withdrawal and allowing multiple withdrawals. The second one allows me up to 3,000 peso withdrawal per day. No fees.

Go figure, this is Argentina.

Maybe the problem is the large banks?

I have a small business account with Trustmark, which is a small regional bank in the US south / south east. I have a MasterCard debit card. My limit is $800/ day and they charge a flat $1.50 fee for each withdrawal, no currency conversion fee, no ATM fees from the local ATM machines or anything. Just went back and looked at my last month's of transactions to make sure.

I looked at their website for personal accounts and it appears that they have the same policy on all accounts regarding ATMs. $1.50 per transaction on all non-Trustmark ATMs.

I have a personal account through Bank Of America with a Visa ATM card. My limit is $500/ day but of course because it is Visa, I am limited here to A$R 300 per transaction. I get charged a $5.00 fee per transaction, as well as a 1% currency conversion fee. I don't use this card very often! It would cost me $10 to get my limit.

I can pick up 500 euro a day without charge and 2500 euro's a month with a small charge with my CC, this limit can be extended to 5000 euro's or more

I asked Citibank, in writing, if I'd be charged a foreign currency transaction fee if I used my debit card to withdraw cash from their ATMs in Buenos Aires. The answer, also in writing, was no.

Bob

On the same day, during my stay I used my european HSBC credit card and another card to withdraw some pesos (guess why! In the banelco network.)

Résults:

I got 4.5331 $/€ with HSBC.

And. 4.2055 $/€ with another card (be*******t french bankinsurance compagnie 5.27€ commission / operation! It makes the chica quite 8% more expensive:(

Happilly I used this card only twice

I just found this link.

[url]http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange[/url]

Which I thought would be of interest to some. Wade through the verbage and there are some tables which contain useful information. Of course I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the data in the tables.

Bob

I reported earlier that Citibank charged no foreign currency transaction fee for an ATM withdrawal so long as you were using one of their ATMs. That was true until early February when they started to charge a 2% fee. So I switched to my credit union VISA debit card which is charging me 1%. I'll be looking into some way to avoid this charge altogether.

Bob

I made two withdrawals with my electric orange ATM card from ingdirect, an online bank. No fee charged at all.

[QUOTE=Knob and Tube]I made two withdrawals with my electric orange ATM card from ingdirect, an online bank. No fee charged at all.[/QUOTE]Do you base that on what was printed by the ATM or have you looked at your statement online? In my experience the slips of paper printed by the ATMs contain very little information. When I am charged a foreign currency transaction fee it NEVER shows up on the transaction record printed by the ATM. And it may not show up on my online statement until a day or so later.

Bob

I checked online. Both withdrawals were made from Banco Santander here in BA. First one was on Feb. 18 and second on 27th. Still no transaction fee. However using my Washington Mutual card, I got charged 1% and it showed up online the same day as the withdrawal.

Hi,

I just came across this bank (PNC - [url]www.pnc.com[/url]) that does not charge any ATM fees anywhere in the world if you open a checking account with them. Any ATM fees charged to your account will be reimbursed back on the spot. I haven't had a chance to open a checking account with them yet. If anyone has experience with this bank, please let us know.

Thanks

Today I tried to get $1200 pesos from two ATM's using my US issued HSBC MasterCard debit card and could not get more than $300 pesos out.

The banks were an HSBC and a Banco Galicia. I had not had this problem for the past year at the bank branches.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Does it look like the banks reviving this stupid practice?

[QUOTE=Ricardo]Today I tried to get $1200 pesos from two ATM's using my US issued HSBC MasterCard debit card and could not get more than $300 pesos out.

The banks were an HSBC and a Banco Galicia. I had not had this problem for the past year at the bank branches.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Does it look like the banks reviving this stupid practice?[/QUOTE]I have a First Republic Bank card. I can't get more than 300 Pesos in any one transaction but I can do multiple transactions, probably up to $500 total. Maybe your card works the same way.

[QUOTE=Ricardo]Today I tried to get $1200 pesos from two ATM's using my US issued HSBC MasterCard debit card and could not get more than $300 pesos out.

The banks were an HSBC and a Banco Galicia. I had not had this problem for the past year at the bank branches.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Does it look like the banks reviving this stupid practice?[/QUOTE]This is now standard practice by Banelco and other ATM providers. They force customers to do multiple withdrawls of 300 pesos each and, I assume, charge fees for each transaction. This is called ripping off tourists in Argentina. The only protection you have is to use bank cards from banks like E*trade that do not charge fees for ATM withdrawls in the entire world.

[QUOTE=Facundo]This is now standard practice by Banelco and other ATM providers. They force customers to do multiple withdrawls of 300 pesos each and, I assume, charge fees for each transaction. This is called ripping off tourists in Argentina. The only protection you have is to use bank cards from banks like E*trade that do not charge fees for ATM withdrawls in the entire world.[/QUOTE]I don't know for US people but for Euro Zone HSBC Visa Card Holders there is no charge for the withdrawal in the banelcos. But it is 300 pesos by 300pesos. It is only a little waste of time.

Just happened to me this morning - 300 peso limit. Usually I pull 1500 to 2000 once a week.

On the phone right now with HSBC in USA to try and figure this out. Don't know if it is Banelco issue or HSBC issue.

I will update.

When I got to Argentina in January, I was pissed I could only take out 300p with my commerce bankcard at a shot. I asked someone at HSBC why. She said that Visa was limiting the amount in all of Argentina to 300p. I then pulled out my Citibank card, which is a MasterCard, and I got 1500p out. Don't know why MasterCard bank cards does not work, it's possible that they are following visa? I will try Citibank, with a Citi card, see if I can get out 1500p, next time I need money.

Anyone know if its just HSBC or is it everywhere?

Girl in USA HSBC just told me that 3 or 4 other customers have called them on this (all from Argentina) She also pointed out that I may be allowed to do several transactions @ 300 each. She said another customer had done this today. I am off to the bank to find out.

She said they are looking into it. Probably a Banelco issue.

Their number is 800-462-1874. It is section for card security and she advised no other departments would have info on this.

[QUOTE=Thomaso276] Also pointed out that I may be allowed to do several transactions @ 300 each. She said another customer had done this today. I am off to the bank to find out.

She said they are looking into it. Probably a Banelco issue. [/QUOTE]If it's the same as visa, you can take out same amounts as before, but just have to keep taking out 300p until you hit 1500 or 2000p. It's a pain in the ass, but that what I do, with the commerce card. Commerce bank absorbs the ATMs fee, so I do not have to pay 5 transaction fees. Someone is making 5 or 6 trans.

Commerce bank pays the ATM fee for me, but someone is making 5 or 6 ATM fees, instead of one. It is a ripe off. But I don't pay it, my bank does. Someone is ripe off good money from this stupid rule.

Just back from HSBC. I made two more 300 peso pulls (total today of three) so it looks like I could go up to 1500 - 2000 with multiple pulls. I will look at my statement tommorrow to see if there are fees - there never were fees before for each pull. If so, anyone know who gets the fee - the branch here or the branch where the account is?

Meanwhile I urge everyone to call HSBC.

While at the bank a couple of American tourists were having the same problem and the bank rep said to make several pulls to get to their 1000 peso request. She played dumb when I asked her if this was an HSBC Arg. Rule or a Banelco (they run the ATM on contrract with the banks) rule and if it was Banelco why the bank agreed to it. Typical Argie response of I do not know.

I told the guy to call HSBC and complain.

It's all about the ATM / bank making money off each transaction. I don't know the fee they get, but I'd guess 50 cents to 1 dollar each. By getting you to take multiple transactions, they make more.

300 pesos isn't so bad. I've had ATMs in Indonesia that only give you about $50!

[QUOTE=Thomaso276]there never were fees before for each pull. If so, anyone know who gets the fee - the branch here or the branch where the account is?[/QUOTE]If you have an HSBC account, then you probably don't have a ATM fee. But if you don't, then I guess there is one. So all the non HSBC account holder, get hit with extra fees. I have not tried it out, but I could with my Citi card, on the hsbc bank. Don't like fees, so I us my commerce bank card instead of my Citi card, when using a third party bank.

Yeah, this has been a problem with Visa for more than a year now. Those of use who have had Master Card have not had a problem until recently. I have two different accounts, one with Visa and one with Master Card.

Up until the 1st of February, I have been able to pull 2500 pesos from my Master Card bank account per day, which is the daily limit on my account. I have lived here for a year and a half and had always been able to do so.

Around the first of February (I don't remember the exact date - it was around the time I moved and I thought it was a local limit or something) the machines started limiting me to 1000 pesos a pull, and Tuesday, the 1st of April, they began limiting to 300 pesos for Master Card, the same as Visa.

As in all cases, I can pull 300 pesos until I hit my bank's limit, but of course I will be charged for every transaction. Fortunately, my charge is "only" $1.50 per transaction with no conversion or any other fees, but still.

I don't think it's going to do any good to call your bank. It's not their fault - it's the fault of the banks down here who run the ATM system. Just another example of Argentina trying to do its best to make it a difficult place to live.

BTW - I spoke with my lead programmer here today and he told me he can pull out as much as 2000 pesos in a pull, but of course he is an Argentino with an Argentine bank account and may not be subject to this limitation. He is going to verify his ability to pull money out as well because it has been a few days since he tried to pull anything out.

Greetings everyone,

This is not a big mystery.

Approximately 2 years ago, a number of international ATM networks reduced the fixed fee they were paying to the Argentine ATM networks for each transaction by approximately 5%.

In response, the Argentine ATM networks reduced the amount that one could withdraw on any given transaction to $300 pesos, thus increasing the number of transactions and simultaneously their yield.

Thanks,

Jackson

"[i]In Argentina, the customer is a big pussy waiting to get fucked.[/i]"

Jackson - the difference is that it was ONLY for VISA in the past. The frustration (and surprise, indignant reaction, etc) is that it now, out of the blue, hit Master Card as well. Two years later.